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30 May 26
19:21
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Date Joined:
28 Aug 07
How the fck can we have a system that will put into place hard right policies that 75% of the country are against?? And its the same with new labour or any party. Starmers pathetic 33% was bad enough at the last GE.
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There is no possible chance that Reform will form a government with a 24% vote share.
Fairly obvious it means the very strong likelihood of coalition government. Diehard politicos aligned to parties won't like it, but many will have less concern with it. Certainly those, who like bits of more than one party.
Simple choice: either the voters move back from supporting the Greens and the far right, or we change to an electoral system that's fit for purpose for the new environment.
What new environment is this 
People have already stepped back from the greens.
People also have short memories, OMs are quite rare.
No evidence that 'the far right' are having a material impact at elections.
If you don't like the outcome of elections, the obvious answer is to change the system. Certainly cancelling them didn't work ;)
People have already stepped back from the greens.
People also have short memories, OMs are quite rare.
No evidence that 'the far right' are having a material impact at elections.
If you don't like the outcome of elections, the obvious answer is to change the system. Certainly cancelling them didn't work ;)
either the voters move back from supporting the Greens and the far right
I love how porky calls Reform the far right but the Far left Greens are just 'the Greens'.
Give your head a wobble porky.
I love how porky calls Reform the far right but the Far left Greens are just 'the Greens'.
Give your head a wobble porky.
The nonsense about the spread of the vote is exactly that. More Gaslighting. There's Lib dums. snp, labour, greens, tories, labour, ukip. All done well in previous elections.
It's laughable that people try to make out that all of a sudden, more than two parties are getting material votes. The only thing that has changed is that the two that were previously at the top have collapsed.
It's laughable that people try to make out that all of a sudden, more than two parties are getting material votes. The only thing that has changed is that the two that were previously at the top have collapsed.
What new environment is this
A multi-party system instead of a binary choice.
A multi-party system instead of a binary choice.
It's never been a binary choice. Not in my lifetime, anyway.
Your position is intellectually daft, if I may be as bold to say. Effectively your position is that Tories and labour should hold political power forever. As obviously a party isn't destructed overnight, and a new one isn't mainstream overnight. So if labour and Tories are going to be replaced as the dominant powers, a period of flux is inevitable.
Your position is intellectually daft, if I may be as bold to say. Effectively your position is that Tories and labour should hold political power forever. As obviously a party isn't destructed overnight, and a new one isn't mainstream overnight. So if labour and Tories are going to be replaced as the dominant powers, a period of flux is inevitable.
Also as you may recall, I've been stating that left/right in politics is obsolete. If the tories remained right wing, and labour left wing then we wouldn't be seeing this flux scenario.
Coincidentally enough, on rtv today one of the guests stated that it was a Tory minister who tried to bring in affordability checks on gambling. They disgraced a PM for trying to moderately cut tax.
The Tories aren't conservative any more. You might be able to explain the fracturing of the old style left wing, but perhaps a multimillionaire loaning the labour leader his mansion so his son could allegedly study, in exchange for a #10 pass might be up there? And being wedded to the EU, and the culture of woke?
The former dominant parties have cultivated their own downfall.
Coincidentally enough, on rtv today one of the guests stated that it was a Tory minister who tried to bring in affordability checks on gambling. They disgraced a PM for trying to moderately cut tax.
The Tories aren't conservative any more. You might be able to explain the fracturing of the old style left wing, but perhaps a multimillionaire loaning the labour leader his mansion so his son could allegedly study, in exchange for a #10 pass might be up there? And being wedded to the EU, and the culture of woke?
The former dominant parties have cultivated their own downfall.
Well now you're arguing against something I didn't say. Forum going well.
You're claiming it was a binary choice. I can't speak for the entire history of democracy in the UK, but I can speak for the period I've been involved. Brexit was a binary choice, party politics has never been.
Quite interesting isn't it, that ideologically, both left wingers and right wingers would be against the concept of being in the EU. It happened to be the majority of the country that wanted to leave the EU.
But in the binary choice you outlined, both of them were EU sycophants :)
In fact the third choice that you prefer to pretend didn't exist, the liberal 'democrats' were even more sycophantic to the EU.
But in the binary choice you outlined, both of them were EU sycophants :)
In fact the third choice that you prefer to pretend didn't exist, the liberal 'democrats' were even more sycophantic to the EU.
The Times is pro-labour
Tories are EU sycophants
Tories were pro-immigration and pro-benefits because of GDP
All from the last seven days.
Social media is a hell of a drug.
Tories are EU sycophants
Tories were pro-immigration and pro-benefits because of GDP
All from the last seven days.
Social media is a hell of a drug.
All of that is spot on.
the 'binary choice' you speak of, both campaigned for Remain during the referendum. Including, the government. Were you sleeping through this? Out of the country?
the 'binary choice' you speak of, both campaigned for Remain during the referendum. Including, the government. Were you sleeping through this? Out of the country?
Well if your memory stops 11 years ago, then sure.
Who needs evidence anyway?
Who needs evidence anyway?
are being obtuse? the only reason tories rolled behind brexit was self preservation. and did everything in their power to limit the impact of it, in fact ramped up immigration, as has been discussed at length.3
I can absolutely guarantee you, if the tory MPs that were left were canvassed on it, they would still be favourable to the EU.
It's very similar to labour trying to pretend they are now tough on immigration, it's simply a survival strategy.
