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Eeternaloptimist
07 Jul 12 15:37
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Replies: 68
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 07 Jul 12 15:38
Apparently they do them in inflation as well as water now. I think somebody is trying to extend the brand.
By:
Menelaus
When: 07 Jul 12 15:57
It's time you give up because your are starting to sound and behave like a complete lunatic. So you thought you were a "big" man because you are the tallest Lilliputian. Then you looked up………..and you're still in shock.

You went way back and found some posts of mine, lifted specific lines that suit you while ignoring countless others, and now you are throwing temper tantrums because I'm not taking the bait.

What I said was that the inflation was are seeing now, which is multiples higher than what's officially reported by the government (even though clearly you don't even know how they actually come up with that number), is leakage. Driven by speculation into commodities with money the CBs handed over to the banks in exchange for worthless paper. The tsunami of inflation is still sitting with bank excess reserves on the CBs balance sheets, which they can't rein in when they have to because they can't raise interest rates without governments, and just about everyone else blowing up. You know when Bernanke said he can rein in inflation in 15 minutes, well, he lied.

You're in way over your head. Your knowledge in the area where I make my living is anecdotal. It shows, despite the colorful language and the never ending parade of strawmen. You are probably a retired school teacher, who reads this stuff without the background and tools to understand it, and who wonders where it all went wrong when you can't even afford to take a short trip to London to learn something new. You are no barrister either because when I laid down the test of the reasonable man, which is a well established legal principle, it went right over your head.

There are Gullivers out there. Get over it.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 07 Jul 12 19:10
I didn't have to go way back. I just went to the hyperinflation thread and quoted you to avoid you making accusations. It was a specific point you made that there would be a tsunami of inflation within 3-6 months. The tsunami was guaranteed by you.

Now I'm a fair and honest man and as I have indicated previously I think there is a good chance that the argument and reasons given in your third paragraph may come to fruition. Which is why I have hedged my bets as I have previously indicated as I believe any sensible man would.

All I'm asking is whether your prediction was incorrect and whether you now accept you were wrong?

Didn't your basic psy-ops teach you about the cycle of grieving? You seem to be oscillating between denial and anger. It does happen. Stick with me kid. I'll get you through.
By:
Mrben
When: 08 Jul 12 03:44
melly- come on. That is one of your most absurd posts yet.Talk about desperate.

'What I said was that the inflation was are seeing now, which is multiples higher than what's officially reported by the government (even though clearly you don't even know how they actually come up with that number), is leakage. "

oh yeah trot out the ols conspiracy theory.Problem is when inflation hit 4,5% you were crowing about how "high" inflation was and "see I was right,hyperinflation is nigh", thus taking the numbers as being "right" Yet when those same number fall to a low 1.5- all of a sudden its a conspiracy and "they" are lying.

Ludicrious.  You could drive a truck thru your arguments and not touch the sides.


"The tsunami of inflation is still sitting with bank excess reserves on the CBs balance sheets,"


possibly the most desperate post ever.

"its hidden, no one can see it, just me the mighty melly"CrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazyCrazy


"
You're in way over your head. Your knowledge in the area where I make my living is anecdotal."

I think most of us here are familiar with how the welfare system works.Silly

"It's time you give up because your are starting to sound and behave like a complete lunatic. So you thought you were a "big" man because you are the tallest Lilliputian. Then you looked up………..and you're still in shock. "

another fruedian slip by you, this describes yourself to a T.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 08 Jul 12 11:55
"The tsunami of inflation is still sitting with bank excess reserves on the CBs balance sheets,"

Just for a minute lets assume that Melly is right. Obviously this wasn't in the script but this tsunami of inflation didn't arise because it is sat on the balance sheets.

Which begs two questions:

Firstly. Why didn't he see that as a possibility at the time he was making his prediction? Surely his mathematical certainty formula would have looked at it and discounted it for a very specific reason. What reason or if he neglected to look at it what else might he have overlooked?

