This guy gets it......

You keep coming over my posts each and every time I post.

I don't give a feck on what you have to say and as a result I blocked you. What part of that don't you fecking understand?

You are more qualified to comment on X-factor than the financial crisis. We've been down that road before, and I don't want to repeat wasting my time dealing with, how shall I say....well, the nothingness you kept putting up here. Changing your forum name doesn't change that. Okay BOTTY?

http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=f&oq=bill+gross+pimco&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ACAW_en___AU386&q=bill+gross+pimco&gs_upl=0l0l0l3990lllllllllll0&aqi=g5#q=bill+gross+pimco&hl=en&rlz=1T4ACAW_en___AU386&prmd=imvnslo&source=univ&tbm=vid&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=HlPsT-X9Aofeigf3jPjbBQ&ved=0CIQBEKsE&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=e4c9a6abbf65430d&biw=1536&bih=743


link to dozens and dozens of bill gross appearing on cnbc.

more proof that melly lives alone in "melly world "

a demented moron.

thats it melly - avoid the issue.

your failure to address the issue at hand is an admission you are cornered and beaten- again


suggest you re-google to find other authors supporting your absurd view of the world.

this one has been an epic FAIL.

new thread needed.

take your time

your a coward melly

Whilst I don't pretend to understand economic theory fully, I believe the likes of Bill Gross refer to the Fed reflating the economy and the GDP, but not creating hyperinflation, which Menelaus always refers to.

Nice post bongo.
Not exactly what Menelaus keeps saying all the time though is it ?.

Sorry bongo, but you're offside on this one.

You interpretation of only the debtors having a problem in a "debt crisis" is very narrow. Gross is absolutely correct. The world, both creditor and debtor nations have a huge issue in a debt crisis, not just the US and EEA who are "living massively beyond their means" and they are "the only ones having a debt crisis". Those who have lent them the  money (China, Japan, etc.) and enabled them to live beyond their means (so that they could buy their exports) will also feel the pain, in some ways actually a lot worse than the debtors. When the debtors either default, devalue or impose austerity as part of the deleveraging process, the creditors will be hugely impacted, there's no escape from that. And all that without even mentioning the global interconnectedness of the banking system.

The analysis is indeed simplistic but that's because today's monetary system model is simplistic. The system relies an infinite and expanding growth to pay the coupon or it collapses. It's that simple. That's why when we stop borrowing or default on our loans (bank balance sheet deflation) , the government steps in and borrows on our behalf, whether we like it or not, so that the ponzi can continue. When banks are insolvent, the central banks step in and the accounting rules get changed so the ponzi can continue for a little longer hoping for a miracle to come along. When sovereigns are bankrupt, money is created out of thin air to prolong the ponzi again and so that………zombie banks can live another day. The ECB would violate its mandate if it prints directly like the FED and the BoE so they go through gyrations to get around the legal obstacles but it's still printing none the less. This is the stage we're at now.

Inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing if its organic. More real growth, more money created, more velocity, etc. But not when it's the result of the central bank increasing the money supply for the sole purpose of propping dead banks. Deflation is not necessarily a bad thing either but that's another discussion all together.

Everyone on here keeps looking for the solution. I mean if it's a problem, there's must be a solution. We are wired that way. What everyone fails to see is that this is a predicament without a solution. The system was designed to some day fail from the outset. All ponzis eventually fail.

What Gross didn't mention is that both options of defaulting on bad paper and clearing the system  or more money printing to cover the gapping hole, end up at the same place. Collapse of a monetary system that has now crossed well into Twilight Zone territory.  But the central banks will choose money printing, they always have, they always will. There has NEVER been a single example of a financial or currency collapse because of deflation whereas the road to hyperinflation is littered with hundreds of such examples. This time won't be any different……..and all the "hope" in the universe won't change that.


P.S. In the US, at current spending levels, the debt ceiling will be hit this fall just before the election, not in the summer of 2013.

