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All sorts could be done but there’s no real political will to do so, nothing will ever change while we are in the EU
Refusing to pay any handouts to anyone not born here or hasn't paid at least 5 years income tax & ni above a certain threshold would help quite a bit.
HHmm also :-
chop housing benefit to f all so the housing market equalises out
chop working tax credits to f all and up the min wage , rather than finance companies wage bills
basically outlaw living on handouts as a life style choice, if you're not GENUINELY disabled, and there’s a job within x miles radius, regardless of whether it’s shovelling sh&t , you’re doing it or no handouts.
outlaw giving jobs to non uk citizens if it can be shown a uk citizen is available to do the work
force all companies doing business in the uk to pay uk tax on uk profits or get the f out.
Etc etc etc
Refusing to pay any handouts to anyone not born here or hasn't paid at least 5 years income tax & ni above a certain threshold would help quite a bit.
HHmm also :-
chop housing benefit to f all so the housing market equalises out
chop working tax credits to f all and up the min wage , rather than finance companies wage bills
basically outlaw living on handouts as a life style choice, if you're not GENUINELY disabled, and there’s a job within x miles radius, regardless of whether it’s shovelling sh&t , you’re doing it or no handouts.
outlaw giving jobs to non uk citizens if it can be shown a uk citizen is available to do the work
force all companies doing business in the uk to pay uk tax on uk profits or get the f out.
Etc etc etc
When you have the situation where around 9 out of 10 Scots receive more in largesse from the State than they pay in taxes you start to realise how out of kilter the tax and benefit system is - and 45% of them wanted independence from the UK taxpayer! Brainless!
The situation is little different in Wales and the North of England. It's madness.
The situation is little different in Wales and the North of England. It's madness.
pawras 24 Nov 14 13:57
chop housing benefit to f all so the housing market equalises out
If Housing Benefit is lowered, and the new figure, wherever it's applied in the UK, could mean that buy-to-let landlords can't pay the mortgage, so they could sell the property instead.
Where will all the homeless people live, with the current nationwide shortage of council houses?
chop housing benefit to f all so the housing market equalises out
If Housing Benefit is lowered, and the new figure, wherever it's applied in the UK, could mean that buy-to-let landlords can't pay the mortgage, so they could sell the property instead.
Where will all the homeless people live, with the current nationwide shortage of council houses?
The whole welfare state is a total mess but someone is going to have to grasp the nettle at some point because even with the exorbitant levels of tax we pay in real terms it’s becoming more and more unaffordable.
I'm not in any way against btl investments but I am against financing them with housing benefit i.e. my taxes.
If some of btl's go belly up so what , the government could increase it's housing stock by buying some of them.
you obviously couldn't chop housing benefit over night as that would cause chaos, but I would initially lower it to the point that I wouldn’t be financing anyone to live inside the m25 , or in affluent areas, in properties that many who work in an avg job couldn't afford the rent on.
that would end up with a shortage of people willing to work in London and other areas, which would then mean either an increase in wages across the board in that area and/or a drop in house prices.
I agree with the idea of building some more social housing, they'd be mainly tower blocks rather huge sprawling sh&t estates.
But mixing private and social housing doesn't work, those that have scrimped and saved to buy their own home don't tend to feel very positive towards someone living across the street in the same house for f all.
Basically I would up min wage to about £8 but at the same time I can’t see a justification for the total of all benefits a household can receive, except the genuinely disabled, being anymore than what someone gets for 40 hrs a week on min wage. If you have to live in a different area and can’t spawn numerous kids as a result then tough really because why should other people spend their lives financing you?
I'm not in any way against btl investments but I am against financing them with housing benefit i.e. my taxes.
If some of btl's go belly up so what , the government could increase it's housing stock by buying some of them.
you obviously couldn't chop housing benefit over night as that would cause chaos, but I would initially lower it to the point that I wouldn’t be financing anyone to live inside the m25 , or in affluent areas, in properties that many who work in an avg job couldn't afford the rent on.
that would end up with a shortage of people willing to work in London and other areas, which would then mean either an increase in wages across the board in that area and/or a drop in house prices.
I agree with the idea of building some more social housing, they'd be mainly tower blocks rather huge sprawling sh&t estates.
But mixing private and social housing doesn't work, those that have scrimped and saved to buy their own home don't tend to feel very positive towards someone living across the street in the same house for f all.
Basically I would up min wage to about £8 but at the same time I can’t see a justification for the total of all benefits a household can receive, except the genuinely disabled, being anymore than what someone gets for 40 hrs a week on min wage. If you have to live in a different area and can’t spawn numerous kids as a result then tough really because why should other people spend their lives financing you?
There are plenty of sh1tholes inside the M25.
And the non-enforceable living wage in London is £8-80p an hour, and if you believe the stories, over 1,000 companies already pay it.
We can't pick and chose what taxes are spent on.
My list would start with giving fack all to any other country in the world as aid, which the luvvies won't like, and say it's racist.
And the non-enforceable living wage in London is £8-80p an hour, and if you believe the stories, over 1,000 companies already pay it.
We can't pick and chose what taxes are spent on.
My list would start with giving fack all to any other country in the world as aid, which the luvvies won't like, and say it's racist.
I would class most of it inside the m25 as a sh&thole for what it costs.
I was meaning £8 across the whole country , maybe it would have to be higher in London. My fundamental point being that taxes shouldn't be susidising low wages and overly high rents.
I agree on the foreign aid, the luvvies love to bandy that word about in attempt to close down any opinion they don't like, they should try looking up the actual definition.
I was meaning £8 across the whole country , maybe it would have to be higher in London. My fundamental point being that taxes shouldn't be susidising low wages and overly high rents.
I agree on the foreign aid, the luvvies love to bandy that word about in attempt to close down any opinion they don't like, they should try looking up the actual definition.
