Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
potlis
20 Apr 20 10:27
Joined:
Date Joined: 21 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 1,990 | Blogger: potlis's blog
...and it leading to a second lockdown.

WTF would you go for a second lockdown when it was obvious the first one didn't work? what, you keep repeating it in the hope of a different result.
Pause Switch to Standard View Government worrying about a second...
Show More
Loading...
Report geordie1956 April 20, 2020 11:38 AM BST
The 1st has worked because the NHS hasn't gone into complete overload with staff unable to cope with the numbers of patients that were feared .. social distancing has done its job to date
The Gov't failed to deal with the problem at the outset & now the are afraid of using release measures because of fear if we need another lockdown ...
What are they doing now .. waiting to see what the results are in other European countries and hoping they don't suffer from a re-emergence of Covid
They are reacting to everything and not being pro-active .... a clear sign of poor Government   ... what did anyone expect with a charlatan at the helm
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 20, 2020 11:55 AM BST
Point is the first one is working. Problem will be if we re-open too soon, don't make the necessary testing etc and then have to lock down again. That would really put the tin hat on an amazing feat of mismanagement.
Report potlis April 20, 2020 11:59 AM BST
Was it only about the NHS, I thought the idea of the lockdown was to starve the virus of its victims and thereby prevent the spread.
Report peckerdunne April 20, 2020 12:10 PM BST
a 3rd wave a 4th wave, it will be a year plus, have to keep the R down, it takes time and effort.
Report Foinavon April 20, 2020 12:11 PM BST
The source of the Bliar virus was on TV again today. He might have been talking sense but I don't know as I couldn't hear him for all the abuse I was shouting at the screen.
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 20, 2020 12:12 PM BST
That's true I think but it was only after they admitted defeat in the containment phase. Once the virus was allowed to land here and spread without any checks then the next step was to limit it to ensure hospitals weren't overwhelmed.

Presumably the point of any exit strategy is that we go back to the position we were in in late feb but this time make more than a feeble attempt at containment.

The virus doesn't follow protocol and if you've got 20 infected in London then it can quickly mushroom into thousands again within days. If you want to avoid another lockdown then you need to all but eradicate the virus this time round.
Report peckerdunne April 20, 2020 12:18 PM BST
If you want to avoid another lockdown then you need to all but eradicate the virus this time round.

A true statement of fact and something that wont be happening.
Report potlis April 20, 2020 12:19 PM BST
Would we be looking at 3rd and 4th lockdowns, or will it depend on the situation with the NHS?

Sounds like herd immunity, but in stages.
Report geordie1956 April 20, 2020 12:25 PM BST
Other than a vaccine the only real hope is to have testing on a major scale & that isn't likely for some months ... realistically the economy cannot wait for that length of time so we need some release mechanism whilst still keeping the virus under control so a 2nd or more waves don't add to the pressures on the NHS - social distancing does work but if we move back to as we were before then another spike is almost certain
Its a real problem; perhaps application of restrictions within different regions for specific periods might be a short term benefit so we have some continuity of normal life
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 12:52 PM BST
should be less gatherings by choice, the public is better informed
but the lockdown is rightly extended

had we locked down sooner we would still have 10,000 people alive, and be
looking to lift the lockdown in stages from now.
Report Foinavon April 20, 2020 12:58 PM BST
Some of them would have died of other things. Some of them probably did die of other things.
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 20, 2020 1:14 PM BST
My mum's best friend would still be here. She was as fit as a fiddle and only caught it in her last few days at work. Still, some people see underlying issues as "deserves to die" if their chosen poltics suit.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 1:35 PM BST
some of them 20,000 would have died, but at least 10,000 would still be alive had we locked down with due haste.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 1:37 PM BST
we need to get masks ready for opening up the country, it should be a priority

they are easy to make if you cant buy one,


government really needs to get this message across to keep future waves of infection as
small as possible
Report Angoose April 20, 2020 2:38 PM BST

Apr 20, 2020 -- 6:11AM, Foinavon wrote:


The source of the Bliar virus was on TV again today. He might have been talking sense but I don't know as I couldn't hear him for all the abuse I was shouting at the screen.


He actually was talking a lot of sense, but you have highlighted a significant problem.
Far too many people in society will only hear the message if they like the messenger.

Report Angoose April 20, 2020 2:43 PM BST
I hear a good analogy used to describe easing lockdown measures too early just the other day.
It made a comparison to taking a parachute jump.

