Welsh Open

A few makeable balls being missed from both players.

first chance for ronnie to level the match since it began and he messes it up

poor choice of shot from robertson!

wow this is like watching a tennis match between Dimitrov & Goffin

5-5 confirmed

or bouchard vs sevastova

ros is going to win from here i think. robbo making one too many errors.

robertson should probably be 7-3 up, would think he'll get punished

yeah that's gotta hurt you mentally, knowing you should be 6-4 up minimum, 7-3 up really

did ne1 bet on the fa cup. i cant belive the side man city put out. they deservedly got battered. i made £50 would have made a killing if i had my eyes on it when line ups were announced.

Wonderful pot

wiseone pm'd

paypal works insantly through the phone app

robertson poor choice of shot again. what is he doing?

he was bad yesterday as well, just allen was more useless

and allen still nearly came back from 2-5 to 5-5

choking little bitch..pathetic wimp

5-2 to 5-7. Match has flipped on its head.

sure has

as soon as it went 5-5 it was looking bad for him and now it seems finished, guess the first frame after mid session will decide

You can't count him out completely but Robertson will be kicking himself. How does he find himself behind after so many opportunities. O'Sullivan should go on to win now.

well ronnie takes the 1st 4 this evening, so now it gets really interesting, hasn't played fantasticly, but his control of the cue ball is, which has helped him win these frames with Robertson missing some as well

Feb 21, 2016 -- 1:35PM, johnnythebull wrote:

just another run of the mill choker

Robertson is no choker, thats for sure. He's just missed some balls

seaking, bit weird that it works on the phone app but not the website?

yeh I know

u watching the roma game? dkzeko just missed an unreal open goal

so it still doesn't work on the website? I'll have to get the Paypal app tomorrow if it doesn't

havent tried the wesbie so far 2day

nah not got the Roma game on. I watched Valencia earlier, having backed them @ 2.6. was fuming at the end though, they gubbed u2.5 1.01 and I'd been thinking about how to bust low odds today, and missed this chance right under my nose

is Ding gonna regain his top form seaking? or was this tournament a 1 off?

wonder how long Dominic Dale spends practicing his way of speaking

ding will be back

Feb 21, 2016 -- 2:22PM, wisewords wrote:

wonder how long Dominic Dale spends practicing his way of speaking

.

he tries to sound very well spoken. i'm sure he's practiced that way of speaking. it doesn't sound natural enough

seaking did Rafa sicken you last night?

Didnt see first 12 frames but if all i knew was O'Sullivan's high break was 70 and long pot success rate was 50 per cent, i'd have guessed Robertson was at least 7-5 ahead. Must be very poor from him.

Feb 21, 2016 -- 2:27PM, wisewords wrote:

he tries to sound very well spoken. i'm sure he's practiced that way of speaking. it doesn't sound natural enough

dunno it feels natural to me, whereas when someone like rio ferdinand tries to sound well spoken he comes off as trying too hard

Willie jinxed him then. Ronnie breaks down on 61

so poor Robbo

Robertson at his best would have won this match. O'Sullivan 8-5 up with a high break of only 70.

6 in a row

Feb 21, 2016 -- 2:34PM, YOMOMMA wrote:

Robertson at his best would have won this match. O'Sullivan 8-5 up with a high break of only 70.

o'sullivan at his best would have won this 9-2 with the way robertson has played

what a kicking

wonder if he wants to go for a 147

He's going to win 9-5 having played just alright for him and having won 7 frames in a row. Robertson must be disappointed.

Robertson has had chances in nearly all the frames.

Rip Neil of the Robertsons from Ozzie land

cricketnut2    21 Feb 16 20:10 
Feb 21, 2016 -- 7:35PM, johnnythebull wrote:

just another run of the mill choker

Robertson is no choker, thats for sure. He's just missed some balls

ur having a f*cking larf,dude
yeah,he's just missed a few balls cos he's shat himself
get ursel' to specsavers

no century in the whole match

until now

141 finish wasn't bad.

is Ronnie the best ever?

He will be by the time he's retired. Will end up overtaking all of Hendry's records.