If it can be sat there a couple of years after Melly thought it would be washing over us is it inconceivable that it could still be sat there in another two years or five, ten etc?
By:
Menelaus
When: 08 Jul 12 13:53
Let me help you heal.

More than half a lifetime ago, I was recruited by the chaps in shinny armor to do some specific noble work in protecting Her Majesty the Queen's people from the evil doers. Only back in those days, the evil doers didn't speak Arabic, those spoke Slavic. That's where I got a crash course in everything to do in manipulating the mind. I learned about the works of Watson, Tolman, Maslow, Skinner, Kaplan and many others, and of course my personal favourite, the chap who got dogs to salivate at the sound of the bell without any food in sight, Pavlov.

It was all fun and games for a while trying to manipulate perceptions (unless you thought the "messages" broadcast by BBC World behind the iron curtain were written by some underpaid and disgruntled back room employee) but one morning I woke up an adult and came to realize that the line between the good guys and the evils doers was very blurred indeed. So I left and went on to do what I was destined to do, get a degree in Economics from the LSE. My experience and tenure in pay-ops was over but it was to come in handy many years later in taking to school mugs like you on public forums who fancy themselves smart. I threw four different persona at you, no wonder you were starting to behave like a lunatic, not knowing which shadow to chase first.

At the LSE, I learned about the Keynesians and the Austrians, the schools of economics you kept regurgitating on here and insisted in pigeon holing me in because in your simple mind there is a "white" box and a "black" box that everything must fit in, not realizing that in real life the predominant colour is grey. You kept calling me a Mises disciple. Friedman talked about the tendency of both the public and private sectors, more so the public, to waste capital. Mises talked about intervention in the markets in any manner, destroys the markets themselves and that misallocation of capital has an opportunity cost. Was Friedman a Mises disciple? All schools have some valid points, and none have all the answers. If you must know, If I absolutely positively have to be slotted into a school otherwise your world is meaningless, I'm a disciple of Selten and his school of behavioural economics. Someone who didn't even get a mention from you because he is not very mainstream and probably not covered in that article you read in your favourite magazine.

You are at Stage 3 (anger) of the healing process now. You need to reach Stage 7 (acceptance) to heal. And the sooner you get there, the better for you it will be. The harm is only in your mind. You are posting anonymously on a public forum. No one knows who the real person behind the moniker Eeternaloptimist really is, no one probably cares, certainly not I. Instead of lamenting how you could be so stupid to allow someone to manipulate and embarrass you like that, accept you made a mistake and move on. Make it a learning experience and make sure you don't fall in the same trap again in the future.

It's totally up to you.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 08 Jul 12 15:18
Therein lies your problem. You learned so much so late that there wasn't time left to develop adaptability. You should have paid more attention in school.

Physician heal thyself.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 08 Jul 12 15:20
By the way if you are using the 7 stage process of grief rather than the 5 then acceptance is accompanied by hope. Something you seem to have abandoned. Probably with good reason.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 11:32
I think I saw something approaching a tsunami on the TV last immediately following the tennis. All those tears. Poor boy. For some reason it put me in mind of Melly on an average trading day.
By:
polybot
When: 09 Jul 12 11:48
from my limited understanding of tennis, that british bloke is a multi millionaire whether he wins  some game at wimbledon or not, it's only the gamblers or the truly pathetic bbc commentator types who could care less. melly on the other hand has a genuine reason to weep.
By:
Menelaus
When: 09 Jul 12 13:03
You slipped back into the Stage 1 (denial), regressing is actually very common. You have a long way to go until you heal, those who have big egos crushed usually take a lot longer. You are a bright guy, you'll figure it all out in the end.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 13:19
We can finally fully agree on something. Your ego is going to take an interminable amount of time to recover. Always remember that the beginning of the rope breaking commences with the unravelling of the first strand. There was no tsunami. You are doomed and it will be a long way back.

