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20 Apr 09
23:45
Joined:
Date Joined:
18 Sep 06
Rbs currently around 30p, what are peoples opinions on where
they might end the year ?
they might end the year ?
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I would say it's highly unlikely that either RBS or Lloyds would pay a dividend for some years. The strings attached to the APS are punitive.
...and I ask the question again. What does "perpetual and irredeemable" actually mean in the context of the B shares being issued to UKFI as the impact will have a big bearing on the way these banks will be run over the next 10 years.
...and I ask the question again. What does "perpetual and irredeemable" actually mean in the context of the B shares being issued to UKFI as the impact will have a big bearing on the way these banks will be run over the next 10 years.
People that have bought Rbs and Lloyds shares this year are not worried about the dividend!! Capital growth and stability will suit me fine!
The LUFCwaffe,
''Perpetual and irredeemable'' I would take to mean that the B shares cannot be cancelled by RBS buying them back at the conversion price.
Therefore ALL B shares issued will at some time become Ords which UKFI will place with Sovereign Wealth Funds/Institutions and possibly a retail offer to P.I.'s.
RBS could of course buy back Ords in the market but in my experience share buybacks are a complete waste of money(look at LGEN for example..1BN wasted in a pointless buyback and now they've cut the dividend again...to conserve capital lol).
To my mind everything hinges on the final details of the APS and how many B shares are issued.From memory the fee is 6BN plus 13 BN extra capital plus an option on another 6 BN capital, all to be paid for with B shares.
I hope that with the situation gradually inproving not all of this capital will be required......we'll know a bit more on Friday.
''Perpetual and irredeemable'' I would take to mean that the B shares cannot be cancelled by RBS buying them back at the conversion price.
Therefore ALL B shares issued will at some time become Ords which UKFI will place with Sovereign Wealth Funds/Institutions and possibly a retail offer to P.I.'s.
RBS could of course buy back Ords in the market but in my experience share buybacks are a complete waste of money(look at LGEN for example..1BN wasted in a pointless buyback and now they've cut the dividend again...to conserve capital lol).
To my mind everything hinges on the final details of the APS and how many B shares are issued.From memory the fee is 6BN plus 13 BN extra capital plus an option on another 6 BN capital, all to be paid for with B shares.
I hope that with the situation gradually inproving not all of this capital will be required......we'll know a bit more on Friday.
According to the UKFI Annual Report RBS B shares convert to ordinary shares automatically if the share price reaches 65p or above for 20 out of 30 consecutive trading days.
Page 25
http://www.ukfi.gov.uk/releases/UKFI%20Annual%20Report%202008-2009.pdf
Page 25
http://www.ukfi.gov.uk/releases/UKFI%20Annual%20Report%202008-2009.pdf
Yes you're correct there but UKFI cannot convert all their B shares if doing so would leave them owning more than 75% of the bank.
Most likely scenario is that they will convert B shares when the trigger point is reached then dispose of some and proceed to convert more and so on.
The strong performance of the investment banking unit in H1 will hopefully reduce the amount of new capital forced on the bank by the Govt.This cannot have been factored into the figures mooted when the APS was first devised.
Maybe fewer B shares will be issued than originally envisaged...although the Govt is getting such a good deal that they may force unnecessary capital on them anyway since RBS is in no position to argue.
Most likely scenario is that they will convert B shares when the trigger point is reached then dispose of some and proceed to convert more and so on.
The strong performance of the investment banking unit in H1 will hopefully reduce the amount of new capital forced on the bank by the Govt.This cannot have been factored into the figures mooted when the APS was first devised.
Maybe fewer B shares will be issued than originally envisaged...although the Govt is getting such a good deal that they may force unnecessary capital on them anyway since RBS is in no position to argue.
It is the complete lack of clarity on the APS which is of concern.
Reading between the lines of the what has been dispatched for our edification, it would (as you point out) seem that there could be an intent (by UKFI) to trade out of RBS shares at opportune times which will free up the ability to replace with converted B shares.
...but as neither RBS (Lloyds) or UKFI have had the decency to state the intended workings of this scheme we can only make guesses.
If of course the details of the APS have yet to be confirmed then yes there are certainly grounds for optimism. The details available to date look punitive, and are based on pretty much a doomsday scenario.....todays interim results from Lloyds sound encouraging.