Feb 21, 2016 -- 2:29PM, wisewords wrote:

seaking did Rafa sicken you last night?

yes, to the core

he's 40 now and still playing genius snooker

wasn't Hendry a shell of a his great self by 40?

mercurial,capricious,fluent genius and a battler as well
no one to touch him
just intimidates everyone on the circuit

Feb 21, 2016 -- 2:45PM, wisewords wrote:

wasn't Hendry a shell of a his great self by 40?

ronnie has had a lot of gaps in between, hendry just goated for 10 years straight

Ridiculous performance from a ridiculously talented man. No question the best ever. Could win another three or four World Championships imo.

a rolls royce who plays at dragster speed

Would beat most pros left handed.

Just shows you the lack of great players that have come through when Ronnie can patronise Neil like that in his winners speech. Robbo and Selby are very good players but won't ever be among the greats imo and Judd will never get within an asses roar of it.

Trump has the talent to win trophies but doesn't produce consistently when it matters.

Ronnie my friend, could beat anybody who's ever played the game. F A C T

You do realise just how good Neil Robinson is I hope. Ronnie is just on another level to anyone who has ever played. He puts so much pressure on players. They know if try cant afford any lapses or its over.

Robertson .

agree with hitman

Yes I think I have a fair grasp on how good Robertson is, i'm just saying I don't rank him as one of the greats of the game, not yet anyway. 2 UK titles, 2 masters, a world champ - that's not bad, but overall his World Champs record is fairly moderate and I think there were flaws in his game exposed today. O'Sullivan didn't play particularly well from what i saw.

Absolute mugfest tey again,surely these players have to turn up some time absolutely pathetic..

Balls have never entered the pockets so easily as they do today on these super cloths, they will slide in and that is why every player has improved his long game and the breakoff has become so important.

Tiddlywinks has become more interesting than todays snooker game and is the major reason why the game is struggling to find new talent.
Ronnie will boss these tables and players because they are not as difficult as those he learned his skill against and its also the major reason why so many of Hendry's victims have found a second coming.

Trump and Robertson are the best of a bad bunch that in earlier days would have barely made the 16, neither are long on bottle or craft as Gentleman John so rightly suggests.
Davis and his Parrot are searching for answers as to why so many older players are extending their careers and appearing in so many latter stages but the answer is simple, its because tables have become easier to make a big break on but its gone too far and the game is being dumbed down.

A young Hendry would have destroyed this lot and while you have to admire Ronnies performances he is not as good as he once was but he does not have to be and that is a great sadness for the game.

Good to hear from you moondan and glad to see you're still "enjoying" the snooker. I wouldn't say i'd get as fixated as you about the whole dumbing down angle, the game is what it is as far as i'm concerned, but would accept you hvae a point as to how the oldies are able to remain competitive long after they should have been put out to pasture. At least I've yet to hear a more compelling argument put forward. I'd love to hear hendry's take on it, I mean his real honest, off the record opinion and how he thinks he'd fare in his 40s under today's conditions.

Have to admit it makes me slightly uneasy to hear commentators waxing lyrical about today's standards as centuries are racked up in virtually every second frame. I can accept players are improving technically, that's just logical really, but not that the standards are all that superior to the 90s or 80s or even before. Certainly not on the mental side of the game anyway! Or to put it another way, the Sheriff and Kyren Wilson sharing 6 consecutive tons or whatever it was the other week merely makes me wonder about things as opposed to seeing them as superstars of the game.

Prof Steve Peters has worked wonders for Ronnie imo :)

Gentlemanjohn,

I watch the odd match now but the conditions have changed the game to make the big breaks easier.

I was tuned into 411 the other day and for the first time heard a commentator give a sensible explanation for what has happened to the game and he put it very simply just saying the conditions of today are very different to those a few years ago and players of a decade ago were better at some things than those playing on these super cloths each, required different skills.

That does not tell the full story but it leaves the heavier cloth player with a little more respect which is fully deserved.

Tables of this past 6-7 years have become progressively slicker as the game has tried everything to eradicate the kick.  They are fully aware that if they returned to the thicker cloth it would make big breaks less common.

