Tradefair & Financials
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12 Nov 10
17:28
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31 Aug 07
All this talk of hyper inflation, its not going to happen is it? the average man on the street doesn't have no money, most americans are broke.
The rich are getting richer but the poor are getting poorer, and the rich cannot possibly spend or find ways to spend all that fed money, they can print 10 trillion prices wont go up because average folks aren't getting none of it.
So whats going to happen? commodities will plummet gold will be back to 800 dollar an ounce and everything will fall?
The only reason gold and commodities have risen is because the rich with the money are speculating then when its busts the poor gits are going to be left holding gold thats worth half what they paid for it and the rich will have got even richer.
Or am I wrong? before today i was thinking hyperinflation but now im totally opposite.
The rich are getting richer but the poor are getting poorer, and the rich cannot possibly spend or find ways to spend all that fed money, they can print 10 trillion prices wont go up because average folks aren't getting none of it.
So whats going to happen? commodities will plummet gold will be back to 800 dollar an ounce and everything will fall?
The only reason gold and commodities have risen is because the rich with the money are speculating then when its busts the poor gits are going to be left holding gold thats worth half what they paid for it and the rich will have got even richer.
Or am I wrong? before today i was thinking hyperinflation but now im totally opposite.
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You're forgetting commodities are sold in global markets. Prices for wheat, rice, cocoa, metals, energy are set according to global demand. We are already seeing strong inflation.
If gold drops to $800 dollars then it's a fantastic buying opportunity because long term gold will keep rising exponentially along with the money supply. Demand in the likes of India and China is still there which will keep commodity prices up and we are unlikely to see a significant rally in the dollar. Hyper inflation won't occur until governments start printing money just to pay their outgoings which could be another 5 years or so. What we have seen so far is only the beginning but it is only a matter of time. If we do see deflation great, but I really can't see the price of food and energy coming down. House prices and wages yes but as the pound starts sinking everything we import will become significantly more expensive. |
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Pierre- what a ludicrious thought process you have.
The rich get richer the poor get poorer, this has been how it is throughout time of all economies.This equation has zero to do with inflation/hyper or deflation. The rich have not been in receipt of "all that fed money" Even if they were and "they cant possibly find ways to spend it" where exactly do you think they would be spending it? Harrods? "Prices wont go up because average folks are'nt getting none of it" does this mean "average folks" are responsible for pushing up prices in normal circumstances? "Commodities will plummet and gold will fall to 800 dollar " WHy? And why 800? Why not 900 or 300 or 1012? Why 800? Presumably commodities will fall because average folks are getting none of it?By association prices must have risen because averaqge folks have been getting plenty of them now? "The only reason gold has risen because the rich are speculating" Really?  Do you spend most of you leisure time reading kindegarten books?Hyperinflation is huge inflation of prices supported by huge increases in money supply.NOT repeat NOT the price of commodities.Price rises of commodities is a sympton of inflation, not the cause. "Or am I wrong? before today i was thinking hyperinflation but now im totally opposite. " I would suggest you would not know if you were arthur or martha-inflationally speaking. |
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Mr Ben
i like you , but there is a fair amount of truth in what the guy writes. Inflatinn by definition is too much money chasing too few goods. Therefore , more people need to have more money, i.e Salaries need to be increasing for the average man. This is not happening, and in addition you seem to forgetthat the average man is no longer allowed nto borrow the money that fuelled the bubble in the first place. The only people really benefitting form teh current situation are the banks and those with mortgages. I noticed they put up Rates in Australia.What doe the average taxpayer think about that? Their mortgages must be getting more expensive so what is happening to house prices? Are you finding that some unusual areas of teh country are seeing massive investment , and are people moving form places like Sydney to smaller areas that in the past were seen as being unfashionable? It is an amazing story right? |
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Hi Chisel, Interestingly re house prices and interest rates.House prices have flattened off but are still rising slightly.The main reason is immigration.The govt just keeps shovelling more and more people into the country and virtually all of them live in the big cities.Generally only the poorest of people move to smaller areas.In aust there is little employment in small areas.Its not runaway price rises by any means but there are no falls. As well as that the govt here is pro big cities since historically they do not poll well in country areas.Thats part of the reason behind massive immigration , political power.
