Corbyn : Fight on or jog on ?

This is the weak point in Corbyn's argument though anxious. He had always been a serial rebel until he became leader. Quite rightly at times of course as over Iraq. However if I had a vote I would go for him rather than Smith,whom I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw him. There just seems to be nobody who can unite the party. If Corbyn wins again then we will probably see those who voted against him,not just the MPs,split the party. This time it will be much more damaging than the Gang of Four. The Tories are not a united party either of course but they somehow manage to stick together whatever their differences ( since 1846 anyway ).

From what ive seen Smith looks like he would be capable of being a decent leader that could win back lots of voters for labour and stand a favourites chance in 2020.

A split is what the left needs and a new party that can unite all the disillusioned Libs with all the mainstream Labour voters.

Listen if Owen Smith w ins the leadership election i will say fair play lets get oon with it , why can the mps not do the same it sounds like they will only take part if they get the right result how democratic is that

Salmon yes i agree it would be disatrous a split , this would only benefit the tories because the anti -tory  vote would then be split

Like it was in the 80s

smith is backed by a chemical company through Save Labour
hardly a lefty  eh?

anyway Labour will probably never get in power as long as the same boundary and voting set up continues unless they linked up with the SNP.

Of course things change but it wouldn't matter if the party was led by May they still wouldn't get in. The system is so skewed towards toryism.

Can anybody on here explain to the difference between New Labour and the Conservative Party ?

How can people who have openly said he isnt up to the job then turn around and support him and try convincing the Public he is a credible PM.

What has he done in this last year anyway?  He is still obessesed with his usual protest issues but what progress has he made with any serious policies?

What is his economic plan other than taxing more and printing magic money from thin air?

The difference Anxious can be seen in our Schools ,Hospitals, all upgraded from slum conditions  ,minimum wage !
Any more ?

The difference between New Labour and Labour now! Easy one!
New Labour Government!
Corrbyns Labour extinction!

tonks i have no problem with owen smith if he wins fair enough , but why will the 172 mps npt abide by the result ?

Tonks why did Blair abandon clause 4

Owen Smith has promised to bring it back

"new" Labour introduced tax credits that is hardly the mark of a conservative is it anx?

The post-war Conservative Party was actually quite progressive BB. Then you know who came along.

Jul 21, 2016 -- 1:47PM, anxious wrote:

Can anybody on here explain to the difference between New Labour and the Conservative Party ?

One looks red and the other looks blue.

Anxious,

yes, I have voted several times and always agin the government of the time, and nine times out of ten for no-hopers.
Waste of time , really.
In Australia, voting was compulsory, but still a waste of time for me.

Going out rioting was an even worse waste of everything.

So Sean have you ever voted for the futile- reformists the British Labour Party

Corbyn came under fire again for his performance at PM's Questions yesterday.

Yet as Diane Abbott said on the radio this morning.

When Theresa May stood up to speak she was met with cheers.

When Corbyn stood up to speak he was met with silence from his own MPs.

It must be pretty difficult speaking in a chamber like the House, without any support from your own side, and all those in front of you jeering every word you utter.
This set of Labour MPs are a disgrace to the name of their party.

Imagine that lot running the country.

Give over Cripps why would you applaud a loser ,non of us intentionally back losers do we ?

Abbott used to do other things for Jeremy when he stood up![:makes me feel ill just thinking about it !

corbyn soon to trash chemical smith  the representative of big business and very left wing - cough cough!!!

makes me feel ill just thinking about it

Why's that Tonks, are you a brown hatter?

If you haven't worked out Corbyn staying on will kill Labour it's time to give up tbh.

My posts even removed from this daft thread!

Note the presence of a regular anti-corbyn dude; his posts remain.

Note the presence of a regular anti-corbyn dude; his posts remain

Well no one can say that I'm anti - Corbyn, so sean has swerved a bit there.

So until he makes up his mind who it is that he thinks is removing his trash, I refuse to post to post again on this thread.

Failing to go to post to post, eh, doc?

the rebels are calling for Corbyn to feck off because he does not have leadership skills ...

