How Can We Make The Premiership More Exciting!!

"You have obviously given up the race for the premiership Pete"

Salmon or Mr Consistency either will do. You see as a former Title holder and currently 4th in this Months premiership (mind you we can't read too much into the form with Shane being in 5th) I really can't understand how anyone from the lower Divisions can knock you. It is very rare to see you struggling for relegation so we can only put that down to you being a Class above the rest of us.
So it is only us from the lower regions being  jealous of your success that explains the remarks on this thread so keep on keeping on and I for one will never slag you off until I reach the heights that you have achieved.
So my message to all the Premiership Slaggers is PUT UP AND SHUT UP.

^^^^^
The Voice of Reason     

There is very little skill involved in picking short price certainties every day and I like many others have resorted to picking endless odds on shots just in order to stay with the pack as it were- a kind of " if you can't beat them then join them" attitude if you like.There was such a row when LRF  instructions were done away with as there were clearly  pros and cons to both sides. And yet despite Reged saying the new rules are working fine they clearly aren't in the premiership as all it's done has made the Premiership even more negative than before.as has been said before the Premierships a different beast to all the other divisions in that it's a survival at all costs policy first and foremost for most of us so all I have suggested is looking at ways to make it a more competitive division to participate in and as far as I can see the main problem is that far too many of us pick too many ridiculously  short priced selections day in day out.Not too many premiership posters have commented  on the thread with their views which leads me to think  that maybe everyone is happy with things as they are but I for one propose that we put it to the vote and ask them whether we should be restricted to a set amount of odds on shots every month- it would be interesting to see how the vote went and I don't believe it would be hard at all to  police if used in conjunction with the no post days. So come on Shane GIVE US THE VOTE

I wouldn't quarrel with democracy DP.
Though I might emigrate if the vote went the wrong way.
I had a taste of being in Div 3 last month when I posted for somebody who was away. Felt free as a bird. I might like it there   

I'll be blunt. If there's any more changes at this stage I'm off. This new system is only just up and running and some people want to change it already. I spent a fair bit of time adjusting our spreadsheets for that change and I aint doing it again awhile. As I say, when I get a spare nanosecond I will try to see to what extent DP might be right. But to be honest, I find it a bit odd for someone to criticise something and then say they do it themselves. There's no bleedin money at stake so why stress so much about relegation? I suggest the first thing for the likes of DP to do is 'heal thyself' and be more bold rather than call for changes to save him from himself.

I agree with Reged.

If avoiding relegation is the limit of people's ambition (and there is no doubt most of the Prem tipsters can't see further than that) it is a pretty sad state.
Try being a China Castle rather than an Alan Keyte for once.

However, I also say that it is a napsters right to pick what he wants without penalty. If he wants to pick 30 horses between 4/6 and 1/10 then so be it. It's up to us (you) to pick better value horses and get a bigger monthly total.

People like China and deadbrain and HKP must love it that no-one ever makes a realistic attempt at taking away their crowns

I think Reg has put it to bed tbh. We are already one settler short so we can hardly afford to lose another one. I thought there were pros and cons about getting rid of LRF but I eventually voted against. The vote went the other way but I've not complained about it.

As Reg says just leave it as it is and concentrate on your own selections instead of worrying about what everyone else picks. Does it really matter if you get relegated after all its only a bit of fun with no money involved.

My initial post was "tongue in cheek".......but I still believe this change would make leagues more competitive  and encourage going for horses at odds against.

Take what I said below -

DFCIRONMAN 14 May 14 22:39 
stealthgun-

There are currently quite a few players in DIV 1 that would say just need a 5-1 SP winner to get into positive position etc........


