The NHS; the subject neither Lizzy nor Rishi dare broach

I'm sure you have one, do tell.

Training more medical staff and no tuition fees for them. Must work for the NHS for 7 years or pay back cost of training.

We have an Office of Budget Responsibility, why not an Office of NHS Responsibility?

What specific responsibilities would this new 'Office' be charged with?

Some of the problem is down to not having care home staff as said in the OP,surely that needs urgent addressing?

I would suggest they stop the French et al owning our NHS hospitals, quite ridiculous.

Every country is in the same boat to different degrees,a backlog after covid In hindsight should have been training or schemes or a plan but not sure which countries actually implemented one if any.

You can start by getting rid of health tourists, reducing middle management numbers who are paid a daily fortune and fine people for missing appointments that costs the NHS.

When you look at comparable countries we spend about the same percentage of GDP on health.

Labour would spend more, but they'd also wedge open the door for more arrivals which would defeat the object as we found out under Blair, the influx put strain on schools, housing, jobs, NHS which is in part why they've been out of power far more than they've been in power since their creation.

nearly half the budget is spent on the wages of the million+ employees to treat an ageing population (that cost twice as more as a patient half the age) which can't be helped.

Only one way to pump more money in reality, tax rises.

What can be helped is population control, make contraception free, reduce numbers from countries that breed like rabbits, round up all of Boris's kids and send them to a remote island, there's a few hundred gone already. Kind Regards.

Remove all the stupid woke jobs like diversity manager etc. A complete waste of time and resources. Sack all the management people and replace them with competent people. Have doctors and nurses that actually work and don't grift on Twitter like Julia Grace Patterson and finally ban the TikTok app so these doctors and nurses aren't spending all their time on that. Problem solved.

We all know the problems the NHS faces and the biggest is neither Lizzy nor Rishi have a plan to fix the NHS. The pair of them are pathetic.

If you gave the NHS £20 billion this year they would come back next year and ask for more. Useless at managing the money they get and piss it away left right and centre. The whole service is a shambles run by some of the most dimmest people you could wish to meet. Blair was right to bring in an element of privatisation but he didn't go far enough. Free at the point of use B!llocks and they need proper professionals and business people to run this behemoth of an organisation so we all get value for money and a better service.

Anyone who believes the NHS would be "saved" and that all their problems would go away if the Tories were removed from power are extremely deluded.

The NHS cannot go on as it is trying to cater for almost every illness esp cosmetic ones with its ever increasing users. The NHS is a financial pit the country cannot afford. I think a radical approach is inevitable in the near future eg a targeted approach where only major natural/hereditary illnesses eg heart/kidney/cancer/knee replacement, etc, are treated and fast-tracked.

I believe repeated users of NHS from self-induced and over-indulgence illnesses eg obesity ought to be charged a fee for each usage unless inheriting a defected gene. I believe the NHS is being abused because it's free.

Or you could be imaginative and actually try to fix the problem.

It's a very fair reflection of UK society also.

It certainly can be fixed without privatisation.

Annual allowance tax charges on higher grade NHS professionals pensions needs sorting out asap as Truss has just indicated and not just for NHS staff. The annual allowance pension tax is ridiculous for people who want to save for their retirements and the lifetime allowance needs scrapping.

The NHS is beyond repair because of the people in places of power who run it (overpaid socialists.)
What will happen long term is that private healthcare will grow until only the poorest will use the NHS.

It's not a bad idea is it Dr C. Just give people choice and those who want to make their own arrangements allow tax relief on private health care contributions as an inducement for those that can afford it.

The animal equivalent is pretty good. I'd used them in the past thro' choice. I'd contribute £20 each time I visited.

Private Healthcare doesn't do anything complex. Knees and hips and even then there must be free space at the local NHS ICU just in case anything goes wrong.

The NHS was so busy last December they told all GPs they could cancel all check ups and planned surgery for the old and vulnerable to give more covid jabs to healthy people. Nothing to do with getting £25 a pop, and still being paid for the cancelled work

I see Rishi crushed Liz in the TV debate tonight according to the studio audience of undecided tory voters. Likely won't make any difference though as the leader is chosen by the racist, white, elderly small membership that has been infiltrated over the last few years by the extreme right wing.