When you have finally recovered try to hold this thought in mind:

A strong intellect knows that to strategically concede a piece to save the game isn't a sign of weakness.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 13:22
By the way I'd repay the kind words but as yet your lack of flexibility badly hinders your intellect. You have promise because you can clearly absorb and store information. Try to hang onto my coat tails and I will take you to the next level of your intellectual development. Enlightenment is beautiful. You should look forward to it Wink
By:
Menelaus
When: 09 Jul 12 14:45
I keep ringing the bell, and you keep salivating.

The problem with you is that I managed your emotions to such an extend, that you can't distinguish what's baiting you, and what's real.

Trust me mate, I never would have gone down this road if I knew you'd be mentally affected so much. I'm a mean b@stard, but I assure you I'm not *that* mean.









Wake up call:

How many times have you posted on this forum up until about a couple of months ago? (HINT: hardly ever to zero)

How many times have you posted since? (HINT: hundreds)

How many posts do you put up for every one that I do now? (HINT: I reckon at least 5 to 1 ratio)

What invisible force has changed your behaviour? (No hint on this one, if you can't figure this one out on your own, then you're dumber than I thought - no sarcasm this time).


Seriously mate, it's consuming you, you have to get over it. Love
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 19:48
You can run but you can't hide. Wink
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 19:50
By the way there is no invisible force. I've destroyed several gobshiites over on the politics forum as well.
By:
Menelaus
When: 09 Jul 12 20:05
I have news for you. This isn't the politics forum, and I don't write or think in one syllable gibberish. The only thing I see getting destroyed here is your mind.......slowly but surely.........

.........while you are still soundly asleep.



Wake up call:

How many times have you posted on this forum up until about a couple of months ago? (HINT: hardly ever to zero)

How many times have you posted since? (HINT: hundreds)

How many posts do you put up for every one that I do now? (HINT: I reckon at least 5 to 1 ratio)

What invisible force has changed your behaviour? (No hint on this one, if you can't figure this one out on your own, then you're dumber than I thought - no sarcasm this time).
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 20:30
That was quick. I think you are getting the hang of this dancing lark. Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Wink
By:
Menelaus
When: 09 Jul 12 20:40
Knocking down that strawman must have felt good, eh?

Too bad you are not any less angry. Wink
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 23:44
Didn't you once decry fluff and no substance?

You are collecting quite a resumee of nothing posts. I'll tell you what, if they ever make a book of the best forum posts they can devote a whole chapter to your invaluable efforts in the same way that a famous footballer once did to the football knowledge of chairmen.

It will amount to one blank page.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 09 Jul 12 23:53
I always wondered why MP's in the commons wave their white papers anf shout more when their man has pasted his opposite number. Now I know.
By:
Menelaus
When: 10 Jul 12 06:37
You are collecting quite a resumee of nothing posts

I don't have the faintest what a "resumee" is but.......I love the smell of sweet irony in the morning.

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
Mrben
When: 10 Jul 12 07:32
and you have'nt the faintest about anything else either.Dumb shilt.
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 10 Jul 12 07:48
EO
As you have seemingly assumed the ( much needed and about time) counterpoint role to Menelaus' kneecapping of any and all reasonable questioners/hyperinflation doubters on here, I would now like to ask you the following ( dumb?) economic question.
If and when a currency hyperinflates, it presumably has to inflate against some other benchmark stable currency. Correct ?
Eg In the classic Weimar example the mark went from something like 4 to 1 to 460 billion to 1 against the dollar.
What then is going to be the stable benchmark currency to Menelaus' predicted hyperinflation of apparently all the world's major currencies ? The dollar, the pound, the Euro are all in the same boat of financial disaster . Surely not the Chinese yuan ? ( after all they own so much of the US debt, wouldn't they would go into a downward spiral themselves ).
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 10 Jul 12 12:12
FineAs

As I have previously stated I'm not an economist. If I have a talent which is debatable Laugh it is primarily the appliance of logic to a connundrum and the fearless ability to challenge bullshiit.

By the way I'm not suggesting that of you. Within your question is what appears two mutually exclusive questions. I don't think it is possible to assert both that they have to inflate against a currency but also have a prediction that all the worlds major currencies are in the same boat.

