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07 Dec 11 14:39
Date Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 19,082 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog
I was spooked to read this, courtesy of elisjohn, in the politics forum

bastards, mum banked with them for over 40 years, went in bank one day, pestered to do a will free of charge, mum said oh why not if its free, few years later died, we had a bill off them for something like 7500, ok mum fault for not reading small print, but of course they didnt mention this at the time.

All I can find in the draft of my will is the following:

3. SUBJECT to the payment or discharge of my funeral testamentary and administration expenses debts and other liabilities

Is it normal to incur "final" expenses?

Would appreciate any help.
Pause Switch to Standard View Making a will. Are there any...
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Report wykhamist2 December 7, 2011 5:56 PM GMT
Will making is another example of a typical scam perpetrated on the elderly. Did your mum appoint them as executor? If so they can charge what they like within reason and I have heard of people getting done for tens of thousands on large estates.

I used to have my bank as executor of my will, but then I read of some horror story so got the wills back off them and told them I would not be using them.

If you go to WH Smiths you can buy a DIY will kit but even that is overpriced in my view, something like 25 quid for a few bits of paper. Best thing is to go online and download a proforma will for free. As long as your kids are over 18 the wording should be quite simple. Complications can arise only if, say, both you and your wife die simultaneously in some kind of crash.

Everything seems to be a rip-off these days. Someone told me yesterday that just a cremation costs about 4500.
Report unitedbiscuits December 7, 2011 6:34 PM GMT
Thanks Wykhamist. It was not my mum but elisjohn's, poor chap. But it is time for me to make a will and the draft from the solicitor includes the following

3. SUBJECT to the payment or discharge of my funeral testamentary and administration expenses debts and other liabilities

I have asked them to detail what kind of expenses they may levy on the estate when I pop my clogs but it occurs to me that they could say "none" now yet finally charge what they want using  the above caveat. The solicitors are not to be executors of the will but I should like them to keep it safe and don't mind paying a small annual fee for that, I just would not wish my family to get stung like poor elisjohn. Can't find clarification from directgov..
Report wykhamist2 December 7, 2011 7:17 PM GMT
I should have mentioned that the reason having kids over 18 is significant is that you can do your own will then appoint one of your kids, providing they are not completely half-witted, as the executor. If they need to they can always seek legal advice from a solicitor at the time. My point is that if you give any bank or solicitor a carte blanche to charge what they like in 'administrative expenses' they will no doubt do you for all the time charged at 100 quid an hour or whatever that they can.
Report unitedbiscuits December 8, 2011 12:18 PM GMT
Thanks. Have this from the solicitor,

We make no charge for storing Wills nor is there any obligation for this firm to carry out any work after death.   That duty lies with the Executor.

So I'm happy with that
Report Johnny The Guesser December 8, 2011 3:34 PM GMT
Banks, solicitors etc will usually seek to be appointed executors because this is where the real money can me made.

For an executor to be paid a fee the will must have a clause allowing it.

Providing your affairs are not complicated, dont write a will yourself or use a guy with a stand at your local Asda, you are asking for trouble - Go to a solicitor and pay a couple of hundred quid and do it properly. Get a trusted friend to be the executor - any decent solicitor won't mind this at all.

Read your will every year, checking that it remains up to date and in accordance with your wishes.
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 4:04 PM GMT
united, the will thread was put up on here maybe 18 months ago and i had a lot of help, we were able to tell the hsbs to **** off and paid them a few hundred, cant remember the actual way we were able to do this, but if anyone requires it, my brother sorted it out, and i could find out for you
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 4:28 PM GMT
a will with hsbc they charge 6000 plus vat, page 10 on this forum
Report unitedbiscuits December 8, 2011 5:42 PM GMT
I'm glad you got that sorted out elisjohn, I was scandalized to read your reference to it on the politics forum.

Johnnytheguesser - thanks for sound advice, my trusted executor works in a solicitors' office team.
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 6:19 PM GMT
this isnt will, but ok most of us know, but whatever you all do if youve got cash/ house etc, bloody pass them on to kids/ family asap, wouldnt believe hassle we had with my grans when she went to a home, and im helping a old fashioned couple at moment sick with worry, her mum gone to home and they try and get near 2000 a month to pay, the house will go to pay this, and theyve worked all their lives, never claimed nothing, but to naive to get the mum   to transfer the house to them years ago  .
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 6:20 PM GMT
p s the gang on that earlir thread saved us loads , thanks again
Report Johnny The Guesser December 8, 2011 7:20 PM GMT

Parents transferring their home to their kids is fraught with dangers -

- children may divorce, go bankrupt, fall out with parents,decide to sell property etc
- capital gains tax problems can arise if property increases in value.
- council may challenge transfer at later date anyway.
- parents end up in 'cheap' care home rather than a 'nice' one.
- can cause IHT complications.

It certainly isn't a "no brainer" decision.
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 7:32 PM GMT
put it that  johnny, it is a decision thathas to be more carefully thought out than i anticipated,  but if youre thinking of the kids and wanting to leave them your assets then do it within a 7 year time scale ,
Report Johnny The Guesser December 8, 2011 7:44 PM GMT
If you give your house away but continue to live in it then it will still be considered to be part of your estate for IHT purposes when you die, unless, you have paid your kids full market rent for living in your own house.

Google "gifts with reservation of benefit" 

Thats what I meant by "IHT complications"
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 8:00 PM GMT
johonny, ok if i owned a house worth 200,000 and live on my own till im say 75, and then i go ill etc and must go to a home and live there for 8years at say 2,100a month total near 200,000   so my house would have gone and i could leave my kids nothing . so what do you reckon best thing to do ?
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 8:02 PM GMT
p s i take it best for next of kin if you die rather than go into care then
Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 8:03 PM GMT
sorry anyone know if there is an insurance to cover you in case of home care etc, that you dont lose your home
Report Johnny The Guesser December 8, 2011 8:39 PM GMT

It's easy to make the best decision when you have the benefit of hindsight.

In your example it's best to give your house away.

But what about the guy who gave his house away years ago when it was worth 50K.He dies without going into care. House now worth 300K.No IHT to pay but kids could face capital gains tax of 30-40K+ on sale as property not their home. Nothing to pay at all if Dad had kept the house!

Or the guy who gives his house to his only son and sees half disappear after a messy divorce -he may even get evicted! 

Report elisjohn December 8, 2011 8:48 PM GMT
cheers johonny, made me think
Report Dotchinite December 10, 2011 1:40 PM GMT
Giving your house away and still living in doesnt avoid IHT.
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