Also here in Aust confidence is high due to our resource situation.We also have avoided any banking crisis.The AUD is high now.I just spend 3 weeks in california and vegas, I actually got parity on a few currency exchanges there and shops were willing to accept the AUD as payment for goods. As a bye the bye, americans on an individual level were extremly pessimistic.the TV is full of " recession " stories.It seemed to me to be much worse on the ground than is reported here. |
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Here's good old Mrben getting it wrong again.
Inflation is a monetary event. Hyperinflation is not caused by "huge inflation", it's caused by a loss of faith in the currency. Get it right. |
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By: Menelaus When: 15 Nov 10 20:20 Here's good old Mrben getting it wrong again.
Inflation is a monetary event. Hyperinflation is not caused by "huge inflation", it's caused by a loss of faith in the currency. Get it right. thats the 1st time i've ever heard that definition. melanus you have proved yourself an imbecile over and over and over and true to form your at it once again. Well done. |
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I'm not surprised it's the first time you heard that definition. You need a formal education to understand hyperinflation, not one gained by trolling this forum. Educate yourself...........
David Rosenberg:"....this is how hyperinflation arises: it is not so much a monetary supply/demand phenomenon, as it is one of faith in a currency, any currency." Antal.E. Fekete: "Hyperinflation is not the same as the ultimate inflation of the money supply. It is the complete loss of faith in the unit, the ultimate depreciation of the currency unit. The two concepts are far from being the same, Quantity Theory of Money notwithstanding". Gary Shilling:"...when a nation's creditors lose faith in the debtor nation's currency, hyperinflation always ensues." Robert Prechter:"...hyperinflation is always a market driven event through investors losing faith in the currency. It is distinct and different than very high inflation." Ian Gordon:"The Weimar Republic hyperinflation episode is one of many examples of the result of loss in faith in fiat currency but the one most often used by economists to demonstrate the destructive force of a currency collapse" Martin Armstrong: ".... the role on hyperinflation in Germany and Austria..... at first prices were rising more slowly then they were printing as people held the money, then as people eventually lost faith in the currency and would spend it as soon as they received it, it kicked velocity into overdrive and multiplied the number of transactions each unit of currency took." There are many more, but do you own research. I don't have time to educate trolls. |
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obert Prechter:"...hyperinflation is always a market driven event through investors losing faith in the currency. It is distinct and different than very high inflation."
bobby prechter! dont tell me you belive in this goose? Hes been preaching meltdown for over 20 years, he believes the dow can fall to zero. myalanus- try thinking for yourself,instead of swallowing the tripe of those with barrows to push such as prechter.These guys are selling course,books,website subscriptions etc for the gullible like you to buy. Martin Armstrong: ".... the role on hyperinflation in Germany and Austria..... at first prices were rising more slowly then they were printing as people held the money, then as people eventually lost faith in the currency and would spend it as soon as they received it, it kicked velocity into overdrive and multiplied the number of transactions each unit of currency took." the essence of this statement comes back to money printing.People "lost faith " BECAUSE too much was printed, thus by you own quotes melly hyperinflation is caused by money printing-QE is the modern term stop playing the man melly and start dealing in facts. You have peviously demonstrated a minimal grasp fundamental facts but a proclivity to regurgitate what you have been told.Think for yourself - if you can. |
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Mrben, the whole point is not whether I ascribe to the economic viewpoint and position of the people I quoted, that's a strawman argument created by you.
