Advice on buying physical gold

Baird and co a good first port of call.

Also, have you thought about storage costs?  Maybe a Gold ETF is a wayt forward, just google "Physical Gold ETFs" and have a read.

If you are a gold bull, then you should also consider silver imo.

Thanks Barza. I have come across Baird and co when looking into things and also a company called bullionbypost.

Lets say i was to buy £10,000 worth any ideas what value gold or silver coins or even bars i should buy. I notice the new britannia coins for 2013 are 999.9 but many of the other coins are around 9100. Is this something to consider or is it already factored into the sale price.

Should i possibly consider 1/2 oz coins too. I really dont know where to start. Have googled a few things but it would seem better to get some advice from someone who has experience of buying gold.

Any thoughts appreciated.

To be honest, I could really only comment on the underlying price of Gold and Silver which I believe will certainly remain strong considering the huge debasement taking place worldwide with central governments printing their own currencies.

If they underlying price stays bid, then obviously your coins will rise in value.

Sorry I cannot help more on the actual viabilty of certain coins.. personally I would just buy a Gold ETF.  Ticker PHAU my favoured one.

Paddletoe

Have sent you a private message.

Thanks Gin.

I read another thread on here where money tree was asking something similar and my reason for buying some gold would be the same.

I am not as pessimistic as some commentators who believe financial meltdown is coming sooner than later ( i think the wealthy have too much to lose ) but all the same i would like some assets put aside other than money.

From Moneyweek:



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"I am not as pessimistic as some commentators who believe financial meltdown is coming sooner than later ( i think the wealthy have too much to lose ) but all the same i would like some assets put aside other than money."


Then, I can't think of a single reason why you'd want to own gold.

Why would you want to own an asset whose price is now strictly (and blatantly) determined by what central banks want it to be? And you don't need me to tell you, they don't want it going higher. Unless of course you think that dumping 40,000 contracts on thinly trading market in the span of 30 seconds and gold getting hammered since Bernanke told us he intends to print $32,793 EVERY SECOND FOREVER (while every other major central bank is virtually taking turns doing essentially the same thing) is an act of God.

I have no idea why you are getting back responses about gold ETFs when you specifically asked for advice on buying PHYSICAL gold, but just in case you are considering it, DO NOT. I could write a long post about all the issues with gold ETFs but I'm not in the mood. Research it on your own. But I will just cut to the chase and say, one more time with feeling,......when the time comes, those who thought they owned gold will find out the hard way that......IF YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT, YOU DON'T OWN IT.

Thanks Gin for taking the time to post those articles. I am however only interested in physical gold.

My statement about not being as pessimistic as some commentators....I read your posts on another thread Melanus when you put forward the view that the whole financial markets are one big pyramid scheme. I am not qualified nearly enough to debate much of what you said but i am quite pessimistic about the future. So buying some gold is an each way bet. If economies over the world recover then great. I dont mind losing some value in gold prices if thats the case. I just want some insurance for other eventualities and the fact i wish to buy some gold shows that i think its possible a collapse of the financial markets is possible.

One thing i dont hear many people talking about is the elephant in the room that is people will live a lot longer in the future and that is going to have a big impact on economic productivity, resources and health care.

I have been buying gold and silver for a few years and have bought from many different dealers as they seem to have offers at different times.

Have quite a mixed bag of stuff as felt it best to vary. Main purchases at the min though are 2013 britannias. I have to say that as far as a financial meltdown I'm on the middle ground I do feel we are at some point going to have to address the cost of our welfare state but as and when who knows.

One thing I have found is that huge price difference between .999 coins and .925 sterling coins so have purchased a few of them.

Also in the process of setting up a refining system as have a few kg of scrap.

Hi Beer, what in your opinion would be the best coins to buy to begin. Silver or gold.

Just going on looks i like the american liberty 1 oz coin as it has a very classic and iconic face.

Joined:
24 Jul 07
| Topic/replies: 3,190 | Blogger: paddletoe's blog
Thanks Gin for taking the time to post those articles. I am however only interested in physical gold.


I don't understand your comment? The first two articlea are about physical gold, different types and where to buy it which is what your original post asked.

I posted the third bit about ETF's as it basically gives reasons not to buy them if you are looking for longish term holdings (which I believe you are)?

Sorry Gin if i sounded unappreciative. The articles were very helpful. I was just highlighting the fact i was interested in physical gold as you also made reference to ETF in a previous post.

I would not want to put a whole lot of money into gold. Just convert a small percentage of paper money into gold or silver.

I know gold rises in value when paper money becomes less valuable but i dont follow the doomsday argument that gold continues to rise in value in the worst case scenario if financial markets collapse.

Money becomes LESS VALUABLE in relation to what? In relation to another currency? In relation to the price of a loaf of bread? Because if the answer is in relation to gold, then your argument contains a healthy dose of circular reasoning.