My plan would be a mansion tax on the rich
push top tax rate up to 90%
make sure multi national corporations pay tax
make sure all rich pay their tax, close all tax avoidance schemes, take tax rectoactively
the government itself creates jobs
probably won't clear our debt, but doubt anything will
just makes it a fairer society
and me feel a but better
push top tax rate up to 90%
make sure multi national corporations pay tax
make sure all rich pay their tax, close all tax avoidance schemes, take tax rectoactively
the government itself creates jobs
probably won't clear our debt, but doubt anything will
just makes it a fairer society
and me feel a but better
nothing to see here (another monologue),
just a skin deep understanding of finance
and a complete ignorance of the real underlying issues
- like is said larry, leave this financial stuff alone, it's way over your pay grade
just a skin deep understanding of finance
and a complete ignorance of the real underlying issues
- like is said larry, leave this financial stuff alone, it's way over your pay grade
Go on Melly. Tell us what Hugh Hendry said to you as you dry humped his leg. Don't be shy. 
Nov 24, 2014 -- 6:11PM, pawras wrote:
The whole welfare state is a total mess but someone is going to have to grasp the nettle at some point because even with the exorbitant levels of tax we pay in real terms it’s becoming more and more unaffordable. I'm not in any way against btl investments but I am against financing them with housing benefit i.e. my taxes.If some of btl's go belly up so what , the government could increase it's housing stock by buying some of them.you obviously couldn't chop housing benefit over night as that would cause chaos, but I would initially lower it to the point that I wouldn’t be financing anyone to live inside the m25 , or in affluent areas, in properties that many who work in an avg job couldn't afford the rent on.that would end up with a shortage of people willing to work in London and other areas, which would then mean either an increase in wages across the board in that area and/or a drop in house prices.I agree with the idea of building some more social housing, they'd be mainly tower blocks rather huge sprawling sh&t estates.But mixing private and social housing doesn't work, those that have scrimped and saved to buy their own home don't tend to feel very positive towards someone living across the street in the same house for f all.Basically I would up min wage to about £8 but at the same time I can’t see a justification for the total of all benefits a household can receive, except the genuinely disabled, being anymore than what someone gets for 40 hrs a week on min wage. If you have to live in a different area and can’t spawn numerous kids as a result then tough really because why should other people spend their lives financing you?
Upping the minimum wage to £8......Jesus wept........it should be abolished.
Ebul : You are a nice enough guy but you are suffering a disconnect from reality.
As the top 10% of earners pay over half the tax already and when you see 40% it actually means 50%+ when you take into account both NI because both come out of your wages believe me. So say you went back to the 70s and went for an increase and people starting leaving as they did in the 70s. Plus people are more mobile now so a lot more would leave a lot quicker, so who would make up the missing input to the treasury? Or would you whack it up further until even more of them left? Then where would the money come from?
I agree on all profits companies should be subject to UK tax though.
Your idea of a fairer society entails me handing my hard over to other people via the government, and I’m afraid fck that.
Plus I know you’ve mentioned everyone should be paid the same which is total lowest common denominator nonsense in my eyes. Do you honestly think people are going to strive to succeed if they can only make the same as the lazy dossers that don’t really feel like trying??
I don’t think £8 an hour is a lot, when you combine that with zapping tax credits which subsidise wages for companies out of taxes I think it’s ok.
As the top 10% of earners pay over half the tax already and when you see 40% it actually means 50%+ when you take into account both NI because both come out of your wages believe me. So say you went back to the 70s and went for an increase and people starting leaving as they did in the 70s. Plus people are more mobile now so a lot more would leave a lot quicker, so who would make up the missing input to the treasury? Or would you whack it up further until even more of them left? Then where would the money come from?
I agree on all profits companies should be subject to UK tax though.
Your idea of a fairer society entails me handing my hard over to other people via the government, and I’m afraid fck that.
Plus I know you’ve mentioned everyone should be paid the same which is total lowest common denominator nonsense in my eyes. Do you honestly think people are going to strive to succeed if they can only make the same as the lazy dossers that don’t really feel like trying??
I don’t think £8 an hour is a lot, when you combine that with zapping tax credits which subsidise wages for companies out of taxes I think it’s ok.
Given as soon as you hit about 42k you're effective rate is basically 50% when you include ni I'd say we have a far far too socialist economy already.
I don't see why i should handover anything over 30% (all in), and I'm being generous then.
I don't see why i should handover anything over 30% (all in), and I'm being generous then.
Ebul you have hit a nerve...
"The government itself creates jobs"
Comic genius .
Tax & spend what could go wrong???
"The government itself creates jobs"
Comic genius .
Tax & spend what could go wrong???
ebul you're entitled to espouse what ever you want so long as you realise the reality is likely to be rather different
Ours must be the most selfish generation in history susie. Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young, swelling the population to create an illusion of growth, obsession with our house prices at the expense of the young and of course blowing up the national debt like it's an ever expanding balloon.
Watching the debt rise by £4k per second is frightening Mr Optimist.
Naively I thought the Coalition would at least halt the rise. Living within a Budget does not come as easily to them as to the rest of us.
Tebbitt, Major, Heath, and dare I mention her did not have such a privileged childhood. Norman speaks for many of us when he describes the current "Tories".
Naively I thought the Coalition would at least halt the rise. Living within a Budget does not come as easily to them as to the rest of us.
Tebbitt, Major, Heath, and dare I mention her did not have such a privileged childhood. Norman speaks for many of us when he describes the current "Tories".
Why do we infantilise ourselves in front of these barely competent brigands? They dont know anything. They have never created anything or really done anything. They should be treated with about as much respect as the average pawn broker because what they do amounts to little more than that. They take from one source, give to another and slice a bit off for themselves.
Naively I thought the Coalition would at least halt the rise. Living within a Budget does not come as easily to them as to the rest of us.
You can't cut debt by cutting expenditure. The spare capacity and lack of capital flow have serious knock-on effects on the rest of the economy.
You can't just deal with the problem by cutting benefits either-the costs of losing people to the black economy, permanent health effects arising
from poverty and the productively loss from those who would have used the cash to get back into work or business is not trivial. At best the savings
are negated, at worst they are outstripped. Then your into a death spiral where the right demands even more petrol on the bonfire.
You can't cut debt by cutting expenditure. The spare capacity and lack of capital flow have serious knock-on effects on the rest of the economy.
You can't just deal with the problem by cutting benefits either-the costs of losing people to the black economy, permanent health effects arising
from poverty and the productively loss from those who would have used the cash to get back into work or business is not trivial. At best the savings
are negated, at worst they are outstripped. Then your into a death spiral where the right demands even more petrol on the bonfire.
You can't cut debt by cutting expenditure. The spare capacity and lack of capital flow have serious knock-on effects on the rest of the economy.
