Potlis has already destroyed your original point. Once again you stand humiliated.

You then made a point about 'EU standards' and I simply educated you that they are next to worthless yet cost taxpayers many millions for the department. A new leaner UK will address this. Once again you stand humiliated.

I made another point vis-a-vis more EU wastage, more fraud, the books never been signed off and a whistler blower been sacked. You failed to address this. Once again you stand humiliated.


The point is that when presented with facts you run away, you divert and retreat to hyperbole. Your position is so weak that it will not withstand debate which is what causes your retreat to the aforementioned. Once again you stand humiliated - an almost constant state of being now for you and your wrong side of history remainiac gang of desperadoes.

Taxi for unitedbiscuits.

Crash Brexit will hurt the Uk more than any other country - I don't have to back up that statement, Burt, Germany is telling you the same. My wish is that the 29% population who voted for iLeave could bear the damage alone.
The only thing that worries me is people assuming I'm somehow on your side. As long as people don't mistake me for one of you, I'm happy. You make me laugh with your EUSSR rubbish, your "tyranny" talk, and you accuse Remainers of hyperbole." The wrong side of history" - nobody wants to join the side of Brexit. Not the Catalans, Not the Irish. Brexit is the most backward facing mess a country could inflict on itself. You even have, in Jacob Rees Mogg, a Minister For The Nineteenth Century.

How do you know what the Catalans want? Have you been speaking with them? Their democratically elected leader will soon be extradited via a EU arrest warrant and imprisoned for wanting self determination. Do you think the Catalans want that? The EU stands shoulder to shoulder with Madrid, do you think they like that?

And at the risk of seeming pedantic he is sometimes dubbed the  Honourable Member for the 18th century. Not 19th as you say.

I know Biscuitbrain has had some stinkers before but this has to be his worst thread by far.

Still no answers.

Which questions? Canada? We may get a deal like Canada's in 2024. Is that good? I would say not. Signing off the books? I don't lose any sleep over that. The EU have their heart in the right place. Kinnock junior? So what.

I'm not saying I know what the Catalans want, Chippie; what they don't want is to join the Brexit club of one and leave the EU.

Whilst I wouldn't want to butt in on your other conversation how can you possibly say you don't lose sleep over it? So non accountability is for you? That is clearly the only logical inference to take from what you have just said. It was Kinnock senior by the way who got rid of the whistle blower, albeit a long time ago. You seem to be saying that potential mass fraud is ok because these people are on your side of the fence. Can you not see how repellent that position is to the majority?

Brexiteers blithely promote the idea of no deal as a viable option. But the people pushing for it are, by and large, the best protected from its consequences. I cite Redwood advising his clients to switch out of the UK. Some can make provision for the turbulence - "uncertainty is great" being a mantra inside some hedge funds - ordinary folk cannot.

Agreeable to your Catalan suggestion, Chippie. I have no axe to grind there.

Granted Chippie - I may have used a little poetic licence but, as I say, the only thing that keeps me awake at night is the idea of people thinking I'm on the Brexit side.

The UK already works as a gateway to tax avoidance that consistently keeps blocking all attempts to change the situation.

Chippie - The double standard is rife, and there is a correlation between tax-avoidance and Brexit. For example, Telegraph readers are saturated with stories of EU profligacy, and it serves the paper's owners very well, because while the focus is on EU accounts or MP's expenses, the spotlight certainly isn't on the "tax haven twins" domiciled in the Channel Islands. One trait of people who get all sanctimonious about wasteful councils or organisations they don't like, is their complete lack of perspective. The Barclay Brothers have an agenda, the same one punted by commentators like Richard Littlejohn and their little foot soldiers on here: focus on public waste, rather than the money they are witholding from the country.

You simply cannot be serious!

there is a correlation between tax-avoidance and Brexit What? This is so nonsensical it beggars belief.

Telegraph readers are saturated with stories of EU profligacy, and it serves the paper's owners very well, because while the focus is on EU accounts or MP's expenses, the spotlight certainly isn't on the "tax haven twins" domiciled in the Channel Islands

Ok, maybe they are, however, EU profligacy is legendary now. And let us not forget they refuse point blank to sign off their books, which, of course, only reinforces this point of view. The EU could end this legend should they ever choose to account for themselves. Their refusal to do so, combined with an avalanche of exposes over the years amounts to a tacit admission of guilt as to why they refuse. Tax havens is a completely separate issue that you choose to conflate. There most certainly is no correlation as you put it. If the WTO made a condition of membership say a minimum corporation tax of 10% for example then most tax dodging we see would end overnight. This is an international issue and has precisely nothing to do with Brexit. For you to assert this conflation is total nonsense.Tax dodging existed long before Brexit and will exist long after it unless the international community acts via the WTO.