10               101d1-1     grey shark (1)                      Master Mariner - 4.10 Winc          LAST            -1.00          -£0.54       
11       +2      1121d-1     Andrew In Sweden (1)                Gwanako - 4.40 Winc                  Won 1/2f          0.50          -£1.09       
12       -1      0201d-0     Ricky Santini (1)                    Sirpertan - 5.35 Bev                2nd 2/1        -1.00          -£1.37       
13       +2      11101-2     Kentish Man                          Final Pass - 2.20 Sedge              Won 2/5f          0.40          -£1.82       
14       -2      122d3f1     eccentric (1)                        Bells 'N' Banjos - 8.35 Sthl        lost            -1.00          -£2.08       
15       +5      21n31-0     SilverBuck1                          Virtuel Doudon - 6.10 FfosL          Won 4/6f          0.67          -£2.68       
16       -2      22201-0     Poppydog                            Handwoven - 5.00 Bev                lost            -1.00          -£2.70       
17       -1      02110-0     Ashmal                              Bells 'N' Banjos - 8.35 Sthl        lost            -1.00          -£3.61       
18       +4      1p030-2     dogdayafternoon                      Final Pass - 2.20 Sedge              Won 2/5f          0.40          -£3.85       
19       -2      2032000     top2rated                            Apache Gold - 7.55 Kill              lost            -1.00          -£4.00       
20       -2      02100-1     Red Bloom                            Triggers Broom - 2.30 Bev            lost            -1.00          -£4.17       
21       -2      21331-0     kwalker                              Molko Jack - 5.30 Sthl              2nd 4/1        -1.00          -£4.28       
22       -1      33000-1     hong kong fooey                      Al Muheer - 4.00 Bev                3rd 15/2        -1.00          -£4.50

Say they are get a 5-1 SP movement between now and end of month.........that would shake up those in PREM truddling along with a negative score.


Incentive for fast tracking to PRE from lower DIVISIONS.....and only the cream.....or lucky ones...will survive in PREMIERSHIP.
============================================================================================================================


If you were in PREM DIVISION, and in a relegation spot, you would know that it is not just getting above the one just above relegation line, but you would know that there is every chance that say 9 positive scores in DIVISION 1 will be promoted........so you need to aim at 10th bottom spot in league in PREM to try to avoid relegation! This makes it very likely that those just below relegation line in PREM , and those up to 9th bottom of PREM would have to set there sights higher than they would under present rules.

It gives greater incentive for those in lower DIVISIONS to get into positive tally for month, and thus get promoted.

The need to get odds against winners from those in say bottom 14 in PREM to reduce chance of relegation ( Currently 9 positive, I think, in DIVISION 1 at present) will invigorate those up to 14th bottom spot in PREM...................as with some of players just in negative figures down to say -5 tally are well capable of getting into positive tally by end of month, thus likely to increase those promoted from 9 to say 13/14 !

So far more incentive to get into positive score in all DIVISIONS. Generally should raise standard of scores across the DIVISIONS.

Those who choose the odds on route can still do so whenever they wish to, but they know that if in negative tally by end of month in PREM, then they are wide open to relegation!

More people will be involved in promotion and relegation battle , and should invigorate all the DIVISIONS.

If some choose not to participate in a more fierce competition, then that will be "sad". If they decide to give it a go, then hopefully they grab some better odds winners late in month to enjoy the competition more.

Is it fair to those in negative positions in PREM that they can be relegated with -.04 points tally? IMO....YES, as PREM should be for those who get positive scores, as they will survive the change.

For those who are really looking towards winning the YEARLY NAPS comp, so what if relegated because in negative position in one month. They will know that if they get a positive tally next month, then fair chance they will be promoted again.


(If PREM has 4 negative scores at end of month and DIV 1 has  10 positives.......there will be minimum of 5 promoted....so you can still be in positive in PREM and still be relegated ( the exception being that if the 5th bottom player in PREM has a greater positive score than the 5 highest player in DIV 1, then they stay in PREM!)