You do talk some rubbish cheese.
You do talk some rubbish cheese.
Nov 25, 2014 -- 3:25PM, cheese wrote:
Naively I thought the Coalition would at least halt the rise. Living within a Budget does not come as easily to them as to the rest of us.You can't cut debt by cutting expenditure. The spare capacity and lack of capital flow have serious knock-on effects on the rest of the economy. You can't just deal with the problem by cutting benefits either-the costs of losing people to the black economy, permanent health effects arisingfrom poverty and the productively loss from those who would have used the cash to get back into work or business is not trivial. At best the savingsare negated, at worst they are outstripped. Then your into a death spiral where the right demands even more petrol on the bonfire.
Nonsense.
Debt is used to create demand in the economy that is temporary and leads to a boom then a bust as no one, no organisation can borrow forever. Government spending in order to create jobs is simply broken window fallacy.
cheese,
Expenditure covers a whole range of issues.
We are constantly told the government's power is being usurped by Brussels. Why then do we need the biggest House of Lords in history, and the largest Cabinet in history?
Why do we need several layers of local government?
These should be priorities, not spare bedrooms.
Sorry Tory boys this lot are as weak, selfserving, and servile to the Financial Services and the Media Corporations as the last lot.
Expenditure covers a whole range of issues.
We are constantly told the government's power is being usurped by Brussels. Why then do we need the biggest House of Lords in history, and the largest Cabinet in history?
Why do we need several layers of local government?
These should be priorities, not spare bedrooms.
Sorry Tory boys this lot are as weak, selfserving, and servile to the Financial Services and the Media Corporations as the last lot.
I think this problem is world wide
The Credit Crunch has made it a lot worse, it is difficult to see how on earth anybody's
debt can be cleared
We have pushed capitalism too hard, I think the whole lot will crash at some stage, when the US cannot back its interest on it debt
We are relying on indefinite expansion, this is not possible.
I notice despite 3/4 million public workers thrown out of a job, a clamp down on benefits, we are still running a deficit?
Because of course by doing this we take out the economy which does not help business
I doubt anyone can clear our debt, if we can get back to clearing our deficit probably best we can do
I have little faith Cameron will do it, I dont think he cares really as long as the rich are ok.
We need to reduce immigration but can we afford to leave the EU
tricky?
The Credit Crunch has made it a lot worse, it is difficult to see how on earth anybody's
debt can be cleared
We have pushed capitalism too hard, I think the whole lot will crash at some stage, when the US cannot back its interest on it debt
We are relying on indefinite expansion, this is not possible.
I notice despite 3/4 million public workers thrown out of a job, a clamp down on benefits, we are still running a deficit?
Because of course by doing this we take out the economy which does not help business
I doubt anyone can clear our debt, if we can get back to clearing our deficit probably best we can do
I have little faith Cameron will do it, I dont think he cares really as long as the rich are ok.
We need to reduce immigration but can we afford to leave the EU
tricky?
As for the next election
The top half will vote Tory, because they will be better off
The bottom half will vote Labour, because they will better off
Those in the middle will decide it
I admit I will vote Labour, because that is where I am, the bottom half.
I also fid The Tories since Thatcher, Major and Cameron morally evil, they care nothing for society as a whole.
I never thought they were too bad before that, although always pro business, one would expect that.
ps
If Cameron gets in ain't the worse result for me, because he has guaranteed to protect pensions
but I still think these monetarist policies are evil, so I am obliged to vote Labour despite disagreeing with all their
weird equalities, only economic equality concerns me. I see too many people at the bottom suffering.
The top half will vote Tory, because they will be better off
The bottom half will vote Labour, because they will better off
Those in the middle will decide it
I admit I will vote Labour, because that is where I am, the bottom half.
I also fid The Tories since Thatcher, Major and Cameron morally evil, they care nothing for society as a whole.
I never thought they were too bad before that, although always pro business, one would expect that.
ps
If Cameron gets in ain't the worse result for me, because he has guaranteed to protect pensions
but I still think these monetarist policies are evil, so I am obliged to vote Labour despite disagreeing with all their
weird equalities, only economic equality concerns me. I see too many people at the bottom suffering.
I cannot help throwing outrageous communism statements now and again
You have to ask did overthrowing communism do us much good, since we have made the world even more competitive
so it is now harder for us. Also look where a large number have come
This wonderful desire to support Ukraine, if they get into EU, guess where they will come...here
We don't use a lot of sense at times
so it is now harder for us. Also look where a large number have come
This wonderful desire to support Ukraine, if they get into EU, guess where they will come...here
We don't use a lot of sense at times
This wonderful desire to support Ukraine, if they get into EU, guess where they will come...here
No, they'll go to Germany or Poland because they are more accessible and more dynamic economically.
In fact they already do.
There isn't nearly the level of interesting in immigrating to this country that you might imagine.
Do you not remember the Romanian hordes that were supposed to be coming here? Did it not occur to you
that immigrants might just not be that interested?
I will check the figures
but our population is going up, it needs to go down
we are getting poorer as a country
we no longer compete well enough, the hard truth
but our population is going up, it needs to go down
we are getting poorer as a country
we no longer compete well enough, the hard truth
We should stop living in this dream world we are a world power any more
The US rules now, let them do their own dirty work
They wont abandon Europe, they are too frightened of the Russians taking over.
I would advise us to keep Nuclear weapons, but for the rest we only defend our own territories
The rest of the World is no longer our concern....we have enough problems of our own
The US rules now, let them do their own dirty work
They wont abandon Europe, they are too frightened of the Russians taking over.
I would advise us to keep Nuclear weapons, but for the rest we only defend our own territories
The rest of the World is no longer our concern....we have enough problems of our own
but our population is going up, it needs to go down
And who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
And who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
Yes we have an ageing population but you can’t just keep booting the issue into the long grass by increasing the population via immigration, when we have a finite amount of space and the immigrants will get old as well and the problem will mushroom.
And who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
Not the ones we're importing that's for sure.
They'll all be claiming themselves as they get older.
That's if they're not already claiming now through tax credits, housing benefits etc.
Your Ponzi scheme isn't even possible.
Not the ones we're importing that's for sure.
They'll all be claiming themselves as they get older.
That's if they're not already claiming now through tax credits, housing benefits etc.