As Sherlock Holmes said if we exlcude what isn't possible then whatever is left has to be the case irrespective of how unlikely (or something like that).

So either Melly is right or wrong. If he is wrong then no worries. If he is right then logic would say that there will be hyperinflation of all currencies with the good beign dragged after the bad into the black hole. In which case we are in a new paradigm (or one with which I am unfamiliar). All fiat currency systems have eventually failed and so I presume that the answer is to be found within that statement. Value within the countries must have been retained in and of something as it would in Outer Mongolia or wherever else that particular currency was collapsing So I think the same logic has to be applied here. Given approximate ewqual values if at that time a goat could have been swapped for a lamb then I think that is your answer. It isn certainly how I have ordered my hedge.

In short my suggestion is that fiat currency is only one medium of exchange valid for a period of time. The tangibles will retain their store of value so the currencies will hyperinflate against those tangibles.

Only my opinion.

Gotta rush but I'd be happy to flesh this out later if it helps.
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 10 Jul 12 12:58
Thanks ( I think ).
So if I read you right, you're saying that Menelaus is predicting that the whole world effectively hyperinflates simultaneously into some sort of black hole, where only tangible commodities rule ?
Has this ever happened before, that is every meaningful currency in the world goes into the hyperinflation stratosphere simultaneously ?
Would it in reality mean that before this happens, those countries whose economies are less blighted than others would revert to some localised form of non fiat currencies before it is too late to do so ?
Btw you say this economics lark is all just about common sense , but when I start to think about black holes whether it be in this context or the physics one, my mind starts to implode.
Boy am I glad we have the Menelaus(s) of the world to sort all this out for us. What would we do without them all ?
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 10 Jul 12 13:08
Buy the Canadian Dollar then as a major hedge ?.
Its banks are rated the best in the world, has avoided pretty much all of the current credit related problems, has lots of commodities in the ground.
Too obvious ?
By:
Menelaus
When: 10 Jul 12 15:05
It's not debatable, It's laughable.

All the logic in the world won't help me understand the quantum mechanics behind the Higgs boson discovery because I just don't have the necessary educational background and tools to understand it. Furthermore, pretending that I do understand it, just be reading some broad brush published article on the subject, makes any conclusions I arrive at dangerous. Sometimes it's just better to be totally blind than half-blind. At least a blind man won't attempt to fly a jet airplane and inevitably crash and burn.

You're trying too hard, with the same bullsh1t you claim you challenge, to argue things that are outside of your area of knowledge. This not only makes you massively ignorant, but a hell of a hypocrite as well.

ALL FLUFF AND NO SUBSTANCE, the verdict still stands.


As for the rest of it, I can only deduce the question asked, or point raised by BOTTY, by reading the response to it. If the USD fails, every other fiat currency fails at the very same instant. Anyone who doesn't understand that, just doesn't understand what a global reserve currency really does or what it is.
By:
Menelaus
When: 10 Jul 12 15:06
be=by
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 10 Jul 12 16:16
Surely a typo by Menelaus.
He actually uses the word " if " and not " when ".
"--- If the USD fails----- ".
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 10 Jul 12 19:21
FineAs

He is doing it increasingly. Must be cracking under the pressure I'm exerting. Wait while I really start to squeeze him. Laugh
By:
Menelaus
When: 10 Jul 12 20:55
Just as I was thinking you may be slowly getting out of the anger phase and traveling towards acceptance, you go and post this.

You need to try harder.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 10 Jul 12 22:11
FineAs

Clearly Melly's desperation to be noticed has overidden his manners resulting in him forcing his way into our conversation with the usual results. As a side issue I think that he is mistaken because there isn't just one reserve currency. There are a series of reserve currencies including sterling, euro, yen etc with the dollar being the main one.

In my view you are asking some very pertinent questions.

So if I read you right, you're saying that Menelaus is predicting that the whole world effectively hyperinflates simultaneously into some sort of black hole?

I'll come back to the tangibles which I have deleted from that quote but I don't think it would happen simultaneously but relatively quickly with the europeans, Japanese etc reacting to events in America and in particular the rapid depreciation of their own currencies and an accelerating race to the bottom.