WALOFS ...thats how the labour party got into the mess they are in ,Corbyn is not the worst candidate ,the whipper snapper and his mutineers need put down imo

Corbyn could do a job ,its leading the country that is the job not having the spin skills of a double glazing snake ,AKA blair ,talking with his hands whilst plastered with make up and surrounded by creepy crawlies and bawbags .

Notable though that the media seem much more sympathetic to Owen Smith ( a snake oil salesman if ever there was one ) despite dear Laura being on holiday.

hey Sean we know you think the Labour Party are futile- reformists but have you ever voted for them, and what about the Socialist workers party, International Marxist federation , Millitant tendency have you ever dabbled with these lads and lasses.

Agree with breadnbutter.

What is meant by leadership skills anyway? Smart jibes that bring cheers from your own supporters at PM's Questions?

Get the right policies in place and be prepared to drop people who keep rocking the boat, and the leadership skills will look after themselves. 

My only criticism of Corbyn regarding his leadership is when they first voted on Trident.

I wrote then he should sack Benn who had spoken in Parliament against him. He'll have sack him eventually so why delay it?
That's how it turned out.

have you ever dabbled with these lads and lasses.

anxious, ever heard of the flower people?

I believe sean was one of them.

The Mamas and the Papas maybe

Obviously some posts removed again this morning, so cannot make head nor tail of the thread. Luckily, as 'tis only about a trivial matter, this is not the end of the world.

--

angst:

All those ye list are good for nothing; they get in the way of True Socialism - which is still seemingly light years away.
Only thing we learnt from one particular organisation ( not listed)
was techniques for fighting the police and how to kill a man with a fkn newspaper!

Wtf good was that?

Violence is never the answer; though humanely taking out may well be required in specific situations. Certainly, things like trident are good for nothing, but do make tory manufacturers quite a lot richer.

Yes, I been to Haight/Ashbury, but decades after Hendrix etc.

The M &Ps are good, but here's an old favourite of mine from Peter, Paul, & Mary:

( I got it lined up for my funeral)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADN1lLEp3H0


Hope it opens for ye! Enjoy!

Nah sean, you want a bit of the diddly-dee to liven 'em for the wake.

There you go. The Dubliners Seven Drunken Nights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlKG79hC2Wo

The irony about Corbyn is that he makes such a big deal about representing the rank and file views of the Labour party but appears to be so unconcerned about representing the general public electorate at large.Fighting to keep his position of leader contradicts with his lack of appeal to the electorate and eventual ruin of the Labour party effectiveness outside the minds of a momentum groupset.

Should he then, change his values and ethics to be popular with the electorate ? Cameron made countless policy announcements only to U turn because they were unpopular. He was typical of the career politician, more concerned with office than right. If the electorate want lies and deception in place of conviction of ethics , they are going the right way about it.

My reply to TT CENSORED yet again!

sean,
Hasn't Betfair ever warned you about using obscene language on here?

Which makes me think you're having the stuff removed yourself.

Because if someone was regularly complaining about your filthy language, then surely Betfair would have at least warned you about it by now?

Certainly not me sean,I am usually keen to note your insight,not always same as mine but there you go.

I can see your viewpoint enpassant but ultimately the leader has to appeal to a majority of the electorate not just his own followers,that alone tells me he should be prepared to stand aside in the interests of the Labour party.

I'm surprised Corbyn has held on this long, he's clearly finished and by all accounts doesn't want the job anymore. There's a good chance he will win a renewed mandate and then split the party I would have thought. The Labour Party simply can't continue in this current state.

At least we've got rid of that honourable, principled stuff that was floating around when he was elected. One of the dirtiest, most unprincipled people in politics and by God has it saved his skin on numerous occasions. You have to admire that even if it is politically suicidal for the Labour party.

Off topic,

doc, how do these here warnings ye chat about arrive?
As far as I'm aware, I've had no warning ever.

If 'tis something to do with those bubble things, I never open them, so may be oblivious to whatever's in them.
That doesn't sound very professional, so I'll have to conclude I've had no warnings.

As for nu-labor, I think they miht as well pack up:

they'll split , but will remmain a weak and ineffectual, useless, good for nothing bunch of reformist losers who will NEVER hold power and couldn't run a penny-bun stall.