Gentlemanjohn,

I had to post earlier than I wanted because I keep being logged off.

I am glad to read your comments because you have seen the decades pass and understand that science has had its input in all sport and none moreso than snooker with improved surfaces to play on. Todays player can exploit conditions that did not exist just a few years ago.

Things move on in all things but that does not make it better, for me its less skillful but understand others may see that differently but what we can all agree on is, it has changed and completely unfair to compare different tests.

Re  Hendry,
For me he will always be the hardest player to beat that has ever played the game and he has the record to prove that, he has also compiled 7 centuries in 10 frames in a uk final a feat Ronnie has yet to do.

Ronnie will never win 7 world titles because he has one weakness and that is top class bottle.

Anyway , he is great to watch but he needs to prove he is the best and fans should remember Hendry won all his titles on the table, not bestowed with questionable opinion.
I will pop in now and again but most tournaments are little better than pool matches and after 50 years of being a fan of the game its tough to take.

It is like pool tables so you get next to no tactical or safety play which is a shame. That was and should be an integral part of the game.

I agree with nearly everything you say Moondan(gis by the way)it has become farcical players that were cannon fodder 10-15 years ago now reaching finals,semis and even world totles in binghams case.These players have suddenly improved mark davis,joe perry,how mark Williams is winning any matches is beyond me he's playing at 20% of his game.Anyone who's been watching the game for at lest 20 years can see there's blatently something going on with the tables century after century it's beyond a joke and like you it think it's become monotonous we're even almost getting a 147 evey other tournament as well all the players know the tables are playing easier so take everything on.That is completely ruining the game as you say it just turns it into a game of pool and much reduced skill...
take a look on general betting I;m running the best thread on betfair...

gigs!!

Mark Davis ,Joe Perry and Mark Williams might win matches but they will not win titles. Eddie Charlton ,Doug Mountjoy and Terry Griffiths were winning matches in their forties so I don't get it. Ronnie lacks top level bottle ? Do me a favour lol. Also I wouldn't be at all surprised if he won 7 or even more World titles Moondan. You were telling us he wouldn't win another one five years ago !

I dont agree ROS lacks bottle, he's a headcase but nothing to do with bottle imo, but as regards the age factor, it's obvious something has changed. There are 5 players over 40 in the current top 16, go back 10 years to 1996 and there was only 2 (Davis, White) or 20 years to '96 and there's only 1 (Griffiths). The average age of the top 16 in '96 was 30 compared to 36 now. Obviously, the average age plummeted in the 90s cos of the new wave that came through when the game was opened up in '92. But the age has been going up gradually ever since, and perhaps there are logical explanations for that, but I believe it's plausible enough, as moondan suggests, that conditions are playing a part.

Real snooker fans know the truth,if you've been watching it for 20-30 years it's blatently obvious,it was getting suspect 5/6 years ago I remember on here all the bollox about the standards so high bullsh1t never believed it but couldn't put finger on it.Infact it just seems to be getting worse and worse so has become even more obvious,especially to the shrewdies not the fanboys new era of snooker watchers!!

I believe the pockets/cloth/conditions are easier but I still think O Sullivan is the best ever by a mile.

hitman76 - by a mile? There is a legitimate argument regarding whether O'Sullivan is actually better than Hendry, so to say he is by a mile is ludicrous. Under no  objective criteria is O'Sullivan substantially ahead of Hendry, other than longevity. But, it's a subject best debated during Sheffield, when opinions, either way, will become even more polarised!

Hendry on different planet to any known player in history of the game and I was a white,higgins fan and o'sullivan when he was younger,hendry was unbeatable at his best but even when he played poorly would suddenly take out unbelievable pressure clearences from knowhere.Have never seen or will there ever be a player that has done both,a true champion and battler o'sullivan great front runner but knowhere near the class of Hendry when in dire positions infact I would only just have him ahead of john Higgins and davis.