The point is that if you had seriously delved in economic matters beyond the drivel you keep posting on this forum, you'd know that hyperinflation is loss of faith in a currency and not "really high inflation". You not only didn't know, you never even heard of it before. Try impressing someone totally illiterate of these matters. As for impressing me, not so much. |
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Mrben, spend some time educating yourself, and I don't mean reading your daily's "financial section" nor spending time on here spewing insults:
Doubling Your Monetary Base and Surviving: Some International Experience Richard G. Anderson, Charles S. Gascon, and Yang Liu The authors examine the experience of selected central banks that have used large-scale balance- sheet expansion, frequently referred to as “quantitative easing,” as a monetary policy instrument. The case studies focus on central banks responding to the recent financial crisis and Nordic central banks during the banking crises of the 1990s; others are provided for comparison purposes. The authors conclude that large-scale balance-sheet increases are a viable monetary policy tool provided the public believes the increase will be appropriately reversed. (JEL E40, E52, E58) Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis Review, November/December 2010, 92(6), pp. 481-505. In other words, PROVIDED CONFIDENCE IN THE CURRENCY IS NOT LOST. Here's the link: http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/10/11/Anderson.pdf |
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Menelaus
the real point is that there is absolutely no chance of investors losing so much faith in the Dollar, Pound and Euro that we will ever see HYPERINFLATION here. This is not Zimbabwe. Have investors lost faith in the Yen? This argument is utterly ridiculous. The dfinition of Hyperinflation is when prices rise by over 100% in 3 years , or 26% compound over 3 years!!. How can this happen. Hyperinfaltion by definition also refers to a local population losing faith in the local currency , and being unwilling to hold it for long enough to trade it for something of non monetary value. this can not be forced on a developed economy without some horrendous event |
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Chisel, we are at the opening act of the worse currency crisis mankind has ever seen, nothing more, nothing less.
The fractional reserve fiat money system we have today was designed to fail from the moment it was conceived. Money is debt, and debt is principal plus interest, only the interest part doesn't get printed into existence. It's paid back through growth, exponential growth at that. The minute exponential growth ceases, the system collapses. You can not run away from the equation, and we are now at the beginning of the fail phase. In some sense you are right, this isn't Zimbabwe, it's way worse. |
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im scared daddy
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come on melanus, thats just total alarmist drivel."The moment expotential growth ceases the sysystem collapses"???? expotential growth was never in place to start with. China has been growing at 10% plus for more than a few years.Are you suggesting that if they had a few years at zero growth their economy would collapse? Thats laughable.
Money is debt? How do you work that one out, If your debt free like me and I spend 100$ that expenditure is debt? What???? Melly, you have a pretty lose grip on reality there, as chisel states your argument is totally ridiculous. The opening act of the worst currency crisis mankind has ever seen? how so? Please explain.There will be no crisis if all curriencies are in crisis at the same time.All currencies cannot race to the bottom at the same time.It was just a few months ago that even the great george soris was claiming the euro would fall to 80 cents.Never got within a bulls roar of it. Worse than zimbabwe? You may be able to quote notable articles/ authors but you understanding of the concepts is non existant. Take your medication and re read economics 101. |
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You don't know what hyperinflation is, you think it's just "very high inflation", and now you reveal you don't know how the monetary system works.
Yes, money is debt !!!!!!! They usually teach that in first year at the London School of Economics. In your local daily, not so much. It is downright shameful that you are commenting on financial matters on this forum if you don't know something as basic as that. |
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Menelaus is correct: money is created as debt, and the system requires exponential growth in order to keep the ship afloat.
When people lose faith in paper money they stop using it to buy or sell goods. It doesn't matter what exchange rates are if nobody wants to accept the stuff. There is nothing stopping you if, say, you are selling a piece of land, to quote a price in Kg of gold. Makes a lot of sense if you have no idea if the paper money which might be offered cannot buy anything else. To be honest I am not sure if we are about to see the imminent collapse of the monetary system. More likely is that they keep the show on the road in some kind of zombie state, with everyone except the bankers gradually getting poorer and poorer. Personally I put all my savings into gold a couple of years back, and will not be selling it unless I know I can get something with tangible value with the proceeds. Nothing looks very attractive at the minute. |
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hi guys, long time no speak...
