Tradefair & Financials
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
17 May 11
17:54
Joined:
Date Joined:
18 Jun 02
any reason they have dropped like a stone lately? Other shares not doing that bad
Show More
why is that,dont have much knowledge of this sort of thing turtleshead,but they were overscribed,the company have a great balance sheet,dont owe any money etc?
Because given the massive opposition in other countries, it is almost impossible to see where growth is going to occur. And if they were to get around this and get permission to operate, it is 99.99% certain that a competitor in the US, far east or wherever, would spring up and take their place. One which charges far less in commission, no pc etc etc. I can't seriously believe anyone would pay the current price, let alone the utterly ludicrously comical £15 price they were at the start. To be frank whoever did should give up any sort of gambling or investing and take up knitting.
ok thanks for your reply,appreciated.Iknow its only a software gambling company but i thought i might be missing something
What turtleshead said, plus looking at their actual profits. I believe it is only approx £50 mill per year. Betfair was trading for a PE ratio over 30 at launch. This implies it was significantly overvalued, or that people thought a large amount of growth was possible. When it became evident that this growth was unlikely, the price tumbled. It is nearing a more fair price now, but it is still overvalued. £5-6 is probably about fair.
i was reading an interesting article ( from an investment bank, that incidentally wasnt one of those involved in the floatation ), saying that looking at betfair pe is deceptive. they got 200m+ in cash, so the 1st 2 quid of the stock price are really just cash, then that having moved to gibraltar they have saved themselves 20m of taxes which will boast their earnings. there was somthing else about value of investments, but in a nutshell they were saying that the current valuation of 8 quid means basically a pe of 10/11. so it might be a safe buy downhere...
How long before they hit their correct price of a fiver?
im a buyer..there is opportunity for betfair in a range of markets. You have to be a mug to by any IPO shares in the first month. It's not just betfair this happens to, it's all about those greedy, ruhtless, capital sucking spivs ramping up shares and mugging investors. I think betfair are a buy from here
Only a mug would buy them at their current price.
As indicated earlier, where is the growth going to come from?
Like I say, still about 50% overpriced.
As indicated earlier, where is the growth going to come from?
Like I say, still about 50% overpriced.
From 2nd June when BF shares were around 840p [:o]
.
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/28940/morgan-stanley-upgrades-betfair-to-overweight-28940.html
Morgan Stanley upgrades Betfair to overweight
2nd Jun 2011, 3:42 pm Morgan Stanley has upgraded its rating for betting firm Betfair - the world's biggest betting community - to 'overweight'Morgan Stanley has upgraded its rating for betting firm Betfair - the world's biggest betting community - to "overweight"
The performance of the company since it listed as a public company in October last year has been troubled and the share price has gone from £13 last year when it floated to around 830 pence today.
It has also emerged in recent weeks that members of middle management have quit the firm and that its own polling had shown staff to be unsure about the firm's future direction.
In a research note today, investment bank Morgan Stanley, said it had upgraded the FTSE-250 company and given it a new price target of 1,150 pence - implying a 38 percent increase.
Analyst Vaughan Lewis said: "We believe that the bad news since its (Betfair's) Oct 2010 listing is now well understood, and we see scope for outperformance from here due to a low valuation, a re-acceleration in growth as new products come online, cost cutting and potential surprises from new markets."
In a management statement on March 8 this year, Betfair gave key performance indicators for the its third quarter - ended 31 January 2011.
It said how from the next day (March 9) its Betting Exchange would operate under a Gibraltar licence.
"In recent months, Betfair has undergone a period of significant restructuring and has now transferred the majority of the key systems for its Betting Exchange from the UK to Gibraltar and Dublin," it said in the statement.
It said: "The company expects a positive EBITDA impact from the restructuring resulting from gross profits tax savings, partially offset by higher operational costs arising from running both new and existing data centres in parallel. These additional operational costs will reduce as our portfolio of data centres is consolidated during FY12."
It added: "The company expects no material financial impact in the current financial year and a net EBITDA benefit of approximately £10m in FY12."
CEO David Yu said the firm had made a good start to Q4 and was rolling out a planned series of major improvements to our sports betting product to drive revenue growth in Q4 and into FY12.
"We remain confident that we will deliver an outcome for the current financial year within the range of market expectations," he had said.
Morgan Stanley summised today: "While headline multiples do not appear cheap, we think this is a reflection of Betfair’s business being in an investment phase, and sitting on a significant cash position."
