is this a corbyn master stroke?

Interesting to see how the BBC has presented this speech live and given an almost presidential presentation this morning. Seems like Paul Mason must stlll be writng the news for the BBC News team ?

'We are world citizens.'

'By accident of birth'

'65 million refugees'

'Free English language classes for refugees and immigrants'

I don't see this ending well for the native working class.

What Corbyn has done is not smart at all, anyone can see through it.

First step is to get the people to accept that staying in the customs union or a customs union is okay. 
When that is accomplished, and everyone agrees it is okay to be part of a customs union,it remains for the EU to reject our ''cake and eat'' it demands.

We will then give in to their terms in order join (and everyone will have already agreed by then that being part of a customs union is a good thing, so who will oppose it?)

Job done and we're still being ruled by the EU.

Thanks for nothing Corbyn, that was Labour's plan all along.

If the government settle for a new deal on anything less than Corbyn has set out, Labour can use that to bash the Tories.
Or if the Tories take the watered down deal to Parliament for a vote which they might lose it could force a general election.

Agree w/ @jeremycorbyn "The EU is not the root of all our problems, and leaving it will not solve all our problems. Likewise the EU is not the source of all enlightenment, and leaving it does not inevitably spell doom for our country. Brexit is what we make of it together.”

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taking that from his speech i can not fault it....but i worry about the end game...crippen if this was labours plan all along i think they would of got here by a different path...if the eu reject what corbyn says we leave..but remember it matters not if labour are not the goverment...nicola sturgeon has just attacked corbyn as a cake and eat it speech?

The EU is not the root of all our problems

So what other problems have we got?
The only other problems we've got apart from who is going to rule us, are the numbers of people and the kind we've let in since Labour came to power in 1997.

just remember 7 mths ago...barry gardiner wrote this..

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/24/leaving-eu-single-market-customs-union-brexit-britain-europe

Corbyn's political beliefs can basically be summarised in two words : BRITAIN LAST

amazing the nonsense that some people can convince themselves that they believe
Corbyn must be laughing to himself I can make these mugs believe anything

Yes it takes a particular type of intellectual and moral dishonesty, well Corbyn is like that, the corbyn supporters are like that, he knows it, , that is clear
It takes only a quick look at something like the op

The EU will reject the proposals.

We've yet to see Corbyn lay his cards on the table.

He drew no red lines or made any threats.

He didn't say what we should accept, he only set out what was desirable.

he did set the red lines...they would not accept being a vassel state..they would not accept FOM cheap labour etc..he also said he didnt want tarrifs..theres 3..i could go into more but i still trying to work out really how bad this is for our side crippen...i must say it could of been worse...but i still wish it would be more stand up and attack....is this a sell out? ..in a way yes..and if it works out that way..labour deserve all thats coming to them..i just carnt stop thinking of frank field...is he mad? or are we missing something..

Corbyn has no red lines, none whatsoever

he wants free movement of labour to continue, that is his goal

tariffs? tariffs are a good thing, every socialist mp should want tariffs
Does Corbyn, who knows

vassell state, well its best to ignore that 3rd point from tony

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/labour-is-no-longer-for-the-many/

lfc you really dont know what a socialists want...

/2 Very interesting interview by @ronbrown01 with @frankfieldteam - suggests Jeremy Corbyn is sticking with his eurosceptic past by asking the EU for something he knows they can't give:
'No way they're going to agree  that we would have our own customs union'

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/2 and Frank Field  says Jeremy Corbyn 'is going in to negotiate this and show he can't get it so he will keep Labour together - we have not seen a PR operation like this since Blair at his height....don't let's underestimate him.'

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tony I didn't say I knew what socialists want, I have only to read some of your tripe to realise that

my tripe...LOL...of course.

Its possible Frank Field has lost his marbles if we are to take tonys selected tweets
as something to go on

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-s-post-brexit-customs-union-would-...

Listen to him in this interview after the speech.

Mentioned not threatening a 'tax haven on the shores of Europe 5 times' (even threw in 'Donald Trump Style') as the reason EU will agree to us influencing trade deals.

Never answered any of the questions.

So arrogant it is unbelievable.

He sound like he thinks he is above everyone else.

No understanding the EU could say 'no'. He has no plan b.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43189878

crippen thats very silly..the eu is the root to all our problems? thats just over the top..

Corbyn is a strange one.

He is against free markets but wants free markets with the whole of the EU.