im not too sure the fiat system will fall down, and all at the same time ;-) the usd - on which i ve been positive for long time during the crises period - is really the only ccy at risk here, if bernanke and co dont manage to work out a plan to exit this loose strategy. but it s a problem a couple of yrs down the line. note tho, that when i say the usd is at risk,i cannot imagine a zimbabwe scenario at all. a 20% 30% drop in the external value for sure, but i dont buy the end of the world thing. (especially when the velocity is still low, the spare capacity is still huge, cpis and ppis are trending to the low ever and so on.) from your readings, i see you give too much space to conspiracists maybe ( armstrong, ffs, do you read even danbrown on the economy as well ? ), but then better to have more culture than less. but some of these guys tend to sell nightmare stories, and they re a bit too much attached to their roles of prophets of doom. but since world started there s been many more prophets of doom, compared to dooms themselves - which in fact never occurred ;-). so watch out. the only thing, and this is to whykamist too, of course any monetary and credit system looks 'dodgy' when you think about it, the idea itself to assign value to paper is weird. ( but so is to give value to salt as it was before, or pearls, or gold ) but this is how the world works unless we want to go back to a do-ut-des or do-ut-facias exchange economy where no monetary intermediary is necessary. same for fractional reserving, the advantages are far greater than the disadvantages. but keeping the discussion within the ccies boundaries, not because a central bank is been very aggressive that the end of the fiat world is coming. look even at the ecb, normalising the rates at the right time, withdrawing the stimulus, tough on inflation although the growth is only touching the core countries. even if the usd got punished, you dont need to lose faith in everything ( and i didnt even mention the nok, sek, cad, aud, nzd, chf... ) anyway hope all of you re fine, jw. |
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Yes, money is debt !!!!!!! They usually teach that in first year at the London School of Economics. In your local daily, not so much.
if money is debt then debt is money.They teach that in maths 101. Therefore If i have a 100k mortgage{debt} im going well because I have 100k in money. err no I dont.I have a 100k debt which I have to pay back with money.Not kg's of gold. Money is a means of exchange. Money is not secured against anything anymore. money is not debt, nor is it created as debt. and the system does not require expotential growth to keep the ship afloat. The ship can quite easily remain afloat with negative growth.It may not be a decadent party any longer but it remains afloat. I do agree with wikkie2 when he says that the economies may be kept afloat in some kind of zombie state with individual getting poorer and poorer. However I dont agree putting your $$$ into gold is a good idea.I recently read a study{ I wish I could find it again so I could quote it} that showed gold woefully underperforms. Gold is like any other investment, it should form PART not all of any strategy. There is no way, repeat NO WAY the monetary system is going to collapse.Not a snowballs chance in hell.They can print all the money they like and it wont cause a collapse. The often quoted hyperinflation in germany and zimbabwe are held up as prime examples of what happens when tooo much cash is around.What is not quoted is the background to it. Germany with WW1 and the impossible burden of repatriations and zimbabwe ridding itself of all the landholders and putting into place a govt of rampoant corruption and 100% incompetance. Neither of these types of scenarios exist in the current leading economies. Even rampant corruption is not sufficient alone.Phillipines and indonesia are terrible corrupt yet neither has hyper inflation. Further-- take the point that QE is to a certain extent replacing money lost durung GFC, a de leveraging they call it. The fear that everything will collapse is stopping so many people from making a fortune now. As you all know I;m a trader. The second half of 2010 will be my best ever.I just can't stop making money, sorry debts Stop concerning yourselves with the total bulllshit you are being fed by the media, goverments and uni professors and get on the greatest financial ride of your life.Times are beautiful now.  |
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Mrben: Once again, ignorance shouts the loudest. I have no intention in exchanging posts with anyone who posts "money is not debt, nor is it created as debt". This is the equivalent of posting "I'm ignorant of all matters related to economics, look what a fool I am."
JW: The US muni bond market is on the verge of be imploding, look for the FED to start buying munis next, they have no choice. And the ECB not to be outdone will monetize the debts of the technically insolvent euro financial sector and sovereign insolvency mess, they also have no choice. It's a fiat race to the bottom. And like I said in my previous post, you can't outrun the equation, it was a fiat monetary system that was designed to eventually fail and eventually is upon us now. And that's pretty simple arithmetic, not a conspiracy theory. |
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your deluded melly.Totally deluded.Your wallowing around in your own version of financial misery.The truth is an alien concept to you.