Will Lloyds reach the £25bn of writedowns that are required to trigger the APS?
Why buy an insure with an excess of £25bn if you can't invoke the insurance?
Reading between the lines of the what has been dispatched for our edification, it would (as you point out) seem that there could be an intent (by UKFI) to trade out of RBS shares at opportune times which will free up the ability to replace with converted B shares.
...but as neither RBS (Lloyds) or UKFI have had the decency to state the intended workings of this scheme we can only make guesses.
If of course the details of the APS have yet to be confirmed then yes there are certainly grounds for optimism. The details available to date look punitive, and are based on pretty much a doomsday scenario.....todays interim results from Lloyds sound encouraging.
Will Lloyds reach the £25bn of writedowns that are required to trigger the APS?
Why buy an insure with an excess of £25bn if you can't invoke the insurance?
Apologies to LLoyds......from their Interim Statement
"Government Asset Protection Scheme
The Group is working with HM Treasury to finalise the detailed terms and conditions and operational mechanics of
the Group's intended participation in the Government's Asset Protection Scheme. The operation of the scheme
and the impact on our business (and the consequential impact on our lending and the wider economy) is complex.
The Group expects to conclude these discussions and agree terms and conditions which are in the interests of
shareholders."
Hopefully they (and RBS) are in a stronger position now than when the details of the APS were first published.
A heavily diluted APS will potentially be a massive boost to the share prices of both RBS and Lloyds over the coming years.
"Government Asset Protection Scheme
The Group is working with HM Treasury to finalise the detailed terms and conditions and operational mechanics of
the Group's intended participation in the Government's Asset Protection Scheme. The operation of the scheme
and the impact on our business (and the consequential impact on our lending and the wider economy) is complex.
The Group expects to conclude these discussions and agree terms and conditions which are in the interests of
shareholders."
Hopefully they (and RBS) are in a stronger position now than when the details of the APS were first published.
A heavily diluted APS will potentially be a massive boost to the share prices of both RBS and Lloyds over the coming years.
''In the interests of shareholders''.
That's the first encouraging piece of news concerning the APS I've read to date.
Fingers crossed for a more favourable outcome than feared.
That's the first encouraging piece of news concerning the APS I've read to date.
Fingers crossed for a more favourable outcome than feared.
Steptoes
Good to be on the rght side of things right!! Some on here are nbeing made to eat their own words. RBS up 2.5 pence today. as Ibought a load of these at just over 12 pence , every penny is Happy Days. Sure I bought some at much higher prices, that really does not matter any more!!! Happy days
Good to be on the rght side of things right!! Some on here are nbeing made to eat their own words. RBS up 2.5 pence today. as Ibought a load of these at just over 12 pence , every penny is Happy Days. Sure I bought some at much higher prices, that really does not matter any more!!! Happy days
Wait until interim announcement on Friday expanding on asset sales of former ABN Amro overseas.Should go above 60p soon.
Happy days. Well over 4 times what I paid for them!. Is there no end to this rally?
I remember chisel tipping these up at about 2 quid a share saying they couldnt go any lower.
A little disappointed toay, but think the figures were actually not too bad!
Haven't digested the figures yet myself, but at first glance the negative statements look a concern. If the write downs have yet to peak and a recovery further off than previously anticipated by the markets, then the prospects for the business remain cloudy.
Hesters comments regards political interference don't bode well either, even though he's spot on in what he's saying.
RBS don't seem to have the flexibilty going forward that is now available to Lloyds, for whom they may even be able to escape the clutches of the APS, whereas RBS are being sucked into it
Hesters comments regards political interference don't bode well either, even though he's spot on in what he's saying.
RBS don't seem to have the flexibilty going forward that is now available to Lloyds, for whom they may even be able to escape the clutches of the APS, whereas RBS are being sucked into it
unless we see some inflation ,house prices are still way too high,rbs might have the edge on lloyds inthis respect,but i would be a little more cautious over 50/100 inboth shares.
Expect Hester to be a lot more positive at the end of the year and at the start of 2010, leading up to the spring general election ;)
As previously stated it is in RBS interest to be cautious and more aggressive in writedowns. Obviously RBS and Lloyds loan book will be different but they can't both be right-
' results will be poor over the next two years, with no substantial improvement before 2011...
still too soon to say whether the market had seen the high-tide mark for impairments.