It doesn't fool the country any longer, hence the recent election outcomes.
I can absolutely guarantee you, if the tory MPs that were left were canvassed on it, they would still be favourable to the EU.
It's very similar to labour trying to pretend they are now tough on immigration, it's simply a survival strategy.
It doesn't fool the country any longer, hence the recent election outcomes.
actually, even in the news this week was reeves removing tariffs on food imports that the country doesn't produce itself.
the fact that she could do that is a function of brexit.
it's taken over 5 years though, and multiple governments
and VAT on domestic energy remains.
the fact that she could do that is a function of brexit.
it's taken over 5 years though, and multiple governments
and VAT on domestic energy remains.
The tories that ramped up immigration are now in refuk
Ha ha ha
Ha ha ha
Two party politics has just reached a natural cyclical low. Voting just to keep the other lot out has stopped being worth it because the alternative isnt any better
They were topping the polls massively at 40% on who do you not what to form the next government. Time for a French Presidential system of voting methinks.
I think you have to have a result you don't like, first.
I will give you some credibility if you can quote any of yourself moaning about liberal democrats getting 72 MPs with 12% at the last election.
I will give you some credibility if you can quote any of yourself moaning about liberal democrats getting 72 MPs with 12% at the last election.
Trading with Europe fine. Paying for the EU Commission. Not fine. Massive overhead for all EU residents which we no longer pay but I agree that for some strange reason our main parties would rejoin. Removing tariffs benefits them not us as we import far more than we export.
tariffs are taxes, removing them benefits uk consumers who get goods for lower prices.
complaining that the eu are protectionist but wanting our own government to maintain tariffs which are generally about protecting domestic producers seem like somewhat incongruous beliefs, imo.
complaining that the eu are protectionist but wanting our own government to maintain tariffs which are generally about protecting domestic producers seem like somewhat incongruous beliefs, imo.
130,000 extra civil service jobs ....
Brexit-driven expansion (2016–2020): Departments directly affected by leaving the EU—such as the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), and the Home Office—saw major recruitment drives to manage new border controls, an independent trade policy, and an altered immigration system.
You've seen the effect Compliance has had on the bookmaking industry. ... it's costly and carp for consumers.
Trade Creation: Eliminating tariffs and quotas makes cross-border transactions cheaper, substantially boosting the volume of trade within the region.
Economies of Scale: Access to a much larger, barrier-free consumer market allows businesses to mass-produce goods, reducing the average cost per unit
Enhanced Specialization: Member states can focus on industries where they hold a comparative advantage, driving up overall production efficiency
Foreign Direct Investment (FDI): Global entities are highly drawn to invest in bloc nations to gain seamless access to the entire unified market without facing heavy import restrictions.
Lower Prices: The removal of import taxes directly translates to cheaper products and services for everyday buyers
Greater Product Variety: Consumers enjoy a broader selection of goods because foreign competition within the bloc reduces domestic monopoly power.
Labor Mobility: Deeper economic integration often permits the free movement of citizens, giving workers access to wider employment opportunities and businesses access to a broader talent pool
Stronger Bargaining Power (why the USA wanted BREXIT, good for them, bad for us): A unified trade bloc possesses significantly more leverage when negotiating multilateral trade
agreements with massive global economies
Political Stability: Deep economic interdependence aligns national interests, fostering regional cooperation and drastically minimizing the potential for geopolitical conflict
Resource and Tech Sharing: Proximity and unified regulations accelerate knowledge spillovers, joint technological modernization, and collaborative supply chain infrastructure
Brexit-driven expansion (2016–2020): Departments directly affected by leaving the EU—such as the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), and the Home Office—saw major recruitment drives to manage new border controls, an independent trade policy, and an altered immigration system.
You've seen the effect Compliance has had on the bookmaking industry. ... it's costly and carp for consumers.
Trade Creation: Eliminating tariffs and quotas makes cross-border transactions cheaper, substantially boosting the volume of trade within the region.
Economies of Scale: Access to a much larger, barrier-free consumer market allows businesses to mass-produce goods, reducing the average cost per unit
Enhanced Specialization: Member states can focus on industries where they hold a comparative advantage, driving up overall production efficiency
Foreign Direct Investment (FDI): Global entities are highly drawn to invest in bloc nations to gain seamless access to the entire unified market without facing heavy import restrictions.
Lower Prices: The removal of import taxes directly translates to cheaper products and services for everyday buyers
Greater Product Variety: Consumers enjoy a broader selection of goods because foreign competition within the bloc reduces domestic monopoly power.
Labor Mobility: Deeper economic integration often permits the free movement of citizens, giving workers access to wider employment opportunities and businesses access to a broader talent pool
Stronger Bargaining Power (why the USA wanted BREXIT, good for them, bad for us): A unified trade bloc possesses significantly more leverage when negotiating multilateral trade
agreements with massive global economies
Political Stability: Deep economic interdependence aligns national interests, fostering regional cooperation and drastically minimizing the potential for geopolitical conflict
Resource and Tech Sharing: Proximity and unified regulations accelerate knowledge spillovers, joint technological modernization, and collaborative supply chain infrastructure
If you go back to Betfair pre 2008, we had access to many more punters from many more countries. It was a kind of BREXIT when many foreign countries pulled the plug on Betfair. Protectionism is good for Kim Jong Un though. Keeps him in power. So there is an upside for some people. Farage perhaps in the UK
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