Im loud and ignorant- but I'm the one taking 3/4 overseas holidays a year and making north of 250k through trading.Go figure. You would do better to exchange posts with me rather than look for confirmation of your currently demented ideas. Trade on! Love Ben[:x] |
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Mr Bean, making $250k through trading is very impressive indeed.
You should know however that the $250k that you are claim making came into existence because someone at some point in time BORROWED IT. It was created as debt. Imagine if you knew the most basic fact in economics, how money is created, you'd be making $2 trillion a year trading with your brilliance. |
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*are* = delete
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America are selling 94% of their bonds to the Federal Reserve. This is effectively printing money. There WILL be hyperinflation in America if they don't stop printing money and don't raise the interest rates.
Prices of corn, wheat, soy bean, cotton etc etc etc is rising rapidly and businesses will be forced to raise prices. China have recently increased interest rates to offset the inflation caused by the US printing money (read: 'quantative easing). Bernanke swore under oath he would not monetise the debt. He is monetising the debt. All fiat currencies fail and the dollar's time has come. The pound and euro etc will follow. Buy gold and silver! |
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Menelaus is schooling mrben on economics. Please no one listen to this ben mug.
Don't take anyone's word for events on here. Study. I've spent hundreds of hours studying and reading articles and watching videos and now have a good understanding of the economy. Just be wary of the source, If you go on house price crash forums (which have some decent info) know that these people WANT a hpc and are bias. If you go on gold forums people their want their gold to skyrocket etc etc There is some great info out there. Start with Gerald Celente, Robert Kiyosaki, Ron Paul (US Congressman). These three will lead you to more who will lead to more. READ! |
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chisel
When: 16 Nov 10 15:27 Joined: Date Joined: 19 Sep 08 | Topic/replies: 1,572 | Blogger: chisel's blog Menelaus the real point is that there is absolutely no chance of investors losing so much faith in the Dollar, Pound and Euro that we will ever see HYPERINFLATION here. This is not Zimbabwe. Have investors lost faith in the Yen? This argument is utterly ridiculous. The dfinition of Hyperinflation is when prices rise by over 100% in 3 years , or 26% compound over 3 years!!. How can this happen. Hyperinfaltion by definition also refers to a local population losing faith in the local currency , and being unwilling to hold it for long enough to trade it for something of non monetary value. this can not be forced on a developed economy without some horrendous event You don't have the financial education to argue with Menelaus. Reading his posts you can tell he has put the effort and TIME in to learn what's what. Fact is you argue that people won't ever lose faith in the dollar. This is the most laughable thing I have ever heard. It has already begun. Big energy deal between China and Russia - not dealing in dollars. China with their dollar reserves - quietly buying natural resources around the globe and encouraging their people to buy gold and silver. The Fed being forced to buy 94% of US Bonds because no one is willing to invest in the dollar! They have to buy or the ponzi scheme will be completely unveiled. It's a last gasp of a dying system. Worldwide currency war - countries trying to devalue their currencies to help their exporters. QE2 was a major shot in a coming global FINANCIAL war (non military, just to be clear). The fact is, you're all mocking Menelaus when he is the only one with his eyes open. You're not going to see this info in the papers or on the news. You need to do some research. Money IS debt. Look at a ten pound note. 'I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of ten pounds'. Ten pounds someone owes you. You don't carry money, you aren't trading money, you are trading debt. Debt that is backed by nothing and cannot be repaid. |
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By: J2BLUE. When: 21 Nov 10 12:01 Menelaus is schooling mrben on economics. Please no one listen to this ben mug.