He is worried about 65 million refugees but want to impose protectionist tariffs on countries the refuges come from.

im gutted ...but one things for sure, labour will NOT win the next election with this policy, the torys have a open goal to kick at..brexit is not the be all of everything..but i couldnt vote for this and i wont vote nto..i wouldnt vote for anyone but labour..but i carnt do anymore than ive done..if we have lost the argument inside the party so be it....but the pain that the tories will inflict on our country is on the remainers inside labour....corbyn is lost imo..i dont see it as frank field does...labour leave are attacking corbyn and rightly so...

tony,

Would you really rather the Tories won than Corbyn just over the Customs Union and his apparent wish to keep the borders open?

All his other stuff like nationalising water, dealing with the rich, ending uni fees, national investment bank, £10 an hour min wage, moving to high skill high tech economy etc.

im a democrat..when this is settled i will always want labour..as you have posted those policys are great imo..i just belive corbyn will not be pm because of this policy..we never win the south..but we are turning our backs on working class communitys in the north our heartlands..to keep london happy..this is whats at the core...i know it..and so do any other labour voters who are honest...london is the heartbeat of the economy..the torys have made parts of the north a wasteland...its why some left to become mayors in northern citys when corbyn became leader..they want to change it..it will take years..we carnt get the money to electrify the railway up here ffs..yet london gets billons for crossrail....

Can they not just say we have left the EU. We are out the single market. Can do the state aid we want. We can choose our own immigration policy.

Will voters really be bothered about the CU if they are told it will protect jobs? Will they know they could get 20% cheaper food and so on? Corbyn said today chlorinated chicken as a reason to stay in the CU.

Pro-European Tories play down prospect of voting with Corbyn to defeat government on custom union
Jeremy Corbyn’s speech is significant because is raises the possibility of Labour and the other opposition parties lining up with Tory rebels to defeat the government. At the end of last week the Conservative pro-European Anna Soubry tabled a new version of her amendment to the trade bill, new clause 5 (NC5), designed to maximise support for this cause. Eight Tory MPs have signed it. Given that the Tory/DUP working majority is generally put at 13, that is enough to engineer a defeat.

But Corbyn may have moved too soon. The government has signalled it will postpone the vote until after Easter, and this afternoon two of the Tories who signed the Soubry amendment played down suggestions they will actually vote for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/feb/26/brexit-tories-lash-out-at-corbyn-as-he-backs-staying-in-customs-union-with-eu-politics-live

brexit will be done by next election

Both parties currently at 2.02 to win the most seats.

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyns-customs-union-plan-impossible-to-d...

decent lay, if you get matched, 2.02 both sides

"If we could get this sort of agreement there would have been no referendum, no argy-bargy that's going on. But it' a brilliant piece of PR."

he wants free movement of labour to continue, that is his goal


My guess is that Corbyn isn't actually that worried whether these visitors will do much in the way of work. As long as they can be vibrant, peace-loving, culturally-enriching and the antithesis of Traditional Britain, they will be voting Labour.

I wouldn't say it is a masterstroke because I am not sure he knows what he is doing.

Why leave the EU and still be in the Customs Union with no say?!

I am glad Labour has moved it's position however as it may cause an almighty problem in Parliament. Parliament should be Sovereign so the remoaners should be pleased with this as there is no need for a referendum. I don't think the Government will be able to last the full term

If you want to avoid or negate a Brexit I would have thought that Parliamentary chaos is your best bet.

I think the debate has got better since the vote and we are all realising there are big problems that need to ne addressed. We don't know how to do that but need to find a way.

I do think the Country wants Parliament to become Sovereign, wants to control it's borders and wants to be able to do trade deals with anybody its wants and hopefully have more free trade. I don't think we hate Europe and Europeans. We want to trade with them.

I don't think the Labour Party knows what it wants but then neither does the Conservative Party. All in all I think it makes for interesting Politics and I hope the debate gets better rather there will be £350 Million a week available for the NHS or whatever!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/26/jeremy-corbyn-customs-union...

Fair enough but what is Europe's position?

First there are the people who want to continue as normal with business.

The Eurocrats however have to deal with the threat of the break up of the EU if the UK is successful.

It is not just us that are walking the tightrope.

If you can keep your head while others around you are losing theirs...then I don't think you understand the seriousness of the situation Gungadin!

Brexit is a double edged sword that has consequences for all of Europe. We are not the only ones facing problems

Corbyn blinked first.

