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Why Are the mainstream media and loony lefties so scared of Farage and Reform
Why Are the mainstream media and loony lefties so scared of Farage and Reform
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Replies: 75
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He is into small modular reactors?
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Rough guess - 17% and 4 seats. But I've gotten a bit bored of trying to study it and moved back to footy so don't go betting your mortgage on that please.
Purely from a betting perspective, it doesn't make sense. As you probably know I thought that ruk had a shot of winning the h2h vs Tories. Now I think they will. I get why the market is moving because of the coordinated attack over the last week or so, and obviously the climb in the opinion polls stabilising. However, I believe the wider market misunderstands the impact. Utterly disenchanted tories vs motivated reformers. We shall see. |
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You are camping on the edge of reality if you go by what people say instead of what they do.
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This election's all about the protest vote. Some tories have gone one way, some have gone another. And some more will stay loyal. Question is all just about degrees.
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I've dined on it for 20 years Ronald!
Opinion polls are what they are, and they are obviously informative. But aren't the whole picture. If the Brexit reffy had happened now, they would still call it 'wrong'. For me it's not whether polls are right or wrong, it's whether the conditions are conducive to them being able to produce snapshots that will accurately reflect the actual outcome. The opinion polls remain very inconsistent anyway. In 2019 a lot of people thought they were underplaying Labour. Perhaps aligned with what they wanted to happen, which PP has alluded to before, is a risk. I put myself in the place of a Tory voter. That is a very very difficult place to be right now. Literally holding your nose type stuff. Are you going to be motivated to do that when you live in a dead seat anyway. Certainly not by the leader. Never mind that the party on the wider scale doesn't deserve it. Among all the threats, the stay at home one is huge for them. Especially in seats that are effectively gone already. Reformers' motivation is completely different, they just want their vote counted, knowing in many cases it's not about the seat but is about having their voice heard (in a small way). |
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It’s obviously not just the left that worries about Reform.
It’s the centre, centre left and centre right. And they should be, given Farage’s repeated support for the twins of evil - Putin and Trump. |
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Because they fear the Tory protest bandwaggon will choose that as the most effective form of their disapproval , followed by not voting as second choice .
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I think i remember farage saying he admired Putin as a leader I cant remember him saying he supported Putin
Can you remind me of the evidence cry? |
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It's the BBC that scares me the most - will they ever learn? Latest propaganda this morning from outside a food bank asking voters their priorities. Usual stuff - NHS, economy, free dentists, childcare, mental health, bus timetables. Reeled off at least 10 priorities with no mention of the word "immigration" - yet check online and it's constantly in the top three in every independent survey. Reminds me of pre-brexit, when they would pit one poor brexiteering soul on Question Time against a snarling gang of 5 remainers. Look what happened there. People talk about the silent majority - more accurate to call it the silenced majority. My bets are already placed but 4/1 over 20% for the Reform share seems massive value to me.
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That's actually untrue
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country?crossBreak=labour Check this as an example. If you set it to Labour voters (and Labour are going to have many more voters than any of the other parties), then only 16% say immigration is the priority. Higher than that are: Health; the economy; education; housing; the environment; and Britain leaving the EU. If you think immigration is the real priority for the vast majority of people, then I trust you're laying Labour to win. Don't be gaslit into thinking everyone has the same priorities as your social media feed, or that regular media is lying to you. Always check first. There are whole load of people - regular people who don't really care about politics, who aren't glued to facebook and youtube, and who only bother voting every five years - who are simply fed up of hearing the usual faces wang on about small boats and immigration and borders and all this other future tense stuff that they are always promising and promising and promising to fix. Those people are actually much more concerned about the state of the NHS, the schools with holes in the ceilings and not enough teachers, the explosion of foodbanks, the fact that everything is more expensive now and the desperate hope for an interest rate drop to help them get by each month. Those are the people voting on Thursday. They've had enough. |
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So what you are saying is that the mainstream media is only interviewing labour voters? If you remove the filter for Labour voters to allow all voters, the priority figures for immigration is in the top 3 (40%)
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country It's dangerous to believe that the country has suddenly leaned to the left and become aligned to labour values. In my opinion, the switch of votes to labour is due almost entirely to the failure of the conservatives. |
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Both main parties fear Reform. They know Reform represents the views of an awful lot of people.
Despite this, the two party system is so entrenched in the UK that the odds are stacked against any new party emerging as a real force. But the only way to restore democracy is to vote Reform. And real democracy is what the establishment fear. Labour or Tories, what's the difference these days? |
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No, I'm saying there's an extremely good chance the interviewees were labour voters, and therefore thought the economy, the NHS, schools et al are more important than immigration. Therefore it's no conspiracy from the beeb so no need to play the victim. And those figures don't lie - the vast majority of people voting for Labour in a couple of days see immigration as a minor issue compared to the tory and reform minority.