You jump out of the plane, and you quickly accelerate and reach a very high terminal velocity.
You pull the ripcord on your parachute, and you gradually decelerate until you are in control and moving slowly.

You then cut the cords on your parachute. Shocked
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 2:58 PM BST
or breaking in a car when seeing a traffic jam ahead of you.

lift your foot off break too soon, or hit accelerate having slowed ....


bang!
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 2:58 PM BST
I wasn’t sure bLiar offered that much in the interview. He is a clever man, however, and should be listened to but we should remember experts are not always right.
Report Angoose April 20, 2020 3:06 PM BST
Boris Johnson's government was "probably slow" in its early response to the coronavirus, Tony Blair has said.

The former prime minister also told Sky News that he "can't see any way out" of the COVID-19 lockdown without mass testing of the public.

It comes as his Tony Blair Foundation for Global Change laid out a possible exit plan for easing the coronavirus restrictions brought in last month.

Mr Blair, who was in office from 1997 to 2007, said the outbreak was the "most complicated and difficult challenge I have ever seen in politics".

And he said his intention in publishing a possible exit strategy was done in the spirit of offering "constructive advice" to Mr Johnson.

Mr Blair's plan includes:

- Mass testing of the public, "including the development of the community force" to help with the process
- Ensuring there is "mask acquisition and production on a vast scale" for front-line staff
- On the development of a vaccine, the report calls for "utilisation of every means nationally and globally to identify those treatments which can reduce the severity of the disease"
- Once new cases fall substantially, the UK could consider easing restrictions by opening schools first
- Age segmentation could be implemented, with younger people at much lower risk being allowed to go back to work sooner
- In his Sky interview, the former PM suggested tasking a senior minister with specific elements of the COVID-19 response, such as provision of personal protective equipment and mass testing
Report sofiakenny April 20, 2020 3:10 PM BST
They are usually correct far more often than that Bojo idiot.
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 3:28 PM BST
I have seen better experts on this forum than those in charge and when scientists say they have seen no evidence that masks have any beneficial effect I just want to shout Liar.

I remember JVT stating this and it seemed clear to me he didn’t want  the public buying masks

bLiar has not come out with anything new. Members here have stated all these things possibly even about a global vaccine cure.

You don’t need a degree In the art of the bleedin’ obvious...........or maybe you do!

The scientists and Politicians have  shown very little common sense.
Report potlis April 20, 2020 4:20 PM BST
Take your pick with experts/ professors, there's one for every point of view
Is the one below right or wrong?



UK coronavirus outbreak peaked before 'unnecessary' lockdown, claims Oxford Uni professor
Professor Carl Heneghan, director of the centre for evidence-based medicine, says the UK should lift its lockdown, which he claims is going to cause more damage than coronavirus

ByMatthew Dresch
14:52, 20 APR 2020
NEWS

Professor Carl Heneghan claims the Government is listening to the wrong scientific advice

An Oxford University professor claims Britain's coronavirus outbreak peaked before the 'unnecessary' lockdown was put in place.

Professor Carl Heneghan, director of the centre for evidence-based medicine, believes infections were at their highest around mid-March - 21 days before the country recorded its worst day for deaths on April 8.

NHS England reported 803 coronavirus deaths on April 8, the highest number of fatalities announced in a single day so far, with fatalities appearing to fall on the days after that.

The figure is not concrete as it may be updated in the future - and it also only covers deaths in hospitals.

Professor Heneghan has accused the Government of listening to the wrong scientific advice - and urged leaders to lift the lockdown.

Professor Heneghan says Sweden has not suffered a 'doomsday scenario' despite resisting lockdown

He told Mail Online : "The UK Government keeps saying it is using the best science.

"But it appears to be losing sight of what’s actually going on. We’ve been getting scientific advice that is consistently wrong.

"It has failed to look at all the data and understand when the peak of infections actually occurred."

He said infections dropped by 50 per cent between March 16 - when the Government launched a hand washing and social distancing drive - and the lockdown on March 24.

NHS England figures appear to show deaths from the virus peaked on April 8
The expert said the prediction models used by the scientists often proved to be 'some way out' and insisted that the lockdown will be more damaging for the UK than coronavirus.

Professor Heneghan pointed to Sweden as an example of a country that had 'held its nerve' in resisting lockdown and was not suffering a 'doomsday scenario'.

He urged the Government to reopen society, warning that the restrictions would have a severe impact on the economy and people's mental and physical health.

The practising GP told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The key is no-one has really understood how many people actually have the infection.


"You could do that really quickly with random sampling of a thousand people in London who thought they had the symptoms.