Yes, GPs are on a good screw because there is such a shortage.

I'll give it to you straight, SNC. What I cited is an example, but there are many.

The NHS isn't a customer led service. It services itself. It is autonomous. It does what it wants, what its sees is best for the organisation, not the 'customers' (ie patients), or its front line staff.

At the strategy end it doesn't give a sh1t about individual people. Most of the front line and medical staff do. But its ultimate aim is to protect itself and its reputation. The whole lockdown / save the NHS thing, and abandoning all other healthcare was essentially about demonstrating to the world that it could cope with covid patients. It didn't care about the patients, just its public image.

Until it becomes customer/user driven, it will always be fundamentally flawed.

Policies that matter aren't relevant in the Tory leadership contest.

I am all for the customer. The staff get paid for the inconvenience of working!

Forget about privatisation as that isn't the specific debate here, but I'm using it as an example.

Do you think any kind of service would get away with everybody needing to telephone the same number to join the same queue, fastest finger first style, at the same time, and if you are lucky enough to get through, you have to justify to the person at the end of the line why you need to use their services. It's absurd. And now they'll tell you you might get a call back in a four hour window, or have to do a video call.

The next time politicians are quizzed on the NHS being 'starved of resources', the politicians should immediately show some fight and point out the NHS (and public purse as a whole) is riven with fraud, as the BBC series 'Fraud Squad' and 'Fraud Squad NHS' routinely and humiliatingly exposed, to the sum of BILLIONS of pounds. The NHS is o eof then biggest architects of its own failings.

Most of the frauds exposed on those TV shows were so easily preventable (and detectable) one wondered why they had taken so long to uncover. One possible explanation was because the frauds had been perpetrated by persons who were NOT white, those in positions of management and accountability were probably afraid of being called 'racist' by Progressive idiots.

The carehomes lost 8% of their staff due to the insane vaccine mandates forced on them for Covid.

Society has yet to have proper debate on what to do about social care and NHS care.

As the pharma-mediical-industrial complex gets bigger and bigger we do need a plan.

No politican in for five years dares to make the changes needed.

Any plan to fix the NHS has to start with concrete measures to attract, train and maintain more clinical staff and end bed blocking.

Ending bed blocking is going to be costly and difficult because we simply do not have manpower to care for people in their own homes.

Aug 5, 2022 -- 9:24AM, frog1000 wrote:

The carehomes lost 8% of their staff due to the insane vaccine mandates forced on them for Covid.Society has yet to have proper debate on what to do about social care and NHS care.As the pharma-mediical-industrial complex gets bigger and bigger we do need a plan.No politican in for five years dares to make the changes needed.

Care homes didn't lose any staff. They just swapped the anti vaxxers for sensible folk that wished to work.

A pandemic of the quadruple vaccinated simpleton

I wouldn't want a relative anywhere near somebody who had had 4 shots of that filth

*simpletons

politicspunter04 Aug 22 22:08Joined: 20 Mar 18 | Topic/replies: 41,367 | Blogger: politicspunter's blog
I see Rishi crushed Liz in the TV debate tonight according to the studio audience of undecided tory voters. Likely won't make any difference though as the leader is chosen by the racist, white, elderly small membership that has been infiltrated over the last few years by the extreme right wing.

Thank goodness for that, the last thing we need is woke lefties choosing the next pm.

I don't think there are many lefties among the racist tory membership.

Thanks for those comforting words, I hope you are right.

Aren't the tories super far left socialist these days?

Aug 5, 2022 -- 11:37AM, Foinavon wrote:

Thanks for those comforting words, I hope you are right.

Fairly confident

Yep, Johnson and now Liz spend money like Gordon Brown on acid.

Buy buy buy votes!!!

Funnily enough, if it was all lefties in the Conservative membership, they would pick the same candidate as the racists.

They do seem to follow socialist policies edy and would have been considered far left 50 years ago. The goalposts have changed since then and centrists like me are now considered to be far right.

Which is something perfectly common tbf. Back when I was young many moons ago, all the people that wanted to get rid of feeding slaves to the lions were considered woke do gooder cultural marxist and defamed as people that wanted to bring Roman civilisation down. A few years have passed and now even the far right doesn't have it on the top of its agenda to feed people to lions in colosseums.