Such changes would make it more interesting for all the players in DIVISIONS.....if any decide to stay

Sorry for posting more thoughts on such a change.......but dubai did ask the question

Status quo is ok by me......but a change would definitely shake things up a bit

Understand Reged how you feel, and other controllers. (Never saw your post til finished above one )

Leave things alone.....but something to put "fear" into those in negative figs in PREM...DIV 1 DIV 2

STATUS QUO is fine !

Whatever you want

If Napsters want to pick odds on shots let them do so and yes feel free to criticise as I have done on many occasion but let's not be talking about a rule change. We have to have something to banter about.
I doubt I would be going odds on, on a regular basis if I ever reached the premiership and let's face it if Shane can get there just about anyone can. (I say just about anyone as I was thinking about Reg at the same time)

You are awful Pete

see you've still not made it pete ... in fact, wot's that, still in Div 2?

I`ve given this quite a bit of thought today whilst at work.

As I mentioned before over the years, I`m not one for major changes as I feel we have a great comp, a little tweak here and there is a possibility and has happened.

We need far more people to voice an opinion for change, I mean far more.

The odds on critics need to look at other divisions and see how many are selected there, far more than most would seem to realise.

Reged has spoken out earlier today and I appreciate his honesty. As most of you will be aware we have been looking for a permanent settler to step in to no avail. We have lost three recently, yes three. bettysboy, Weaver & FCH. All three stepped down because they were unhappy, I`ll not go into detail or rake up old ground. I don`t need to tell you I was fairly p1ssed off with the circumstances regarding all three who all did a tremendous job on a daily basis. This I feel is a more pressing matter right now. I along with Reg and knight commander need some support on the settling front.

Reged has spent a lot of time and effort on these sheets we use. A big thank you for that.

Dubai obviously has a point but as I`ve always said it`s up to everyone else to knock the so called established premier napsters off their perch, this has only happened to a degree over the last few years. If the standard rises in the prem the odds on brigade will slowly but surely be relegated. So, come on everyone else.

whoever picks the most odds-on shots in a month is made a permanent settler as punishment.

It would be a nice consolation prize ending back in your nest Reg

not by the time I've finished with you pete

Forget the burning gates of hell Pete. Come and join me in the land of milk and honey

Where the sun always shines and you never get old

but salmon spray's at least 230!

and he will still be in the prem Reg when he reaches 300.

petemac     15 May 14 17:54 
It would be a nice consolation prize ending back in your nest Reg

You only have to ask pete

Yeah, now KC's learned how to retire people there's no stoppin him! Watch out pete!

The trap door is slowly opening

I wasn't born before 1792. You do the maths     

I've had a eureka moment, and it's linked to undecided's annual table!

At the end of each calendar year, based on undecided's annual / 12 month rolling table, the top 25 start the New Year in the Premiership, the next 30 in the Div 1, etc

This will be advantageous for the following reasons:

Tipping odds-on shots every day will no longer guarantee Premiership status come January 1st.

The league you start the new year in will reflect your overall merit for the previous 12 months.

We still have relegation / promotion for 11 months, but where you start on January 1st will be determined by undecided's annual / 12 month rolling table.

More kudos will be given to the person who tops the annual table.

Come on George, good suggestion but lets leave them alone now surely they are all in the prem on Merit.

Am I right in saying the year Weaver Fish was yearly naps champ, he never once was in the Premiership? If so, surely therefore he deserved to start the new year in the top div, after all he had been the best tipster overall for the previous 12 months!


Perhaps someone could post up the top 25 from undecided's 2013 table and the actual line-up for the Prem in January. Who knows, perhaps there won't be any difference!

I was in both     

Well done Salmon Spray. YOU'RE IN!

We have undecided selflessly updating those tables and once a month they get a run out. Some of us look at them and think, lovely, well done those at the top and in profit.

But what if they took on this greater significance, and we ALL looked at the table and knew a top 25 place was the goal, cuz come January 1st, those top 25 who had done the best over the past 12 months would be starting the new year in the Prem!

Or a watered down version, say top ten (yearly) those outside the premier in the top ten would automatically gain a place in the premier division.