Menelaus,
         whether you're right or whether you're wrong, that is, sir, one helluva fine post, imo!
Thank you.

Maybe it rings a bell in my aged head or something.
I remember more than forty five years ago, when I was keen to change the world and rid it of its ills, I was involved with a kinda revolutionary Irish workers thing.

And, d'you know what?
We used to say, as a key plank in our anti-capitalist statement,
that the rulers were printing money and causing problems!

Even though I was a hot-headed and passionate believer back then, little did i think that I'd ever see the day
when a similar theory was put forward on a place like this.

Btw, I honestly think that this bit of your approach is right on. What I don't know, however, is where exactly do we go from here?

I can clearly see that the present set up is flawed and unsustainable. Most folk can, if they're honest.

My main worry about the future is that people in general ( including myself) seem just as fkn stupid as we were in my day - and that's despite all the technological advance and spread of so-called education.
I can't see us grasping the nettle and doing something constructive to build a better framework for human activity.

Maybe I'm just a tired and jaded, negative old bstrd, but now that capitalism in the West looks to be tottering to its death, I somehow ain't filled with gladness and joy.

Perhaps things long dreamed about are never quite as good when they seem to be coming true.

There you go, yet another post to add to the pile.

Cue in the climate change conspiracists now I suppose.

FineAs

Turn it on its head. Instead of contemplating which economists disagree with The Great Oz perhaps it would be easier to compile a list of those who agree with him.

I'll start us off:













































































Nope. None found yet.

Come on bongo.
An intelligent guy like you falling unconditionally for this overhyped rant from Menelaus ?
You really have that little faith in all the counter moderate opinions out there being expressed daily by experienced, respected
economists ?
Have they all been bought off in some form or manner ?
Are they all expressing opinions with no theoretical validity ? Are they ALL fools to hold such opinions ?

If it's ok with you EO, I think I'll still go with the moderate camp out there.
There's a problem, we've identified it, we're trying to fix it without bringing the whole financial system crashing down.
Most importantly don't panic, don't overreact.
Not quite trust me I'm a doctor stuff, but along those lines. Perhaps I'm naive and innocent and stupid as Menelaus implies, but it has got me through life so far with a considerable nest egg tucked under my belt ( basically I lucked out tbh). I hope it all doesn't disappear in hyperinflationary smoke. It would be most annoying to have to start all over again at the bottom of the woodpile. I'm afraid to say that I have not kept my skills up to date, not my working ones that is.
The only thing that I know from all this is that we will not have learnt any lessons, and it will all happen again some time down the road. Quite depressing really.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up I would say.

Just cut & paste the most used, abused and misunderstood Mises quote, who by the way has been DEAD for 39 whole years and the word DERIVATIVE wasn't part of the lexicon during his lifetime, and voila just like magic........you can claim you understand the Austrian school of economics.

It's hilarious, if it wasn't so sad.


All fluff and no substance - Menelaus, Now

Menelaus

Clearly you consider yourself something of an expert (on everything). Allowing for its broad church approach it should be no trouble for you to point out how your views disagree with those of Austrian School economists like Mises.

Come on big boy:

A man who knows a thing or two or an empty vessel.

Take your time.

Well there you are.
The chance to meet Menelaus in person.
Too far for me to travel to the UK at the drop of a hat unfortunately.
But I sure would be tempted to attend one of his lectures if I lived in London or nearby.
I wonder if he allows challenges from the floor, or whether is it the usual " just shut up and listen you idiots " type delivery.

Menelaus

If I'm ever down in London I'll certainly do that although like for FineAs it is quite a journey for me. What is your second name by the way?  Not that I'm doubting the veracity of your claim of course.

I don't think I'm invited like you have been EO.
So if you ever do go take a few Austrian wieners with you to lob from the back of the lecture hall,on my behalf, if he starts to get too strident, one eyed and condescending as per usual.

have

"psy-ops"