Truss v Sunak BBC1. Impressions I'll go first..

Liz is closer to her mike than Rishi.

No tie Rishi.

Sunak is twice as bright as Truss.

Yes he is but he's looking like a bully.

Sunak seems very excitable.

Sunak doing a lot of jumping in and shouting over Liz Truss when she is speaking

Yes, he has to pull back on looking too overbearing.

Liz's best option is to start crying as its highly unlikely she's going to grab the intellectual high ground..

Truss will just drone on

Since 1945 the Tories have been in office for 48 years. They repaid debt in just four of them. The total they repaid was just £7 billion in current prices, which is utterly insignificant. Tories simply do not repay debt. Why do they keep claiming they do and will?

Richard Murphy.




Sunak far too domineering, he needs to let her speak
and make gaffs.

And these two are the best the Tories have got. Surely not - god help us.

I know the hand movements are important since Blair popularised them but Truss needs more practice,not flowing at all and way too stiff,needs more natural hand flow.

Team Truss won't be doing this again - I'm sure she is not but Sunak makes her look like a dunce.

What is wrong with Tik Tok?

It’s about time Britains leaders said we are not getting involved in anything to do with China or Russia or any other foreign country

Jul 25, 2022 -- 9:37PM, lfc1971 wrote:

It’s about time Britains leaders said we are not getting involved in anything to do with China or Russia or any other foreign country

Looking forward to the Qatar world cup then? :-)

We all know who the BBC want to win.

Sunak was chosen to replace Johnson in last election.

Of course he's good at debates but he's speaking
way too much.

i dont ....who ?

Liz Truss is wearing one of them dresses popularised on
the apprentice, worn by candidates

You would hardly believe Truss is the more likely to win this vote.

Is this what democracy has juddered to?

Qatar shouldn’t be hosting a World Cup

Rishi must have had 2/3rds of the airtime. Lovely impartial BBC

I think she will get sympathy vote from her supporters.

This is reality tv world

BITCOIN PUMPING DURING THIS DEBATE! LFG!

What was the point of earrings v suits question? Still nothing on illegal immigration.

Tory Party members have already made their mind up.

Sunak starting to pick up audience applause

Mic wright


Sunak’s moved on from shouting at Liz Truss to shouting at Faisal Islam. He looks petulant, like the head boy who everyone hates. Truss is talking absolute horse **** but she’s not remotely being rattled by him. She has the confidence of the happy idiot #BBCOurNextPM

... And applause for truss

Sunak knows he is still well behind after that debate.

what an embarrassing couple of no marks

Neither candidate won. The Tory Party won.

LOL UB

absolutely nothing to fear for the Truss backers. the rich Rishi team obviously know that they are losing. his aggression done him no favours. at all.

Sunak won, but by too much, so he loses.

Interesting how they got a Tory voting audience. And this audience were all sensible for a change!

Chris packham


My throat is sore . I’ve never , ever shouted so much at a TV in all my life . The poodles left the kitchen . And sanity , integrity and hope left with them . Hopeless . Literally . The world is actually dying and they’re still  in the playground.

UK voters who watched the BBC debate: Who performed best?

Rishi Sunak: 39%
Liz Truss: 38%

via @OpiniumResearch




Money buyers nearly gubbed

Conservative voters thought Truss did better (47% vs 38% for Sunak).
Labour voters thought Sunak did better (41% vs 30% for Truss).

Over 1,000 regular voters that watched the debates were divided on who the Conservatives should elect as their leader.

43% thought the Conservatives should elect Rishi Sunak.
41% think they should elect Liz Truss.

After watching the debates:

> 47% of viewers thought that Rishi Sunak would be a good prime minister,
> while 45% thought Liz Truss would be a good prime minister.

Voters thought that Rishi Sunak came across as more competent and most trusted to handle the economy.

Liz Truss was seen as more compassionate and trusted to tackle illegal immigration.

Crazy stats. Truss pretending Sunak shut her down was a godsend for her.

PRICE SURGE: Liz Truss moves up to a 71% favourite.

Oh my.

What would she have to do not to be PM?

It's like favourite on x factor fluffs words, and tops poll.

Simon argues with will young, and Will romps home.


Sunak a bit naive thinking hectoring is a good look
against a woman.

Still got sky debate

He needs to learn bigly from tonight's errors

1.55 Truss at 10pm, 1.36 now,i'm gobsmacked!

Pukeworthy

She was a 20 point leader before tonite,
he simply alienated himself to her supporters.

Whoever Rishi's advisors on approach were had a mare..

overly aggressive, arrogant, slightly bullying to both presenter and opponent..