.
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/28940/morgan-stanley-upgrades-betfair-to-overweight-28940.html
Morgan Stanley upgrades Betfair to overweight
2nd Jun 2011, 3:42 pm Morgan Stanley has upgraded its rating for betting firm Betfair - the world's biggest betting community - to 'overweight'Morgan Stanley has upgraded its rating for betting firm Betfair - the world's biggest betting community - to "overweight"
The performance of the company since it listed as a public company in October last year has been troubled and the share price has gone from £13 last year when it floated to around 830 pence today.
It has also emerged in recent weeks that members of middle management have quit the firm and that its own polling had shown staff to be unsure about the firm's future direction.
In a research note today, investment bank Morgan Stanley, said it had upgraded the FTSE-250 company and given it a new price target of 1,150 pence - implying a 38 percent increase.
Analyst Vaughan Lewis said: "We believe that the bad news since its (Betfair's) Oct 2010 listing is now well understood, and we see scope for outperformance from here due to a low valuation, a re-acceleration in growth as new products come online, cost cutting and potential surprises from new markets."
In a management statement on March 8 this year, Betfair gave key performance indicators for the its third quarter - ended 31 January 2011.
It said how from the next day (March 9) its Betting Exchange would operate under a Gibraltar licence.
"In recent months, Betfair has undergone a period of significant restructuring and has now transferred the majority of the key systems for its Betting Exchange from the UK to Gibraltar and Dublin," it said in the statement.
It said: "The company expects a positive EBITDA impact from the restructuring resulting from gross profits tax savings, partially offset by higher operational costs arising from running both new and existing data centres in parallel. These additional operational costs will reduce as our portfolio of data centres is consolidated during FY12."
It added: "The company expects no material financial impact in the current financial year and a net EBITDA benefit of approximately £10m in FY12."
CEO David Yu said the firm had made a good start to Q4 and was rolling out a planned series of major improvements to our sports betting product to drive revenue growth in Q4 and into FY12.
"We remain confident that we will deliver an outcome for the current financial year within the range of market expectations," he had said.
Morgan Stanley summised today: "While headline multiples do not appear cheap, we think this is a reflection of Betfair’s business being in an investment phase, and sitting on a significant cash position."
Shares in Betfair, the embattled FTSE 250 gambling group, touched a new low in trading amid mounting speculation that the company is hatching plans to find a new chief executive.
The news comes as the group prepares for next week's crucial full-year results statement, which follows a turbulent first eight months as a public company in which the shares have lost 43% and a string of middle managers have left.
Sources close to Betfair say it has begun sounding out headhunters about potential successors to boss David Yu, who is believed to have told friends that he would like to return to his native America. When asked if the company is looking for a new chief executive, one shareholder said: "The City will demand it."
Betfair declined to "comment on speculation". However, while sources close to the board insisted that no headhunting firm had been appointed, they would not deny the rumours swirling around the industry and the City that Yu would be leaving, possibly as soon as this autumn.
This month's arrival of former William Hill director, Ian Chuter, as group operations director is seen by many in the industry as an attempt by Betfair to address some of the weaknesses that have emerged since its flotation in October. One headhunter said: "Chuter is a strong operations guy. What Betfair will now be looking for is somebody who is City-facing."
Yu, who was absent from work in March 2010 with a cardiological complaint, has suffered a torrid induction to life as a public company boss. Betfair's shares listed at £13, implying a valuation which observers warned meant the company had been "priced for perfection".
After a decent early run, the shares were soon savaged, with investors particularly disappointed by the group's interim results in December. At the time, analysts at Panmure Gordon described the numbers as revealing "anaemic revenue growth".
The group has also suffered from a string of resignations including Mathias Entenmann, chief product and services officer; Charlie Palmer, head of mobile; Robin Osmond, chief executive of financial betting exchange LMAX; Matt Carter, director of architecture, research and prototyping; and Lee Cowles, director of UK sports and gaming. It also ran its own private polling of employees, which revealed staff believe their company is lacking direction.
Betfair shares touch 715.79p in trading on Friday, a new low, but recovered later in the day to close up 8p at 743p.
Analysts at Morgan Stanley predict that the company will announce a 9% rise in full-year revenues next week to £373m and a 15% rise in profit before tax to £31m.
The news comes as the group prepares for next week's crucial full-year results statement, which follows a turbulent first eight months as a public company in which the shares have lost 43% and a string of middle managers have left.