Don't read that. Lemme try again:

Which is something perfectly common tbf. Back when I was young many moons ago, all the people that wanted to get rid of feeding slaves to the lions were considered woke do gooder cultural marxist and defamed as people that wanted to bring Roman civilisation down. Everybody else from the normal left to the far extreme super right deemed it a matter of utmost cultural importance and perfectly appropriate, essential even. A few years have passed and now even the far right doesn't have it on the top of its agenda to feed people to lions in colosseums.

Don't you think some people deserve to be fed to lions? Child rapists for example? Slavery is abhorrent and I strongly disapprove of it but it does exist in the world even today and where it does exist, those slaves should be adequately fed with a balanced non-vegetarian diet.

Is he really trying to correlate medieval times to now?

What counts for us is what is happening now.

The far left have positions of power and influence now. Including the nationalists in Scotland.

There is nobody even remotely considered far right that has any power or influence in the UK.

The far left are in charge of many institutions, which is why everything appears to be going down the sh1tter. Covid was of course their nirvana.

You are right, they were in seventh heaven wielding all that power over us plebs. Now we must pay for it.

Ah Cider! The Tory party have made a balls of it,it is that simple.

Sunak boasting about taking cash off deprived areas,Truss wanting to decrease civil service workers wages in same areas, Boris and his leveling up, liars and frauds the lot of them.

I honestly don't think the political party makes an awful lot of difference. It's a choice between st1t or really sh1t. The US are even worse than us. A good few years ago, people worked out that the real power lies with the institutions, not the politicians that come and go. If you're in charge of mainstream media and social media, you control the narrative. Therefore sleepy joe gets a free ride.

Take the most destructive policies of recent years, lockdown, sanctions, net zero. Both of the parties that could have political power in the UK are/were more or less aligned. Starmer just wants it to be even worse.

How short ago was Boris telling us how great the economy was doing,a few months? Well after fuel/gas prices went up anyway.
You only want a bit of honesty,nothing with the spivs who just covered it up.

They all agree lapsy, and what I'm trying to tell you is that all of the immovable institutions agree too.

The only difference would be that the narrative would be supportive of Starmer, so it would provide him with the veneer of being successful.

I can give you a recent example, if the speaker was republican and went to Taiwan, the mainstream would have gone nuts, how dangerous it was encouraging ww3 etc. Pelosi could kick a cat and they would report it as a great event.

cider, name the far leftists in power and tell me what jobs they have, tia.

You can be of a liberalist slant, and still concede that's the way it is. Why pretend otherwise.

Neil Ferguson, don't know what his jobs are now but I believe he still gets regular slots on the BBC. His made up modelling was the trigger for lockdowns as I understand it.

Susan Michie was the orchestrator of the most heinous behavioural manipulation during the lockdowns.

Whoever in the NHS is trying to delete female language from all their literature.

Sturgeon obviously, who wants to ban free speech, families grassing on each other, and every child to be assigned to someone who works for the state.

Tom Grinyer bma chief

wow, that really sound like a vast left wing conspiracy.

hearing you speak about fwee speech is, ahem, somewhat surprising as you started a thread telling anyone who favoured lockdowns to stfu and you repeated the exact same sentiment a day or two ago. it is entirely predictable that what chaps like you really mean by fwee speech is fwee speech for people who have views you agree with.

surely spiked, guido, the telegraph, the spectator and the rest can come up with some more names than that?

All of the people in charge of social media.

It's not a conspiracy in the sense that they all sit around a table and plot. For example though, much of the civil service is led by liberalists, so of course they employ and promote people with the same ideology.

You can see this in the various police forces. To get promoted, you have to be overtly supportive of identity politics. Dick had a chain of failures behind her, but still reached the top job in policing (and kept it too long) purely down to that ideology.

on the other hand we actually have a government that has recruited many, many special advisers from the tutfton street gang of supposedly independent think tanks that are nothing but opaquely funded libertarian tory support groups. truss's gaffe re regional pay was directly picked from one of this lot, no surprise as her special adviser is from the tufton street gang.

absolute piffle to complain about the far left, the problem is that the real world doesnt work in the way you or the current government think it does so enemies are invented to distract attention from their incompetence.

surely you agree with free speech, jolly? I mean, not shutting people down because they have different views to you (legal views).