"You could do that in the next couple of days and get a really key handle on that problem and we'd be able to then understand coming out of lockdown much quicker.

"In fact, the damaging effect now of lockdown is going to outweigh the damaging effect of coronavirus."

DailyMirror
Follow @DailyMirror
Report potlis April 20, 2020 4:20 PM BST
Take your pick with experts/ professors, there's one for every point of view
Is the one below right or wrong?



UK coronavirus outbreak peaked before 'unnecessary' lockdown, claims Oxford Uni professor
Professor Carl Heneghan, director of the centre for evidence-based medicine, says the UK should lift its lockdown, which he claims is going to cause more damage than coronavirus

ByMatthew Dresch
14:52, 20 APR 2020
NEWS

Professor Carl Heneghan claims the Government is listening to the wrong scientific advice

An Oxford University professor claims Britain's coronavirus outbreak peaked before the 'unnecessary' lockdown was put in place.

Professor Carl Heneghan, director of the centre for evidence-based medicine, believes infections were at their highest around mid-March - 21 days before the country recorded its worst day for deaths on April 8.

NHS England reported 803 coronavirus deaths on April 8, the highest number of fatalities announced in a single day so far, with fatalities appearing to fall on the days after that.

The figure is not concrete as it may be updated in the future - and it also only covers deaths in hospitals.

Professor Heneghan has accused the Government of listening to the wrong scientific advice - and urged leaders to lift the lockdown.

Professor Heneghan says Sweden has not suffered a 'doomsday scenario' despite resisting lockdown

He told Mail Online : "The UK Government keeps saying it is using the best science.

"But it appears to be losing sight of what’s actually going on. We’ve been getting scientific advice that is consistently wrong.

"It has failed to look at all the data and understand when the peak of infections actually occurred."

He said infections dropped by 50 per cent between March 16 - when the Government launched a hand washing and social distancing drive - and the lockdown on March 24.

NHS England figures appear to show deaths from the virus peaked on April 8
The expert said the prediction models used by the scientists often proved to be 'some way out' and insisted that the lockdown will be more damaging for the UK than coronavirus.

Professor Heneghan pointed to Sweden as an example of a country that had 'held its nerve' in resisting lockdown and was not suffering a 'doomsday scenario'.

He urged the Government to reopen society, warning that the restrictions would have a severe impact on the economy and people's mental and physical health.

The practising GP told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "The key is no-one has really understood how many people actually have the infection.


"You could do that really quickly with random sampling of a thousand people in London who thought they had the symptoms.

"You could do that in the next couple of days and get a really key handle on that problem and we'd be able to then understand coming out of lockdown much quicker.

"In fact, the damaging effect now of lockdown is going to outweigh the damaging effect of coronavirus."

DailyMirror
Follow @DailyMirror
Report unitedbiscuits April 20, 2020 4:23 PM BST
Yes, potless, I heard your guy on the radio this morning.
What he said made more sense to me than Govt "strategy."
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 4:28 PM BST
In collaboration with the British Medical Journal, Carl Heneghan and team found no evidence that Tamiflu helped to reduce complications of influenza.[6][7] This has become a controversial topic, as the United Kingdom government spend £473 million on the purchase of Tamiflu, despite the systematic review[8] claiming to find no evidence for the effectiveness of it.[9]
Report Angoose April 20, 2020 4:46 PM BST
Did he present any evidence to support his claims Confused
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 4:52 PM BST
Just by washing our hands less people are dying from flu
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 4:55 PM BST
there was a self imposed lockdown before it was made official. folk saw spain and italy for themselves.

government did issue some advice before later enforcing their own recommendations

is he really suggesting if nothing had been done we would have had less deaths ......or same amount,.... (or more)?

the figures had us going up to 200k deaths not 20k, and folk playing down the danger led to the outbreaks we still see.



we could try opening up now, the 200k should not happen due to awareness, but some smaller outbreaks would
be sure to happen, which will surely be even smaller if we give it another three weeks.

smaller still if we emerge with masks
Report potlis April 20, 2020 4:59 PM BST
Get him into court, ask him the questions under oath Happy
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:03 PM BST
there are no right answers that would stand up in court, we cant run the experiment side by side in parallel universes.

i'd rather save 180k  lives and work on mental health issues that may arise, and deal with finances.


some folk see loss of life as acceptable, ...i dont agree with it.
Report unitedbiscuits April 20, 2020 5:12 PM BST
He was interviewed for four minutes. One thing he said that did ring true was that the modelling was so wide to be almost meaningless. Govt are taking their cue from the modellers at Imperial and they predicted an unmitigated death toll of 20,000 to 500,000. Everyone focuses on the 1/2 m figure..the eventual figure may be 20,000 and the Imperial team can say they were right all along.
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 5:13 PM BST
I think we have been in lockdown long enough. We should be looking to get people back to work. Continue with social distancing where possible. Provide sanitizer in the street ffs and on or near mass transit  points. Stop unnecessary air travel for now. Take temperatures T airports and impose quarantine conditions on them. Tag them if necessary.