It's not impossible that we should be more optimistic now, but I am not going to call the turn today -- we need more evidence...
Even if the technical peak is either near or has passed, it will be some years before impairments subside. One needs to be cautious at overinterpreting short-term indicators.'
RBS is too cautious or Lloyds are too optimistic with their view that loan impairments have peaked. Political nuances are very much in the picture but I think Lloyds are being overly optimistic.
' results will be poor over the next two years, with no substantial improvement before 2011...
still too soon to say whether the market had seen the high-tide mark for impairments.
It's not impossible that we should be more optimistic now, but I am not going to call the turn today -- we need more evidence...
Even if the technical peak is either near or has passed, it will be some years before impairments subside. One needs to be cautious at overinterpreting short-term indicators.'
RBS is too cautious or Lloyds are too optimistic with their view that loan impairments have peaked. Political nuances are very much in the picture but I think Lloyds are being overly optimistic.
RBS is too cautious or Lloyds are too optimistic with their view that loan impairments have peaked. Political nuances are very much in the picture but I think Lloyds are being overly optimistic.
Agree with this....reasons why???
Lloyds top dogs are much the same, and Daniels has to beef it up to try and make the HBOS deal look attractive, if not surely he would be history.
RBS on the other hand have a new team. They need to play it down, and when it does start to improve take the credit, and of course the bonus's.
Agree with this....reasons why???
Lloyds top dogs are much the same, and Daniels has to beef it up to try and make the HBOS deal look attractive, if not surely he would be history.
RBS on the other hand have a new team. They need to play it down, and when it does start to improve take the credit, and of course the bonus's.
RBS biggest corporate loss in UK history now a small profit.
Not a bad turn around if u ask me.....another year and these shares will have at least doubled.
Not a bad turn around if u ask me.....another year and these shares will have at least doubled.
This appears to be the thread for making comments completely off the top of your head.
And your opinion is then owls????
Stupid comment imo.
Stupid comment imo.
Trying to put a valuation on a bank that is all but nationalised is 100% guess work, because ultimately the share price will depend on what the bloke in no. 10 decides.
If he decides to pay 95 pence on the pound for all the sh1t that they have on their books then the share price could go to the moon. If he decides to let them suffer the consequences of the coming tsunami of defaults then the price will go all the way to zero.
There are far better ways to invest your money then trying to second guess what a politician is going to do.
OK RTB?
If he decides to pay 95 pence on the pound for all the sh1t that they have on their books then the share price could go to the moon. If he decides to let them suffer the consequences of the coming tsunami of defaults then the price will go all the way to zero.
There are far better ways to invest your money then trying to second guess what a politician is going to do.
OK RTB?
Hester at RBS is talking it down so that when he gets his £9.6m bonus people are supposed to think he did a marvellous job, instead of savers just being robbed via QE.
OK owls, get your point!
But still think that there are reasons for Lloyds to be upbeat and RBS downbeat.
Although with talk of yet another rights issue at Lloyds it may be a while before £1 is reached again.
But still think that there are reasons for Lloyds to be upbeat and RBS downbeat.
Although with talk of yet another rights issue at Lloyds it may be a while before £1 is reached again.
lloyds rights much would the share price be at?
The problem that Lloyds have is that there's initial agreement is that the Gov will subscribe to Lloyds B shares at a price of 115p per share......as they are currently trading at 100p per share it will be difficult not to serious p1ss off the small shareholders.
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
RBS non-core business is losing money hand over fist (£9.6bn for the last 6 months) is expected to continue to do so, and may not yet have peaked. Their participation in the APS looks a done deal.
Lloyds on the other hand believe that the rate of losses should now be in decline, and they expect a significant reduction in impairments from now on. They also appear to have booked a lower profit on buying their debt than RBS did (£745m against RBS' £3.8m....from what I note in the Interims)...these benefits will not be inevidence so much next time, if at all.
Lloyds also believe they will be able to book a £+2bn readjustment over the next 6 months (was £+3.7bn for the first 6) which will be beneficial, + the ongoing cost savings.
Lloyds state that they will make a full year loss, but at what rate is that loss being reduced? Why pay £15bn+ for the APS, if you have to absorb the first £25bn yourself (c.£10.4bn attributable from the latest results, and believed to reduce significantly over the next 6 months).
