Indicative Votes 1st April

long afternoon ahead

Motion G, brought by Joanna Cherry, is Parliamentary Supremacy.  This asks the government to seek a further extension if a deal isn't agreed two days before #Brexit. If the EU doesn't accept, MPs will vote between a no-deal Brexit or revoking Article 50.

Protest in the house

The year is 3038!, Parliament enact the weekly voting down of "Theresa May Deal",no one can rememeber this ancient weekly tradition or when it started or what it means.

Theresa May's wax work is rolled out for the vote, lapsy pa?

No,the automaton, in case of "dance moves".

Actually I think it should be similar to Uncle Alberts in Only Fools And Horses (the version in Rodders nightmare where Damian is world leader)

As i said on another thread SS,this should have been done on the day after the referendum result,protocol,parties,whatever were all secondary to the well being of the country. Not knowing what they(UK) want after the leaving date is mind boggling.

Yes this is what should have been done before Article 50 was activated. But the government has opposed parliament having a say at every stop attempting to run some sort of dictatorship.

Why isn't She/they being held to account then or is there no one for them to answer to?

In normal times May would have gone ages ago. But her own party is so divided that they can't oust her.

Complete waste of time these votes all will be voted down and heading for a leave with no deal..

Complete waste of time these votes all will be voted down and heading for a leave with no deal..

3 years after the referendum and Remain being rejected.

Yet parliament is voting on 4 options of Remain tonight?

Customs union drifting 1.55

4 0

Surely he cant give them Wednesday now ffs !

Boles resigns # feckoff

even the remoaner clowns can't decide what they want

Same as it ever was

Apr 1, 2019 -- 10:10PM, yajyaj wrote:

Surely he cant give them Wednesday now ffs !

They already voted to give them Wednesday.

This process might look silly, but in reality isn't that silly, it's only looking that way because it's being done now, it should have been done before we even activated Article 50.

If you take away this process, you realise we're just back to May bring back her deal each week, given that it's not even clear she will get it back through the speaker again let and out it actually passing not like there's another proposal seemingly more worthwhile than this.

One remarkable thing is how few Tories supported literally any options tonight:

15 for confirmatory referendum (253 against)

33 for Norway+ (228 against)

10 for Revoke to prevent no-deal (260 against)

37 for customs union (236 against)

It's because even it's not explicit there's clear a campaign from Tories to talk all these down, they want this process to fail, though f knows what their plan is if it does.

One reason if not the main reason Boles has resigned is he knows that privately Tory whips have been strongly telling MPs don't vote for his Common Market 2.0 something he believes would get much more support if that wasn't the case.

This is the strange thing,the tories have never really wanted to leave without a deal now they are voting against everythung i just dony get it,like some that were interviewed tonight seem to be surging even further to the right.That's why these future votes just look a complete waste of time,the ERG  were the outsiders they must be taking control...

This is the strange thing,the tories have never really wanted to leave without a deal now they are voting against everythung i just dony get it,like some that were interviewed tonight seem to be surging even further to the right.That's why these future votes just look a complete waste of time,the ERG  were the outsiders they must be taking control...

It's because government isn't engaging in the process. Those who want no deal voted against everything tonight, most on the government's payroll voted against everything too bar the odd few who voted for maybe 1-2 options. That's most the Conservative party right there.

When you consider like 160 MPs are on the government payroll.

I mean it's obvious they just want to bring May's deal back again and hope it passes, at what point they give up this strategy though is beyond me. How long can you keep doing this until you finally give it up, a lot of them even doing it atm have to know it's absolute madness what they are currently doing, especially as right now they are driving is into a general election where they will fear being out of power altogether.

All those options were against the Tory and Labour manifestos that they stood on to get into Parliament.

That is why so few Tories can break their election promises and vote for any of them.

If MPs were honest about their beliefs they would just revoke A50. They must all know a customs union option is worse than being a member.

The argument about manifestos is disingenuous as Governments NEVER fulfil all their manifesto promises and many reverse them a lot quicker than two years in.
I do agree with IT's other point although whether revoking is a practical political option must be rather doubtful.
n88uk is of course correct that this whole process should have been thrashed out before we triggered Article 50(Labour were equally culpable there)and gone to the EU actually knowing what we want.