it shouldn't matter what your political ideology or default is.

you are the one who deosnt agree with free speech - you said anyone who supported lockdown should stfu

nope. I said anyone who supported lockdown and is now moaning about paying the price should go back in their box.

but they wont you said. no free speech for these people you want them to stfu

they won't yes, because it's most likely they lack cognitive ability if they were demanding lockdown in the first place. and genuinely thought there would be no cost to them for shutting the economy down for 2 years

it's not a free speech issue, but it is rather galling seeing the same type of people crying about the cost of lockdown, as were demanding lockdown.

telling certain people they should stay in their box isnt a free speech issue - we have reached the inevitable stage where i laugh as you tie yourself up in knots.

did they say there would be no cost and did anyone actually say the economy should be shut down for two year? rhetorical questions, obviously.

Aug 4, 2022 -- 10:08PM, politicspunter wrote:

I see Rishi crushed Liz in the TV debate tonight according to the studio audience of undecided tory voters. Likely won't make any difference though as the leader is chosen by the racist, white, elderly small membership that has been infiltrated over the last few years by the extreme right wing.

Is this line still being peddled. Kemi Badenoch would have trounced Truss in member's vote. But Woke Tory MPs were scared of her.

it's not literal, jolly. obviously. a turn of phrase 'back in your box', something which I'd even credit you with grasping all on your own.

just for the hard of hearing

back in (one's) box
Returned to a position in which one attracts less notice or attention.

you were clearly telling people who had views you dont like to be quiet, you didnt want them to express their views.

yes it's part of back and forth debate. i don't want them to be kicked off the forum (the preferred method of how those with liberalist tendencies would like to treat their opponents)

Is this line still being peddled. Kemi Badenoch would have trounced Truss in member's vote. But Woke Tory MPs were scared of her.


he has to try and justify to himself why he's taken a beating in this market

they are everywhere, make sure you check under your bed before you go to sleep.

Aug 5, 2022 -- 5:46PM, Cider wrote:

yes it's part of back and forth debate. i don't want them to be kicked off the forum (the preferred method of how those with liberalist tendencies would like to treat their opponents)

citation please

Alternatively, as a first step, can you make two lists? One in which you list those forumites that you deem to have liberalist tendencies and another in which you list the names that you deem satisfy your alleged preferred method of having opponents kicked off the forum.

We are all friends here.

Cider you keep trying to pin this on covid,everywhere had covid.

Who said fook industry? You know who well,boris and the torys.
Proof of that is not imposing controls on EU goods and putting British business at a huge disadvantage.

You are getting that now,the minus gdp,the minus exports to the EU,it was just hidden,the cat is out of the bag.

Both want to privatise the NHS.

They are Tories who hate the NHS and Tories do not like poor sick or disabled people, except for the demented Tory members who vote for this continued wickedness and sleaze and corruption.

It was Rishi and the covid Quad impossed on Cabinet that further trashed the already struggling care sector and those made bed blocking worse....

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/social-care/warning-many-care-workers-will-not-return-to-jobs-despite-vaccine-rule-change-02-03-2022/

Warning ‘many’ care workers will not return to jobs despite vaccine rule change

Revoking the Covid-19 vaccination mandate for health and care staff has come “too late” for the thousands of care home workers who already left the sector because of the policy, according to key charities and unions who warned many will not return to their previous jobs despite the rule change.

It was announced on Tuesday that nurses in England would no longer be required by law to be vaccinated against Covid-19, after a consultation saw widespread support for dropping the mandate.

Vaccination as a condition of deployment was introduced for care home staff late last year and was due to be extended to all patient-facing NHS and social care workers next month.

But now the government has confirmed the mandate will be scrapped from 15 March 2022.

It is estimated that tens of thousands of care home staff left their jobs because of the policy, leading to “immense workforce pressures” and contributing to the “most serious staffing crisis for decades”, according to Vic Rayner, chief executive of the National Care Forum (NCF), which brings together 160 of the UK’s social care organisation.

Findings from a recent survey of NCF members on the impact of the mandate in care homes found the policy had come at a great financial cost and was “quite simply, the wrong policy at the wrong time”.