For Lloyds the current APS arrangement no longer looks approriate, but at what cost and to whom (the small shareholder?). The amount raised by a rights issue needs to be assessed realistically. How much money genuinely needs to be put into the pot to keep the FSA happy regards capital ratio (which currently looks better than RBS from what I can glean)
It will be a while before RBS shake off the non-core loss making side....and return to a profitable bank. The latest accounts for the core business show a profit before tax of £6.3bn for 6 months (though this may include the debt buy back profit of £3.8bn).
Somewhere behind the figures from these banks lies profitability for the future.....your guess is now to work out how much and whether your holding is going to be diluted out of sight
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
RBS non-core business is losing money hand over fist (£9.6bn for the last 6 months) is expected to continue to do so, and may not yet have peaked. Their participation in the APS looks a done deal.
Lloyds on the other hand believe that the rate of losses should now be in decline, and they expect a significant reduction in impairments from now on. They also appear to have booked a lower profit on buying their debt than RBS did (£745m against RBS' £3.8m....from what I note in the Interims)...these benefits will not be inevidence so much next time, if at all.
Lloyds also believe they will be able to book a £+2bn readjustment over the next 6 months (was £+3.7bn for the first 6) which will be beneficial, + the ongoing cost savings.
Lloyds state that they will make a full year loss, but at what rate is that loss being reduced? Why pay £15bn+ for the APS, if you have to absorb the first £25bn yourself (c.£10.4bn attributable from the latest results, and believed to reduce significantly over the next 6 months).
For Lloyds the current APS arrangement no longer looks approriate, but at what cost and to whom (the small shareholder?). The amount raised by a rights issue needs to be assessed realistically. How much money genuinely needs to be put into the pot to keep the FSA happy regards capital ratio (which currently looks better than RBS from what I can glean)
It will be a while before RBS shake off the non-core loss making side....and return to a profitable bank. The latest accounts for the core business show a profit before tax of £6.3bn for 6 months (though this may include the debt buy back profit of £3.8bn).
Somewhere behind the figures from these banks lies profitability for the future.....your guess is now to work out how much and whether your holding is going to be diluted out of sight
The problem that Lloyds have is that there's initial agreement is that the Gov will subscribe to Lloyds B shares at a price of 115p per share......as they are currently trading at 100p per share it will be difficult not to serious p1ss off the small shareholders.
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
RBS non-core business is losing money hand over fist (£9.6bn for the last 6 months) is expected to continue to do so, and may not yet have peaked. Their participation in the APS looks a done deal.
Lloyds on the other hand believe that the rate of losses should now be in decline, and they expect a significant reduction in impairments from now on. They also appear to have booked a lower profit on buying their debt than RBS did (£745m against RBS' £3.8m....from what I note in the Interims)...these benefits will not be inevidence so much next time, if at all.
Lloyds also believe they will be able to book a £+2bn readjustment over the next 6 months (was £+3.7bn for the first 6) which will be beneficial, + the ongoing cost savings.
Lloyds state that they will make a full year loss, but at what rate is that loss being reduced? Why pay £15bn+ for the APS, if you have to absorb the first £25bn yourself (c.£10.4bn attributable from the latest results, and believed to reduce significantly over the next 6 months).
For Lloyds the current APS arrangement no longer looks approriate, but at what cost and to whom (the small shareholder?). The amount raised by a rights issue needs to be assessed realistically. How much money genuinely needs to be put into the pot to keep the FSA happy regards capital ratio (which currently looks better than RBS from what I can glean)
It will be a while before RBS shake off the non-core loss making side....and return to a profitable bank. The latest accounts for the core business show a profit before tax of £6.3bn for 6 months (though this may include the debt buy back profit of £3.8bn).
Somewhere behind the figures from these banks lies profitability for the future.....your guess is now to work out how much and whether your holding is going to be diluted out of sight
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
RBS non-core business is losing money hand over fist (£9.6bn for the last 6 months) is expected to continue to do so, and may not yet have peaked. Their participation in the APS looks a done deal.
Lloyds on the other hand believe that the rate of losses should now be in decline, and they expect a significant reduction in impairments from now on. They also appear to have booked a lower profit on buying their debt than RBS did (£745m against RBS' £3.8m....from what I note in the Interims)...these benefits will not be inevidence so much next time, if at all.
Lloyds also believe they will be able to book a £+2bn readjustment over the next 6 months (was £+3.7bn for the first 6) which will be beneficial, + the ongoing cost savings.