Don't take anyone's word for events on here. Study. I've spent hundreds of hours studying and reading articles and watching videos and now have a good understanding of the economy. Just be wary of the source, If you go on house price crash forums (which have some decent info) know that these people WANT a hpc and are bias. If you go on gold forums people their want their gold to skyrocket etc etc There is some great info out there. Start with Gerald Celente, Robert Kiyosaki, Ron Paul (US Congressman). These three will lead you to more who will lead to more. READ! oh J2 your as confused as melly.Your post is contradictory for a start.Firstly you, correctly, advise that if you go on a particular forum someone will be pushing the desired barrow.You warn against listening to them. In you next sentence you advise reading and taking as gospel clente,kiyosaki,paul.They too are pushing their own barrows.Why are they not treated with the same caution? There is nothing wrong with pushing a barrow.If you remember about 10 years ago kiyosaki was preaching to the world to buy real estate ad nauseaum.He made a fortune selling books and seminars. That did not work out too well did it? His beloved real estate crashed. Its fine to read such stuff.The key here is NOt to swallow it holus bolus.Youve got to have the brainpower to keep what good and discard whts essentially propaganda. This is where you and melly fall apart.You take the opinion of one "authority" and pitch it against another.To be successful you need to think for yourself. Take kiyosaki- his philosophy worked for quite a while but once usa house prices and transaction reached surrealistic levels- did investing any longer make sense? NO. Now the minute one realises this never coincides with a crash the next day, but the equation simply no longer made sense. No a single "authority" came out to say- hey this is total BS.I think it was roubini one other guy who were shouted down when they came out against the madness.You and melly would have been in the front line to shout them down, no doubt quoting various articles and financial authorities. Its the same here- "officials" are concerned about hyperinflation/ deflation or whatever takes their fantasy at the time.Your accepting what they say. You can have any amount of formal education you like and sit and pontificate ,using your education as justification.That doesnt count for shitt in the real world. What I'm recommending to you is think for yourself,dont keep quoting your read whatever.I disagreed with mellys post and his ony comeback is he has education and he read a lot of articles. So what? At least mount a sensible argument as to HOW such hyperinflation will occur. J2 you mention "currency wars" a premise I also dont accept.There can be no concurrent race to the bottom by definition.Think about it.How would it work in practice? The mere verbalising of it by some talking head does not make it so. J2 you mention big deals no longer being made in dollars.This is true, the USD will fall perhaps but a collapse will not happen.Neither will hyperinflation, neither will deflation. As an aside you quote "Money IS debt. Look at a ten pound note. 'I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of ten pounds' Seriously-I promise to pay the bearer 10 pounds, 10 pounds of what? Butter? Time to re think who's eyes are really open here and who's mind is closed. |
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one more point-
By: J2BLUE. When: 21 Nov 10 11:53 All fiat currencies fail and the dollar's time has come. The pound and euro etc will follow. Buy gold and silver! The euro has risen from a low of 1.20 late may 2010 to currently 1.3750.Thats 6 months its been rising. If you truely believe in what you saying J2 you could literally making 10's of millions pyramiding a position for the downside, starting with say 100k. Why dont you do this if you believe in a collapse? Please advise. |
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More drivel from Mr Bean. He posted:
"This is true, the USD will fall perhaps but a collapse will not happen" If there ever was a more ignorant comment posted in this forum, perhaps with the exception of "money is not created as debt" and "hyperinflation is huge inflation", someone please point me to it. Mr Bean, I have news for you, the USD is the world's reserve currency and if it fails the global financial system collapses the very same second. Honestly, get a clue before you continue posting. |
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Mr Ben:
Nowhere do I advise taking Kiyosaki etc as gospel. That is your own own spin on my words. I said in the part before that you should lok at all sources critically. I just advise those three because they will lead you to more articles and videos which are both in agreement and disagreement. Hyperinflation will occur when the world loses faith in the currency. No one will want to hold dollars. It will be like holding water in a cup with a hole in the bottom. There will be a race to get rid of dollars as soon as you hold them. The lack of faith will mean people demand more and more dollars for the same goods. A currency war has already begun. Quantative easing is one of the first shots along with China keeping the Yuan artifically low. Germany, Brazil, Russia etc etc have all threatened retaliation. 'Seriously-I promise to pay the bearer 10 pounds, 10 pounds of what? Butter?' Exactly. Backed by nothing. Why should anyone have faith in it? |
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Brilliant video on QE at youtube...here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k |
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By: Menelaus When: 22 Nov 10 13:16 More drivel from Mr Bean. He posted:
"This is true, the USD will fall perhaps but a collapse will not happen" If there ever was a more ignorant comment posted in this forum, perhaps with the exception of "money is not created as debt" and "hyperinflation is huge inflation", someone please point me to it. Mr Bean, I have news for you, the USD is the world's reserve currency and if it fails the global financial system collapses the very same second. Honestly, get a clue before you continue posting.  melly, your getting worse.There will be no collapse.Firstly the chinese currency is bound to the usa dollar.If the usa$ falls by 50% then the chinese benefit by 50%, making their exports as cheap as chips.Usa exports also.This increases demand, the aussie econmy booms off the back of an inceased demand for resources and the aussiess eventually take over the world!!! As the pound collapses to zero and the AUD goes to 5 mrben arrives in london and buys buckingham palace for 2 cents in the dollar!!!!Think thats going to happen? Wake up melly. J2 - have you just started in your journey into the financial world? "A currency war has already begun. Quantative easing is one of the first shots along with China keeping the Yuan artifically low. Germany, Brazil, Russia etc etc have all threatened retaliation. germany brazil russia etc have all threatened retaliation- so what? The chinese have been taking the world for a ride for a few years now and theres zippo the world can do about it.Exactly what form could such retaliation take? Its a hollow threat and china knows it.You should know it too. Stop worrying about this sort of hogwash and start making yourself some real money, sorry debt. Last night the euro got above 137.50 on "easing of irish debt concerns",, lololol did the irish debt disappear all of a sudden? The AUD got into the mid 99's but metals prices were falling. The dow futures were postive but then turned negative.The european markets opened up deep in the green off the back of the dow close but started to reverse.Yet these two curriencies continued to rise. I shorted 25 contracts of euro and 15 of aussie. i woke up this morning at 6.30 am and checked my positions.I was 33,000$AUD ahead after both fell nicely.Thats how you make money.Not by worrying about some fantasy collapse.Forget your fears and trade on! Now thats a big result for me.Today I will spend some of that money{debt} and buy one of those new 3D tv's for about 3500$.Im pretty sure the when I say to the guy " can I pay cash? " the answer won't be " no way, money is debt and I don't want any more debt".  The rest goes into the holiday fund. |
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on the story of money and debt.
lets be clear, it s not because of the 'i promise to pay the bearer...' which means nothing and incidentally is a sentence which is not written on dollars or on euros notes ( the newest of all ccies ), neither on coins. money is created as a result of debt ( by commercial banks basically, who multiply the monetary mass ), although in reality money is (in modern times) only a way to exchange goods, a numeraire basically ( but certanly not anymore a store of value.. ). thats what you meant menelaus? |
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Mr Bean: the rubbish you keep posting on here is astounding. If the USD falls by 50% from where it is today, the global economy collapses amid chaos along with it. Soaring oil prices would see to that, not to say anything of other commodity and (more importantly) food supply disruptions. But you instead are expecting a boom based on "the back of an inceased demand for resources". You couldn't make this stuff up even if you were trying to prove your ignorance of fundamental economics on purpose. Concerning your 33,000 AUD money making trade that you checked when you "woke up this morning at 6.30 am", I usually stop dreaming when I wake up, evidently you don't.
JW: money is created as debt. If I have to explain this further on a financial forum - except to Mr Bean - we're really in trouble here (read some of my previous posts on this thread, they are self explanatory). The "pay to the bearer" comment was not mine but I think the poster wasn't so much speaking about how money is created, but was rather trying to make the point that (since the abolition of the gold standard) that "promise" is backed by nothing tangible. |
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Menelaus When: 23 Nov 10 07:59 Mr Bean: the rubbish you keep posting on here is astounding. If the USD falls by 50% from where it is today, the global economy collapses amid chaos along with it. Soaring oil prices would see to that, not to say anything of other commodity and (more importantly) food supply disruptions. But you instead are expecting a boom based on "the back of an inceased demand for resources". You couldn't make this stuff up even if you were trying to prove your ignorance of fundamental economics on purpose. Concerning your 33,000 AUD money making trade that you checked when you "woke up this morning at 6.30 am", I usually stop dreaming when I wake up, evidently you don't. JW: money is created as debt. If I have to explain this further on a financial forum - except to Mr Bean - we're really in trouble here (read some of my previous posts on this thread, they are self explanatory). The "pay to the bearer" comment was not mine but I think the poster wasn't so much speaking about how money is created, but was rather trying to make the point that (since the abolition of the gold standard) that "promise" is backed by nothing tangible. Thank you, yes that is what I was trying to say. Fiat currencies are as worthless as monopoly money yet people wouldn't accept monopoly money. Soon people will realise they are both the same. Pieces of paper worth nothing. Fiat currencies are only worth the faith people place in them and the world is losing faith in the dollar and every other currency backed by nothing. Hyperinflation will follow. |
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melly you are a total dunderhead.If the world were made of icebergs you would be the titanic.