One trait of people who get all sanctimonious about wasteful councils or organisations they don't like, is their complete lack of perspective

Believe me, you are the flip side of that coin.

focus on public waste, rather than the money they are witholding from the country.

Believe me, you can focus on this and the tax dodgers should you choose to.

I have to say it's very difficult to maintain a dialogue with you. You constantly divert your point, asserting wild opinions as fact and even delving into conspiracy theory. When I pick you up on points, even highlighting them for you, you simply ignore them and drone on about something else. I will try for one last time.

to the "libertarians" in charge of Brexit.

'Libertarians' are quite clearly not in charge of Brexit, the Government is. To even try and label this present administration as Libertarian would be ludicrous.

The politicians are the billionaires' stooges, Gove is Murdoch's boy

Do you have a shred of evidence to support this? The fact they may have met by the way would not qualify. This is nothing more than a conspiracy theory on steroids.


I would contend that the EU's efforts to curb tax-avoidance are part of the reason why the guiding forces of Brexit wish themselves out of their jurisdiction

Seriously, offer this forum any shred of evidence you have to support that. Anything at all. We await.

Pavlovian slaverings about EU "tyrants" and "not signing off the books" show just how easily they can manipulate a large section of British society.

Yet I commented to you a while ago how repellent the majority feel about such an obvious probable fraud and you simply ignored it. Ignorance is a choice, and if you choose, it is your choice to make, the majority chose another path.

And how about this for a superb bit of hyperbole -  The "Brexit mafia"   Oh dear.

The "Brexit mafia"  Oh dear.
We know who we're talking about - the dark cabal mostly on the backbenches of the Tory side of the House: Redwood, IDS, Lawson, Lamont, Rees-Mogg,
Howard; they have an agenda and they have a shared ideology, which is basically "help yourself." But you're right, Chippie, they are law-makers not law-breakers. I have a description more apt - how did the corrupt element in the Metropolitan Police describe themselves? "A firm within a firm." I think that sums them up to a tee.


'Libertarians' are quite clearly not in charge of Brexit, the Government is. To even try and label this present administration as Libertarian would be ludicrous.
Well, the problem for the PM is that no-one believes in her or knows what she believes herself.The perception - particularly in Europe - is that the May Government is in thrall to the cabal above, and the interests they serve. I didn't coin the phrase "Zombie Government," I wasn't the first to describe the PM as a "dead woman walking," credit George Osborne for that.


The politicians are the billionaires' stooges, Gove is Murdoch's boy
The more unkind observer calls Gove Murdoch's pathic. He was there for the wedding, I don't know if he accompanied the happy couple on their honeymoon.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/18/tories-refuse-to-deny-rupert-murdoch-role-in-michael-goves-cabin


I would contend that the EU's efforts to curb tax-avoidance are part of the reason why the guiding forces of Brexit wish themselves out of their jurisdiction
The ideologists guiding Brexit - Minford, Adam Smith Institute etc - see tax as bad, public spending as wasteful (except for the protection of private wealth). They want a light-tax, wide open for business ecomomy, tough on borders to placate the oiks, but applying a light-touch to the free movement of money. It would be a major stretch to imagine their model of "Global Britain" doubling down on tax-avoidance, with the best will in the world, you don't let the wolves guard the flock.

Pavlovian slaverings about EU "tyrants" and "not signing off the books" show just how easily they can manipulate a large section of British society.
Without singling out any poster, cos there are too many, whenever I see mention of the "EUSSR", "EU tyrants" or "evil empire", I just see an obedient footsoldier of the media forces who have for decades conditioned them to one uncontested message "the EU is bad." They get angry about Brussels because they're told to be angry; and most of them are like me, never been there, no intention of going. They don't, generally, get exercised by tax-avoidance because it doesn't command the same ire in the press. Go to Fleet St with a story about a tax-cheat and they're not really engaged, but if it's a benefit-cheat they're all over it like a Primark suit. The trade-off for honing in on public accountability is less focus on private practise, and that suits the interests of Murdoch, the Barclay Brothers, and the offshore hedge-fund behind Cambridge Analytica. In public life, they sponsor figures whose principles serve to enrich them.


So, that's my point of view. I never intend to ignore anyone but I do have a busy life, Chippie.

So many words - so little said.

The guy is a loon. He wants to go after tax avoiders as we all do but "loses no sleep" over the EUSSR never signing off their books. WALOFB