Lloyds state that they will make a full year loss, but at what rate is that loss being reduced? Why pay £15bn+ for the APS, if you have to absorb the first £25bn yourself (c.£10.4bn attributable from the latest results, and believed to reduce significantly over the next 6 months).
For Lloyds the current APS arrangement no longer looks approriate, but at what cost and to whom (the small shareholder?). The amount raised by a rights issue needs to be assessed realistically. How much money genuinely needs to be put into the pot to keep the FSA happy regards capital ratio (which currently looks better than RBS from what I can glean)
It will be a while before RBS shake off the non-core loss making side....and return to a profitable bank. The latest accounts for the core business show a profit before tax of £6.3bn for 6 months (though this may include the debt buy back profit of £3.8bn).
Somewhere behind the figures from these banks lies profitability for the future.....your guess is now to work out how much and whether your holding is going to be diluted out of sight
The problem that Lloyds have is that there's initial agreement is that the Gov will subscribe to Lloyds B shares at a price of 115p per share......as they are currently trading at 100p per share it will be difficult not to seriously upset the small shareholders.
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
RBS non-core business is losing money hand over fist (£9.6bn for the last 6 months) is expected to continue to do so, and may not yet have peaked. Their participation in the APS looks a done deal.
Lloyds on the other hand believe that the rate of losses should now be in decline, and they expect a significant reduction in impairments from now on. They also appear to have booked a lower profit on buying their debt than RBS did (£745m against RBS' £3.8m....from what I note in the Interims)...these benefits will not be inevidence so much next time, if at all.
Lloyds also believe they will be able to book a £+2bn readjustment over the next 6 months (was £+3.7bn for the first 6) which will be beneficial, + the ongoing cost savings.
Lloyds state that they will make a full year loss, but at what rate is that loss being reduced? Why pay £15bn+ for the APS, if you have to absorb the first £25bn yourself (c.£10.4bn attributable from the latest results, and believed to reduce significantly over the next 6 months).
For Lloyds the current APS arrangement no longer looks approriate, but at what cost and to whom (the small shareholder?). The amount raised by a rights issue needs to be assessed realistically. How much money genuinely needs to be put into the pot to keep the FSA happy regards capital ratio (which currently looks better than RBS from what I can glean)
It will be a while before RBS shake off the non-core loss making side....and return to a profitable bank. The latest accounts for the core business show a profit before tax of £6.3bn for 6 months (though this may include the debt buy back profit of £3.8bn).
Somewhere behind the figures from these banks lies profitability for the future.....your guess is now to work out how much and whether your holding is going to be diluted out of sight
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
RBS non-core business is losing money hand over fist (£9.6bn for the last 6 months) is expected to continue to do so, and may not yet have peaked. Their participation in the APS looks a done deal.
Lloyds on the other hand believe that the rate of losses should now be in decline, and they expect a significant reduction in impairments from now on. They also appear to have booked a lower profit on buying their debt than RBS did (£745m against RBS' £3.8m....from what I note in the Interims)...these benefits will not be inevidence so much next time, if at all.
Lloyds also believe they will be able to book a £+2bn readjustment over the next 6 months (was £+3.7bn for the first 6) which will be beneficial, + the ongoing cost savings.
Lloyds state that they will make a full year loss, but at what rate is that loss being reduced? Why pay £15bn+ for the APS, if you have to absorb the first £25bn yourself (c.£10.4bn attributable from the latest results, and believed to reduce significantly over the next 6 months).
For Lloyds the current APS arrangement no longer looks approriate, but at what cost and to whom (the small shareholder?). The amount raised by a rights issue needs to be assessed realistically. How much money genuinely needs to be put into the pot to keep the FSA happy regards capital ratio (which currently looks better than RBS from what I can glean)
It will be a while before RBS shake off the non-core loss making side....and return to a profitable bank. The latest accounts for the core business show a profit before tax of £6.3bn for 6 months (though this may include the debt buy back profit of £3.8bn).
Somewhere behind the figures from these banks lies profitability for the future.....your guess is now to work out how much and whether your holding is going to be diluted out of sight
The problem that Lloyds have is that there's initial agreement is that the Gov will subscribe to Lloyds B shares at a price of 115p per share......as they are currently trading at 100p per share it will be difficult not to seriously upset the small shareholders.