Has this ever happened before, that is every meaningful currency in the world goes into the hyperinflation stratosphere simultaneously ?

I'm pretty sure it hasn't. Which is one of the reasons why guesser Melly is a fool with his complete certainties.

where only tangible commodities rule .............Would it in reality mean that before this happens, those countries whose economies are less blighted than others would revert to some localised form of non fiat currencies before it is too late to do so ?

I split these and then joined them together because here we get to the knub of the issue and again we fall back on common sense. Diversifying is the name of the game. My guess is that one of two things would be likely to occur. Either what you say may happen with some localised currencies being maintained either in non fiat or disciplined fiat form. Alternatively it could go to the opposite end. Is it so inconceivable that everybody gets together and institutes a world currency either again non fiat or fiat?

In the meantime what do you do?

I'm not qualified to tell you. Honestly? Nobody is because nobody knows for sure. Sadly, even melly. Laugh Especially Melly. I would say what you do depends on what you have to lose. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Money held in a variety of currencies in countries which are currently showing relative discipline but also which have raw materials. As you say, Canada, Norway, Australia, Sweden and possibly Switzerland given its reputation.

It's still paper though. As I said diversify. If you've got nothing then I'd say get an allotment and familiarise yourself with self sufficiency. I know you've got plenty though. Wink If you've got plenty then maybe buy a farm or buy agricultural land, have some tangibles like fine wine, top class single malt, fine furniture, paintings, etc. They don't tend to lose value and you can enjoy them if you want to. Then finally you have hard currencies like gold, platinum and silver which whilst expensive now and possibly subject to fluctuations again provide a hedge.

For myself, I've done much of this and more.

Feel free to ask me anything more. I'm more than happy to give an opinion although I won't claim infallibility.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 10 Jul 12 23:13
FineAs

I think this is an interesting and readable opinion piece on what could happen next if and when the fiat monetary system fails:

http://papermoneycollapse.com/2012/06/the-death-of-banks-and-the-future-of-money/
By:
Menelaus
When: 10 Jul 12 23:58
Not only you're not a step closer to healing, you're descending into madness.

I'm not surprised, those who have their big egos crashed sometimes never heal.

Yeah, you heard right, I said....NEVER.
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 11 Jul 12 02:24
Never has Menelaus spoken a truer word.
If only he would perhaps listen to himself occasionally.
But let's face it, he's under quite a bit of pressure.
He's made a very loud, very public call that the whole world monetary system is CERTAIN to collapse in the relatively near future.
He has seemingly not only committed all his personal wealth to this certitude, but also has placed his whole professional reputation on the line.
Not an easy or comfortable position to be in.
Therefore perhaps we can and should cut him a bit of slack on here, when he goes off the rails and hurls personal abuse at one and sundry.
It must be tough being a genius and not be getting your due.
Also, unless he's not totally immoral, he must surely be secretly hoping that he is wrong on all this, and that the world will not see the destruction and mayhem that such a collapse would inevitably bring.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 11 Jul 12 12:28
FineAs

I respect your view but I don't think we should cut him any slack. You expressed a view that he is dangerous. Those who thought they controlled him cut Hitler slack and look what happened. He has to be exposed for the perisher that he is. This can be done with humour but exposed he must be in my view.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 11 Jul 12 12:31
Besides he has reduced what should be one of the more vibrant of the forums to a virtual wasteland with his shennanigans. He is like one of those rather loud spiv types you occasionally see at the races proclaiming that they have the winner of the next race. They draw a large crowd to them intoxicated by their verbosity and certainty. By the time of the last race he is on his own desperately praying that an outsider will save his hide with all thoughts of his reputation long since vanished.

Which is about where Melly is now. All dignity long since abandoned.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 11 Jul 12 12:33
In fact the more I think about it I do wonder whether this is the natural forum for someone of his unique disposition. He should really be on the football forum shouting FREE MONEY to anyone who will listen.
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