We know more about the virus now. We know the critical importance of hand washing and imho people on tubes, trains and buses should be wearing masks. I personally would make it compulsory for the first two weeks. If people are not prepared to wear a mask for the safety of fellow passengers they should be free to walk anywhere they want.
Report potlis April 20, 2020 5:19 PM BST
I think the professor would argue that the experiments are running side by side, hence his reference to Sweden.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:24 PM BST
if he had the correct figures ( not yet available)  and not government massaged figures which are bandied about
then he may well change his mind.

sweden and uk are different countries with different infrastructures, ...apples and oranges
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:31 PM BST
Einhorn was one of 22 researchers who on Tuesday called for Sweden’s politicians to break with the country’s tradition of entrusting policy to its expert agencies, and to seize control of Sweden’s coronavirus strategy from the agency.


She argues that the reason why Sweden has a much higher number of cases in care homes than in Norway and Finland is not because of the homes but because of Sweden’s decision to keep schools and kindergartens open, and not to shut restaurants or bars.




so another expert , another idea, and if death is acceptable do like the swedes...

lena einhorn is a virologist, and sweden like uk are not testing all deaths in care homes
Report Angoose April 20, 2020 5:32 PM BST
Sweden currently running at 156 deaths per million of population, Germany is at 56.
Report potlis April 20, 2020 5:34 PM BST
I don't think the modelling made any distinctions regarding social stuctures or infrastructures, it was basically follow our advice or else.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:38 PM BST
no it was specific to the data arriving, couldnt be more specific. but with lessons from elsewhere.

other countries are lifting lockdown, but we are aware of uk specific conditions to the virus and are not.

the medicine is tailored to the patient.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:40 PM BST
one specific condition considered was the state of nhs after 10 years of tory austerity that
sweden may or may not have suffered but left uk with dreadful stats for hospital beds
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 5:40 PM BST
They are all guessing to a large degree. Are we risk managers or gamblers?

So many variables nobody could possibly claim to have the right answers
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:42 PM BST
so of the argument is simply how many old folk you are prepared to see die to limit damage to the economy that will lead to deaths in years to come .

no right answers for sure.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 5:42 PM BST
some of the
Report potlis April 20, 2020 5:56 PM BST
I think you missing the point, proponents of the lockdown made no subtle arguments about social structure, they said the coronavirus was highly contagious and unless we lockdown it would result in hundreds of thousands of deaths per country, Sweden included.

The only difference is that...up to now.... Sweden has chosen to ignore that advice.
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 5:58 PM BST
No right answer along with no PPE and agency workers
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 6:00 PM BST
you are missing the point

sweden has had more deaths than if they locked down.

they seem, at the moment to find it acceptable.
Report potlis April 20, 2020 6:00 PM BST
It was only when Sweden decided to ignore the advice that people started dreaming up reasons why you can't compare it to other Countries.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 6:02 PM BST
we in the uk do not lock down every flu season , even for the average 10,000 or so deaths

it is deemed acceptable
Report potlis April 20, 2020 6:03 PM BST
And you know that how?  as you said earlier you can't run the two along side each other.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 6:08 PM BST
because of the old folk dying in care homes in sweden , higher than in norway and finland, as per my previous post.

not all tesyed, and not added to offical fiures which are still high.
Report Angoose April 20, 2020 6:09 PM BST

Apr 20, 2020 -- 11:56AM, potlis wrote:


I think you missing the point, proponents of the lockdown made no subtle arguments about social structure, they said the coronavirus was highly contagious and unless we lockdown it would result in hundreds of thousands of deaths per country, Sweden included.The only difference is that...up to now.... Sweden has chosen to ignore that advice.


Where is that advice on Sweden, can you provide a link ?

