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German Sausage Crisis
German Sausage Crisis
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Why are a certain kind of people all simultanously terribly concerned with the introduction of insects as a food option? Are you seriously scared you'll be force fed them?
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Lets hope we don't eat our way thru the New insects discovered in Vietnam
Football time  |
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Ok, you can come back to explain the Vietnam thing beyond "££££" after the soccerball.
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Meat is currently heavily subsidised. My point, and look where it is leading us all. They are doing the same with energy and I have forbodings over that. |
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Europeans have been socialised over decades that they demand cheap and readily available meat, and as you say only the prime parts, wasting the rest. If politics started a process where the customer actually, and suddenly, has to pay the real price for their meat, there'd be scenes mimicking the apocalypse.
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Not is they were left to spend their own money as they wish instead of it being confiscated to pay the subsidies to agriculture.
I guess you were all well-fed in the socialist paradise by the planned economy they were so proud of. |
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I wasn't getting at CAP. I was getting at overall society carrying e.g. the environmental cost of livestock without it being considered in the price in any way at all.
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And that's not something I see the most concerned pure capitalist free trade radicals being eager to have a go at.
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Poor and convinced vegans have to subsidise the meat gluttony of others. If I was an esoteric vegan hippie I'd find that unbearable.
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How do you calculate that edy? Who will decide the criteria? What about the environmental cost of humans? I wonder if Lenin, Stalin and Chairman Mao were taking that into consideration during their purges and great leaps forward?
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You calculate that by forming a commission that decides the environmental costs. It's not going to be definitive and precise to the cent calculations, but like in lots of other set costs it doesn't need to be.
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And it's certainly better than completely ignoring it and overall society having to subsidise it completely.
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Commissions never decide anything worthwhile because of muh politics and the lowest common denominator.
The Dutch cow is green, let it be. You become a soy boy, I will eat a nice plate of fried liver. |
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So the lowest common denominator like let's say the meat consumers paying say 25% of the actual environmental cost is still better than them being completely subsidised.
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You just made that number up
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Yes, I single-handedly decided that I already do not deem a worthless exercise if meat consumers pay as little as 25% of the environmental costs. Sometimes you gotta be able to accept that something is worthwhile even if it's just an improvement of the current situation instead of a homerun.
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Of the environmental cost of the meat they consume of course. Not all all environmental costs ever in all flights of life.
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I don't mind prices reflecting the real cost, it's just how the environmental aspect can be calculated in the context of everything else that happens on the earth and who decides the difficult aspects such as might it be better to have fewer humans by perhaps culling the oldies (or has that recently been tried)? How do you balance meat-eaters against veggies on your committee? Are bird sanctuaries more important than fish for humans?
When the environmental cost has been determined and included in the price, what happens to the extra money? Does it line committee members' pockets and buy more tanks or does it somehow "purify" the environment (or all three)? Gosh, so many questions. |
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Indeed very many questions. That's why you form a committee of all the best environmental economists. Don't be such a naysayer. Didn't see you be such a dithering merchant of doubt regarding e.g. Brexit.
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Sorry edy, I was called to prayer at the dining table. Meat and fish were available but no tofu or quinoa.
Yes, my life is a conundrum. I'm a capitalist brexiteer in a remoaner led Eurocommunist country, a caucasian in a now south Asian district and an atheist in a black Christian household. (I did actually choose the latter). There are still unanswered questions, particularly about the planned socialist paradise on earth. You say you have lived in it so the answers should be on the tip of your tongue. I have only visited a part of it and I must say I wasn't impressed even though our hosts made a really special effort to procure a few slices of Polish Wurst for us. |
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What some anglophone commentators tend to defame as "planned socialist paradise" and get hysterical about is nothing more than a social market economy like you have in the nordic countries.
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Signed,
someone who, unlike much of the UK and especially US, doesn't just use socialism and marxism as buzzwords for basically everything that isn't unfettered, unregulated markets and anything resembling a welfare system or things like publically financed infrastructure. |
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I would imagine after screwing sri Lanka & co. We needed a good story so
We decided the cheap labour (slavery) would benefit our agenda strengthening cooperation with Vietnam in developing the green buzz preparing the Low-carbon Agriculture Value Chain Development Project following VNSAT. Funny the fox is guarding the hen house again youtube.com/watch?v=_NlrsmEvv1Q 1-2  good game |
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Wait? Did "we" need a good story or did "we" need a story about slave labour and exploitation?
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I'll admit that the beetroot and potato salad we were served every day was healthy and delicious. Those lovely people did try their best and I have fond memories. We even had a ride in an ancient Lada which was quite an experience on wet cobbles and tram tracks with the yellow fuel light on. Even after a fuel stop with the aid of a few Western currency notes the fuel light was still on.
The centre of Warsaw was impressive as it had been lovingly restored brick by brick using old photographs from the pile of rubble left by the Nazis. There was also a Chopin concert in the park on Sunday. Less interesting was a huge concrete office block in the centre of the city in classical Soviet style and the extensive concrete blocks of flats in which the proletariat lived. Does any of that sound familiar edy? |
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https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2022-11/olaf-scholz-vietnam-asien-reise-china
This piece I read some time ago suggests Vietnam is increasingly chosen as a partner to reduce the reliance on China at least a little bit. Maybe have a read too, shiny. |
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edy • February 26, 2023 5:00 PM GMT
The growth model we do like models (covid) failed for decades to take account of income returns to farmersWhich is slavery |
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I know lots of things and nothing edy, it's been interesting and given my future horizon I'm almost past caring. You are an intelligent person and can distinguish truth from propaganda, are you really asking me to explain?
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I feel like you were trying to give a distorted version of the EU, but feel free to expand, sure.
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Mrs.shiny wants some bloody steak
 Vietnam’s farmers incomes has decreased over decades ,unbelievable jeff.  |
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Possibly funny story on concrete blocks btw.: Der Schwarze Kanal, chief propagandist pogramme on GDR television, liked to visit concrete blocks in western Germany and give the message of how miserably these people lived. Swathes of people in the GDR, especially away from the big cities, must have been like: "Hey, we'd like to live that luxuriously". Certainly my parents were when they viewed that programme.
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cut from
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Did I mention the EU apart from the Nederlandse Kue which was your starter.
I referred to free markets and soviet style planned economies and the crazy idea that we should replace meat with insects. I don't knowingly distort the EU but give my impressions of it. I have lived in more than one EU country and have visited a number of them on business, working with colleagues continuously in those countries. Maybe I walked around with my eyes shut and know no more about continental Europe than the average Brexit voter. It's for you to decide, you only have my posts and a little extra info I shared privately with you. |
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edy • February 26, 2023 5:04 PM GMT
This piece I read some time ago suggests Vietnam is increasingly chosen as a partner Yes edy. You are encouraging slavery  |
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So what, shiny? Not all of us do gooder virtue-signalling hippies.
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Rice farming is the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in Vietnam’s
Let's restrict rice..lol  |
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I'm not aware of anyone of note and anywhere near power wanting Soviet style planned economies.
What is actually so "crazy" about including insects as an additional source. Here, too, I'm not aware of people of note and near power thoroughly and completely wanting to replace red/white/whatever colour meat with insects btw. And it's absolutely not going to happen. What I see happen is meat from actual animals eventually reaching their true price, meat from bioreactors becoming the primary meat and insects being an additional thing. |
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Times up med -rare
Rice is killing the planet |