Not too sure how many manifesto promises have been broken following an instruction from the public !, this comparison suggests a lack of understanding of Brexiters, we were asked, we give a clear mandate to leave, we demand to leave under the terms specified.

I love these people who think all 17.4 million agreed with their reasoning. As a matter of fact some leavers were talking about the Norway model in favourable terms during the referendum campaign.

In that case they should have voted remain as it was clear from Mr Cameron "we would leave the customs union", lots of people were talking about lots of things, when the pm says something we should listen imo

Salmon what advantages does a 'Norway Style deal' have over staying the EU?

None at all IT. It would be a Brexit of sorts though so you could argue that the wishes of some of the referendum majority (not yajyaj obviously) had been met.

Btw, welcome back Trader

Order of preference:
1. Free trade deal with EU.
2. Side deals with the EU.
3. Remain in the EU and veto all new moves to federalisation.
4. Remain as ruler taker with no say in Customs Union/Single Market with the EU.

What a waste of time these votes have been,they certainly picked the right day.We pay for Bercow and his cronies to pose for the public.

I would have said Norway is a remain of sorts and very few leave voters would have had that in mind.

It would have more of an effect on the split of the remain vote between hard remainers and soft norway remainers. Imo.

Cooper on sky now , sounds like she wants Wed to herself and "another day" if poss to fiddle the indicative votes # p1ssoff

One of the main arguments from Leave was the Common Market was what we signed up to,and we thought that was alright (of course their heroine Thatcher campaigned to stay in that in 1975) but it's the EU and the political dimension we object to. I am quite prepared to accept that some people voted to leave full stop,but the idea that was the only thing being floated in 2016 is just re-writing history.

When we signed up we had a say in the rules and regulations.

What some of the extreme elements are suggesting now is we join a customs union where we have no say on the rules, laws and trade deals we would be subject to.

For the 5th largest economy in the world to accept this would be bizarre.

No one pushing for this actually supports it over staying in the EU.

I keep saying I agree with that IT. Believe it or not I was a somewhat apprehensive leaver in 2016,having been an enthusistic one in 1975 ( when I was in my pram of course ). It is now clear that we have embedded ourselves so closely in the EU,or at least in the single market, in the last 40 years or so that we can't actually disentangle ourselves without unacceptable problems. In addition one of the few successes for British politicians in the last few decades,The Good Friday Agreement,was clearly implicitly predicated on both countries staying in the EU,or,again,at least the single market. I would now prefer to revoke Article 50 (and indeed have signed the petition along with 6m others)which is one reason why I object to the likes of yajyaj telling us he knows what all the leavers voted for. I'm not sure that not delivering some sort of Brexit is politically wise in the current febrile climate however so would settle for the Norway model,which probably solves the Irish dilemma.

I would have said few support it over leaving.

Norway, or soft brexit for that matter wasnt on the ballot paper because hardly anyone wants it. The mistake people make though is to assume the ones who did voted leave. They didnt. Most of them would have voted remain.

If leave had specified what the wanted in the first place they wouldn't be in this position.

They did. They wanted to leave

I cannot stress enough that all the key players like Dave, Gove, Boris, Corbyn, Farage, Osborne, Clegg, Major, Blair etc said if we vote leave it means leaving the customs union and single market and sealing our borders.

Most of the debates were based around doing free trade deals and stopping free movement of people.

The only people I have heard claiming they did not realise that we wanted to do trade deals and stop free movement of people are those that voted remain and hate democracy.

Norway model is leaving, why are you saying they aren't for it then.

Ive said above, norway is remaining not leaving

Oh so leave doesn't mean leave after all then, it means what you want it to mean.

Norway model is not taking back control of laws, borders, money and being to do our own trade deals. There Norway is not leaving the EU.

Now leavers seems to know what leave entails they don't seem to be for the options that are on the table.

It means what it always meant

It doesnt mean what you want to conflate with leave

So in other words the referendum was flawed as leave could mean whatever you wished, which in most cases didn't actually exist. Hence now why you know what leave is it should go back to the people in its proper form.