Report potlis April 20, 2020 6:15 PM BST
Sweden counts coronavirus deaths in care homes but many countries do not
2:37 min 

My



Share
Published torsdag 16 april kl 11.00
Swedish Radio News reports many countries in Europe and in the United States are mostly recording COVID-19 deaths from hospitals, and don't include deaths from nursing homes or other long-term care facilities.
In Sweden, however, deaths from the coronavirus at nursing homes are counted toward the official tally of how many have died from the disease. For example, Stockholm medical officials said a third of deaths recorded last week came from nursing home residents.

If someone is showing symptoms for the coronavirus but dies before a test is carried out, it's up to the attending physician to decide whether or not to carry out a test post-mortem.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 6:26 PM BST
yes counted, not all tested, well done
Report potlis April 20, 2020 6:31 PM BST
General advice wasn't it, don't recall Sweden being exempted, seems to make people very angry that Sweden won't fall into line.
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 6:38 PM BST
How long do you think it will take before we can test sufficient numbers?

We need to work
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 20, 2020 7:02 PM BST
if it works for sweden then great, unless you are old in a care home.



we seem to be miles behind with testing, but testing without using the results is a waste.
Report Whisperingdeath April 20, 2020 8:11 PM BST
Do you think covid-19 will disappear?

Do you think a vaccine will be around any time soon?

We could have another peak  soon after a return.  We must get fit, healthy and able bodies back to work
Report moondan April 20, 2020 10:02 PM BST
With Boris in charge it would be incompetent to rule out a third or even a 5th wave,Cry
Report ben96 April 20, 2020 11:04 PM BST
Not sure how we can stop a 2nd wave hitting the UK you can impose social distancing but given the behaviour of people in this country people will ignore it and think life will be back to normal. It only takes a a small percentage to do that and it will spread again! The government know how hard it will be to lock everyone down again so can see them being extra cautious and keeping us locked in as long as possible and seeing what happens to other countries. This lockdown has worked its primary objective which is to make sure the NHS isnt over run. I know people who work at our local hospital who have never seen it so queit admittedly that is in the South West which has the lowest amount of cases. Surely herd immunity will be the only way out of the situation as we go forward and the UK may not face as big a 2nd wave due to not locking down as early as other countries.
Report tobermory April 21, 2020 2:40 AM BST
People who support the lockdown, which ironically includes both the Government and the people who hate the government, can never be wrong, because however many die, it would always have been more but for the lockdown.
Report Angoose April 21, 2020 4:14 AM BST
Is it your opinion that if there had been no lockdown, the death figures would have be the same or lower than with a lockdown ?

To help you with your response, I have included below an example of an earlier response you made to an easily verifiable fact that you had challenged some five hours after the initial post. 

tobermory • April 19, 2020 7:51 PM BST
Apr 19, 2020 -- 2:57PM, Angoose wrote:

Apparently, Gordon Brown chaired all of the COBRA meetings held to discuss the foot and mouth crisis.Damian McBride@DPMcBrideDuring the Foot & Mouth crisis in 2007, GB didn’t just attend every COBRA meeting, he chaired them all. There were no 'experts' telling him when to tune in. If that's what we got from a PM for a disease that didn't even threaten human life, was it too much to ask for Coronavirus?

The foot and mouth crisis was in 2001. If Brown was chairing COBRA meetings then where was Blair ? Playing tennis
Report Whisperingdeath April 21, 2020 7:52 AM BST
I think you may have read that wrong angoose. Not sure that is his opinion.

I think what may have happened is they wanted to go fo4 Herd Immunity straight away but panicked hence the confusing messages and strategy.

I think the lockdown came too late to be as successful as it could have been but late as it was no doubt it has saved some lives in the short term and the NHS from being overrun.

We are not even discussing the economy at the moment. This can is being kicked down the road in the same way as the medical response has been. It will come back to haunt us.

People are more aware of the dangers now and hand washing is proving the most effective tool against fighting this disease. Stress is a killer too. There is going to be a lot is stress floating around soon when people are losing their business, jobs and homes.

The problem with testing is gong to be a major problem still
Report nineteen points April 21, 2020 8:10 AM BST
surely anything we do here is lessened by letting plane loads in everyday from infected countrys?
Report Whisperingdeath April 21, 2020 8:23 AM BST
Exactly
Report lapsy pa April 21, 2020 8:57 AM BST
Based on an Irish report 9 waves and 3 cycles of infection required to reach herd immunity (60% of pop) between 6%-17% will be affected during the current outbreak.

Current outbreak ought to finish mid June with cases falling away in May.

The path of social distancing and goverment restrictions may stay in place until the pandemic is over.


