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Individual KO competition for Team Tipsterers
Individual KO competition for Team Tipsterers
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Replied UD-just found it
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Here's the proposed format, Mully kindly recapped for me how he used to run his ko comp, I've tweaked it slightly and it's not set in stone yet so if anyone has suggestions I'm happy to consider.
Players will play each other on a knockout basis. Each round will take place on a Saturday Round 1 (last 64) - 10 Dec Round 2 (last 32) - 17 Dec Round 3 (last 16) - 7 Jan Quarter Finals - 14 Jan Semi Finals - 21 Jan Final & 3rd place play-off - 28 Jan I will pick 3 races, on the Thursday/Friday before each round, 2 will be NH and one AW, weather permitting. (This will be increased to 4 races for the semi-finals onwards). Players will be required to pick one horse from each of those 3 races, no duplicates allowed within each match so first come first served. All selections must be in by the time of the first race of that particular round. Non runners/duplicates can be replaced up to the time of the first race. No reserves will be allowed. You will get points for each selection's finishing position down to 4th place. Winner = 10pts Runner-up = 6pts 3rd = 4pts 4th = 2pts Player with most points for all 3 races wins the match. In the event of a tie, the player with most winners/runners-up/3rd/4th placers in that order, will win through. If that still doesn't separate players, or in the event of a 0v0 tie then we'll look at who had most 5th placed selections or 6th etc. and if that still doesn't produce a result then the player who posted their selections first will go through. Example: Player A has one winner, one 5th place and one 7th, that's 10pts for the winner and none for the others. Player B has one 2nd, one 3rd and one 6th, that's 6pts for the 2nd plus 4pts for the 3rd = 10pts. So it's a tie but Player A will go through because they had the winner. Another example: Player A has a 2nd, 4th and 6th, that's 6+2 = 8 Player B has a 2nd, 4th and 5th, that's the same 6+2 = 8 Player B wins because of the better 5th position finisher. The draw will take place the weekend of 3/4 Dec, and it will be "Wimbledon" style so the path right through to the final will be defined. I will randomly assign all players with a number 1 to 64 and post this list on the forum at a pre-arranged time. I will ask a volunteer to post, at the exact same time, a list of numbers 1 to 64, in random order. The first two numbers on the list will be the first match, 2nd two numbers the 2nd match and so on. |
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undecided, so a 3-1 winner would receive the same points as a 20-1 winner, ie 10?
Would it not be a better idea to give extra points for bigger priced winners, like the rules in richardf's AW comp? These are the rules in Richard's comp: Winner selected scores 7 points Second selected scores 3 points Third selected scores 1 point If SP is greater than 6/1 points are doubled If SP is greater than 12/1 points are trebled If SP is greater than 20/1 points are quadrupled IF SP IS EVENS OR SHORTER POINTS ARE HALVED (i.e a 4/7 winner scores 3.5, a napped 10/11 second scores 3) All nap points won are doubled. As above, you could allow one of the selections to be napped and double the points if the nap wins / is placed. Of course, you could replace Richard's points system with your own. Just as suggestion to reward bigger priced winners. |
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*Just a
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Also, so there is no bias towards the NH boys, can we please have 2 AW races too?
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Thanks George, I'm not familiar with how that comp works, I do take on board using sp, those were my first thoughts, but I'm guided by Mully's experience in running a comp like this and the thinking is that a player can fluke a big price in what is such a short format of only 3 races. This way the onus is on winners & placers rather than longer term value.
As for the 2 NH & 1 AW, well it is NH season, there are two or three NH meetings to one AW so it's natural to bias it to NH? Perhaps if we do another one next summer then Flat/AW will take precedent. I didn't really want to go to 4 races, extra workload and all, but maybe if you AW boys & girls feel strongly about it, and someone would be willing to help tot up the scores on the first busiest round then maybe! |
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Thanks for the explanation, undecided. Thought I might be pushing my luck with the additional AW race!
Point taken about selecting a fluky big priced winner, but if anyone can bang a big-priced one in for 6 consecutive rounds, I want to subscribe to their tipping line! I was just wondering about the SP side of it and I'm happy to go with whatever yourself and Mully think is most appropriate. |
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Oh, and I'm not expecting to last long whatever the rules are!
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Some fair points there George. I remember back in the olden days I devised a non-S.P type scoring system for a head-to-head K.O comp so it rewarded a more compact one-on-one tussle with your opponent over the three legs.
I deemed that a guy with 3 x 6/1 winners in a match up was a more deserved winner than the guy with just one winner @ 20/1 and two others tailed off. Essentially players are simply trying to nominate the winner/best possible placing in each leg regardless of the S.P. Think of it as three individual arm wrestles  |
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oh aye
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I can translate from the Geordie.
I believe shearer wishes to participate. Hth. |
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Mully 24 Nov 11 00:10
Some fair points there George. I remember back in the olden days I devised a non-S.P type scoring system for a head-to-head K.O comp so it rewarded a more compact one-on-one tussle with your opponent over the three legs. I deemed that a guy with 3 x 6/1 winners in a match up was a more deserved winner than the guy with just one winner @ 20/1 and two others tailed off. Essentially players are simply trying to nominate the winner/best possible placing in each leg regardless of the S.P. Think of it as three individual arm wrestles Laugh On the other hand Mully, is the guy who has selected the three shortest priced runners of the day at 1/4, 2/7 and 4/11 better than the one who has found a 20/1 winner and two losers? |
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"and the thinking is that a player can fluke a big price in what is such a short format of only 3 races"
UD I'm surprised at you!! So your big priced winners are just flukes? A 20/1 winner, imo, is no more flukey than 3 6/1 winners if the bookies have got their prices right and probably takes even more effort to find. It also takes a lot more courage to go for those 20/1 shots against someone who you KNOW will go for shorties....... Just my opinion............ |
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I'll be amazed if this doesn't turn in to a shortie fest. Why would I go for 10/1 shots when I'll get the same reward as an Even money winner, which are so much easier to find (allegedly)?
