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11 Jul 15 22:27
Date Joined: 26 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 30,757 | Blogger: CJ70's blog
Pretty sure BBC3 could commission this..

Current plans include kicking Greece out for 5 years. Germany confiscating Greek assets and selling them on ebay to the highest bidder.

Tsirpas looks likely to fall on his sword after bringing his country to disaster in under six months. Just a week ago he had a popular mandate and now he's having to resign as a precursor for ever more austerity and a 3rd bailout after begging to say in the Euro.

Who says politics isn't fun?
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Report CJ70 July 11, 2015 11:08 PM BST
No deal tonight. Onwards until tomorrow.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2015 12:14 AM BST
The mug threw his cards in on Monday and has nothing to play with. They can choose how to deal with him and may decide to make an example of him.
Report subversion July 12, 2015 2:08 AM BST
Politically, its looking easier and easier to just cut Greece loose.

Economically, they need debt relief, no question. But the moral hazard of bailout them out and effectively rewarding them for fiscal indiscipline looks more and more painful for Northern European politicians.

And the idea that Spain or Italy could get ideas about bailouts of their own is the disaster scenario. Because the Euro can survive a Grexit... but no way could they survive these issues spreading to Spain or Italy. Not a chance.

The economics are pretty simple. The politics most definitely are not.
Report CJ70 July 12, 2015 12:54 PM BST
Looks like EU has to use the 85% if Greece is going to get another bailout.

Apparently European finance ministers don't trust Tsirpas to keep his promises. Well there's a turn up for the books.
Report themover July 13, 2015 3:24 AM BST
It's been a good laugh for the politicians...they get a nice few days in various cities across Europe in a top hotel, all expenses paid (courtesy of EU tax payers) before lending some more money to a country that has a zero credit rating. #niceworkifyoucangetit
Report CJ70 July 13, 2015 10:54 AM BST
We've got a deal.

If Greeks vote this through parliament I'd be surprised. They can't realistically take the money and run either as assets will be held abroad because nobody trusts Tsirpas.

So Greece, your move..
Report pawras July 13, 2015 11:08 AM BST
the soap opera ain't over that's for sure
Report mobo July 13, 2015 11:58 AM BST
I need help understanding this.

The last big bailout of 100 billion, only 1.5 bill got into the greek economy the rest went to the banks etc.

Hollande just said 35 bill of this new 50 bill bailout would go to greek economy.  But no it won't. Economist on sky said 2.5 bill will go to greek economy.

Apart from all this they have sold 50 billion of greece to their creditors with 'OVERSEERS' from the fourth reich in the country - has this happened before?  ha ha

How is any of this going to help greece and is it just a big boot of the can down the road again!!!

A sad day. But they are desperate to keep greece in!!!!
Report CJ70 July 13, 2015 12:04 PM BST
The problem is Tsirpas isn't trusted to make any reforms. Quite sensibly.

So the Germans not particularly bothered if he wants in or not have put up punitive terms and he's had to sign them to stay in. How desperate are Greece to keep the party going? If Syriza have any backbone this won't pass parliament. Your guess is as good as mine to whether it will or not.

The only thing we know for sure is that Tsirpas is an ex-statesman. He simply cannot come back from this humiliation of his own making.
Report mobo July 13, 2015 12:07 PM BST
I see it as banks lending moneyto pay back their own loans.
Report themover July 13, 2015 12:18 PM BST
Greece voted no in the referendum, so the PM trips off to Vienna to negotiate the next bail-out and austerity measures...democracy in Greece well and truly fooked
Report metro john July 13, 2015 12:23 PM BST
mobo - you and me.Wink
Report metro john July 13, 2015 12:26 PM BST
The mover - Greece willing participants in a mass propaganda, the message is do as we say or else, the prudent bankers and debt ridden west diverting attention from their own reality(they're fooked)
Report themover July 13, 2015 12:29 PM BST
"I call on you to say a big 'no' to ultimatums, 'no' to blackmail," he cried. "Turn your back on those who would terrorise you."