I`ve thought about increasing the number in the premier to 30 and having 5 relegated, two ways you can look at that 

Will it improve it or not?

The extra relegation place shouldn`t make any difference to how things are now. Then we would have 2 extra napsters competing and an extra 1 promoted each month.

always thought that was a good option shane

And relegated obviously.

Ah Reg, was going to ask you your opinion along with kc & m

I`m off out shortly (well gardening) I`ll give you a buzz later if you`re around Reg, let me know the best time.

not going anywhere shane cept downstairs for my dinner of course!

I like george's idea

Though what would happen if someone had a bad 6 months then changed tactics and worked his way up the league finally getting to the premiership and then the next month on January they may find themselves demoted.

Myself and Reg feel it would be a good idea to increase the numbers in the premier division from 28 to 30, with an extra promotion place being available for the next 2 months from div 1. Then when we have reached 30 to increase from four to five relegated/promoted every month.

I need feedback from momms & kc though first.

We get enough riff-raff already imo.

I don`t quite know how to take that

Never been in the top division so feel its inappropriate to voice  too much of an an opinion, I'm sure many people have ideas on how to "improve" the league even me but at the end of the day its a pretty successful comp from top to bottom, the only thing I would say its a completely different animal in the bottom division no pressure there with people tipping much bigger prices, in the top division its more a survival course which is a total shame as most people in there have probably got there by a different method but once there the main priority is staying there rather than winning it.

pumpy - it is a very good format with the main feature being promotion and relegation.

GEORGE I still remember that comment you made about me and salmon a few months ago and as far as I'm concerned you can f*ck off!

The idea of incorporating the annual/rolling Naps Stats is interesting.

The tipsters at the top of that, play the tipping/betting game, how we'd all like to play it in real life.
30 days graft to tread water and finish where you started, with the same bank balance as the start of the month,
totally defeats the object of semi/full-time betting.

Those continually succesful on the annual/rolling Naps Stats, deserve far more (Betfair) kudos,
than the paltry views those threads seem to get.

The idea of incorporating the annual/rolling Naps Stats is .... terrible.

We are in a league format and this skewers the NAP's table slightly. This has been looked at before and 16 of the top 20 were already in the prem!..... a one off 'blitz' would be very destructive IMHO..... someone has just  mentioned that it was possible for someone to get promoted to the prem then be demoted before a ball is kicked...but someone in the prem could have scraped a couple of months and be relegated.. the rolling naps table should stand alone.

Totally agree with Ming

I only judge myself by undecided's rolling naps table (and am found desperately wanting!) but to bugger about with promotion/relegation in that way would be bloody stupid!

I also don't see how making the Prem bigger and adding in an extra relegation place will make the slightest difference to Prem player strategy.

However, I do question why the Prem isn't the same size at Div 1 and 2 in the first place?
It's not like we have Champions League/Europa Cup committments is it!

I don`t think it will mad but at least you`ll have 2 extra people competing every month and it opens up an extra promotion place from div 1 every month too.

So over a 12 month period, potentially you can promote new blood in to the premier an extra dozen times.

Also, potentially, you could have a completely different premier division every six months.

Obviously to get close to the above, those in divisions 1,2&3 must perform and be fairly consistant, maybe more so than at present. They have a large part to play in the scheme of things too.

If you looked at the prem yesterday there were plenty of 'big' priced attempts.

You could have a player sitting in div3 picking obvious odds-on shots but never getting promoted suddenly find themselves a few divisions higher. I think it would it would make things worse for div3 players because at the moment you have a few bad months going for long shots and then finally get one or 2 to get out the division. Whereas if you used the yearly tables to decide you'd get more players taking less risks and just waiting a few months to get promoted.

You are a touchy one Soldier that's why I never say anything bad about you.

Pete - did you receive a strange email from me? If you did, I wasn`t from me if you follow. I received one back with your email address but doubt very much you sent it.