No use arguing with fanatics n88uk.
The fact that 48% of those who voted,voted to remain as we are and not for the Norway model seems to be beyond their powers of deduction.

n88uk
02 Apr 19 15:34
Joined: 26 May 12
| Topic/replies: 173,313 | Blogger: n88uk's blog
Now leavers seems to know what leave entails they don't seem to be for the options that are on the table.


^

There are two leave options...

1. Leave with no fixed deal and negotiate from there a free trade deal.
2. Leave with a free trade deal.

Both of those allow us to take back control of our trade deals, laws, borders and money.

It is very very simple.

Sorry Salmon I'm confused, you voted leave thinking we were going to stay in the customs union ?

Boles and Clarke are both remainers and promoting the common market.

Honestly if you wanted norway before the referendum, you would have voted to leave, despite everything Cameron and Osbourne said? Doubt it.

I didn't actually vote as I was on holiday and my postal vote didn't arrive in time. My problem with the EU has always been political as I think it is profoundly undemocratic. I certainly wasn't intending to vote for the mess we have got. And I feel we were misled by some politicians ( Fox's easiest deal in history or whatever £350 million a day for the NHS etc etc ).

Ohh ok, I am certainly no fanatic about Brexit, however I am passionate about democracy, you'll get no bs from me, In my view Parliament couldn't decide so put it to the people, the people decided and many in parliament are now welching on the deal having being elected on a leave platform, we cannot allow this, please come back and once again embrace the sunny lands

Nearly forgot, the £350m was only ever a suggestion and I think most people know that

i thought the 350 was a democratic right

it didnt actually say we would spend £350 m on the nhs, it said lets fund our nhs instead, two diffrent things, aas usual pepople take it the wrong way

so in many ways it was true and not a lie

but we are now 350 short per week

and havnt left yet

nobody could have known they meant it wasnt an extra 350, but
360 lost before we even left

I believe Donny's quoting those GS fantasy numbers again

No indicative votes Monday 310 v 310 , speaker says no

Last time there was a draw was an amendment to the Maastricht Treaty

old woman just wandered in wearing red coat!

whats going on?

cooper amendment for some time tonight wins 312 v 311 ffs

Last time there was a draw was an amendment to the Maastricht Treaty


that was an error corrected the next day for a majority, last real time there was a draw was 1980.

cheers, hopefully the speaker reads this and corrects them all later, I cant find that, what happened for it to take 24 hours for correction ?

These obviously weren't deemed that important as looking at the abstentions certain people clearly weren't present and ayes would have won both if they had been.

Looks as though Corbyn is going to do a U Turn now

"There wasn't as much change as expected", wonder what he was expecting !!

It appears he wasn't aware the withdrawal agreement couldn't be changed , should have watched sky news, its had that running along the bottom of the screen for most of the day

It was always an obvious trap that was heading nowhere. The whole want it over by the weekend revealed that.

You really believe that Corbyn could get meaningful changes put on the PD, agreed by the EU, made legally binding on any future PM, and the deal voted on by Friday. Of course not, it's just so May can pass some blame on to Corbyn when this inevitably fails.

Corbyn just needs to sit there and do nothing

We know who's to blame, and if Corbyn sits pretty he's in number 10 at the GE

Not exactly rocket science

You really believe that Corbyn could get meaningful changes, I dont, he's talking like he did

may has a good deal, it was never gonna be perfect but we should leave with it, its the majority of mps who simply wont leave or at the very least they want to be tied to the eu in some way like single market or customs union, they voted to put article 50 in place and the vote was leave by over a million votes, if i was PM i would simply say its my deal or no deal, take it or leave it, all these remainers that think the united kingdom is gonna crash into oblivion if we dont have a deal, cmon we survived before 1973 and will do again.

May's deal is absolute garbage. You are tied in the EU until you find a solution and agree to their terms. A rule taker with no say. Your negotiating position would be non-existent, the EU can just say take this, you either take it or say no and stay stuck in limbo forever. The Brexiteers know this, the only ones who think otherwise are those being naive enough to think you will find a way out of the backstop.

And the world is a very different place than it was in 1973, the reason the country joined what eventually become the EU in the first place was it was being left behind economically by the countries that had formed it.