Your Ponzi scheme isn't even possible.
We're making the potential problem with our aging population worse by importing people before they're needed.
Why not wait and see?
We can always import people when we need them to do the donkey work.
At the moment we don't need them.
Anyway I don't want to be looked after in my old age by a racist immigrant.
Why not wait and see?
We can always import people when we need them to do the donkey work.
At the moment we don't need them.
Anyway I don't want to be looked after in my old age by a racist immigrant.
Just when you think cheese can't trump his lunacy he trumps his own lunacy:
And who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
You might be able to grow him in a bag of compost but you couldn't invent him.
And who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
You might be able to grow him in a bag of compost but you couldn't invent him.
ebul
The top half will vote Tory, because they will be better off
The bottom half will vote Labour, because they will better off
Those in the middle will decide it
I don't think maths is your strong point is it ebul?
The top half will vote Tory, because they will be better off
The bottom half will vote Labour, because they will better off
Those in the middle will decide it
I don't think maths is your strong point is it ebul?
Yes we have an ageing population but you can’t just keep booting the issue into the long grass by increasing the population via immigration, when we have a finite amount of space and the immigrants will get old as well and the problem will mushroom.
Of course they will, but not when a hugely disproportionate number of the population is old and unable to work. We have a demographic timebomb. I shouldn't have to explain that.
Of course they will, but not when a hugely disproportionate number of the population is old and unable to work. We have a demographic timebomb. I shouldn't have to explain that.
You do need to explain what happens when your incomers get old cheese. Not only will the indiginous Brits then need looking after but so will your incomers. Who looks after them? You also need to clarify if you understand what a ponzi is?
Not a single one of all these "larry-merry-go-round" contrived posts say anything of value or present an original idea. Just the same misconceptions about debt, deficits and the one that the racist halfwit always finds a way to bring into the conversation......immigration. But there is one in particular that made me laugh the most, so here it goes:
Ours must be the most selfish generation in history susie. Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young, swelling the population to create an illusion of growth, obsession with our house prices at the expense of the young and of course blowing up the national debt like it's an ever expanding balloon.
Really, we are selfish? As compared with what other generation that was not selfish? Humans are wired to be selfish - if that wasn't the case they'd be no rich and poor through the dawn of civilized time because those who accumulated wealth they'd hand all back to the poor because they were not selfish. Selfish is good, like the man said, greed is good, because benevolence has never made anyone a millionaire except perhaps the Pope and even then I have my doubts.
Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young??? Where do I start with this one? I thought larry and larry and larry and larry were anti-immigration because all this unproductive rif-raf migrates to the UK to enjoy our social system benefits and abuse the system. Now they are "productive young"?!?!? Can't have it both ways......well, in larry's case with his 1000 voices....you can't.
Illusion of growth??? You keep bringing this up larry and i keep explaining it you but it seems it keeps going over your head. The wealth is real, not an illusion. Just because of your wretched condition you've been left out, that doesn't make the wealth an illusion. On the aggregate as a society we are more wealthy than ever before, and not just on fiatcos larry, REAL STUFF. Homes, second properties, vacation homes, cars, boats, yachts, high end hifi systems, icrap, all kind of things we surround ourselves with to make out life easier, holidays for our leisure and pleasure. You miss out, too bad, but just because you missed out that doesn't make it an illusion. Get some one to wheel you to a window and open it ffs, the wealth (and envy) will jump right at you.
The deficit is another one where you and a lot of your characters still don't get despite having it explained to you dozen of times. The deficit is blowing, that's great, i wish it blew out more. Why? because it adds to the wealth created in this country and if the CONSEQUENCE is able to borrow more AT THE LOWEST INTEREST RATE EVER, then I want more of it. (There is a lot more to be said about deficits and your misunderstanding them but I am a bit pressed for time now - plus if it has already been explained to you a dozen times and you still don't get it, it's likely to be a waste of time explaining it again)
Like I said, in the end you turned out to be remarkably stupid.
Ours must be the most selfish generation in history susie. Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young, swelling the population to create an illusion of growth, obsession with our house prices at the expense of the young and of course blowing up the national debt like it's an ever expanding balloon.
Really, we are selfish? As compared with what other generation that was not selfish? Humans are wired to be selfish - if that wasn't the case they'd be no rich and poor through the dawn of civilized time because those who accumulated wealth they'd hand all back to the poor because they were not selfish. Selfish is good, like the man said, greed is good, because benevolence has never made anyone a millionaire except perhaps the Pope and even then I have my doubts.
Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young??? Where do I start with this one? I thought larry and larry and larry and larry were anti-immigration because all this unproductive rif-raf migrates to the UK to enjoy our social system benefits and abuse the system. Now they are "productive young"?!?!? Can't have it both ways......well, in larry's case with his 1000 voices....you can't.
Illusion of growth??? You keep bringing this up larry and i keep explaining it you but it seems it keeps going over your head. The wealth is real, not an illusion. Just because of your wretched condition you've been left out, that doesn't make the wealth an illusion. On the aggregate as a society we are more wealthy than ever before, and not just on fiatcos larry, REAL STUFF. Homes, second properties, vacation homes, cars, boats, yachts, high end hifi systems, icrap, all kind of things we surround ourselves with to make out life easier, holidays for our leisure and pleasure. You miss out, too bad, but just because you missed out that doesn't make it an illusion. Get some one to wheel you to a window and open it ffs, the wealth (and envy) will jump right at you.
The deficit is another one where you and a lot of your characters still don't get despite having it explained to you dozen of times. The deficit is blowing, that's great, i wish it blew out more. Why? because it adds to the wealth created in this country and if the CONSEQUENCE is able to borrow more AT THE LOWEST INTEREST RATE EVER, then I want more of it. (There is a lot more to be said about deficits and your misunderstanding them but I am a bit pressed for time now - plus if it has already been explained to you a dozen times and you still don't get it, it's likely to be a waste of time explaining it again)
Like I said, in the end you turned out to be remarkably stupid.
yeah and rampant immigration is just making that timebomb worse
It's one thing to be offensive and right Melly and quite another to be offensive and wrong.
Really, we are selfish? As compared with what other generation that was not selfish?
All of them. It is more hard wired for one generation to want the next to do better than your curious notion that all generations since time immemorial were driven by greed. This is the first generation which is saying a big fucck you to the future.
Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young??? Where do I start with this one? I thought larry and larry and larry and larry were anti-immigration because all this unproductive rif-raf migrates to the UK to enjoy our social system benefits and abuse the system. Now they are "productive young"?!?!? Can't have it both ways
You start in the same place you always do Melly. That everybody else here is me. That's your problem right there.
Really, we are selfish? As compared with what other generation that was not selfish?
All of them. It is more hard wired for one generation to want the next to do better than your curious notion that all generations since time immemorial were driven by greed. This is the first generation which is saying a big fucck you to the future.
Denuding the rest of the world of their productive young??? Where do I start with this one? I thought larry and larry and larry and larry were anti-immigration because all this unproductive rif-raf migrates to the UK to enjoy our social system benefits and abuse the system. Now they are "productive young"?!?!? Can't have it both ways
You start in the same place you always do Melly. That everybody else here is me. That's your problem right there.
Illusion of growth??? You keep bringing this up larry and i keep explaining it you but it seems it keeps going over your head. The wealth is real, not an illusion. Just because of your wretched condition you've been left out, that doesn't make the wealth an illusion. On the aggregate as a society we are more wealthy than ever before, and not just on fiatcos larry, REAL STUFF. Homes, second properties, vacation homes, cars, boats, yachts, high end hifi systems, icrap, all kind of things we surround ourselves with to make out life easier, holidays for our leisure and pleasure.
And I left the doozy until last. WRONG WRONG WRONG. It's all been put on the plastic. Fur coat and no knickers. Real wealth? Sadly in most cases no. It really is all an illusion.
Remind us Melly what does the national debt stand at? What is the sum total of private debt? And finally. How is it in your tiny mind that you equate borrowing a higher percentage of GDP to create a lower amount of suppoed growth with "wealth"?
You're a clown.
And I left the doozy until last. WRONG WRONG WRONG. It's all been put on the plastic. Fur coat and no knickers. Real wealth? Sadly in most cases no. It really is all an illusion.
Remind us Melly what does the national debt stand at? What is the sum total of private debt? And finally. How is it in your tiny mind that you equate borrowing a higher percentage of GDP to create a lower amount of suppoed growth with "wealth"?
You're a clown.
EO You've made him all happy you've responded to him
I don't even usually read Excrements posts but I'm thinking more and more than him and crybaby are one and the same.
I don't even usually read Excrements posts but I'm thinking more and more than him and crybaby are one and the same.
ebulGery 25 Nov 14 22:59
I think this problem is world wide
The Credit Crunch has made it a lot worse, it is difficult to see how on earth anybody's
debt can be cleared
it wasn't a world wide problem it was a problem for the western world.
The west has had it good for the last two hundred years, it is basically a rebalancing. For every winner there are losers two. Standards of living are rising massively in the east. Look at the growth in China and India ( a third of the worlds population live in these countries).
Look at the gulf states. Qatar, Dubai, Abu dhabi these countries are remarkably rich yet 50 years ago they were basically dust in the desert.
The harsh fact is there are millions of people in the world who are prepared to work harder for less. The attitude to education in many of these countries is far better than ours.
The UK debt has risen by nearly a trillion pounds in the last decade. Tripling in total. Yet plenty are saying there is nothing to cut.
Britain is a ridiculously expensive country with many aspects propped up by government subsidy. The day of reckoning will come. The west are living beyond their means and this can't go on for ever, we pay more in debt interest than on defense the figure will soon pass spending on education.
None of the political parties will deal with the issue because none have the guts to they are only interested in power for powers sake.
I think this problem is world wide
The Credit Crunch has made it a lot worse, it is difficult to see how on earth anybody's
debt can be cleared
it wasn't a world wide problem it was a problem for the western world.
The west has had it good for the last two hundred years, it is basically a rebalancing. For every winner there are losers two. Standards of living are rising massively in the east. Look at the growth in China and India ( a third of the worlds population live in these countries).
Look at the gulf states. Qatar, Dubai, Abu dhabi these countries are remarkably rich yet 50 years ago they were basically dust in the desert.
The harsh fact is there are millions of people in the world who are prepared to work harder for less. The attitude to education in many of these countries is far better than ours.
The UK debt has risen by nearly a trillion pounds in the last decade. Tripling in total. Yet plenty are saying there is nothing to cut.
Britain is a ridiculously expensive country with many aspects propped up by government subsidy. The day of reckoning will come. The west are living beyond their means and this can't go on for ever, we pay more in debt interest than on defense the figure will soon pass spending on education.
None of the political parties will deal with the issue because none have the guts to they are only interested in power for powers sake.
ebulGery 24 Nov 14 19:18
My plan would be a mansion tax on the rich
push top tax rate up to 90%
make sure multi national corporations pay tax
make sure all rich pay their tax, close all tax avoidance schemes, take tax rectoactively
the government itself creates jobs
The top 1 % pay 30% of all income tax. The top 0.1% pay more tax than the bottom 50%.
If you increased tax to 90% many of these people would simply quit the country. The major companies would leave. Thus dramatically reducing tax take.
As we are part of europe multi national corporations can base their HQ where ever they want often in countries like Luxembourg where the tax rate is very low. If you made them pay tax here they would just move the physical hq to these countries. The knock on effect is the law firms. accountants financiers who work with them would have no work and either leave or have a massively reduced income thus further reducing the tax take.
The only way to deal with the likes of Amazon, starbucks etc is for the public to not shop at these stores. Buy from local shops who pay their taxes. Unfortunately the general public like the lower prices ease of service and whilst they may bleat about them not paying tax they still shop there. The public can't have it both ways.
My plan would be a mansion tax on the rich
push top tax rate up to 90%
make sure multi national corporations pay tax
make sure all rich pay their tax, close all tax avoidance schemes, take tax rectoactively
the government itself creates jobs
The top 1 % pay 30% of all income tax. The top 0.1% pay more tax than the bottom 50%.
If you increased tax to 90% many of these people would simply quit the country. The major companies would leave. Thus dramatically reducing tax take.
As we are part of europe multi national corporations can base their HQ where ever they want often in countries like Luxembourg where the tax rate is very low. If you made them pay tax here they would just move the physical hq to these countries. The knock on effect is the law firms. accountants financiers who work with them would have no work and either leave or have a massively reduced income thus further reducing the tax take.
