LIQUIDITY...WHERE IS IT????

really! maybe because of the amount of matches played at the same time.. let´s hope for the 2nd round to be better :)

there is no money whatsoever on the dog side of the market and they are cross-matched?

yes, they are.. that means there's not a huge amount of money in the favorite, as usual

i know they are, that was my point. not normal compared to matches everywhere else, same in the aussie warm up tourneys

probably because in Oz on TV you cannot see any match on TV except Duckworth and Mitchell , no Fed match, no Tsonga etc...

So unless you are streaming on the web No idea what is going on to have a bet.

cant see the delpo match either atm, it is a joke!!!

Federer, Tsonda, Delpo all on eurosport and on internet too

Tsonga

In Aus their are 2 channels, 1 pay the other free to air, both showing the same match between the Aussies.

don't mind the patriotism but if free is showing one match why is the pay channel showing the same match as well!!

couldn't disagree to this logic at 1st thought, but if you had to pay in advance you've paid for nothing, so it does make sense

guess what these channel schedule freaks are doing now.

Duckworth and Mitchell over why don't we both flick over to the Cilic Matsovec match.....


Un f....king believable!!!!

we pay for eurosport to but obviously they had the Oz rights to Auckland ATP but not Oz open.

Stuff pay, I will watch the slight delayed free channel version so they lose ratings

I am watching replays of the footy and seeing the tennis live scores from the web f... them!!!!

Worst slam liquidity I have ever seen

I only play the handicaps and the liquidity in pretty much every sport I bet has seemingly nose-dived since the end of the last tennis season.  PDC darts WC was shocking compared to previous years, I gave up completely on the BDO and so far on the Tomic match there's been about £130 matched since the first set started....and most of that was a price that had been left up as a 'keep bet'....

Worrying times, TBH....

Popped in to see if there was a thread about the dismal liquidity (not just on match odds).  Looks like I've found it.

Well looking at the current ongoing matches of the Australian Open I really wonder why is it that the availability of odds and therefore the overall volume of traded money on these markets is so bad, compared for example with the other grand slam tennis tournaments or even small ones. Why isn't betfair acutally promoting the tennis matches from the Austrialian Open on their landing page? Is this a legal issue regarding Australian betting regulations?

Well, many people, like me, do not have money in the Australian wallet and can not bet on these events.
I found myself quite complicated to put money there so this tournament follow him on other books.

well putting money in the Australian wallet is just a two click action?! Same as using betfair exchange games. But agreed, this might be a reason.

I live in Italy and here things are a little 'complicated

By Regulation Betfair 's authentication Australian account:

Any documents sent directly proving your identity, it must be endorsed by a professional belonging to one of the following categories:

doctors,
dentists
Vets
teachers
pharmacists
lawyers
Police
Elected members of the Government
Ensure that certification is valid, it is necessary that the person proving your identity to sign the document, remembering to specify your name and occupation. Please do not send original documents to the staff of Betfair. In case you want to avoid this scenario, if you live in Britain or Australia it is possible to examine the documents in any post office and to deliver the details to Betfair. In this way you will be able to prove your identity and avoid to send you copies of the same documents. All details on this method can be found in the help pages.

And I do not want to ask anything to my vet ...

wat coutry has most betfair users? we have lost a few european countries i believe. spain, portugal and greece i think

Also from 'Italy would not be possible to bet on Betfair
[: wink:]
er ... say that I follow only this forum without betting ...

betfair.com of course... on betfair.it it is possible,  but there not exists exchange...

That's what happens when you take too much (pc charge) from the people that sit in front of a screen day in day putting up prices to make your product viable.  I've noticed markets slowly dying over the last couple of years.

can't remember cross matching was used in previous years on Aussie wallet?

Liquidity on AO was always worse than in other slams, for me it's sufficient in match markets in play, outside courts often had low liqu at AO due to time difference.

But in general liquidity has dropped much on BF, have to realize in football prime leagues

Prior to 3MPs I'd had £34 matched in-play on the HC in the Wickmayer match....  It's scary to think that that was a GS match - the only match ongoing at that time too....  It was like betting on Purple....

The Scott Ferguson interview on the General Betting forum hits the nail on the head imo.

I think there are a number of reasons.

1. economic activity down less money about i know a freebie

2. greater involvement of bookmaker activity looking to manipulate as well as other trading clubs  liking to influence prices

3. grand slam versus exhibition tennis in terms of perceived value/risks and potential game changers

4. communist obstacles in OZ regarding online flexibility regarding trading.

5. In adequate TV coverage.

6. Not a big betting tennis populous in Aus particularly when some high volume players where potentially notoriously pushed off shore apparently by the social police/governors, while the bigger overseas players are in a different time xone and remote in terms of the event

7. Other...

tv coverage i think is big problem. as boy stated same game was on both chs in aus and how many people actually stream the matches. also time zone difference is big

TV-wise, who's got what in the UK this year?  Eurosport?  Are the Beeb behind the red button?  In theory you can't bet in-running online in Australia anyway, can you, so isn't that argument irrelevant?

To my mind, this isn't just related to this event anyway.  As I stated above, the peripheral markets in the PDC and BDO WCs were appalling compared to previous years. 

john23 - where should I be looking for that interview?  Couldn't see anything on a quick scan down the page...

Lat - posted by Coner - for those not in at the start of Betfair.

I agree with your sentiments re. the side markets - these have been in terminal decline - snooker frames, rugby h'cps darts leg betting.  All these rely on market makers that are now punished to make a market.  I'm not buying this poor tv coverage, recession etc.  There has been far too many posts re liquidity lately on all forums - the one by Bayes on general betting being a good example.  The high street bookies seem to be doing okay to blame this on the economy.

why do u think liquidy is poor john? perhaps to many markets?