Let hear what May has to say about her three baskets in the next week.

parliment is sovereign..but remember the reason we had the referendum is parliment passed it to the people to decide???we have decided but mps betrayed us..from both parties ..but i have to say the main ones are labour ...im disgusted....but whats done is done.

the torys have made parts of the north a wasteland.

tony,you might also say the Labour councils that run the north have made the north a wasteland,our local councils that correspond to long term tenure have usually run down the towns and cities through total ineptitude and internal corruption of prejudice if not financial gains. Their alibi has always been the nasty tories are to blame,perhaps people will be waking up to that ?

the councils underfunded by tory governments

What rubbish you speak tree blaming Labour Councils all the time , the blame lies at this evil government who have withheld money from councils . and have implemented massive cuts to social care and other services

Councils are always crying out for more money.
The more they get the more they pay themselves, and the more they can waste.
While they won't even look after the homeless living on the streets.
They can freeze to death for all they care as they drink tea and coffee in their heated offices.

Crippen as usual ignoring the reality and the facts to trumpet his tory bias

I think freezing to death on the streets is as real as you can get anxious.

To be quite honest, you don't appear to give a toss about the homeless.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/council-budget-cuts-what-liverpool-12613097

you carnt hide facts and numbers..some may not like the truth because it hurts..torys have laid waste to many citys in the north,,my city pays a heavy price more than others because the torys hate us..we have not elected a tory in 1964...

www.independent.co.uk/voices/council-tax-rise-deficit-public-services-liverp...

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-wont-receive-p...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/the-northerner/2014/jul/15/northern-poor-areas-hit-hardest-by-council-cuts

i would appricate treetop and crippen reading the artcles before passing comment ..

It is quite interesting when you look at the numbers Tony.

The top ten per head are in London.

The top ten councils in revenue spending power per head are:



Hackney                                   £1,991.64

Tower Hamlets                         £1,889.64

Islington                                    £1,880.73

Newham                                   £1,820.96

Camden                                   £1,768.02

Southwark                                £1,707.63

Lambeth                                   £1,694.11

Haringey                                   £1,685.66

Hammersmith & Fulham           £1,667.46

Kensington & Chelsea              £1,641.33

Are they mainly Labour or Tory Councils.


The bottom ten councils are:



Windsor & Maidenhead             £715.06

York                                           £733.82

Hinckley and Bosworth             £739.44

Wokingham                               £742.06

Charnwood                                £742.72

Blaby                                         £742.85

Harborough                               £758.31

Basingstoke and Deane            £761.03

Oadby and Wigston                   £766.79

North West Leicestershire         £767.21

Again we need to do some research to see who runs those.

The state of northern councils run down by Labour have not changed materially since we changed governments, they have been poorly run during Labour tenure too despite a spell when Brown threw money at his own support when he was trying to get Blair out of number 10.I was campaigning for the SDP and Lib Dems while my local councils were,and still are,local fiefdoms of cronies and ineptitude. Austerity is merely the latest excuse.Rotherham and other areas of abuse all happened under Labour governments but were ignored due to useless councils.

Sefton Council are not short of money
.
http://www.costar.co.uk/en/assets/news/2017/May/Sefton-Council-buys-Bootle-shopping-centre-for-325m/

In the age of online shopping you would not buy a shopping centre with your own money, but lefties would with £32.5m of someone else's and give it to some capitalists so they can cash out at a profit?
What's worse though is that the council think they can plan an economy better than the market, and that the council are good at making investments.

Really so cuts to social care and local communities are just fantasies are they , pull the other one everybody knows its tory policy that has deliberately targeted the poorest areas , pure evil at work thats all it is

Anxious,

Any comments on the real numbers above.

It is Labour councils that appear to get the most funding.

8 of the top 10 are LABOUR

The top ten councils in revenue spending power per head are:



Hackney                                   £1,991.64 (LAB)

Tower Hamlets                         £1,889.64 (NOC LAB MAYOR)

Islington                                    £1,880.73 (LAB)

Newham                                   £1,820.96 (LAB LAB MAYOR)

Camden                                   £1,768.02 (LAB)

Southwark                                £1,707.63 (LAB)

Lambeth                                   £1,694.11 (LAB)

Haringey                                   £1,685.66 (LAB)

Hammersmith & Fulham           £1,667.46 (LAB)

Kensington & Chelsea              £1,641.33 (CON)

Are they mainly Labour or Tory Councils.