Not being obstructive, just putting across the views of a non shortie contestant!!! |
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Salmon Spray has been installed as the bookies ante post fav to win this already
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Hopefully you'll give us all a chance by picking the three most open handicaps UD
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Dessie, what I think undecided is saying -
we're all a bunch of guessers and if any of us come up with a 20-1 winning poke, we've obviously fluked it! I suppose in the 'real world' - if we had £1 to stake on 3 races, the guy with 3 6-1 winners would be +18 and the guy with the one 20-1 winner would also +18. So on those lines of thinking, the guy with the 3 6-1 pokes would not be the more deserved winner. It's just a bit of fun and I don't mind what the rules are tbh, but the 'flaw', imo, is that there is no incentive (other than for one's own punting, obviously) to try and dig one out at a price. And as about 1 in 3 favs win, the % call is to get in first and put up the 3 favs. Imo, and I realise this may be too much work, but each contestant should be given a mythical £300 bank (£100 / race) to spread over the 3 races, with EW betting allowed. I favour this way because it makes it a more 'realistic' punting scenario. You've got your £100 / race and it's up to the contestant to make the most of it. |
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*One selection per race / permitted.
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Yes at the end of the day its a comp that we, the competitors, have to play as we see fit, under the rules of the comp.
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It's an interesting format. Haven't really had time to read all this and digest it.
The thing which strikes me immediately though is the rule about duplicate selections. I would always want to wait until about lunchtime on the day of the race before making a selection in case there are changes in the going. So my opponent would always have an excellent chance of posting first. You have no choice about which 3 races to go for, which is fine, but I could do all the hard work of picking the potential winner only to find that my opponent got there first. So in a competition to decide the best tipster, I'm suddenly not allowed to tip the horse which I think will win! That seems a major flaw. No idea what the answer is though.  |
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Format seems fine to me
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Better count me out ud - i didnt realise it was a mainly jumps comp - not got a clue where twig hoppers are concerned -= have a good christmas & many thanks for running the team comp . cheers
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me and bally2711 will be in
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Do you ever wish you hadn't started something?
No seriously, I do like feedback, even if I'm not able to please everyone I still take into account opinions. DeSSie, yes, more than most on here I have no time for odds-on/shorties BUT if I only had one pick and my livelihood depended on it, I'm going to be concentrating on what's the winner, not what's value. So in a 3 or 4 race restricted choice competition, I think it's fair enough to leave the sp aside, make it more of an A v B thing. Yes the races will be the big handicaps or listed races emphasis on quality and size of field. momm - I think that it's better to have all 3 races in running so to speak, rather than allowing duplicates and effectively losing a third or more of the match. If someone has the strategy to post first, well they maybe have to forego any information that comes to hand after that point whereas those who leave it later run the risk of their first pick being claimed. salmon - thank you werbie - fair enough, see you for next year's comp hopefully. |
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I think if the races are going to be the best handicaps of the day UD thats should deal with the shortie equation. Can I reiterate I'm happy to participate whichever format you use as with NH racing my white flag will be held up early doors I think unless I "fluke" three 20/1 winners
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DeSSie, yes, more than most on here I have no time for odds-on/shorties BUT if I only had one pick and my livelihood depended on it, I'm going to be concentrating on what's the winner, not what's value.
But our livelihoods don't depend on it . Salmon Spray might have tipped about 100 more winners than Josh Monk this year but he ain't gonna be topping that 12 monthly rolling table!Shirley any tipping contest has to take into account SP, IMO! |
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One of these days GEORGE
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Salmon the truth hurts
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Yes George ok but it's one thing a 12 month rolling comp with endless number of races to average things out, and another thing a short format 3 race sudden death.
and don't call me Shirley I'll reiterate that I haven't run this type of comp before, and am largely bowing to Mully's experience for this format, and I suspect simplicity of calculating results does enter the argument for it too! I wouldn't be in the slightest offended if you or anyone else wanted to take over this comp and run it how they see fit, I do too much here anyway (I do love it though ) |
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I believe you may well, ss - if you can persuade ud to change the rules to the most winners tipped!
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UD do it as YOU see fit......(but you did ask for opinions etc
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I do tip long ones from time to time. One of these days one of them will win.
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I'm happy to leave it in your expert hands, undecided...only the next time you say - if anyone has suggestions I'm happy to consider
I'll know that means - you can suggest all you like but I ain't changing a fecking thing, and if you're not happy, run the fecking comp yaself Only joking, ud. I'm looking forward to tipping 3 favs and going out in the first round |
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George, I know, I appreciate what you are saying, thank you.
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Yes please
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Yes please
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Some very valid points made
- a competition based on Winners/placings OR SP bonus based - level stakes OR 100 points to spend three very open races should help negate most points & simplify its operation quite happy with whatever the outcome, 'The Settlers Decision' has my vote, he has ALL the effort its just a question of adjusting your play to the Rules Undecided has always been willing to promote/encourage fine tuning for continued entertainment |
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UD- Count me in if there is a space going , cc .
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Count me in, UD
thanks |
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stewpot, thanks for the comments.
cc, as a fellow organizer I was going to ask you anyway, space permitting, I'm sure there will be. |