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BYC (Betfair Your Competitions) Champions League 2013
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By:
undecided When: 05 Jul 13 22:50
1.30 cut-off for selections Saturday.
By:
undecided When: 05 Jul 13 22:51
or 1.29 if you're selecting first race Happy
By:
Monte Christo When: 06 Jul 13 10:01
The Fugue - 3.50 Sandown

Best of luck ud.Happy
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 11:14
Brave Pick MC, and a good one, fancy that myself so now do I look for a bigger price or "play safe"?
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 11:16
Actually, if we draw then I go through so no point me not going for a bigger price I suppose.
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 11:22
Which just goes to show this comp isn't necessarily about picking shorties, if your opponent is brave then your hand may be forced.
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 12:06
My Kingdom 4.0 Leic

good luck Monte
By:
GEORGE.B When: 06 Jul 13 13:08
Not even sure this is gonna be bigger than 5-4

Wish I'd known about this 1.30 cut-off time before today Mischief

2.55 Albasharah

cheers undecided
By:
sixtwosix When: 06 Jul 13 13:22
Mars - 3.50 Sandown
thanks
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 14:27
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
3 00.25 0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3
1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1 -02.00 2
undecided My Kingdom 4.0 Leic v 3.50 San The Fugue Monte Christo
3 01.00 2 03.00 bettysboy Cruiser 8.15 Ffos W 3/1 v 3/1 W 8.45 Ffos Swendab shanelee1966 03.00 2 06.00 6


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
6 3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0 1
1 -02.00 1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1 -02.00 2
03.13 -01.00 china castle Whitefall 8.0 Bath L 3/2 v 3.50 San Mars sixtwosix
GEORGE.B Albasharah 2.55 Hay v 5/4 W 6.10 Str Azure Fly salmon spray 01.25 -00.75
By:
GEORGE.B When: 06 Jul 13 15:01
Well done Salmon Spray

good luck all
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 17:58
Group 1
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 01.25 undecided Ribbons 3.25 Newm W 5/4 v 5/4 L 6.55 Leic Curl bettysboy -01.00 0
1 -01.00 shanelee1966 Thunder Strike 4.25 Asc L 11/2 v 5/1 L 6.45 Leop Mouteab Monte Christo -01.00 1
0 -01.00 undecided Cornish Beau 8.40 Leic L 7/4 v 4/1 W 9.20 Ham Limit Up shanelee1966 04.00 3
1 -01.00 bettysboy Zarosa 7.50 Thir L 5/2 v 7/2 L 6.30 Curr Libertarian Monte Christo -01.00 1
4 -00.75 1 -01.00 undecided My Kingdom 4.0 Leic L 11/2 v 5/1 L 3.50 San The Fugue Monte Christo -01.00 1 -03.00 3
3 01.00 2 03.00 bettysboy Cruiser 8.15 Ffos W 3/1 v 3/1 W 8.45 Ffos Swendab shanelee1966 03.00 2 06.00 6


Group 2
OvPts OvPL Pts P/L Player Selection Tim/Mt Res SP SP Res Tim/Mt Selection Player P/L Pts OvPL OvPts
3 02.50 china castle The Rectifier 4.0 Red W 5/2 v 5/4 L 9.10 Kemp Inka Surprise GEORGE.B -01.00 0
1 -01.00 salmon spray Grandads Horse 3.30 MR L 3/10 v 11/10 L 7.55 Leop Edith Cowan sixtwosix -01.00 1
3 01.63 china castle Paris Rose 8.40 Newm W 13/8 v 5/4 L 7.15 Newc Prussian salmon spray -01.00 0
1 -01.00 GEORGE.B Look On By 5.30 Muss L 7/2 v 20/1 L 3.15 Newc Brockwell sixtwosix -01.00 1
7 03.13 1 -01.00 china castle Whitefall 8.0 Bath L 3/2 v 9/2 L 3.50 San Mars sixtwosix -01.00 1 -03.00 3
1 -03.00 0 -01.00 GEORGE.B Albasharah 2.55 Hay L 5/4 v 5/4 W 6.10 Str Azure Fly salmon spray 01.25 3 -00.75 4
By:
bettysboy When: 06 Jul 13 18:34
congrats ud but how did you end up winning a point by backing a loser?
By:
bettysboy When: 06 Jul 13 20:06
aah i've read the rules - i think it is wrong to award a player a point forselecting a loser in the match also selects a loser. Losers lose Winners win.
By:
Monte Christo When: 06 Jul 13 21:42
Well done to the top 2 in both groups.

I'm keeping my powder dry till the biggie starts.Grin

Great idea for a competition ud.
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 23:15
thanks MC

bettysboy - I wanted it that way where you could have draws if no-one picks a winner in a match. Ok I'm influenced by the scoring method in football, and this isn't quite the same.
You see it as rewarding picking a loser selection, but I see it as rewarding not losing to your opponent.
I could be wrong, that's what this trial is about.