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
The big institutions will be happy (and can afford) to subscribe, but the small man on the street may struggle.
hmm...the "Invalid Data" problem.
sorry for the multiple posts folks
sorry for the multiple posts folks
Cant help but wonder the motives of politicians and Mr Hester in the current share price yo yo. Do they not want the share price to peak too soon so that bonuses cause outrage and good news is discounted by the next election ?
I would assume that RBS do not care a jot about the current government and will await the arrival of Mr Cameron.
I am sure Mr Hester is being made fully aware of what is needed by the treasury mandarins who have been handpicked by guess who ? My guess is a big pick up by party conference time.
Could be true ~ for a year is a long time in politics.
i bought 2360 RBS shares at 44.91 (including commissions) on my own thinking and im very happy with them so far.
Have shafted their staff so up goes the share price.
Scrapped final salary pensions.
Scrapped final salary pensions.
Steptoes
Enjoy the good news whilst it lasts. All those that told you to leave the shares alone are conspicuous by their abscence from your thread
Enjoy the good news whilst it lasts. All those that told you to leave the shares alone are conspicuous by their abscence from your thread
why are banks shares up so fast lloyds rbs but not barc.pi**ssed off had chance to buy lloyds shares at 38p but was 6 hours to late
barc shares have just come off the back of a incredible run!
shame the ftse having a bad day. would have been a result.
made 27% profit in less than a month but im not sure if i should get out now or wait a few years to see if i can double/treble my investment. im in no need of cash in short term so im thinking leave it
what are they saying about banks lloyds rbs barc what price this time next year how much div do you think you get for, your 20 oddk shares
Sold most of my shares today for 56.4p
Happy with my profit
Happy with my profit
STEPTOES YARD
Wow...you have shocked me. I thought you were in for the long term?
I have been in since 36p and have on many occasions considered selling, especially with the doom mongers predicting the end is nigh. I haven't sold and am keeping for at least 5 years.
I may well regret it, but i am confident that in 5 years I will have made the right decision.
Kinda gutted you sold ...
Wow...you have shocked me. I thought you were in for the long term?
I have been in since 36p and have on many occasions considered selling, especially with the doom mongers predicting the end is nigh. I haven't sold and am keeping for at least 5 years.
I may well regret it, but i am confident that in 5 years I will have made the right decision.
Kinda gutted you sold ...
Steptoes
I too am surprised. I honestly believe that in 5-10 years time teh shares will have rocketed, leavinga massive profit!
Fair play to you though, if your plan was for a quick profit you have done well! Hope your are not the tyope to come on here when the shares fall in value saying we should have all sold! LOL I know you wouldnt do that!.....would you ?
I too am surprised. I honestly believe that in 5-10 years time teh shares will have rocketed, leavinga massive profit!
Fair play to you though, if your plan was for a quick profit you have done well! Hope your are not the tyope to come on here when the shares fall in value saying we should have all sold! LOL I know you wouldnt do that!.....would you ?
Tbh needed some of the funds out and just decided why im at it to take them all out. Have been slightly concerned with 2 recent retraces. Will keep my eye on these shares still.
Good luck to all those still involved. Agree that long term still good investment
Good luck to all those still involved. Agree that long term still good investment
STEPTOES YARD 01 Sep 23:14
Sold most of my shares today for 56.4p
Happy with my profit
Got to be the first to congratulate you STEPTOES YARD :)
Well done!
On this occasion when I posted I got it wrong :(
However, I still maintain this has been artificially pumped up and is/was rising on thin air.
In other words a good time to get out. imo.
But still WD.
Sold most of my shares today for 56.4p
Happy with my profit
Got to be the first to congratulate you STEPTOES YARD :)
Well done!
On this occasion when I posted I got it wrong :(
However, I still maintain this has been artificially pumped up and is/was rising on thin air.
In other words a good time to get out. imo.
But still WD.
1. General sentiment that the markets have risen too much too quickly
2. Uncertainty about more rights issues and therfore more dilution
3. Doubts about the extent of the APS
2. Uncertainty about more rights issues and therfore more dilution
3. Doubts about the extent of the APS
Smileys points encompass the key issues for both RBS and Lloyds. And it is points 2 and 3 that force the markets to think about point 1.
