Controversial i know regarding the daily tipping comps.

Mentioning Skinto stew is prophetic.I asked George last night if he could help in administering raising some funds to help Skinto during this difficult time.Seems a Go Fund me type scheme requires all sorts of info and probably impractical so I thought maybe a competition run over a month with an entry fee and 3 cash prizes for the top 3.I would put up £50 to the winner on top of any funds raised via fees.

Paul is extremely frail and fragile but stubborn and proud and refused help when I spoke to him,I suspect however he may be more amenable if we as a collective could do something to help as he was a stalwart of the competitions.What many do not know is that he already had a struggle before his illness,looking after Jean,his wife who had cancer,thankfully she has recovered but the worry is always there.

I just want to ask if someone would be kind enough to administer such a competition e.g keep scores,collect fees etc?

Regarding your own question,you have my backing but doubt the long odds on pickers of Skinto's ire will want to give up the pretence of superiority over better tipsters than they!!

Sorry to hearabout Skinto.Best wishes for him and his family. Not averse to the original idea but fear the Prem Div cockroaches like Soldier will veto the idea out of hand...

sparky just continue to focus on your strategy of cheating and picking selections that you know are non runners.

One of the good things skinto did on here was to spot it and call you out over it, and do you remember your reaction?! You started fawning all over him to take the heat off yourself …… laughable!!

The only issue i`ve ever had with the comps was ignorant pigs not respecting the settlers.

It might make it more hostile with cash involved though , settlers get it in the ear with the current rules and format, add in cash prizes and it would get hateful if they fall on what they think is a wrong ruling. Im fine with one league if that's where we go though.

i am in the bottom division and i used to pick odds on shots all the time i had some big winning % months but fairly low profits so it doesnt work picking odds ons

I have only been in the top division a couple of months and have already given a view along the lines that you almost need to flirt with relegation to win it. That said what makes a good tipster is it someone who throws in the occasional big winner, or someone who is a lot more consistent? If someone is that good there is nothing to stop them playing their way through the divisions. I quite like the divisional structure rather than some sort of big bun fight with only one winner.

It's fine as it is...
It's down to the more adventurous tipsters to get a better strike rate/strategy to remove the leechlike hold on the Premier Division that the long odds-on brigade currently have.
And, as I always say, it's the 12 month rolling table that is a true measure of a tipster, not the almost zero kudos of premier survival.

The division format does bring out the best napsters long term, rising through the divisions with consistency shows who the best are

I'm happy either way but I don't it should be pushed for one big league and I don't think the runners of it will want to change it in my opinion

I take it Cagliari has some news about the much-missed Skinto (well by me). Can he tell us a bit more without betraying confidences.

There's a couple of threads on Horse Racing salmon.

https://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31799415/ski...

https://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/31799415/
skinto-great-news-and-not-so-good?post_id=563082377#563082377#flvWelcomeHeader

Take anything the serial liar says with a very large pinch of salt.

Personally i don't give one iota what odds posters selections are, although i think those at the extreme (i.e. 1/20) are pointless. Nor do i care if i get relegated, i did several months back and returned the following month. I've won it before so ticked that box.

Bear in mind, any poster that is in the Premiership today had to get there through the divisions.

I don't think a single division is favourable, part of the fun is promotion and relegation, nor do i think the settlers would agree to it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it etc, but there is a possible solution.

Any odds against (11/10 and over) winner receives a 1 point bonus, this could leave many of the regular odds-on selections at the bottom fighting for relegation.

The actual 'bonus' is picking the big price in the first place. There isn't much difference between 11/10 and 10/11 and you can't be giving the same bonus for an 11/10 shot and a 20/1 shot. Non starter.

DD, maybe a non-starter, but merely a suggestion. As i mentioned, if it ain't broke etc

I appreciate there isn't much between 10/11 and 11/10, but there is between the long odds-on that are so prevalent in the Premiership and 11/10; 20/1 winners are a rarity in this division anyway.

If an inducement for odds against winners was in place, posters putting up constant daily odds-on would have to consider they could end up in the lower half/relegation area.

Odds on selection should be classed as a N`R.
Just a thought. 

I also payed in by paypal to the twitter handicap comp.
£45.
Think it was £40 for the comp & £5 for a charity.
I wouldn't mind giving a % of a division winning stake to the admin settler.
Up to her/him what they do with the cash.

Banning odds on would be quite an inducement, but very radical. Quite harsh on someone who puts up an odds against selection, and sees it backed down to odds on. That said I think if you want to reduce odds on selections it is preferable to the bonus idea. There are not that many 20/1 winners in any division, but there have been a few in the 10/1+ range, and in the main they have come from those who have filled the top places. You can get out of the lower divisions (maybe not as a monthly winner) tipping odds on, but you likely won't get close to winning the top division with that tactic.

There has been a similar discussion on another compy I am in,about odds on shots,mainly tbh for the most winners section where that approach can obviously be a big advantage.One of the points raised was the unfairness if anybody's selection was backed in from odds against or evens.