Stevie - not only are you a great footballer but have a good insight on how things would work if changes were implemented.

The Law Of Unintended Consequences.

Would you encourage more caution/strategy in say div 3? Quite possibly.

As I mentioned above, it`s down to the napsters in the lower leagues to up their game and knock the elite of their perch.

Ming again makes a good point above.

I have no objection to increasing the size of the Prem to 30. Not that I've thought it through yet,but shane's arguments in favour of it seem to have some merit.

There is very little you can do to liven up the Premier Div without creating more work for the settler. And that's of paramount importance. But I do tend to agree that it needs livening up. It's become very dull, predicatable and boring.

The only suggestion I can make, which would not create any more work, is to limit the type of races from which players can select.
Handicaps only, for example, could be one idea. You don't get many short prices in handicaps.

Once again, I haven't thought this through. It's a spur-of-the-moment idea which may well have been suggested before.

Up to you to discuss it and then dismiss it.

Yes I received one from you something about a "Diet"
are you calling me a fat bas*****?

Yes it could do with livening up a bit HKF tried last month but only lasted 5 minutes.(useless he is)

Once Reg and I get there, things will change for the better Sparks will fly , planets will explode and Soldier may even admit he is a cross dresser.

I still think its simple to implement - Limit (ONLY THE PREMIERSHIP REGED) Our odds on selections in the Premiership -simples- and before anyone bleats on about potential non runners creating "unwanted" odds on shots surely if you had used up all your lives as it were then you would be making sure that scenario couldnt happen. Surely it cant be that hard to implement Shane -or am i missing something-
Again the lack of input from the Premiership "allstars" is deafening  which suggests they are happy with their lot but come on Shearer et al i know you want to chip in and have your say -the stage is yours .Either way Shane we should be allowed a vote  to decipher what the real feeling is as i for one have held my hands up to "playing the game" as it were in the Premiership to the actual detriment of trying to win it and im sure many others now have the same attitude- that of survival at all costs- .It needs freshening up as its not working at present imo

I`ve thought of only using certain races momms, but decided aginst it. I feel we would be taking choices away from napsters and would feel restrictive.

I don't do handicaps. That's why I've stayed in the Premiership for 3 years.
Now I've given the game away     

The email wasn`t from me Pete, some sort of bleedin virus, I`ve had one from another Betfair dude but it isn`t

Dubai - to cap the price at say 1.5 (1/2) anything winning at under settled as a n/r isn`t difficult to police.

I now feel the settlers need to be in union regarding any changes no matter how small or widespread before anything would even be considered. Then we need a high number voicing their opinion for the said change. We just don`t have that at the moment. I understand fully your concern but at this time the best way forward is to increase the numbers in the premier and when 30 is reached have 5 promoted/relegated every month.

Thanks for the input momms.

Shane , with the greatest of respect, increasing the size of the Premiership will have no effect whatsoever on the amount of odds on selections posted in Premiership - in fact i suggest it will only increase them -. Give us the vote in the Premiership to see just how people actually feel on the subject -that has to be the democratic way forward surely as then the "elite" will have to make a noise as it were. Strangely at present they are mainly quiet on the subject which does seem rather odd

DP, I would say that restricting any vote on what happens in the Prem to current Prem players only is a non-starter. Divs 1, 2 and 3 are full of ex-Prem players trying to get back there. And everyone else is trying to get there too. That's the whole point of the exercise - to win the Premier title. So every player must have a say in what happens in the Prem.

But I do agree it needs a good shake-up.

Shanelee1966     17 May 14 12:01 
I`ve thought of only using certain races momms, but decided aginst it. I feel we would be taking choices away from napsters and would feel restrictive.

So you think you're a dictator now do you?

I have to disillusion you and point out that the decision isn't yours to make.

And yes, the whole point of only allowing certain types of races would be to take choices away from napsters and make it restrictive, thus making it a hell of a lot more competitive and more enjoyable.