In this, they are exactly like nige the QUITTER.

they might as well pack up ....

The tactics of the NEC/PLP with the backing of Fhitzer (40 k to Saving Labour for Chemical Owen)  and Portland Communications. Working away with their black arts with a direct line to the media.

A couple of friends have repeated stuff they've picked up on television and in the newspapers about the threats and intimidation which is being connected to Corbyn. I can understand why because that's how it's being reported, but below is a quick run through of the examples I'm aware of -

Luciana Berger the Liverpool MP received death threats. In the first instance they were traced to a neo Nazi called Garron Helm and he was jailed for four months. In the second instance to someone called Joshua Bonehill-Paine who is a member of UKIP and has been arrested.

Angela Eagle MP had to cancel a meeting in Luton because of threats to the hotel where it was to take place. This is a complete fabrication.There were no threats. The hotel cancelled the meeting because they hadn't been told what the meeting was about and didn't want to be associated with politics.

Stella Creasy MP had demonstrators outside her home. This is a complete fabrication. The Sun ran the story and has since apologised for making it up. Other papers reported the demonstrators were violent and abusive and outside her Constituency office. It wasn't violent or abusive. It was peaceful opposition to Stella voting to bomb Syria. The demonstrators were polite and mostly members of her own CLP. Stella Creasy later said no one was threatened or abused.

Harriet Harman MP reported homophobic abuse directed personally at Angela Eagle at a CLP meeting in the north west, I think in Barrow. This is a complete fabricatioon. Angela Eagle wasn't at the meeting (neither was Harriet) and there was no abuse, homophobic or otherwise.

Johanna Baxter, a right wing member of the NEC, reported abuse aimed at her before the ballot vote, particularly abuse by a well known journalist. The journalist was Owen Jones, the Guardian columnist, who released the text of the message he had sent to Johanna which is not at all abusive and simply begs her to reconsider her opposition to having Corbyn on the ballot. Johanna has not provided details of other abuse.

Angela Eagle and the brick through the window. This is a strange one. Firstly, the brick wasn't through her Constituency office window. It was through a window at the side of the block going up a stairway shared by five other businesses, not identified as Labour offices or premises, and previously vandalised, probably by kids. It's impossible to know who broke the window or why, but there is nothing to support the allegation that it was done by Corbyn supporters, or even politically motivated. There was no accompanying note or threat. Or brick, apparently.

Brighton and Hove CLP were suspended after abuse and intimidation was reported at the AGM when officers were being elected. No abuse or intimidation was reported or cited by anyone at the meeting, and descriptions from non-partisan members say the meeting was good-natured, friendly, and properly conducted. The Right, who had previously controlled the CLP, were however defeated in the various ballots. Abuse and intimidation was then reported, without details or examples, and the CLP suspended.

These are all the specific things I can find and they're all being lumped together (by Eagle supporters in particular) and the media, as examples of bully boy tactics by the Left. They're pretty much bollocks. Either invented, or the work of far Right

Up the workers!!

The hard left are fighting for the adminstration machine that supports Labour.The right wing of the party know they will never appeal to the activist wing but do understand the need for a level of pragmatism to gain election and fear the loss of any future role and the party machine apparatus. Since that is probably paid for by the subscriptions of union members the bulk of the membership deserve what they have voted for,permanent obscurity. The public will move on to UKIP or Lib Dems or some form of SDP renewal. The union leadership have killed off any chance of electoral success for two decades.

what is point of corbyn even winning ? presumably the 170 who opposed him will set up a new party and they will be deemed the official opposition. corbyn's rabble will be the 4th biggest party behind even the SNP

mafeking: they would have to resign and fight by-elections under some guise. Then we would really see the lay of the land and all the media push to tell us Corbyn is not popular to the electorate is true or pure propaganda.

Jul 26, 2016 -- 12:35PM, enpassant wrote:

mafeking: they would have to resign and fight by-elections under some guise. Then we would really see the lay of the land and all the media push to tell us Corbyn is not popular to the electorate is true or pure propaganda.

No they wouldn't. MP's are elected until the dissolution of Parliament a defection does not need a by-election.

She may well call a GE in Spring.