If there was ever a change to the rules would it perhaps be better to limit odds on to 10 selections per month say,or as GeorgeB's AW compy halve the returns.I think the divisional format is fine per se but obviously the odds on debate concerns the "Premiership" more than the other divisions,anyone genuinely trying to win it is likely at a disadvantage in terms of risking relegation.

Racing Post odds on sp not allowed ?

I don't participate now but always did my own thing not being one for shorties. However if people aren't allowed to do their own thing (ie whatever they choose to do) you'll get a massive loss of interest. I couldn't stand going for shorties every day just as the people who do would soon get fed up of trying to find big winners.

If its not fun "for the participant" its pointless. Also surely the less complicated for the hard working settlers the better (ie keep it straightforward so they don't get fed up!!)!

Sound idea that Bluenose. Sort the wheat from the chaff....

Is it me or am i missing something, what's the problem ? If tipsters go for odds on every day they can't win, so what ?

Exactly!

Not as straightforward celeric and eldar,were it so there would be no debate I suspect,you could also add the merit of multiple user names although they only fool themselves tbf?

I agree with you concerning multiple user names. If it were 1 league and no relegation, you would get the opposite to the current situation. All long shots, no care, and the winner would be the tipster that won like a fruit machine. Everybody in the premier has earned their right by promotion, this proposal would encourage careless tipping. Be very careful what changes are proposed.

Celeric has a point.

In fact, reversing his suggestion and making the Divisions smaller and having more Divisions (probably a no-go due to more work for the venerable Settlers)
would mean more fluid promotion and relegations and put an end to languishing in mid-table obscurity in the Prem for months to years.

e.g. sitting in 9th of 30 with a week to go is a cushion of mediocrity
..... but sitting in 9th of 16-20 will mean a week of work and authentic tipping.

.... nevertheless, I've seen countless 'idea' threads like these over the past 20+ years
and whether, for better or worse, they have only ever led to minimal organisational/rule changes.

Some have been valid, some have been bonkers, but, in reality, with the Naps Competition, there is very little to moan about.

As poppydog says,it all comes down to extra work for the settlers who already have an unenviable task.However,expanding on his suggestion of smaller divisions,would it be possible to have a "Super Division" of say 12 where the no odds on rule would apply solely to that division.With four up from premier and  four relegated,it would give an incentive to the more adventurous.Could initially be populated from the top six from the premier and div 1?

Good to get some debate, my main gripe is that any tipster who regularly put up the shortest priced horse of the day as someone on HR forum says that O'Hehir does would be ridiculed and no one would be interested in their tips.
Yet many people regularly put up the shortest priced horse of the day, what effort does that take, what pleasure does anyone derive from that.
All it does is ensure mostly that they don't lose a £1, pretty well ensuring they don't get relegated, which surely shouldn't be the aim of a tipping competition. Anyone who picks horses at a reasonable price will hit a losing run and get relegated eventually.
Imagine the pelters larabrown would get if he was boasting about winners at 1/20-1/10-1/7-1/3 etc.

There already is a division within the top league with those willing to take a gamble filling the top places.

By the way not all odds on favourites win. You might get that impression from this thread.

There have been a few of these types of threads over the years, naps comp has been running for about 20? The basic structure hasn't changed, beyond tweaks to number of players in the top flight, or rest day rules.
That's because the founding principles are sound, you get 50p back for 1/2 and £2 for 2/1, simple straightforward maths. That's not to say there isn't room for different competitions with alternative scoring methods, just that this one is the original and most basic.
For me the promotion and relegation aspect makes it more interesting. Rather than being lost in a sea of a 100 or so napsters fighting for mid table mediocrity, or not caring about avoiding relegation thereby pin sticking outsiders, I take pleasure from winning Div 3 or 2, can't get much beyond that.
As madhatter pointed out, you do in effect have us all in one when the yearly naps tables are updated.
More seasoned players will remember a much higher turnround in settlers, we are so lucky the last few years to have these guys look after things in such a brilliant manner, and their absence from commenting on these sorts of threads tells you something.
This comp is no-one individual's and is therefore much harder to change format/rules.
If you hate the way people in the Premier select then do what I do and stay in Div 2/3, we have a lot more fun

Some interesting points

Firstly I think the most important aspect is that we should make things as simple as possible for the settlers, who without their most loyal dedication to the cause we wouldn’t have a competition.

I actually put forward a suggestion a few months ago that given that very fewlayers pick on Sundays, Sundays should be excluded allowing the settlers to have  a well deserved day off.

It isn’t practical giving the settling demands, but smaller divisions with more promotion or relegation would definitely enhance the competition.

It makes you wonder if there was a prize for the winners - be it donated or collected from a monthly entry fee, the tipping styles would differ.
Just a £5 entry would produce a £150 pot - £75, £50 and £25 prizes
Could one of the divisions be reserved for an entry fee - perhaps the Elite division!

If you hate the way people in the Premier select then do what I do and stay in Div 2/3, we have a lot more fun Silly

Or do what i try to do, get in the Premier division and smash them to pieces

You cannot change guys who post the shortest price of the day on
the last day of the month at 4.20 when the thread was originated at 4.19.

That's their mentality for all of the competition

Ps how do they do that?