Anybody who comes on here stating pockets were more difficult in years gone by is dreaming, the mid 80's were absolute buckets in comparison with todays, granted the cloth is a massive advantage today but O'Sullivan would make hay with the bigger pockets, and in my opinion would start heavy odds on to beat Hendry both at their peak even on the 80's 90's tables.

does not matter about conditions both same for all. did not see mark allen judd trump higgins name a few ,make many 100s if its that easy ,and as for german open did not see any ?

Kenco

I have to say you are spot on.

The size of pocket is a red herring and have in fact always been the same size except for the middle bag which was cut slightly different in the latter 80s. Alex Higgins had much to say about that in one of his books when he complained to the board that it would have an enormous effect on the game. He was right and Hendry exploited this improvement to the full and gave birth to the modern game called one chance snooker.

Successive shaving of the cloth since the early 90s has mostly come about because the search for eradicating has been both expensive and ongoing.

Now the cloth has eradicated the drift and any deviation the knap once caused and the only problem a player has is controlling the speed and a slide especially down the cushion.
Since the thinner cloth that was used on the cushions and trialed at the Welsh championships some 6 years ago it was found that it impacted on the ability of a ball to enter a pocket because of the slide.
Its biggest effect was to make it far easier to pot balls from behind the baulk line after the break.
The improvement in potting  has been sold as player advancement but wiser heads will understand that is not the case. The hard fact is that conditions have never been better for a potting fest and it has not been accidental it came about because they think thats what the public want.
Unfortunately thee has been a downside, most fans of the game are not fooled and the lack of quality players coming through tells a sorry story.

Exactly they keep trying to spoon feed punters who know zilch about snooker that leaving one red off the break costs the game unlike years ago,that's because the players are better now standards have ridden utter bullsh1t.And like you say,why are players going to try playing too much safety when the tables are far easier to pot on or take on shots along the rails that you normally would never consider,completely spoilt the game.The players with real table craft are at a huge disadvantage just because they have a tighter game,i can't even weatch it anymore I never watched any of the final last year.All I remember is about 200 shots over the tournament where players were looking with dismay that balls were droppoing it was farcical..

Re Ronnies bottle.

No player in the history of the game has had more excuses than Ronnie for not winning and this was highlighted before the final started on Sunday when his attention was on his tip, he was in fact preparing the audience for defeat against Robbo.
Most fans of the snooker game think Robbo lost that game and Ronnie picked up the pieces.
Robbo bottled that game big time and he knows it but many do against Ronnie.

I think Ronnie in the 90s was up against a tougher breed of player who played a tougher game on thicker cloths and thats why he did not win a worlds.
I think his success in his last couple of worlds has been down to very kind draws, the odd good player he did meet never turned up for whatever reason and I am thinking of Murphy in particular.

These conditions have turned the game on its head and as a betting medium its a big no no.

Gentlemenjohn.

Hendry checked his cue in because he could see the way it was going and he has the records and money to give the hours and hours of mind blowing practice a miss.
He knows Ronnie has got to win 3 more worlds to beat him and the fact that it took Ronnie 23 years to win 5 its only the Ronnie fanboy dreamers who go to bed thinking that will happen.

thegiggolo - with respect, you need to stick to all weather racing where I am sure you are an expert (and there is no hidden agenda in that comment) ....

moondan - in the first session of the final all the run went Robertson's way - it was only a matter of time before things changed and they did with a vengeance ..

Hendry was a machine - Ronnie is cut from different cloth (excuse the pun) - he is a genius at this sport and without him snooker will struggle - I hope not ....

Any negative comments about Ronnie's bottle are utterly ridiculous - it was not a great final on Sunday but Ronnie got the job done and if he can turn up to events in a similar mental state of mind he will win lots more tournaments against the present opposition.

I find him a joy to watch and it is difficult to say that about many current sportsmen ....

Think you'll find I'm more knowledgeable about snooker than 99.9% of posters on a betfair forum and have played to a decent standard,played some well known pros in late 80s and been watching for 30 years,this is my other account by the way.Not quite as much as the aw but that would be an impossibility...

And whilst I am at it (!!)

moondan - Hendry checked his cue in because his game (as he used to play it) had gone - he could not pot a long ball to save his life - he would not adjust his game to try to overcome that weakness - that may or may not be to his credit - I think he would have played on and on and on if he had still been able to still win ....