Without 2 and 3 the share price wouldnt have been anchored around the 50 to 55p mark. But the APS remains, and is a huge millstone on the share price
Without 2 and 3 the share price wouldnt have been anchored around the 50 to 55p mark. But the APS remains, and is a huge millstone on the share price
Well done Steptoes. Your plan was a short term punt and it paid of. I am in for the long haul, and am not concerned about a drop in share price over two weeks.
RBS /NAt West are lending more mortgage money than anyother bank at excellent rates. They are a money making machine at present. Assett prices/stock markets/houseprices have not dropped liek predicted, and this is only goog for strengthening banks position
RBS /NAt West are lending more mortgage money than anyother bank at excellent rates. They are a money making machine at present. Assett prices/stock markets/houseprices have not dropped liek predicted, and this is only goog for strengthening banks position
Good luck Chisel.
Like your positive attitude on here.
Like your positive attitude on here.
The_LUFCwaffe
Interesting. If the government 2 years ago were to announce that they were going to buy the biggest Bank in the country then questions would have been asked. Now like you say the government could soon own them. they will make shed loads of cash in the coming years and all masked as a bailout rather than a takeover. stinks for me. I personally think lloyds may avoid a takeover but the more I see what the govenment are doing the more I think that RBS could well end up in the hands of the taxpayer, which will be good for them but not for those that currently hold shares. Another point is that if they now own shares in 3 major banks, would their not be a case to say that this should be looked in to, im sure this cant be right.
Interesting. If the government 2 years ago were to announce that they were going to buy the biggest Bank in the country then questions would have been asked. Now like you say the government could soon own them. they will make shed loads of cash in the coming years and all masked as a bailout rather than a takeover. stinks for me. I personally think lloyds may avoid a takeover but the more I see what the govenment are doing the more I think that RBS could well end up in the hands of the taxpayer, which will be good for them but not for those that currently hold shares. Another point is that if they now own shares in 3 major banks, would their not be a case to say that this should be looked in to, im sure this cant be right.
Looks like steptoe was fortunate whether short or long term but called it right.
RBS has admitted that it is def going into the APS.
Goodbye share price.
Goodbye share price.
RBS was always going into the APS.
I wish I had sold too rather than see my paper profits dwindle.
That said I am still long term and am still very confident that i will be welll rewarded in the long run.
I wish I had sold too rather than see my paper profits dwindle.
That said I am still long term and am still very confident that i will be welll rewarded in the long run.
Steptoes done well, but I am in for the long haul. I think when banks start reporting again we will see share prices start to rise. Remember, for many there was massive profits in RBS having risen from 10 pence!
Similar to Fannie and freddie.. there are toughs and bounces at the moment due to manilulation, but these are solid gold for long term at current price
you must need your brains testing if you buy shares in this mob.
zero value in this crock of **
down to 0p :D
hope this helps
down to 0p :D
hope this helps
I know it seems horrible but it cant be as bad as it seems!!
They have a "stand-alone strength" plan that looks like it will take them up to 2013/14 depending on how they are performing. IMO its one to hold off until they are free (or look to be coming out of if your timing is right) from APS as the b shares issue means that they share price will be held under 65p.
think they will end the year around where they are now, as a long term play they are a decent bet.
massive bonuses in place for top brass if they get to 80p so over the 2 year period I sense they will get back to nearer £1 a share.
massive bonuses in place for top brass if they get to 80p so over the 2 year period I sense they will get back to nearer £1 a share.
yep!. It needs to, but lets face it...It is a long and windy road for RBS/Lloyds, but with no dividends being paid for the forseeable future the strength of these banks is increasing by the day... I like this, as all teh value is being added to the share price with nothing being stripped out
Northern Rock has now been split in two. The good bank and the bad bank. Expect some big news soon!
Northern Rock has now been split in two. The good bank and the bad bank. Expect some big news soon!
i've never heard such a circular argument in my life. take a step back and think about what you've just written chisel.
the shares are awesome because they're not paying divs. magic.
the shares are awesome because they're not paying divs. magic.
Going up at the moment, i have a decent chunk invested in RBS. I hope it will be close to a pound this time next year.
I don't think it can be anywhere near a pound whilst under HMG wing because of the b shares.
Hard to anaylse with company choice allowances for bad debts. I wonder does "stand-alone strength" mean following guidelines created by the doomed Basel III?
18.75p is chisel and Timeforchange still in this share? 
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