The only way to deal with the likes of Amazon, starbucks etc is for the public to not shop at these stores. Buy from local shops who pay their taxes. Unfortunately the general public like the lower prices ease of service and whilst they may bleat about them not paying tax they still shop there. The public can't have it both ways.
sorry, to drop in and out like this larry but unlike you
i have other things that keep me busy other than banging posts
back and forth to myself around the clock every day, besides.....i can walk
a couple of housekeeping items before we begin if i may:
first, perhaps in that mush that you call your brain, where reality and fantasy blend together into a thick fog
you can say WE, but when you are addressing me perhaps you can take the
first step in stopping to humiliate yourself by saying I - the WE illusion blew up
in your face long ago, since THERE IS NO ONE ELSE POSTING HERE - WITHOUT A MINUTAE Of A DOUBT
second, i have no idea where your learned economics but it must be on the back page of a comic book
somewhere - there is no subject matter that you get more consistently wrong on here than whenever you
try to sound clever on economics, with the same comical result whether you are posting as EO, ski-wiz,
bongo, java, subversion or many of the other character you choose to appear on here
with the housekeeping items out of the way, on to your lesson.....again
I see your usual arms waiving and bluster on alleging that this generation is the most selfish, what I don't see is any empirical evidence to back up your rubbish claim - just your opinion. You do remember not long ago, these lands were ruled by a generation of oppressive nobility though a feudalistic system backed by arms to selfishly take everything for themselves, no? We've come a lot ways my one trick pony, it's just that time has passed you by and you can't tell.
It's not all put on plastic, that might be your own experience that's why you keep parroting this rubbish but there are a lot of wealthy people in this country that own assets without the debt, without the leverage. And it's not juts money they have because money can be created as well get destroyed by a few keystrokes on a computer keyboard, they own assets. They own land, homes, cars, and all the stuff that you can touch and feel and make life more pleasant. Well, sort of like me.
Now, I know mugs like you who are milking the system, or unable to work because of a disability and other various issues or they have not enough education or brain power to get into jobs (or create their own business) where they don't keep getting poorer because of stagnating wages would rely on credit to get what they want now (push demand forward - wow, what a noble concept, every effective marketing campaign relies on it). Which is okay too, provided the debt is serviced. And they too end up with THINGS they enjoy, not an illusion. Money churns totally oblivious to having come from savings or credit). Your mind sees everything as an illusion, why am I not surprised?
I couldn't be arsed to remind YOU (not US - THERE IS NO US ON HERE, JUST YOU) what the national debt stands at simply because IT DOESN'T MATTER. Japan's is way higher and they have enjoyed one of the highest standards of living on the planet with unemployment consistently lower than 4% and creditors climbing over each other to lend them money for 10 years at LESS THAN 1% even in the face of current efforts to debase the currency (are you starting to get it?). The US is another example. There are many more.
And the best for last:
How is it in your tiny mind that you equate borrowing a higher percentage of GDP to create a lower amount of suppoed growth with "wealth"?
I never said that, in your typical style when you are totally out of bullets, out come the strawman arguments. What I did say was that DEFICIT which is government spending over and above revenues is GOOD because it is money pumped into the real economy which creates additional wealth, higher GDP. The less joe public spends, the more government should spend in his palce to keep aggregate demand whole. Diminishing returns yes, but who gives a feck when the curve is asymptotic - it never crosses over. And who gives a **** when there is no consequences - none at all, not on the value of the currency, not on borrowing rates. All these profligate and technically totally bankrupt sovereigns (Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy) are borrowing money NOW (at the highest debt to GDP ratio) at the LOWEST rates ever. Have you looked at the Spanish 10-yr yield lately? How about France's that you keep harping about every now and then as bongo? In a centrally controlled by central bank money printed out of thin air economy, you can do that and get away it for a long time, longer than anyone imagined a few years ago. And HERE'S A KEY POINT because this is where you are confused, the wealth acquired, real assets acquired with this illusionary money creation system IS REAL. It can't get destroyed by a few strokes on keyboard and just erased from a balance sheet. It's there to be enjoyed by those who accumulate it. It's real.
Like i said, your many issues are all too obvious, but the one thing that surprised me however was how remarkably stupid you turned out in the end.
i have other things that keep me busy other than banging posts
back and forth to myself around the clock every day, besides.....i can walk
a couple of housekeeping items before we begin if i may:
first, perhaps in that mush that you call your brain, where reality and fantasy blend together into a thick fog
you can say WE, but when you are addressing me perhaps you can take the
first step in stopping to humiliate yourself by saying I - the WE illusion blew up
in your face long ago, since THERE IS NO ONE ELSE POSTING HERE - WITHOUT A MINUTAE Of A DOUBT
second, i have no idea where your learned economics but it must be on the back page of a comic book
somewhere - there is no subject matter that you get more consistently wrong on here than whenever you
try to sound clever on economics, with the same comical result whether you are posting as EO, ski-wiz,
bongo, java, subversion or many of the other character you choose to appear on here
with the housekeeping items out of the way, on to your lesson.....again
I see your usual arms waiving and bluster on alleging that this generation is the most selfish, what I don't see is any empirical evidence to back up your rubbish claim - just your opinion. You do remember not long ago, these lands were ruled by a generation of oppressive nobility though a feudalistic system backed by arms to selfishly take everything for themselves, no? We've come a lot ways my one trick pony, it's just that time has passed you by and you can't tell.
It's not all put on plastic, that might be your own experience that's why you keep parroting this rubbish but there are a lot of wealthy people in this country that own assets without the debt, without the leverage. And it's not juts money they have because money can be created as well get destroyed by a few keystrokes on a computer keyboard, they own assets. They own land, homes, cars, and all the stuff that you can touch and feel and make life more pleasant. Well, sort of like me.
Now, I know mugs like you who are milking the system, or unable to work because of a disability and other various issues or they have not enough education or brain power to get into jobs (or create their own business) where they don't keep getting poorer because of stagnating wages would rely on credit to get what they want now (push demand forward - wow, what a noble concept, every effective marketing campaign relies on it
). Which is okay too, provided the debt is serviced. And they too end up with THINGS they enjoy, not an illusion. Money churns totally oblivious to having come from savings or credit). Your mind sees everything as an illusion, why am I not surprised? I couldn't be arsed to remind YOU (not US - THERE IS NO US ON HERE, JUST YOU) what the national debt stands at simply because IT DOESN'T MATTER. Japan's is way higher and they have enjoyed one of the highest standards of living on the planet with unemployment consistently lower than 4% and creditors climbing over each other to lend them money for 10 years at LESS THAN 1% even in the face of current efforts to debase the currency (are you starting to get it?). The US is another example. There are many more.