Any rescriction on what you can and can't nap, whether it be limits on odds-on shots or only napping is certain races, is surely a non-starter. The whole point of a naps competition is to pick you best bet of the day and it shouldn't matter about price or race type.

Spot on China!

A dictator, I`ve never been called that before

No don't think restrictions on race type will work, besides some people may fancy taking on what they think is a poor odds-on shot in a maiden with a bigger priced horse.

I think it`s a step too far. Who`s going to decide which races? All you will get is complaints.

A Dic maybe

With China on that.

I`ve always listened to everyone and encouraged debate from day 1.

My sole interest is keeping the comp going for everyone and having fun along the way.

Reged has posted earlier in this thread and made his position very clear, kc has emailed me and wishes to keep things going as they are too. I`m fairly relaxed, so feel to take it any further would jeopardise the whole comp. Not only that where are the other dissenting voices? We are presently in a weak position regarding settlers, man of many moods has very kindly offered to step in but only on a temp basis which we are all very grateful to him for.

Shane , with the greatest of respect, increasing the size of the Premiership will have no effect whatsoever on the amount of odds on selections posted in Premiership - in fact i suggest it will only increase them -. Give us the vote in the Premiership to see just how people actually feel on the subject -that has to be the democratic way forward surely as then the "elite" will have to make a noise as it were. Strangely at present they are mainly quiet on the subject which does seem rather odd

I have to disillusion you and point out that the decision isn't yours to make.


Who`s decision is it to make where changes are concerned? We have lost three settlers recently because of petty disputes.
They all did a fantastic job but felt p1ssed off because of certain comments/critism. I will not allow that to continue, that does sound like a dictator I know but feel in the overall interest of the comp is warranted. What am I supposed to do, stand by and watch others go down the same route with no one prepared to step in.

I along with the other settlers are guardians of this comp. My aim is as stated above and hopefully leave the comp in a better position than when I started.

My point is, how many debates re changes are we going to have. Whatever we do many will feel aggrieved.

My proposed change in numbers is no guarantee to alter things but surely it opens things up a little. What does everyone else think?

A Dic maybe



More like it Pete, I have been called that before

Well said Maggie

Nowt wrong with the comp as it is, just needs some decent tipsters to get up to the premiership and shake things up and extra places could help in that respect.

I say yes shane - make the prem the same size as the others.

No other changes needed.

With the current situation regarding a shortfall of settlers we need to tread very carefully to keep this going.
At the moment it is all boxed up with FRAGILE stamped on the front.
I think it is best left to Shane to carry the box in the present climate.
Shane is no way a dictator he is a very sporting player and good listener who does a Job second to none. For example he was against the change regarding LRF but still accepted the situation and got on with the job almost straight from the hospital bed. IT IS NOT THE TIME FOR A CHANGE maybe sometime in the future but not now.

May 16, 2014 -- 9:50PM, soldieroffortune wrote:

GEORGE I still remember that comment you made about me and salmon a few months ago and as far as I'm concerned you can f*ck off!

Refresh my memory, please. It's obviously had a profound affect on you. You should have reported me if it bothered you much!

Oh, and btw, has your 'twin' had his broadband fixed? He's on a promise with the running of Div 1!

Thanks guys.

Pete, your comment re not the time now is exactly what I was going to comment on next

I/we need to sort a more pressing problem out first.

I agree with China. Silly idea.

Shane, re your proposal to increase the size to 30, please bear in mind that if a new settler isn't found soon, the Premier and Div 1 will have to merge, creating a Division of 60.

That should be fun for the settler

Don't worry MOMM, Stealthy will be coming to the rescue soon. Keep the faith!

Sixty

How can we make the premiership more exciting?
Don't worry all as I have sorted it see Prem Sunday thread.

What have you gone and done now Pete?

when 626 makes it there you will all be playing for 2nd place anyway

He`s on a roll lately