I feel the time to fully compare O'Sullivan and Hendry is when the former hangs up his cue - the time taken to accumulate titles is irrelevant - we will just have to see how many of Hendry's titles are in place when Ronnie packs in - not many left at the moment - if Ronnie can get another two World Championships then the argument will have been settled but that is a mountain to climb.

As far as the Oldies are concerned (imo) - the reason they are hanging about is a simple one - the younger players, for whatever reason, are not stepping up to the plate - they should be ashamed of themselves (!!) - simple as that for me.

Enjoyed the thread and all the views expressed.

thegiggolo/kenco - well, that leaves 0.1% !!!!!

Our family is sports orientated - I am not, by nature, particularly modest but I will leave it at that .....

And that .01% certainly don't post on here that's for sure...

Crepello,

Hendry never felt the same after his Historic seventh world title in 99, it was also his greatest achievement and performance against the finest line up that included Ronnie and Williams who he brushed aside with little fuss.
Another reason was his beloved cue that had won him everything was never replaced after being smashed up a couple of seasons later.
When Hendry won that seventh his manager told the tv audience that he was worried that he might not win another because he was spending more  time on the golf course instead of puting his usual practice in.
However you look at it Hendry had nothing left to prove to anyone he had put the work in and deserved his retirement.

Hendry has often said he did not want to be beaten and if he felt his time was up he would not be in it.

I have skipped work to attend tournaments since the late seventies, watched referees iron cloths in the break because it was raining outside and the white would not run a yard. I have seen days when if the white touched the cushion it had no chance of going in the pocket unlike these past few years where it common to drop because of slide and the fact there is no knap to throw it off.

I also saw Davis and Parrot many times when the were great players and were not poor presenters who talk nothing but rubbish and who are guilty of misleading a generation of fans who deserve a better education of how the game has evolved.

Anyway I do have some sympathy with your comments but I can assure you Ronnies only weakness has been his bottle.

Crepello

Its is purely myth that Hendrys long game had gone, in fact it was the 2-3 footers that shocked him so much and much the same was the first to go in Williams Higgins games and Ronnie is doing his share now but the opposition is so poor he is getting away with it.

Robbo had chance after chance to put the match to bed mostly from poor shots from Ronnie and he said exactly that post match.

moondan

Enjoyed reading your considered replies but we see thing differently.

Hendry in his prime was a magnificent player - he usually needed only one bite at the cherry and the frame was gone.

However, whatever the reason, he lost his game - I repeat, he could not pot a long ball to save his life and I was hoping he would adjust his game to overcome this weakness - he would not and that was the end of him - he struggled on for some time but it was all over for him.

Ronnie has made adjustments and that has enabled him to remain competitive - as there are so few young players coming through, I can see him going on for some time ..

I wonder if there are as many young men taking up snooker these days - I doubt it with all the other attractions they have at their disposal - It makes the long term future for snooker look bleak - certainly in the UK.

Finally, I think one of the big differences between Hendry and O'Sullivan is that the former loved WINNING whereas the latter loves SNOOKER.

FWIW i think you're both right, hendry's long game deserted him but he was capable of missing sitters too. It all boiled down to lack of confidence, simple as that, although why he lost it isnt so easy to answer. For some reason he stopped being able to push the cue through on a straight line and was missing pots because he was putting side on the ball and could never fix it. One thing about hendry, he wasn't blessed with massive cue power, relative to his peers like O'Sullivan or White at least, and the faster conditions should definitely have helped him. He must see the way the white zips around the table now, zinging off the cushions, and think to himself, oh to be 21 again!!

Had had that original cue when he was 14 I think,looked completely different player after that he just adapted even though he won plenty of tournaments it was obvious he wasn't as confident or as comfortable with another cue.His cueing completely changed,so was relying being amongst the balls as well so basically playing on iron will and more technical side.I was amazed he played to such a high standard to be honest but it took the natural ability away ,ashame really as I think snooker players should carry on till as long as they can play..

Hope you fellas have been keeping an eye on general betting thread...