When: 23 Nov 10 07:59 If the USD falls by 50% from where it is today, the global economy collapses amid chaos along with it. Soaring oil prices would see to that, not to say anything of other commodity and (more importantly) food supply disruptions where did you get that from? A 12yo on u-tube?IF it were true that the USD fell by 50% AND the global economy collapsed, OIL would not soar as DEMAND would plummet due to reduced economic activity.How can oil soar on a collapsed world economy??????/?/????? DUNDERHEAD. You just dont think things through melly, you go off half cocked based on what some"expert" told you. In animal terms melly you are a sheep, one that can be led around with the herd and placed wherever the expert want to place you.You are what is termed "a highly educated twit" Its not so astounding to me as it you guys that are financing my lifestyle.Walking around convinced your "right" while we keep taking your money off you.... I'm sure you dont understand how and I'm growing tired of explaining to you.It was fun for a while but now its boring. Actually I'm doing my fellow traders a disservice by trying to help you.We need your money melly. J2-paper curriencies are not worthless by a long shot.I acquired a 3D TV yesterday which currently is sitting on the lounge room floor, not yet set up. As johniewalker points out money is a means to exchange goods, its real and the world will never lose faith in it on a worldwide basis.If you seriously think the big ecomomies of the world will ditch paper curriencies and start carrying around lumps of gold to spend at the supermarket.......  Get out of this kind of thinking.Otherwise you will end up as tragic as melly. |
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Mr Bean asks, where did I get that from?
Now that's tough one, but if one were to even momentarily get his head out of his arse, the answer is obvious.............. BECAUSE oil and other commodities are PRICED is USD's !!!!!! Which basically means USD DOWN = OIL UP. Or, may be you are naive enough to think that the oil producing nations will start giving it away when the economy crashes along with demand. Eventually the oil market would reach equilibrium, but that would happen LONG AFTER the failing USD took every else down with it. In other words, if the USD collapses, collapse in the global financial system and global economies becomes unavoidable. Such is the beauty of owning the world's reserve currency and being the world's only superpower. It is disgraceful that someone who lucks even a fundamental understanding of hyperinflation, how many gets created and how the global economy works POSTS HIS OPINIONS ON A FINANCIAL FORUM. And loudly at that. |
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I'm sure J2BLUE will respond to you himself but I can't resist this one.
Stop creating strawman arguments when your ignorance is revealed. J2BLUE didn't say money is worthless nor that it is not a medium of exchange. What he said was that IT IS BACKED BY NOTHING other than the faith that it can be exchanged for goods and services. It is precisely the breakdown in that FAITH that causes hyperinflation, something that you so erroneously described as "huge inflation". Enjoy your 3D TV, I highly recommend "Alice in Wonderland" in 3D, you'd fit right in. |
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If the USD falls by 50% from where it is today, the global economy collapses amid chaos along with it. Soaring oil prices would see to that
your words melly.Your worse than totally confused. I will watch alice in wonderland on my new 3dtv.I notice that the mad hatter has replaced in the new 3D version.His new name is "melanus" sorry melly I cant waste my time explaining how the world works to you again.Rest in peace. yours in disgrace Benny |
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Typical Mr Bean, often wrong but never in doubt.
But who am I to argue with you, you probably made another 30,000 AUD in your sleep last night again and rushed out to buy yet another of those 3D TVs that you always wanted but could never afford. |