Those informing the survey said on top of the thousands of pounds spent trying to implement it, it had also brought an “enormous extra workload” for organisations and had been “very damaging” to staff morale.

Other results showed the negative impact around recruitment, with 94% of respondents stating they thought the policy had made this more difficult.

One survey respondent spoke about the impact of staff losses on services and the people they care for and said: “The people we support have been unduly affected by this because they have seen their support workers of many years leave in a short period of time.

“It is my belief that these support workers are lost to the industry forever, because they now won't trust that this could not happen again.”

Ms Rayner demanded an apology and acknowledgement from the government on the “damage this policy has done” and the “very real impacts it has had on people working in the sector and those drawing on care and support”.

Unison’s head of care, Gavin Edwards, also stressed his concerns that despite the rule change, care home workers will refuse to return to work in the sector.

“There were always better ways of upping the jab rate in care,” he said.

“Making the vaccine mandatory meant thousands of experienced staff quit or were forced out of care homes. These were workers the struggling sector could ill afford to lose.”

Mr Edwards added: “Many won't go back either. They've found work elsewhere, some of it better paid and less stressful.”

Meanwhile, Professor Martin Green, chief executive of Care England, also stressed the decision to remove the mandate was “too late” for the thousands of care staff who had already left services because they did not want to be vaccinated.

Chief executive and general secretary from the Royal College of Nursing, Pat Cullen, also echoed this statement on Tuesday when she said: “Holding the threat of losing their jobs over the heads of the small minority of staff who had not been vaccinated was the wrong approach and this decision will be welcomed by those whose jobs were at risk.

“It does, however, come too late for those who have already lost their jobs.”

It is understood that the matter of re-hiring staff who have been dismissed or resigned as a result of the policy is for each individual employer to address.

They tried to force NHS staff to be jabbed as well only backing down at the last minute.

Politicans got stuck in a feedback loop reinforced by the media scare tactics telling people vaccines protected you and your loved ones from catching Covid.

Disgraceful false information on vaccines claiming to stop spread of Covid was not corrected earlier by the establishment.

The price will be paid for by the NHS for years to come as thousands have left the care sector and NHS due to the pro-vax zealots.

Good stuff frog.

Why isn't stuff like this discussed in the main media?
And the emerging scandal of vaccine damage that was forced on people who were at little risk from the virus.

The whole covid thing has been memory holed, deliberately by manufacturing new 'crises'

Javid went to the dispatch box and actually said 200 thousand people were catching covid A DAY!

And they are obsessed about so called parties, when that lie was designed to force the country into yet another disastrous lockdown.

Cider?

edy • August 5, 2022 6:07 PM BST
Aug 5, 2022 -- 5:46PM, Cider wrote:

yes it's part of back and forth debate. i don't want them to be kicked off the forum (the preferred method of how those with liberalist tendencies would like to treat their opponents)


citation please

edy • August 5, 2022 6:37 PM BST
Alternatively, as a first step, can you make two lists? One in which you list those forumites that you deem to have liberalist tendencies and another in which you list the names that you deem satisfy your alleged preferred method of having opponents kicked off the forum.

And they are obsessed about so called parties, when that lie was designed to force the country into yet another disastrous lockdown.

And what part of the Partygate scandal was a lie?

Only the many many bare faced lies told by The Sleaze and his chums.

Amazing how Conservative party members aren't asking questions about the NHS crisis.

I thought with their age profile tending to be quite elderly they'd be demanding solutions that bring down waiting times. After years of failure do the public now see 30 week waiting times as inevitable?

Cider?

edy • August 5, 2022 6:07 PM BST
Aug 5, 2022 -- 5:46PM, Cider wrote:

yes it's part of back and forth debate. i don't want them to be kicked off the forum (the preferred method of how those with liberalist tendencies would like to treat their opponents)


citation please

edy • August 5, 2022 6:37 PM BST
Alternatively, as a first step, can you make two lists? One in which you list those forumites that you deem to have liberalist tendencies and another in which you list the names that you deem satisfy your alleged preferred method of having opponents kicked off the forum.

Going for the high status type handbook yet again, Ciderchen?

High Status Type Handbook:

1. Spout any random nonsense and dearly hope nobody notices
2. If someone does notice, roll onto the side, arms and legs away from the body, let tongue hang out, eyes closed and play dead