She can't do that.

Oh yes she can, doc.

Get wised up to your own side, bruv.

Andf thanks for replying to my CENSORED POST!

Same ol', same old pattern.

Post gone; doc's there.

Dr erdogan krappen!

Oh yes she can, doc.

Wrong again sean - she would have to put it to Parliament.

That's a lot of trouble to go to sean - having your own posts removed just so that you can accuse someone of deleting them.

I'd mention that to your doctor next time you see him.
He might give you something for that.

This isn't just about Corbyn and his suitability.
The media, mostly owned by non doms and ex pats, want two parties who toe their line, so they can spout about "democracy" to the sheep.

Corbyn like Miliband before him, offers a choice against two neo-liberal corporatist parties. People who might tackle tax abuse instead of uttering platitudes; who might suggest that our enormous debt is not due to the disabled, immigrants, and working and middle class, who might not be at the beck and call of lobbyists.

Once Blair backed Owen Smith, and Smith told us Blair was a Socialist you know what the choice you have.

This is correct mister Jeremy is the only one offering an true alternative here , his failing is that he is not a tv star and does not fit into the so- called acceptable level of what the hostile tory media demand which is a very small difference to the tories.

Jeremy will achieve nothing.

Pathetic man who encourages a followings from the world owes me a living crowd

He can't be much worse than blair/brown, can yem shaKY?

Btw, are ye still in the benefits office?

Pension must be good by now.

Never been not a giro fusilier myself

anxious-corbyn has been an idiot all his life, and learned nothing. he has been a supporter of the ussr, the gdr, cuba, hezbollah, hamas, the ira, the chinese communist party,  plo, chavez, and then maduro in venezuela, and every other crackpot murderous left-wing regime of the last 50 years. leaving aside his domestic policies, this has to mark him down as a prize fool, and defender of the indefensible.

The man is a disgrace to Britain and democracy

Thats why he won nearly 60 per cent in a democratic election of the Labour membership last year about 200, 000 votes i think

Your talking absolute drivel sheikh

251 , 517 votes

Let's hope the devotees vote the reptile in again more good news

Chosen violence over democracy. Should never be in parliament.

correct. he won 60% of the votes cast by other fools. the rump of the labour party has always harboured these idiots, but now one of their own has secured the glittering prize, soon to be a poisoned chalice. the same hate-filled d1ckheads that formed militant in the 80s form momentum now. i know several of them. one very prominent one comes into my battlecruiser. she means well, but is crackers. the others are consumed by misplaced loathing and resentment, and will have no disagreement.

In September when he wins again what will the response be by the Labour mps a sizeable chunk of them never wanted him anyway, they will have to accept the Democratic vote or will they only take part if their team wins, thats not democracy surely ?

The party will split because some MPs see him as toxic and want nowt to do with him.

At least in a general election you would not have the two wings of the Conservative party standing , one is enough to stomach for most people

So then why are they waiting for the result then akabula , these so called democrats.

that depends on whether you view mps as reprensatives or delegates.

corbyn bangs on about the importance of a democratic vote, yet has been a leading light in the cuba solidarity movement(he chaired a meeting of it only 2 days ago), despite the fact that cuba is a police state that has never held any election, and imprisons political prisoners who ask for them. go figure, as they say.

So then why are they waiting for the result then akabula , these so called democrats.

Because they know the damage that a split will cause. They'd rather keep the party intact but not under someone like Corbyn.

But Jeremy is entitled to stand he has been a Labour mp for over 30 years if he wins twice what on earth can people say , how many times does he need to win, if Owen Smith wins the left have already said they would abide by the result and unite the party

Some things are deemed a step too far and this is one of them as far as some Labour MPs are concerned.
I wouldn't serve under him and would have resigned immediately.