The thread was originated at 4.16
btw it got beat

The only thing wrong with the competition is the last day rules, you should be able to nap what you want.

The argument about tactical play could apply to any other day and if you pick one at a decent price competitors won't copy anyway. Also a huge advantage to those sat at the computer all day waiting for the thread to go up.

The only thing wrong with the competition is selections posted by Andrew In Sweden ...................... useless

Promotion and relegation should be a bit more fluid. Promote the players that make a profit and relegate the same number from the division above, as long as they made a loss. It`s a bit ridiculous that you can be promoted with -3 and fail to be promoted at +10,both of which has happened to me previously.

1. No emails/proxy postings, its easy to access the Betfair Forum from anywhere in the world, post your own selection or bugger off..

2. No multiple user names. They know who they are, so just get rid.

3. This is Betfair, win bets to be settled at Bfsp, this will encourage those to think again about using odds on selections too often as those who post odds against will have the benefit of the 'extra' percentage from Bfsp, might be more difficult for the 'always odds on' merchants to avoid relegation.

3. EW bets to be settled, win part at Bfsp, place part also at Bfsp.

This week seems particularly relevant in terms of clueless and lazy visa vi the "premiership",a contradiction in terms?

Do they actually realise they are as Skinto described?

Btw can anyone explain how one avatar can be extremely ill and yet their other egos perfectly healthy?

Just asking as Skinto and Norfolk Mafia are genuinely seriously ill,even weaslewise!!?

The Premier division has been as it is for as long as i can remember.
Many years ago, my thoughts as i climbed into Div 1 was, right it`s my job
and everyone else's to knock them off their perch. I still have the same outlook.
I not only want to win it, i want to smash the division to pieces in so much win it
by a country mile. That said, not everyone is like me on-line or in life.

Each to their own

Big difference is Shane,you have always been a competitive and decent fella!!

The trick is not to take it too seriously.

It`s my nature. I played cricket and tennis when younger at a low but decent level.
When on the court or bowling i wanted to smash my opponents to pieces. Afterwards
i`d want to be their best friend.

I wish Paul all the very best.

ttt as per my post on the friday prem thread

When I joined Division 3, I set myself a personal goal of winning the Premier Division. I'm fully aware that it is very unlikely to happen but, I intend the utmost fun in trying to succeed. I guess the point I'm trying to make is, If it ain't broke don't fix it.

With a few exceptions the Premier Division has been yet another odds on fest this month. As many have won (several falling over line) it has made it very difficult for those who are willing to take a risk. There is nothing between the vast majority so a loser can easily lose you umpteen places, and increase the pressure on the next selection. You are effectively penalised for having a go. That doesn't look great. Seemingly, half the division have a target of just staying in the division.

Sadly, I have joined the club today as I don't see why the odds on merchants should gain any ground just by picking a 1/5 shot.

The only way to shake things up, and produce a more meaningful (and interesting) division would be to limit the number of odds on selections. I think three a month would be more than enough. A fourth and it's deemed a loser.

... leave all the rule tweaks alone and simply significantly reduce the number in the Premier Division

If you're 12th of 30 with a week to go, you can simply choose lazy picks and be uncompetitive.
If you're 12th of 16 with a week to go, you're going to have to put some work in and the competition remains healty.

Plus, if you're fortunate to win the Premier League for a month,
then you know you've been up against 15 'triers' and are a tip-top tipster.

The people who win the division are thankfully, not the odds on pickers, unless they feel they are safe enough to throw a dart in the last week. That's there only chance of winning. Look at the strike rates of players not even in profit. Unfortunately, those who get relegated are also those who give it a go. There is a huge midfield pack. 

So even if you cut the division in half you are still going to get a fair number just trying to stay in the division for most of the month so I doubt very much it would be more competitive. Just a smaller version of what we already have. 

Taking away the easy option on a regular basis is the only guaranteed way to achieve a change.

stewarts rise • May 2, 2023 1:37 PM BST
Yet many people regularly put up the shortest priced horse of the day, what effort does that take, what pleasure does anyone derive from that.
All it does is ensure mostly that they don't lose a £1, pretty well ensuring they don't get relegated, which surely shouldn't be the aim of a tipping competition. Anyone who picks horses at a reasonable price will hit a losing run and get relegated eventually.

Shanelee1966 • May 2, 2023 6:26 PM BST
Or do what i try to do, get in the Premier division and smash them to pieces

Shanelee, i remembered this post and you did well after going up with a £39 LSP from Div 1 and you came 4th in June and won the premier league in May by having a proper go. Unfortunately as i said anyone who has a proper go at tipstering will hit a long losing run eventually and looking at this months table you may well be back in Div 1 next month, whilst the avoid relegation at all costs merchants make up most of the middle of table, safely away from relegation, ridiculous imo.

The long losing runs are difficult, not financially, emotionally

Gearoid Brouder would be a perfect fit for the "Premiership"!!

i agree with DD but hard for the administrtors toput into practice.

Why not just ban any selection that is shorter than 4/6. that would sort it for sure

Seems like DD has joined the lemmings?