Uk is a different case though,crowded transport,v high density population, i'm not sure in the near term until the new cases start getting low and then social distancing and masks are mandatory,will still be enforced.
It does look hopefully if the peak has been reached but Italy has as well and that is going on so long.
Lifting of borders going to be a problem for a while as well until countries are relatively clear.

Plenty of touting for services like building,rubbish,deliveries of tat ongoing on fb,who wants them if they aren't working.Bit going on despite lockdown all the same.

I can't see much re a gradual lifting til June myself.
Report potlis April 21, 2020 11:02 AM BST
More or less deaths due to the lockdown? It's a morbid but interesting question and probably the one that will be argued over for years to come.

Will there be a final death figure? it will probably only ever be an estimate because some will argue that many corona victim were missed, as will the  lives saved only ever be  an estimate, because no one will be able to say how many deaths occurred due to the lockdown, deaths that wouldn't have happen if not for the lockdown.
Report thegiggilo April 21, 2020 11:11 AM BST
The coronavirus death toll in the UK could be 40% higher than reported, the Office for National Statistics has said.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said it recorded 13,121 deaths in England by April 10, and registered up to April 18.

This is 41% higher than the 9,288 people who died in UK hospitals during the same period reported by the Department of Health.

ONS announced there were 18,516 deaths of all causes in the week ending April 10, which is the biggest total in that week in modern history, and the biggest of any week since 2000.

For all deaths registered up to April 10, 10,350 mentioned Covid-19 on the death certificate.

This compares with 3,475 (21.2% of all deaths) in the previous week.

Care home deaths have doubled in the past four weeks, ONS data suggests, a rise by 2,456, which a 99.4% increase..
Report unitedbiscuits April 21, 2020 11:26 AM BST
There is only one health outcome.

The most important think is not the length of our lives but, if it was, the suspicion still would be that the lockdown will be more damaging than covid-19; the long-term cumulative effect of over-indulgence, boredom, lack of exercise, lack of schooling, lack of stimulation, social contact and adventure on 60 million people. Just the fact that people are no longer troubling doctors with minor ailments nor letting dentists take care of their teeth are factors with long term consequences. Not to mention impoverishment.
Report Manoleeds April 21, 2020 11:34 AM BST
"Surely herd immunity will be the only way out of the situation as we go forward and the UK may not face as big a 2nd wave due to not locking down as early as other countries." But how are you ever going to get herd immunity if you have lockdown?
Report Whisperingdeath April 21, 2020 11:53 AM BST
Interesting to know how many people are dying from flu during The lockdown
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 21, 2020 12:12 PM BST
corona deaths badly under reported and when expert above gets true figures he will surely
change his opinion.


government ineptitude on ppe is going to stop people getting face masks and so will lead to more deaths


elect clowns get carnage
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 21, 2020 12:13 PM BST
the flu season was nearly over a couple of weeks before lockdown

must have taken a fair few all the same, and some folk must have had flu
and corona virus...at a guess that would be a horrid outcome
Report tobermory April 21, 2020 10:11 PM BST

Apr 20, 2020 -- 10:14PM, Angoose wrote:


Is it your opinion that if there had been no lockdown, the death figures would have be the same or lower than with a lockdown ?To help you with your response, I have included below an example of an earlier response you made to an easily verifiable fact that you had challenged some five hours after the initial post.  tobermory • April 19, 2020 7:51 PM BST Apr 19, 2020 -- 2:57PM, Angoose wrote:Apparently, Gordon Brown chaired all of the COBRA meetings held to discuss the foot and mouth crisis.Damian McBride@DPMcBrideDuring the Foot & Mouth crisis in 2007, GB didn’t just attend every COBRA meeting, he chaired them all. There were no 'experts' telling him when to tune in. If that's what we got from a PM for a disease that didn't even threaten human life, was it too much to ask for Coronavirus?The foot and mouth crisis was in 2001. If Brown was chairing COBRA meetings then where was Blair ? Playing tennis


No, I do not know if the lockdown works or not. I was just saying people who support it can always say there would have been more deaths. As for the COBRA thing, Edy already educated me on that. Can't see what it has to do with this thread.

Report jucel69 April 22, 2020 1:40 AM BST

Apr 21, 2020 -- 6:12AM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:


corona deaths badly under reported and when expert above gets true figures he will surelychange his opinion.government ineptitude on ppe is going to stop people getting face masks and so will lead to more deathselect clowns get carnage


Some of the stuff you write is in the upper echelon of tripe.
I was going to write it down to isolation but you've been producing the same guff for a long time

Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com