Dear me what an attitude they are behaving like spoilt children running off if they cannot get their favourite ice cream

'jeremy has been a labour mp for thirty years'. thats why he is a fool. he has never had to make his way, go to interviews, earn a few quid, re-locate, take a pay cut, get sacked, been assessed, and downgraded for poor performance, or submit to the trials that every working person in the yuk has to during the course of their mostly wretched lives.

he has no clue, and formulates policy in the abstract. real life is a mystery to him. i dont think he is anything other than misguided, inexperienced, and not very clever(his poshness would support this). he has aligned himself to a belief, and lenin-like, he will stick to it.

jmk said; 'when the facts change, i will change my mind'. corbyn wont. hes been so convinced for so long that he cant, either because he cant face the truth of his own stupidity, or he is in denial. i will grant him the stupid defence.

I'm sure that there are other candidates they wouldn't like but would rally to the cause and show support but as I said Corbyn is a step too far.
Been a friend of too many enemies of the UK to be trusted and therefore unelectable. Better sorted now.

Jul 27, 2016 -- 10:38PM, grappler wrote:

correct. he won 60% of the votes cast by other fools. the rump of the labour party has always harboured these idiots, but now one of their own has secured the glittering prize, soon to be a poisoned chalice. the same hate-filled d1ckheads that formed militant in the 80s form momentum now. i know several of them. one very prominent one comes into my battlecruiser. she means well, but is crackers. the others are consumed by misplaced loathing and resentment, and will have no disagreement.

Anyone who has had anything to do with the Labour Party since the 1980s will accept this analysis.

The purists leading the naïve. The purists will think it's a good day's work done (ironic as they've probably never really worked a day in their lives)that the party has now only real socialists. That it will only have 180 seats matters not a jot.

If I was a member I'd be up for a split, best to divorce now than watch it fester for a few more years to come, and waste those years as well.

Broad range of anti tory parties and interests fighting for PR then?

Oh and get yourself an immigration policy and avoid the Owen Joneses of this world bleating on about how they need to educate the great unwashed.

Newsnight last night. Owen Smith's campaign manager when challenged by Kirsty Wark just wouldn't admit or accept that Labour's historical core support, the white working class, see this as a bit of a major point these days, and have probably have for decades increasingly. The Labour party itself has just not listened, and they are aren't listening still.

Too scared to be identified as a racist I guess. And I keep hearing that we are mature enough to have this debate?

er help me here  - if  rich man gets the ballot paper overturned there won't be a vote for the leadership and you get chemical smith as an unelected leader - unlike corbyn who WAS elected

Jul 28, 2016 -- 6:18PM, mobo wrote:

er help me here

As far as I'm aware if the courts overturn the NEC decision we go back to the nominations stage and the candidates go back to trying to win over MP's.

Billy your still gutted over missing the 80-1 on Jeremiah last year

Billy summer 2015 - Corbyn a definite lay a gift -

Good old jezza

Jul 28, 2016 -- 6:59PM, anxious wrote:

Billy summer 2015 - Corbyn a definite lay a gift -

It was. Although you won't understand that.

"Peter Taaffe, the veteran leader of Militant – the hard-left group pushed out of Labour in the 1980s and now renamed the Socialist party – expects to be readmitted to Labour if Jeremy Corbyn wins September’s leadership election.

Taaffe, who was a founding editor of the Militant newspaper and has remained active throughout the movement’s existence, said he had sounded out Corbyn indirectly, including through Mark Serwotka, the leader of the PCS union, about the possibility of reversing Neil Kinnock’s ban on Militant."
.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/10/leader-expelled-leftwing-group-militant-peter-taaffe-readmission-labour-corbyn

and some people think this mob will get elected in 2020

forgot to mention that Taaffe's Socialist Party also organised last week's protests with the Black Lives Matter mob

Whats the matter burton theres nothing wrong with Militant they are good working class socialists

Your the extremists Burton you and your redneck friends.

bringing violence to the streets is hardly good, well not in my world anyway.

you think Militant are good yet UKIP is extreme, it shows you how addled the bit of brain you have is.

Don't despair Burton Donny and the gun merchants will sort it for you ilk

go and ask the mods if you can change your username to nappy

I think you and your buddies are more used to chatting to the mods

you think whatever you want nappy I'm really not bothered, I'll soon be off to lovely fresh air and a new life with my family while you are stuck in your Manc slum delivering newspapers set your clock and don't be late in the morning.

I don't know whats the matter with you lately Burton you've become very bitter and twisted its nothing to do with your monthly cycle is it