Truss is best given plenty of time to prove she's not up to it...not be cut off all the time as you might with a higher calibre candidate..

Mr Sunak is arrogant. I think he believes he's cleverer than every one because he went to a very good fee-paying school, and helped ran his mother's pharmacy. He also preaches.

However, he's lacking humility, compassion and empathy of the electorate.

We know the British public hate a know all and especially one not their own.

I'm obviously involved in Truss to win the contest quite heavily, but tonight was the first time I personally thought there were signs she could be a very decent pm. Because she isn't a slick performer, she comes across as quite authentic (for a politician). She's better when it goes off script, like when the bbc shill read out a line of her book to catch her out. I sensed the audience was warming to her towards the end.

She does need to learn to do something other than the choppy arm signal.

Obviously, quite heavily, what a cracker? Ha

well yes, the Tory membership are not usually attracted to socialists.

Shes on her way...

Mr Sunak does not have the credentials to preach to his colleagues or electorate. For him to say the Covid bill should not be shouldered by the younger generation was totally lacking empathy and understanding of the cost of living faced by the present generation; Covid and Ukraine war were not caused by the present generation. If anything, the present generation has never had it so good eg freedom of choice, free education, nhs, etc.

I think Mr Sunak is oblivious to the present predicament of electorate. He may preach about inflation however, I think he clearly is not affected by the present cost of living.

I think I'm definitely not a tory. I thought Sunak absolutely wiped the floor with her. I mean he could form coherent sentences for a start and was very much on the front foot. Someone mentioned that she looked like an Apprentice candidate and that feels apt. She's utterly hopeless. Rabbit in the headlights. Just all vague promises of tax cuts to be paid back after everyone's died.


So I check the exchange to see if the flip flop's happening and she actually shortens up!


Don't know what the tory members see in her but it's clear I'm not one of them!

Yes, probably best you don't bet on politics, as your political instinct is evidently somewhat lacking.

All the Tory haters on here seem to think rich Rishi is the nuts, and Truss is useless. That's all you need to know, to explain the betting in the run off.

Go on then. What did you see in Truss's performance last night that makes her PM material?

I've posted some comments earlier on the thread, but the first point to make is this market is about the electorate of circa 140K Tory Party members. Who are electing their next Tory party leader. So many forumites over the last couple of weeks have fallen into the trap of thinking they betting on a general election type market. rich Rishi's aggressive nature will have gone down as well as a cold bucket of sick with this electorate. it may well have gone down well on twatter (they tend to love the aggressive and bully type tactics), but the vast majority of them are completely irrelevant to this contest.

PorcupineorPineapple had Truss to win the leadership from the get-go.

what are you, his overprotective granny?

pineapple quote:

Don't know what the tory members see in her but it's clear I'm not one of them!

I mean, you come out all aggressive but my point was that I understand it's voted for by the members and I was joking that they must see things different to me. I don't need a "financial expert" to explain that to me.



Is it the "she's a bit crap" thing that makes you think she's a good pm? Jesus wept, a couple of years of Farage, Trump and Johnson have really lowered some people's expectations.

I am with Porcupine in this,it is a no contest through sheer ability,i can only think Truss is very much pushed on the ERG side(i know it is a members vote) and that looks like counting.

The common theme with this gov is,

Promise everything,
Deliver nothing
Blame someone else.

Truss is playing by the book.

Sorry for bringing some factual knowledge to this when you deliberately misunderstand and misportray his statements.

Actually, not sorry.

As for the thing you quoted Cider. That doesn't go counter to anything. The statement acknowledges that PorcupineorPineapple knows she is popular with the leadership, as he had previously already recognised by having her from the get-go for leaderhsip, but that he personally isn't quite sure why they deem her better than her competition. A question he asked you, but which mysteriously circled around and blabbered about how stupid everyone is for not recognising it's a vote by party members instead of a general election or twitter.

Apologies, I didn't realised you don't actually mean what you post, pineapple. Duly noted for the future. Some people may consider your post as being quite rude and aggressive towards Truss.

For the umpteenth time, in case you've not read this from me before, politics is about the least worst. In the US right now, as in the so called leader of the free world, we don't even have that.

And yes, my personal pick was Kemi, betting apart, not Truss. I would have had Braverman ahead too, so out of all the people who ran, Truss would have been my third choice. As we stand, personally, for me Truss is by far the least worst. If it ends up being Truss vs Starmer in a GE, that would still stand.