It's admirable that you want to convert some of your wealth in gold, even more admirable that you are interested in doing it by buying physical BUT, and I mean no disrespect by this, I'm not convinced you understand the real reasons why gold should be your asset of choice.

What i meant was in an extreme financial collapse where money is worthless gold would obviously rise in value. But its not a bet any gold owner would want to win. To get into that situation its probably there would be little law and order. Taken to its extreme i would not fancy walking around with gold chains around my neck as its value would be secondary to your personal safety. Having some gold tucked away would be good but i dont see the logic in stock piling gold for such a eventuality where the whole paper money market collapses.

What is gold now? £1100 an ounce. What i mean is anyone holding gold does not want its value ( not price ) to go beyond a certain point because to get to that point there is not going to be a good trade off. You may be better off relative to other people in such a situation but you would still be worse off than you are today when your gold was valued at less.

Money becomes LESS VALUABLE in relation to what Yes, i meant in relation to gold. But you mentioned bread Melanus and my point was that taken to an extreme gold would not be measured against paper money as there would be none but in relation to other things such as food, guns, fuel and yes bread. A kilo bar of gold would be hard to use as currency and dangerous to own.

I never said I am hoping for a system collapse, I assure you I am fully aware of the dire consequences. But I'm also better aware than the average person that today's fractional reserve monetary system has an end date, it's a mathematical certainty. So, when that day comes, I will be far better prepared than those who have absolute faith in the system and don't understand the power of exponents. The events that have been unfolding since this crisis begun five years ago lead me to believe that the end date is not that far off. And all the wishing in the world can't change that. That's my reason for buying gold. I wish you luck with your gold purchase although the reasons why you are buying gold are still very fuzzy to me.

Because if you think a total collapse is a long shot, why would you want to have your money in gold when the FED is telling you the price will not be allowed to go anywhere as long as central banks are in control?

You don't have to answer that, it was only intended to get you to think. 

Gold is an "end game" play, I can think of a lot better ways to put my money at work if I believed in a different end.

I was  posting and didn't see your last post.

I'm fully aware that you can't eat gold but I'm also aware of history. Gold has been accepted as money ever since man started walking the steppes erect so anything you need can be acquired even in times of social breakdown and turmoil. History has lots of examples of that. Not in kilo bars, those are for wealth preservation not barter, but smaller weight coins and wafers.

Do you know what US fighter pilots carry with them as part of their survival kit in case they are downed behind enemy lines?

Half ounce Eagles.

I'll let you join the dots and figure out why on your own.

One final point.

Your biggest enemy as a gold owner in case of a meltdown will not be thieves and burglars. It will be the biggest criminals of them all, your government and central bankers.

I have read a lot of your posts Melanus and you seem to have a lot of detractors. I think a lot of that has to do with your style rather than substance. Although i am no great economics mind i agree with a lot of what you say.

However, the economic argument about money is one thing. But i am not sure it will bring down everything. Its human nature that when you have something you dont want to lose it but if the aleterntive is worse people will settle for less.

Lets say the while financial system did collapse as we know it. People would still be better off than they were 200 years ago. There have been so many advances over the past century in what mankind can do and that will not be lost.

If the financial system as we know it did collapse i think a more socialist way of life and a more even distribution of wealth and resources is more likely than a mad max type world.

I would like to have a little bit of small gold and silver coins if that does happen. I dont see the need for any more than that for a lot of reasons. I dont see the point in stocking up on gold for something which not only might not happen but which you would not want to happen. And, even if it did i can think of lots of reasons why one person having a lot of gold might not be a good thing.

Stands to sense that if the all time world economy is looked at like a graph there must be some point where it peaks. Maybe it has already happened. With populations increasing, people living longer and resources diminishing there must be a time when the top of the graph is reached. Infact my own view is that it peaked in post war america.

You're right about my style. I don't give many a pass on here when they post nonsense and that irritates my many "fans".

I've shared some thoughts with you but we are at a point where we seem to be going around in circles. Buy gold for whatever reason you think makes sense, after all it's your money.

Good luck.

Thanks for taking the time to reply Melanus. I am definately a follower of your economics. Although i think a long term break up of society does not follow from a collapse of the financial system.

I will be buying some gold and silver coins. Just enough to get by for the first few weeks of a total meltdown! Always liked the old western series alias smith and jones where one of them kept a hundred dollar note inside his trouser stitching for emergencies!

So think i will settle for a small ammount of gold eagles and britania coins. I will get 2011 issues, the year my little boy was born and put them away in a wee box for him. Happy enough with that.

Thanks again for your time Melanus and also everyone else who has posted.

P.S. No one did answer me directly what value and types of gold and silver coins i should get for lets say £10,000. I would like at least one 1oz liberty/eagle usa gold coin for no other reason than i like the face of it.

I dont want to take up too much of your time Melanus but if you were on a budget of £10,000 what exact coins would you get. Happy to go along with your advice if its not too much trouble to let me know.

I would have to say that I got he britannias as liked the design so not the best reason but they are for my daughter so they are tucked away for her.