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doc - how would you restore democracy? Obviously, Labour are probably going to win big and get a huge majority. Reform will get their voters and have a handful of MP's. What is the anti-democratic crime going on and how would you fix it?
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Dr Crippen02 Jul 24 10:51Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,975 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog
Both main parties fear Reform. They know Reform represents the views of awful people. |
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They know Reform represents the views of an awful lot of people.
yes maybe 15-20% of the population have the issue of immigration living in their heads rent-free. high-school dropouts with low self-esteem - vulnerable to believing conspiracy theories. there are a lot of them |
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If you dont believe immigration is an issue then either you have your head in the sand or have fallen for the media propaganda. 685k last year - higher than the population of Bristol. Is it not logical to think of how many hospital beds, GP appointments, police, school places, foodbanks etc are required to accommodate such a number? The conservatives recognised this back in 2019 - their manifesto pledging 40 new hospitals to keep up with expected demand. It was never an achievable target and they failed miserably. Labour will struggle just as badly. People see it whilst queing for an NHS appointment, housing, full classrooms, police that dont have the resources to attend minor crimes etc etc..
Many see the problem as a simply a lack of funding - but it's pointless throwing money at all these problems whilst refusing to deal with the underlying causes |
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Britain has an ageing population and a birth rate of 1.56 per woman, so we need immigrant labour. How much immigrant labour is the question and yes it can't be uncontrolled.
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Spain has a birth rate of 1.19 per woman
They better address this quickly and incentivise their senoritas or they are in a heap of trouble down the line. |
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I agree Cardinal - we do need immigration. The discussions we need to have is about is what level is sustainable, and how we can fund public services to accommodate those levels
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The biggest enemy to democracy is the concept of the wasted vote. Or even worse, the tories vote for x is a vote for y. Pushing either of these ideas helps to maintain the two party duopoly. When enough people see through this, then we get closer to democracy.
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maybe the immigrants are doing the jobs people in clacton don't want to do?
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the vast majority of people voting for Labour in a couple of days see immigration as a minor issue compared to the tory and reform minority.
Absolutely, that kind of delusional inability to join the dots, to reach the glaringly obvious conclusion that the issues they prioritise might actually be downstream from immigration is much of the problem... “Consider just one of many mind-boggling statistics. Over the last five years, about two million people from outside Europe arrived in Britain through net migration. But how many do you think came for work? Just 15 per cent. That’s right. 15 per cent. The rest entered Britain as the relatives of workers, international students, the relatives of these students, or as asylum-seekers and refugees. But surely those workers have gone into the most highly-skilled, highly-paid jobs where they are earning more than their British counterparts, right? Nope. Based on what limited data there is, we now know this is not the case at all. Many of the rapidly rising number of immigrants who are coming to Britain from outside of Europe actually earn less than established British workers —including those who have been here for the best part of a decade.” https://thecritic.co.uk/the-big-tory-lie/ www.neilobrien.co.uk/p/new-data-on-low-wage-migration As alluded to in both articles, a methodological minefield subject to FOI requests (can’t think why)… A couple of in depth articles that look at the economic impact of a similar population influx across Europe and the US… www.economist.com/europe/2021/12/18/why-have-danes-turned-against-immigration www.emilkirkegaard.com/p/fiscal-impact-of-immigrants-by-country |
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Reform represents the views of a lot of awful people.
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Data shows that the majority of immigrants vote labour. Hardly surprising that they don't see immigration as their top priority
 Polls on this stuff are always skewed, people who don't pay much tax and feed off the teat of the state don't mind taxes going up for some reason (for other people). It shows how dim so many liberalists are. They welcomed untrammelled immigration but are the first to moan that their kids can't get on the housing ladder. Dot to dots are not their forte. |
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Cider do you still dislike human beings, I remember you declaring this on here years ago.
I Don't Like People |
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^He doesn't like you.
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I don't think I like you either, Snott.
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Oh so original, I am bowled over by your Wildean wit
Keep Enjoying Those Brexit Benefits! |
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Oh so original, I am bowled over by your Wildean wit
Please yourself. |
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That's an original 'go to' Cardinal Scott, attack the player and not the ball. How refreshing.
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Dr Crippen02 Jul 24 14:12Joined: 16 Apr 02 | Topic/replies: 55,980 | Blogger: Dr Crippen's blog
I don't think |
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maybe 15-20% of the population have the issue of immigration living in their heads rent-free. high-school dropouts with low self-esteem
I'm all right Jack leftie sneering at the demographic Labour were formed to defend and no longer do. |
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To address the OP, I don't see any, or certainly not many, lefties being scared of Farage and Reform. It's the soon to be routed Tories who are for obvious reasons.
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