Sources close to Betfair say it has begun sounding out headhunters about potential successors to boss David Yu, who is believed to have told friends that he would like to return to his native America. When asked if the company is looking for a new chief executive, one shareholder said: "The City will demand it."
Betfair declined to "comment on speculation". However, while sources close to the board insisted that no headhunting firm had been appointed, they would not deny the rumours swirling around the industry and the City that Yu would be leaving, possibly as soon as this autumn.
This month's arrival of former William Hill director, Ian Chuter, as group operations director is seen by many in the industry as an attempt by Betfair to address some of the weaknesses that have emerged since its flotation in October. One headhunter said: "Chuter is a strong operations guy. What Betfair will now be looking for is somebody who is City-facing."
Yu, who was absent from work in March 2010 with a cardiological complaint, has suffered a torrid induction to life as a public company boss. Betfair's shares listed at £13, implying a valuation which observers warned meant the company had been "priced for perfection".
After a decent early run, the shares were soon savaged, with investors particularly disappointed by the group's interim results in December. At the time, analysts at Panmure Gordon described the numbers as revealing "anaemic revenue growth".
The group has also suffered from a string of resignations including Mathias Entenmann, chief product and services officer; Charlie Palmer, head of mobile; Robin Osmond, chief executive of financial betting exchange LMAX; Matt Carter, director of architecture, research and prototyping; and Lee Cowles, director of UK sports and gaming. It also ran its own private polling of employees, which revealed staff believe their company is lacking direction.
Betfair shares touch 715.79p in trading on Friday, a new low, but recovered later in the day to close up 8p at 743p.
Analysts at Morgan Stanley predict that the company will announce a 9% rise in full-year revenues next week to £373m and a 15% rise in profit before tax to £31m.
725p ,after reaching 714p..
27 June 2011
Succession process for CEO of Betfair to begin
After ten years with Betfair, and nearly six as CEO, David Yu has informed the Board that he believes it is now the right time for the company to start looking for his successor. He does not intend to renew his current contract (which expires in October 2012) and therefore the Board will now begin a search process for a new CEO. During the process of identifying his successor, David will remain fully committed to the Company and to delivering the plans for future growth.
David Yu said,
"I have discussed my plans with the Board and as a result, we are beginning the search for my successor. We are announcing this now so we can actively and transparently begin the process. I will remain committed to delivering the best for our people and our shareholders and will give the Board all possible support during the succession process so we can find a great, new CEO to steer Betfair through its next phase of growth."
Edward Wray, Chairman, said:
"We understand why after ten years David would like to start thinking about the next stage of his career and, in time, hand the reins over to a new CEO. The open manner in which we will conduct the search will make it easier for us to find the best candidate for the role. With the Board's full support, David will continue to focus on delivering against the business' plans as we search for his successor."
27 June 2011
Succession process for CEO of Betfair to begin
After ten years with Betfair, and nearly six as CEO, David Yu has informed the Board that he believes it is now the right time for the company to start looking for his successor. He does not intend to renew his current contract (which expires in October 2012) and therefore the Board will now begin a search process for a new CEO. During the process of identifying his successor, David will remain fully committed to the Company and to delivering the plans for future growth.
David Yu said,
"I have discussed my plans with the Board and as a result, we are beginning the search for my successor. We are announcing this now so we can actively and transparently begin the process. I will remain committed to delivering the best for our people and our shareholders and will give the Board all possible support during the succession process so we can find a great, new CEO to steer Betfair through its next phase of growth."
Edward Wray, Chairman, said:
"We understand why after ten years David would like to start thinking about the next stage of his career and, in time, hand the reins over to a new CEO. The open manner in which we will conduct the search will make it easier for us to find the best candidate for the role. With the Board's full support, David will continue to focus on delivering against the business' plans as we search for his successor."
There will surely be many pretenders on the general betting forum dusting off their CVs as we speak.
Many on there seem to know exactly what's wrong in BF and how to fix it.
Many on there seem to know exactly what's wrong in BF and how to fix it.
The new premium charge is ridiculous and short-sighted. Betfair's most successful customers must pay 40% of profits to Betfair? Do people who are the sharpest trader take away from the market? I am sure these sharp traders provide a lot of liquidity which attracts the smaller traders. Now you have given the best traders a big incentive to provide liquidity to other exchanges. This is basic economics which Betfair is failing to understand. I wouldn't hold on to shares here.