I'm a 'floating' voter, so it's not impossible that I wouldn't back Starmer. To date, I can't think of anything that he has tangibly done that would encourage me to consider switching my vote. I did however tell my MP I wouldn't vote for him at the next election if he voted for vaccine passports (which he did, alas).

I was with PoP in thinking Sunak the more credible candidate but, on reflection, the true face of Brexit is Truss.

Ok, back to topic. Cider can ignore if it upsets him.


Thought Sunak had her on brexit. Her response to strongly advocating remain was very weak imo. I also thought he at least acknowledged the reality of the current financial situation that we're in (and thought his mentioning that this tallied with conservative values would cut through). Her retort of just tax cuts to be paid off at some unknown future time just felt ridiculous to me.

It's a weird time. Traditional conservative fiscal policy seems to be out the door. The members just want a giveaway that their generation will never have to pay back it seems.

Also interesting how it does seem to be the establishment pushing her hard. Given she so clearly lacks the competence, it makes me wonder if she's just there to be a poodle and to be told what to do.

I think the other key thing is that while this is a decision for the membership, it ultimately has to be someone who can win the next election and so is also attractive to a wider section of the population. I think they're both on rocky ground tbh, though for different reasons. But it feels like the tories might be walking into a Corbyn-style trap where they are picking someone they like but could well be anathema to the floating voters.

Quote....

'.... " We are having a really serious discussion,” Truss said at one point, which is the sort of thing that only needs asserting when the opposite is true. It was not a real debate. This is not a safe way to choose a prime minister. It is not a healthy way to run a country....'

....." I think Mr Sunak is oblivious to the present predicament of electorate. He may preach about inflation however, I think he clearly is not affected by the present cost of living....."


Neither are the vast majority of Tory party members !

Truss came across very well , she’s diligent and has conservative values
Her policies also are good . Hopefully she becomes PM - it will be a very difficult task she is undertaking

unitedbiscuits 25 Jul 22 21:32 
Team Truss won't be doing this again - I'm sure she is not but Sunak makes her look like a dunce.


That's because she is !!

impossible123 25 Jul 22 22:58 
Mr Sunak is arrogant. I think he believes he's cleverer than every one because he went to a very good fee-paying school, and helped ran his mother's pharmacy. He also preaches.

However, he's lacking humility, compassion and empathy of the electorate.



Just like his ex boss !!!

Members had decided on Truss before last night

That she lost just brings them out more adamant
she's the best candidate.

Form a square around the pritster mentality.


Reality tv is killing sense in grown up vote world.


Democracy is dying as there are too many happy
to choose bad candidates and follow them over a cliff.

The British people elected Johnson as PM
The usual suspects weren’t happy . Now Boris has been pushed out
The elected party is choosing voting for a new leader - and the usual suspects are still not happy

Makes you wonder what sort of democracy that they would be happy with

First line is a lie. We elect a party, not a PM.


As for unhappy, who's unhappy? We're just discussing their relative merits and laughing at the saps who keep supporting them after each debacle.

That’s a lie you don’t elect a party , you elect your local mp

So you agree you were lying then

No I wasn’t lying
But pineapple was going by his line of reasoning

So you agree you were lying then …

Truss is seen as having outperformed Sunak on every issue covered in the debate, according to Tory members

Ukraine: +44 Truss lead
Cost of living: +21
Levelling up: +21
Winning an election: +13
Boris Johnson: +11
Taxation: +9
Environment: +6
Brexit: +4

Yougov

Truss came across as more in touch and trustworthy in the debate, according to Tory members

In touch with ordinary people
Truss 63% / Sunak 19%

Likeable
Truss 54% / Sunak 35%

Trustworthy
Truss 51% / Sunak 37%

Prime Ministerial
Truss 42% / Sunak 43%

Tory members think both candidates performed well in last night's leadership debate, but more say so of Truss than Sunak

Truss
Did well: 78%
Did badly: 21%

Sunak
Did well: 65%
Did badly: 34%

Our snap poll of 507 Tory party members who watched last night's BBC debate shows that Truss is seen as having performed best

Liz Truss: 50%
Rishi Sunak: 39%

Liz Truss looks as though she might be one of those people who will take time in a new job
And at first you might think she isn’t sure what she is doing and isn’t the right person
But given a bit of time will turn out to be very competent and talented - there are people like that and they are the best

First of all i am neutral on these 2. What was clear to me on the great economic divide is that Sunak new his stuff and various institutions have since agreed with him. However, I feel that tory members want Truss to be right rather than know she is and will vote accordingly.

Yeah, think that's summed it up pretty well

Truss wins it for sure

Sunak is an loud bully