And the best for last:
How is it in your tiny mind that you equate borrowing a higher percentage of GDP to create a lower amount of suppoed growth with "wealth"?
I never said that, in your typical style when you are totally out of bullets, out come the strawman arguments. What I did say was that DEFICIT which is government spending over and above revenues is GOOD because it is money pumped into the real economy which creates additional wealth, higher GDP. The less joe public spends, the more government should spend in his palce to keep aggregate demand whole. Diminishing returns yes, but who gives a feck when the curve is asymptotic - it never crosses over. And who gives a **** when there is no consequences - none at all, not on the value of the currency, not on borrowing rates. All these profligate and technically totally bankrupt sovereigns (Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy) are borrowing money NOW (at the highest debt to GDP ratio) at the LOWEST rates ever. Have you looked at the Spanish 10-yr yield lately? How about France's that you keep harping about every now and then as bongo? In a centrally controlled by central bank money printed out of thin air economy, you can do that and get away it for a long time, longer than anyone imagined a few years ago. And HERE'S A KEY POINT because this is where you are confused, the wealth acquired, real assets acquired with this illusionary money creation system IS REAL. It can't get destroyed by a few strokes on keyboard and just erased from a balance sheet. It's there to be enjoyed by those who accumulate it. It's real.
Like i said, your many issues are all too obvious, but the one thing that surprised me however was how remarkably stupid you turned out in the end.
i have to go for now larry
so huddle all the other characters in your head
whom you used to comment on economics in the past and
see if you can come up with an answer that a five year old
child wouldn't laugh at
and oh, yes, you've been engaging yourself all morning,
don't get carried away again and forget to go to your dance class
so huddle all the other characters in your head
whom you used to comment on economics in the past and
see if you can come up with an answer that a five year old
child wouldn't laugh at
and oh, yes, you've been engaging yourself all morning,
don't get carried away again and forget to go to your dance class
Housekeeping? Okay what is a minutae of doubt? It must be important because you keep talking about it.
In a centrally controlled by central bank money printed out of thin air economy, you can do that and get away it for a long time, longer than anyone imagined a few years ago.
Anyone? Don't be so coy Melly. It was you specifically on these very pages over on the tradefair forum. You were telling anybody who would listen that the currency was failing, now, to buy as much gold as they could and that a tsunami of inflation was coming. You were wrong then and you are still wrong.
Your belated advocacy of jumping off a cliff, admiring the view and telling everyone that it doesn't hurt at all on the way down would be baffling to any sane person. Any sane person would also find your comments about debt being irrelevant just more evidece of your insanity.
Now wave those arms sucker. Not, I repeat not waive. Housekeeping old boy.
In a centrally controlled by central bank money printed out of thin air economy, you can do that and get away it for a long time, longer than anyone imagined a few years ago.
Anyone? Don't be so coy Melly. It was you specifically on these very pages over on the tradefair forum. You were telling anybody who would listen that the currency was failing, now, to buy as much gold as they could and that a tsunami of inflation was coming. You were wrong then and you are still wrong.
Your belated advocacy of jumping off a cliff, admiring the view and telling everyone that it doesn't hurt at all on the way down would be baffling to any sane person. Any sane person would also find your comments about debt being irrelevant just more evidece of your insanity.
Now wave those arms sucker. Not, I repeat not waive. Housekeeping old boy.
Nov 26, 2014 -- 12:26AM, cheese wrote:
but our population is going up, it needs to go downAnd who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
They can support themselves by saving for a pension. Government needs to stop printing fake money that erodes pension funds. Families need to start taking care of their own parents. Let old people die peacefully, we all have to die, instead of pumping them full of drugs to prolong their lives.
You hit a nail on the head with , "Families need to start taking care of their own parents"
but our population is going up, it needs to go downAnd who do you think is going to support the ageing population?
Don't fall for this stuff.
The "ageing population" haven't suddenly appeared . They have been around 65 years, for 50 of them paying taxes and NI.
Successive governments have spent the money and another £1.3 trill. on top.
Scumbags who have sustained a false sense of well being to win elections in the knowledge they won't be around when settling day arrives. The Ponzi scheme operated by these spivs and chancers, sustained by their supporters is coming to fruition.
Don't fall for this stuff.
The "ageing population" haven't suddenly appeared . They have been around 65 years, for 50 of them paying taxes and NI.
Successive governments have spent the money and another £1.3 trill. on top.
Scumbags who have sustained a false sense of well being to win elections in the knowledge they won't be around when settling day arrives. The Ponzi scheme operated by these spivs and chancers, sustained by their supporters is coming to fruition.
What happened to cheese? I thought he was going to be the first left winger to address the riposte having brought up this nonsense about immigrants paying for the old:
You do need to explain what happens when your incomers get old cheese. Not only will the indiginous Brits then need looking after but so will your incomers. Who looks after them? You also need to clarify if you understand what a ponzi is?
You do need to explain what happens when your incomers get old cheese. Not only will the indiginous Brits then need looking after but so will your incomers. Who looks after them? You also need to clarify if you understand what a ponzi is?
larry, feel free to do a victory lap, i missed the "i".
how about it means you are a psychopath with serious mental illness issues who WITHOUT A MORSEL OF DOUBT is posting under more names than i care to remember, WITHOUT A NANO PARTICLE OF A POSSIBILITY that is not the case. Clear now, larry?
the problem with you larry is that you have intertwined reality and fantasy so much and so often in your deeply disturbed mind, you haven't the faintest what is real or made up anymore.....so you make it all up as you go along. the other problem evidently that my posts over on the other forum that you followed so religiously trying to learn, were so over your head, you still haven't a clue what i was posting. and if i explained the "inflation tsunami" comment to you as well as the "short apple trade" to you keep posting as Gin one more time, i'd be wearing out the keys of my keyboard. you don't get it, you don't get it, that doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it over your head.