I'd like your post trial opinions on the scoring.
By:
undecided When: 06 Jul 13 23:20
George - yea I did include the first race cut-off on Saturdays in the rules.
I feel there needs to be the distinction between playing early week where you have more choices right up to the off, but open yourself up to showing your hand to your opponent, and waiting for Saturday when you can both play late but blind, in that you can't be sure of your opponents result/price.
By:
bettysboy When: 07 Jul 13 09:49
Its OK ud, I understand its matchplay, just hadnt read through all the rules and was being lazy.
By:
GEORGE.B When: 07 Jul 13 12:09
Cheers undecided, I'll remember for next time.
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 09 Jul 13 19:51
ud - in the unlikely event that I haven`t already won the trial by now Laugh I`m away Friday 12th until Saturday 20th, what would you suggest for next weeks selection? Can I ask Reg to post for me?
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 09 Jul 13 19:52
Oh, hold on... is the next round from this Saturday onwards?
By:
undecided When: 09 Jul 13 19:59
Hi shane, no that was it for the trial, just to get a feel of how the scoring works for a group stage.
As for how I'm going to accommodate holiday cover I don't know if there is an answer because I don't want people posting for others.
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 09 Jul 13 20:38
I`ll have had mine so anyone who takes a holiday gets eliminated Laugh

Cheers ud,
By:
undecided When: 10 Jul 13 14:02
Suggestions & notes gathered from trial:

0pts for below evens loser
1pt for above evens loser

_______________

Above evens winner - 3pts
Below evens winner - 2pts
Above evens loser - 1pt
Below evens loser - 0pt

___________________

Possible incentive to post first:
1 Bonus point for posting first if your selection ends up being a bigger price than your opponents

__________________

above evens win -  3 pts
above evens loser - 1 pt
below evens winner - 1 pt
below evens loser - 0 pt

i.e. if you bet below evens and your opponent does not , the best you can get is a draw.
i.e. if both of you bet above evens or both below , either player can win.


___________________

Once you post a selection, you won't be able to change it, unless it's a duplicate or non-runner.
You won't be able to leave reserves.
If there is a tie on pts and P/L and no-one missed a selection, then the next tie-breaker would be who had the bigger odds selections.
Just UK & Ireland races to select from.
I will also insist on players posting their own selections, no posts on behalf of anyone else.

___________________

Next stage seeding for group winners?

______________________

Bonus point (2?) for biggest single winner at the end of group stage
By:
undecided When: 10 Jul 13 14:03
Any more comments now that the trial has finished?
By:
china castle When: 10 Jul 13 18:48
Bonus point for winner 10-1 or above as well as previously stated bonus point for biggest winner in the group. So potential for 2 bonus points .

You need to keep the interest going if somebody loses their first 2 games .

Don't think anything else needs changing or it will get too complicated.
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 10 Jul 13 18:53
Yes, Brucie bonus for



















































































Yes, Brucie bonuses as per china`s suggestion. Good game good game Grin
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 10 Jul 13 18:54
That was my dogs fault Blush
By:
undecided When: 10 Jul 13 19:53
I agree with shane's dog.
By:
Shanelee1966 When: 10 Jul 13 20:09
He`s a rascal I tell ya, jumped on my laptop twice Devil
By:
salmon spray When: 14 Jul 13 12:34
I'm not commenting on these people who want extra pts because their pin gets lucky         Silly
What I would point out,a bit belatedly as I have been away all week,is that if GEORGE's had won ( as it should have done as it was also my nap ) it was the same price as mine,with no way of separating us that I can see in the rules. It didn't happen and it won't very often but with 60+ rounds planned I would have thought it probably would at least once. How about rewarding the person who goes first.
By:
DeSSieReborn When: 16 Jul 13 09:54
So triallists.....Feedback.

What do you feel is the best approach to this?
By:
undecided When: 17 Jul 13 14:07
salmon as you rightly point out if George's had been a winner it would be a tie on points and P/L so I posted this earlier in the thread as a possible solution:

If there is a tie on pts and P/L and no-one missed a selection, then the next tie-breaker would be who had the bigger odds selections (winners & losers, cumulative odds).
Or actually the head-head record would be a better tie-breaker after the P/L, although in your case it wouldn't have applied.

I will though consider your suggestion of who posted first.
By:
undecided When: 17 Jul 13 14:29
From the feedback given. I'd consider another bonus point, in addition to the Evens winner bonus point

Either
1. for a winner 3/1, 4/1 or 5/1 and over?
2. or for the player with the highest priced winner in the group stage

In our trial, in group 1, I finished above bettysboy by a point, I beat bettys in our match and bettysboy only managed two draws, but did get a nice 3/1 winner in the last match to finish with the better P/L.
An additional point for a 3/1 winner would have taken bettysboy level on points with me but above me on P/L.
I know you can't take this in isolation, it was a bit of a freakish 3/1 draw in that last match, but what do you think?
By:
undecided When: 17 Jul 13 14:33
Or to keep it simpler, just have the one bonus point for a winner above a certain price, higher than the current Evens, maybe 2/1, and one bonus point for the group's highest priced winner?
By:
undecided When: 17 Jul 13 14:39
Sorry just thinking as I write, one of the things players weren't entirely comfortable with was getting a point for a draw (both players picking losers), where another player lost while picking a winner and got nothing.
My previous suggestion would probably make that worse.
I think the Evens level for the bonus should stay.
By:
china castle When: 17 Jul 13 15:12
Don't think its a problem getting a point when both pick losers , its a group format afterall and thats what makes this competition different than the many others.
By:
undecided When: 17 Jul 13 15:17
ok thanks china, I'm still up for one of the options in my 14:29 post, just that the Evens bonus level should remain.
By:
salmon spray When: 17 Jul 13 15:26
I think it's best left alone tbh.
I think you have to have a bonus pt for an evens or above selection or the/my tactic would simply be to look for as short a one as I could find.
Otherwise I think it should be matchplay and you don't get an extra point for putting 10 past Andorra nor for birdying a hole if your opponent does too.
By:
bettysboy When: 18 Jul 13 19:03
Its matchplay - so my opinion is that you win/draw/lose each match. However as Champions League pay financial bonuses for each goal scored, then the equivalent is a tiered points system for the bigger prices. But to keep it simple I suggest +1 extra point for picking a winner above 2/1:
so :
3pts per win
1pt per draw
0pts for lose
+1 extra point for winner above 2/1
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