Alexis Tsipras
Report mobo July 13, 2015 12:34 PM BST
I only see this as helping the banks, the lenders and nothing to help greece. After a conversation with a friend, though, he said that they are trying to help greek GDP to pay back loans - but this is a massive amount to pay back is it not?
Report CJ70 July 13, 2015 12:41 PM BST
Greece will never pay back the loans. All this new bailout does is kick the can down the road for a bit.
Report themover July 13, 2015 12:43 PM BST
Tsirpas will need the support of the opposition to get it through parliament, having sold the Greek people a pup and set them back for at least another generation
Report metro john July 13, 2015 12:45 PM BST
Another example of the Leaders being owned by their masters in my opinion.You could not make it up.
Report metro john July 13, 2015 12:47 PM BST
On the other hand, what can people do? what would be the actions that need taking? this is a difficult subject.Perhaps he did just want the people too show resentment(a no vote) knowing the end result and perhaps he feels powerless?
Report themover July 13, 2015 12:50 PM BST
The people voted no to austerity measures, the government is there to represent the people. The EU was always going to bail Greece out, with or without austerity measures (imo) because politically it can't afford not to. Tsipras was taking that stance but bottled it.
Report mobo July 13, 2015 12:51 PM BST
I know I wouldn't put my country up for sale like they have. 
To be simplistic it is like handing over the deeds to your house.

Mind you bits of the uk are owned by the chinese russians et all.
Report themover July 13, 2015 12:52 PM BST
Yes they're handed over the peoples property and then making them pay more
Report pawras July 13, 2015 12:53 PM BST
I’d quite like to see the accounts to see a breakdown of where all the money has come from where it has all gone.

It all seems to stem from Greece being allowed to fudge the book/lie to get into the Euro and those in Brussels turning a blind eye.

Debts they’ve ran up to finance military expenditure, public sector jobs, pensions and other social benefits , they should be held accountable to until they’ve paid it back. Plus they need to accept that things aren’t going back to how they were before.

But debt accumulated to service older debts (like some idiot getting a new credit card to pay off the old one) is the bit that really needs to be pulled apart and examined in detail.
Also I’d like to see the detail of the what/where/why/hows of Greek banks receiving big chunks of money.
Report themover July 13, 2015 12:57 PM BST
“There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
John Adams 1826
Report mobo July 13, 2015 12:57 PM BST
anyone thought of reducing the interest rates drastically or do they really not want to help greece
I have never heard of anyone mentioning this or doesn't it work like that??
Report metro john July 13, 2015 1:03 PM BST
What happens when Greece defaults again, all the loan not re-payed, it will be written off, if you ain't got it ya can't pay it.Why not get straight too the end result(worldwide) is some well thought out bankers plan??? we already  know they are thick as s h i t .
Report themover July 13, 2015 1:06 PM BST
Greece has nothing to lose and the people didn't vote for this. They need to get out on the streets and let it be known!
Report metro john July 13, 2015 1:10 PM BST
That money we or Europe just gave for a loan that can't be repaid,  would this not have been better spent on projects of hope(we need hope you know)
Report CJ70 July 13, 2015 1:45 PM BST
If Greece defaults the party and free money ends. This is why they are hanging on in by all means possible.
Report TheFifthEmpire July 13, 2015 1:49 PM BST
They should leave and in Portugal if the socialist win the next genereal election we're goingo to leave eurozone, wait and see.
Report CJ70 July 13, 2015 1:58 PM BST
What is more likely to happen is if the far-left get elected in Portugal they'll do exactly the same thing as Greece.

It'll be different this time, right?
Report TheFifthEmpire July 13, 2015 2:16 PM BST

We're destroyed by socialist party with their corruption. They buy votes with extremely high pensions to public workers and with huge public works, like roads and cultural centers.

Socialist party has created a scheme to hide public debt as private debt, so when IMF came here they discovered that the debt-to-gdp ratio was unsustainable.

Moreover 40 years ago they wrote a socialist Constitution and they are using it to block the necessary cuts.

Antonio Costa the new leader is like Tsipras or even worse, he's promising more spendig and more taxes.

The private sector is doing good but taxes are too high.

This is a very complex country were communist party controls mass media and some universities, the socialists control public sector and where portuguese people until recent times were conservative and economically liberal.
Report TheFifthEmpire July 13, 2015 2:19 PM BST
CJ70, our last socialist Prime Minister...
Report CJ70 July 13, 2015 2:24 PM BST
Yepp, pretty much the same as Greece. But the socialists wont leave the EU because it lays bare the dire situation of the country. I.e there's no votes in leaving and the implementation of necessary cuts to welfare and Gov. spending.
Report TheFifthEmpire July 13, 2015 2:29 PM BST
But Portugal is not Greece... because some portuguese socialists believe that they can leave eurozone to control the currency and that they can make agreements with Brazil, Angola, Mozambique, Macau, Timor, Equatorial Guinea and maybe with the USA and China. Unlike Greece we had an huge empire and the socialists believe that money is going to come from there. But I know that they're wrong.
Report TheFifthEmpire July 13, 2015 2:30 PM BST
“…and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite a characteristic of them.“

Margaret Tatcher
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