The bottom ten councils are:



Windsor & Maidenhead             £715.06 (CON)

York                                           £733.82 (CON/LIB)

Hinckley and Bosworth             £739.44 (CON)

Wokingham                               £742.06 (CON)

Charnwood                                £742.72 (CON)

Blaby                                         £742.85 (CON)

Harborough                               £758.31 (CON)

Basingstoke and Deane            £761.03 (CON)

Oadby and Wigston                   £766.79 (LID)

North West Leicestershire         £767.21 (CON)

Yes IT and look and see that Most Labour areas are in some of the more densely populated and high inner city conurbations.

Funding is per head so why does 'densely populated' make a difference?

If anything things like collecting rubbish should be cheaper as less distance to pick it all up.

If you look at percentage of foreign born and non-uk nationals you find 37% of people in London fit that criteria.

The country's gone to the dogs.

bongo..the council bought the center because its a big part of the town and the council wants to get buisness involved with regeneration...just because they spend this amount does not mean they have money..if they didnt buy it there was a chance it could be closed..
sefton council have choices because of cuts from central goverment...close sure start..or old age peoples homes..we are one of the poorest councils in the country....the tories as ive posted protect their councils..but its true also tories areas are richer..home counties etc...labour areas are more city..

tony, if it was a viable proposition wouldnt a company have purchased it?

Are the cuts in actual numbers the biggest because the largest amounts spent per person are in Labour councils. Are they the largest cuts in percentage terms? Have the amounts given to Labour councils per person become less than payments to Tory ones?

tony,this strategy was followed by Sunderland council who have managed to gain control over a derelict brewery site (Vaux) and left a major site in the Sunderland centre a wasteland after 15 years of legal wrangling and planning ineptitude.We now have one lone building and possibly a car park on what should have been yielding business rates and rents from regeneration for more than a decade.Useless is just one of the printable words used frequently in the local paper to describe the Labour council and anxious seeks to defend that shower of tripe.Our city centre is like a 3rd world theme park from the eastern bloc that Corbyn wants to emulate.

In my experience Labour controlled councils are completely incompetent.

Is this also a Corbyn masterstroke please?

Labour voters/supporters - do you think this is a sensible and justifiable appointment? Wasn't there a single better alternative candidate amongst the 65 million population here? 

The person concerned has already once been sacked in a blaze of publicity for making truly disgraceful racist remarks about white people. That employment history must have been known to Labour, so this appointment can only be interpreted as a quite deliberate and massive 'two fingers' to white people everywhere.
 

.
https://order-order.com/2018/02/27/compare-contrast-bbc-website-toby-young-labours-new-race-row-hire/

Ffs Tony, should have been able to buy the whole of Bootle for that

alun, I think I heard the end of Andrew Neil mentioning that on Daily Politics

''Contrast that with Munroe Bergdorf, who Labour have appointed as an actual shadow cabinet adviser despite the fact she was fired just last year by L’Oreal over a race row. Bergdorf, a transgender model, has to resign in disgrace after claiming that “all white people” are racist. The same Labour faux outrage brigade who got Toby Young fired are obviously silent on this appointment and Corbyn and Dawn Butler are standing by her. The BBC write up buries the race row issue and the story doesn’t feature anywhere on the homepage.''

Guido.

Right wing bar room bores out in force again.

tony - the time for Sefton council to buy a shopping centre is when the price is £1. Naturally there will be running costs on top, and some regeneration to do. You don't buy at the top of the market.
Hartlepool bought a shed for £1.5m which is now worth nothing to them, Warrington recently bought an Enterprise Park using an offshore vehicle to avoid stamp duty, and as pointed out by the excellent treetop Sunderland bought the 26 acre site of a former brewery from Tesco for £22m ( 850k an acre! you can buy agricultural land when it comes to the market for 10-20k an acre a few miles away ). Councils are not property developers - they generally get mugged when they try to be some kind of friendly venture capitalists - their main expertise is adult social care and children's services. By all means grant the permits to make land available for enterprise, parks and housing, but they should not be running businesses themselves.

Jeremys spiv fanboy on with his usual insults, don't think he knows any better.

Yes akabula.
And he wonders why he keeps getting banned and having stuff removed, when he only comes on here to throw insults at regular posters.

Wish Corbyn would of stuck to his anti euro views the same way he still sticks to his anti nuke beliefs

He will ditch that as well dan if it means he has a chance to get into Downing Street. The Labour party should be renamed Shameless after Corbyns somersault about the EU.