The contrarian in me is starting to awake from a deep slumber.
if you dont 'market make' on betfair, where else can you do it? it s the classic case of a big hat and a big head, each needing the other. betfair needs liquidity but the marketmakers need the platform. it happened in all mature markets, margins are squeezed as volumes increase.
Johnnie
I don't think market makers have a real problem if they are turning over large volumes at small margins, and achieving a relatively smooth performance. Sure their margins will be squeezed further, but not to breaking point.
The inequities arise if you are successful gambler, but inconsistent..
I can't see how you can handle the PC if you have wide performance variances.
I don't think market makers have a real problem if they are turning over large volumes at small margins, and achieving a relatively smooth performance. Sure their margins will be squeezed further, but not to breaking point.
The inequities arise if you are successful gambler, but inconsistent..
I can't see how you can handle the PC if you have wide performance variances.
I can't really see the betfair model, at this stage of the game, being a good one to invest in.
Most of the growth in betfair I would think has already occurred.
They already operate in the premium betting countries of the world and the betting options available are already huge.
With the exception of opening up " betfair china" it is difficult to make a case for much growth in revenues.
As an investor I would be concerned about the PC raise just announced. It is virtually an admission by BF that they have reached their full growth and now only have the "increase the price " option left.
Another issue is the lack of competition. If BF raise their prices sufficiently this can open up the possibility of additional betting exchanges being created. In fact its a bit of a surprise that this has not already occurred.
Here In aust there are small rumbling that the tote is taking a look at setting up its own exchange. I would put that coming to reality in the 100/1 range , but you get the point.
It all depends how BF plays it. About 5/6 years ago my space and friendster dominated the social network. Friendster is gone any myspace is losing millions and millions and up for sale.
Google has launched this week its own social network site. I would'nt be buying facebook shares.
Most of the growth in betfair I would think has already occurred.
They already operate in the premium betting countries of the world and the betting options available are already huge.
With the exception of opening up " betfair china" it is difficult to make a case for much growth in revenues.
As an investor I would be concerned about the PC raise just announced. It is virtually an admission by BF that they have reached their full growth and now only have the "increase the price " option left.
Another issue is the lack of competition. If BF raise their prices sufficiently this can open up the possibility of additional betting exchanges being created. In fact its a bit of a surprise that this has not already occurred.
Here In aust there are small rumbling that the tote is taking a look at setting up its own exchange. I would put that coming to reality in the 100/1 range , but you get the point.
It all depends how BF plays it. About 5/6 years ago my space and friendster dominated the social network. Friendster is gone any myspace is losing millions and millions and up for sale.
Google has launched this week its own social network site. I would'nt be buying facebook shares.
That's it then.
I'm definitely buying BF now.
Just joking.
I'm definitely buying BF now.
Just joking.
They already operate in the premium betting countries of the world and the betting options available are already huge.
except china (as you mentioned), usa, india, japan...any one of which would dwarf all the current markets put together.
whethere they embrace betfair or not is a different story
except china (as you mentioned), usa, india, japan...any one of which would dwarf all the current markets put together.
whethere they embrace betfair or not is a different story
usa is all tote, they would not be allowed to operate. AS I understand it many race clubs operate independantly as well.Every state has a different law.Otherwise I'm sure they would already be there.
India- cricket for sure, why are they not there already?
Japan- would never let an outsider benefit from their betting.
India- cricket for sure, why are they not there already?
Japan- would never let an outsider benefit from their betting.
Maybe they had slow growth in revenue because high premium charges. If you increase the price of something, people will demand less of it. It is basic economics. Betfair believes that by increasing charges on the people who keep the market efficient they will keep more money in Betfair. This is true in the short run, but you are destroying liquidity in the market and liquidity will go elsewhere. Why in the world would any exchange want their market to be less efficient? Instead of increasing prices on its current customers, Betfair should be growing revenue.
They will be growing revenue. The idea behind the increase in PC charges is to force the big winners to give back more to the pot of money that keeps the exchange principle self sustaining and growing.
At the moment the big winners are killing the golden goose.
They need to be reined in and fast.
At the moment the big winners are killing the golden goose.
They need to be reined in and fast.
India- cricket for sure, why are they not there already?
Gambling is illegal in India, Mrben.
To get around this, the biggest Indian bookmakers work out of Dubai, where, oddly enough, gambling is also illegal.
Gambling is illegal in India, Mrben.
To get around this, the biggest Indian bookmakers work out of Dubai, where, oddly enough, gambling is also illegal.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539