Cheers John.  Will have a butcher's. 

I tell you what, I have never been rejected like I am these days with Oz bookmakers, even $20 dollar bets are getting rationalised!!!

the ouright market for tennis is absurd for a reason and it relates back to match markets as well absolute joke imo.

having said that if I was in UK I should make a  fortune from turnover online today and other days that you just can't do over the phone cause you miss the jump but i am not privy to the delays in coverage.

i think the interview is something like 'centre court trading', interesting article, just guessing if this is what the poster is talking about!!

if this article is true someone is really blowing a quality product!!

Bhoys the reason 'certain' markets are in decline is BF's attitude to the people that spend hours putting up prices on events. Without market makers this place will die a slow death or migrate to somewhere else.  A good example is the weekend rugby handicaps that the IG bot would price up constantly (albeit with a large overroung) during a game. Players would always have an option of hedgeing a position throughout the game.  They pulled out and now manual market makers are charged 20 50 or 60% to fill the void. If you was a rec. player that wanted to green out an origianl bet you now have now choice, so are probably buggering of to pp, lads, hills etc.  Now these markets are ghost towns for the average aviva league match that was once friving.  I've seen the same decline in snooker markets - tennis markets etc.

What do you mean market makers putting up prices ???

isn't it laisse faire but I must admit cappers seem to be in place!!!

Wildone - you want to back Murray - 6.5 games in next match - someone posting up 'sensible' prices throughout the match on both outcomes to enable users to trade / bet during a match with confidence.  Something Latalomne will do but is now punished with pc charges (i presume).

Pretty sure I've read that before, John, but good to revisit it all the same! 

While I agree that there has been a steady decline in recent years, it does feel very markedly to me as if something's changed since the end of the last tennis season.  I wonder how much of an impact the German and Austrian bans in November have had? 

I might not put up substantial amounts but I do market-make in-play on the tennis HCs (and did on the darts) and there's just been no backer's money on the other side of the screen at all this week.  Nobody asking for ANYTHING, other than a few keep bets at the start of the match.... 

Maybe Laddies taking over Purple will end up doing us all some good! 

John 23??? what do you mean market makers are charged???

in some way it is a good thing cause I know some markets are wrong, problem is the price mechanism isn't being discovered to create the activity from value discovery.

Unless you can go both ways back or lay you can't take advantage of such market bias though IMO.


Seems like the only way to play tennis might be in the run in a match like Dolgopolov and Monfils where there are enough variables to checkmate the technicians

Wildone - are you aware of the Betfair Premium Charge?

Lat - I know the Lads aquistion will be a shot in the arm to BF - and they have a huge marketing budget - I fear their ultimate target is here.  They have a market cap three times of BFs and with BF's share price at a 52 week low and dropping they are vunerable. The timing of Lads seems to entry seems to add up.  Death of the bookmaker was the original mantra - what a joke.

I am not a bookie and just googled the premium charge.

okay so bookies are in play and are framing markets and get hit a premium charge.

this was suspected anyway ,

interesting,

why can't some bookies  take a risk on some markets like they used to in the old days at the ponies???


shift a 1.20 shot out to a 1.22 shot or something???

You are not getting the volume because the value is not there!!!

I am only involved in some markets due to covering prepost value achieved. Trying to extract anything more systematically is like getting blood out of a stone.

Probably means I am going to have to be more selective to adjust for the confirmed bias unless things modify

If you didn't have to get on the phone to bet in play here in Australia I'd put up some nice odds for ya.

Austrians are not banned from BF exchange, only Germans are, I'm still there. Where I noticed a marked decline in liquidity compared to previous years as well is in Biathlon, probaly due to Germans absent

I've noticed the fall in liquidity in the types of markets/sports you guys are talking about.

I pay 50% PC. One way to try and reduce this is to have larger wins/losses rather than trying to be all green on a market.  As a result, I place something like 1/2 - maybe even a 1/3 - of the bets I previously did as I'm only playing one side.

Example: I think a fair price for something is 2.00 but the price is hovering around 1.90-2.00.  Pre-PC I'd lay at 1.90 and back at 2.00-2.04 to green up.  Now I'd lay at 1.90 and not bother with backing at 2.00-2.04.  Result: I win more, my % charges paid is higher which helps reduce my PC, liquidity is down as I'm no longer backing at 2.00.

I'm sure there are plenty of other changes people have made as a result of the PC.

This is a real concern.
It's just an extension of the lack of liquidity in general. Practically all side markets are virtually dead (NFL, Rugby and Darts in particular)

Same as you Templeton.
I'm on 50% also and where I would previously make multiple trades throught a match, now I make a fraction of those as I'm leaving bets longer.
I'm also offering poorer value prices, because should I want to trade out I can't half the time.

The fair is going down the drain. It's now over run with bookmakers manipulating.  It's time for a new exchange. Sad but true.

On a slightly different note but maybe relevant you get hardly anyone on the forums either. Used to be a gig part of the tournaments the frum for me
Maybe the betfair cops handing out bans by the handful has resulted in many punters pis sing off elsewhere with their money

Doubt it's anything to do with the bans. The forum was pretty much dead during the AO last year too. I remember putting up several threads myself, just to try and get some posts going. No dice though.   

I think what the low number of forum posters tells you is that few of the regular posters bet significant sums. Somehow, it won't seem worth it to them to be up at 4, 5 in the morning placing two pound bets...

bookmakers getting carried away pushing Jokers price down as they struggle to find suckers willing to take the bait

bit pissed i missed the 2.02 though

.