If you are holding the coins In case of a financial meltdown I personally would just buy the best value you can get as if the uk is in the **** I can't see many people being fussy. Gold is gold. Silver is silver.

The first silver coins I dd buy we're rolls of silver eagles you can buy them online.

British Britannias, American Buffalos, Canadian Maples & Australian Kangaroos, in no particular preference. It will come down to what you can find. All are out of good mints, with great looking designs (not that it makes an iota of difference in price or why you are buying but they may as well look pretty) and 9999 purity. Some older issues are only 999 but just as good and trade for the same money as the 9999s. Avoid the 22 ct Krugerrands and American Eagles and also anything coming out of a China mill, but that's just me. 

The mints sell these coins to wholesalers at a 3pc premium, they in turn tag another 1/2 a point on when they pass them off to the retailers. The retailers expect to make anywhere between 1.5pc to 3.5pc profit depending on the number of coins purchased and how hot the hype is around "buy gold" at the time. It all means that you will be expected to pay 5-7pc over spot price. Only buy from a reputable retailer, preferably someone that you've established a relationship with if you are a repeat buyer.

Never forget to ask if the coins have been run through a gold coin balance before you purchase, and if you really want to throw them off, ask if they have been ultra sound tested. Of course none of them are (they don't need to be actually, that's for larger bars) but he'll wonder how you knew that in the first place.

Also, since you posted that you want "just enough to get by for the first few weeks of a total meltdown", I would consider silver coins as well (American Eagles or Canadian Maples are really good). They will be a far better barter item than gold and I believe silver has a lot more upside than gold as an investment opportunity anyways.

Good luck.

I'm not sure many agree with melly but he is spot on with most info. I am heavier with silver than gold and intend to stay that way.
It's all purchased as a long term plan so won't be selling in a rush. Consider how you will store it. I have a couple of safes in the house in very tucked away spots but also put one as a decoy in a much easier place to find.

As far as the uk economy and financial system goes I think it's Brocken and no one will be able to fix it. I don't expect to be collecting a state pension in 30 years time so have made other investments.

Just a quick update. Bought some silver eagles 1 oz coins. Have to say the look very nice asthetically speaking over and above any value although on the other hand i guess sometimes asthetics is related to value. Nice that you can get these coins in their original isa mint tubes. There does seem a big mark up on silver coins over the silver spot price. Cheapest 1 oz silver eagles in could find were around £27 each.
I see the silver eagles and maples also come in monster boxes of 500 but i think i will stick to the rolls of 20 and 25 in their mint tubes.
Regarding silver coins i am a bit put off by reading all silver deteriorates over time. Will this greatly affect value. I got one 20 roll tube of silver eagles dated 2003 and they are in mint condition. I guess they were preserved by the fact they had never been out of their tubes until i got them.
Again asthetically speaking i really like the mexican libertad silver coins. I ordered a few singles of them just because i like them.

Still looking at gold coins. Love the look of the american eagle and bufallo so i expect when i get those i will be going all koochy koochy koo when i have a look at them every now and again.
Would like to get some smaller fraction gold coins but they are priced a lot more over spot.

Any more advice welcome.

I see it and its only my opinion that you are buying over spot as a gamble on the spot price going up.

As a side I have been buying scrap silver to refine (was going to pay to have it reined but may try it myself in summer) and one bargain is .925 coins. They are not as attractive or collectible as the.999 ones so have no worries bunging hem in acid :-)

I am not buying silver coins as a gamble on the spot price going up. Its just the cheapest silver coins i can find any dealer in the uk selling for is around £27. I think you can get in the usa for around £20 as they have no vat.

I have quite a bit of cash sitting in the bank at the moment so i would like a small percentage of assets in something more tangible if things go pete tong.

I would not be looking to see silver and gold go to the moon in price as it would mean any paper money in the bank might not be worth two balls of blue.

I am just looking some tangible insurance against the financial markets blowing up.

With some questions there seems no answers just more questions. Like i would be surprised if i knew a single person who recognised a silver eagle dollar coin so i am wondering if it would be readily used in a worse case scenario.

At least the small number of coins i have picked up so far look pretty! Anyway, i always wanted to to get some coins of value to tuck away for my little boy. Krugerrand and american buffalo gold coins will make nice keepsakes for him to have.

No the you was just a general comment I did not mean you personally.

Also how much insurance do you need? If you think economy will blow up then surely you need lots.

After a lot of browsing online i have finally found a few suppliers at more competitive prices. A small firm called atkinson jewellers for gold coins at very good prices and the guernsey mint for silver coins at around £20 an ounce.

Regarding the useabilty of gold and silver in the unlikely worst case scenario of living like mad max ( not that i think this will ever happen ) but if you did have to barter with silver and especially gold then this barter system would be reliant on the other person knowing your coins were authentic and their value. Dont think a person selling eggs would know the difference between a real and fake coin and thats where the problem would lie.

I would research hyperinflation more before buying then as it may help.