gold, that you keep bringing up, is an asset, larry, not money. you parroted something that showed YET AGAIN that in the end you turned out remarkably stupid. wealth is REAL, just because you don't have any it doesn't make it an illusion. what is an illusion is this nightmare you relive every day sitting in a wheelchair, banging posts back and forth to yourself around the clock every day to create the illusion of a functioning forum. the guys who made it a functioning forum spat in your face in disgust and left long ago.
one alias was too many for you and 100 wasn't enough
how about it means you are a psychopath with serious mental illness issues who WITHOUT A MORSEL OF DOUBT is posting under more names than i care to remember, WITHOUT A NANO PARTICLE OF A POSSIBILITY that is not the case. Clear now, larry?
the problem with you larry is that you have intertwined reality and fantasy so much and so often in your deeply disturbed mind, you haven't the faintest what is real or made up anymore.....so you make it all up as you go along. the other problem evidently that my posts over on the other forum that you followed so religiously trying to learn, were so over your head, you still haven't a clue what i was posting. and if i explained the "inflation tsunami" comment to you as well as the "short apple trade" to you keep posting as Gin one more time, i'd be wearing out the keys of my keyboard. you don't get it, you don't get it, that doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it over your head.
gold, that you keep bringing up, is an asset, larry, not money. you parroted something that showed YET AGAIN that in the end you turned out remarkably stupid. wealth is REAL, just because you don't have any it doesn't make it an illusion. what is an illusion is this nightmare you relive every day sitting in a wheelchair, banging posts back and forth to yourself around the clock every day to create the illusion of a functioning forum. the guys who made it a functioning forum spat in your face in disgust and left long ago.
one alias was too many for you and 100 wasn't enough
how about it means you are a psychopath with serious mental illness issues who WITHOUT A MORSEL OF DOUBT is posting under more names than i care to remember, WITHOUT A NANO PARTICLE OF A POSSIBILITY that is not the case. Clear now, larry?
Sure I am Melly. On an anonymous forum the guy who everybody feels is a nutter has convinced himself that they are all wrong and this has metamorphosed into him thinking that they all come from one person. That's understandable if you are a bit nuts. Where it goes off the scale is where you assert it as being WITHOUT A NANO PARTICLE OF A POSSIBILITY that is not the case.
There really aren't the words to describe that kind of mad.
Sure I am Melly. On an anonymous forum the guy who everybody feels is a nutter has convinced himself that they are all wrong and this has metamorphosed into him thinking that they all come from one person. That's understandable if you are a bit nuts. Where it goes off the scale is where you assert it as being WITHOUT A NANO PARTICLE OF A POSSIBILITY that is not the case.
There really aren't the words to describe that kind of mad.
the problem with you larry is that you have intertwined reality and fantasy so much and so often in your deeply disturbed mind, you haven't the faintest what is real or made up anymore.....so you make it all up as you go along.
How else can I respond?
How else can I respond?
and if i explained the "inflation tsunami" comment to you as well as the "short apple trade" to you keep posting as Gin one more time, i'd be wearing out the keys of my keyboard. you don't get it, you don't get it, that doesn't make it wrong, it simply makes it over your head.
I get it Melly. Really I do. You have a new coat. It was hand made and very expensive and only you can see it because you are "special". Just like that tsunami of inflation which only you saw.
I get it Melly. Really I do. You have a new coat. It was hand made and very expensive and only you can see it because you are "special". Just like that tsunami of inflation which only you saw.
gold, that you keep bringing up, is an asset, larry, not money. you parroted something that showed YET AGAIN that in the end you turned out remarkably stupid.
It doesn't matter if it's an asset, money or a bag of spunds Melly. If it's price is £1800 and you tell everybody that the price is going to the money and it then drops to £1200 then not only are you shiit out of luck but there are a lot of people out there who may have took your advice.
What have you got to say to the people who took your cast iron guarantee and ended up losing the shirt off their backs Melly? You promised them Melly. Have you no shame Melly?
It doesn't matter if it's an asset, money or a bag of spunds Melly. If it's price is £1800 and you tell everybody that the price is going to the money and it then drops to £1200 then not only are you shiit out of luck but there are a lot of people out there who may have took your advice.
What have you got to say to the people who took your cast iron guarantee and ended up losing the shirt off their backs Melly? You promised them Melly. Have you no shame Melly?
It doesn't matter if it's an asset, money or a bag of spunds Melly. If it's price is £1800 and you tell everybody that the price is going to the money
I don't usualy do corrections but I'll make an exception just for you Melly:
It doesn't matter if it's an asset, money or a bag of spuds Melly. If it's price is £1800 and you tell everybody that the price is going to the moon.................
I don't usualy do corrections but I'll make an exception just for you Melly:
It doesn't matter if it's an asset, money or a bag of spuds Melly. If it's price is £1800 and you tell everybody that the price is going to the moon.................
cheese must be another northernlad alias.
He said we needed 7 million more immigrants.
He said we needed 7 million more immigrants.
I've waded right through this thread and, sadly, only a few posters have shown any understanding of what's actually going on.
Susie, as usual, seems to be on the ball, but, ironically, perhaps, the Extreme nutter is correct when he shows how eveybody else's ideas to try reform capitalism cannot work.
In fact, I've told ye all before that capitalism CANNOT work for the benefit of ALL.
No matter how ye tinker and tweak the system is NOT a Welfare Charity. It is a profit based generator o wealth.
Clogging the generator with welfare inefficiencies just fks the machine right up and is self-destructive and futile.
We need a totally different system.
Fk and fart about all ye like with tinkering measures, ye will find that DEBT, WAR, WASTE, POVERTY are all essential, integral parts of capitalism.
Our task is to take the constructive part of the capitalism age and move on to the new order: communism.
As pointed out over and over, this revolutionary change must be global and must be voluntary. it has never been tried before, but I'm sure it will work.
It has fk all to do with Russia, China, the nulab party or any of the other to ssers.
It's up to US!!!
Let's get it going!
ps
Great White also made some valid points, imo.
Susie, as usual, seems to be on the ball, but, ironically, perhaps, the Extreme nutter is correct when he shows how eveybody else's ideas to try reform capitalism cannot work.
In fact, I've told ye all before that capitalism CANNOT work for the benefit of ALL.
No matter how ye tinker and tweak the system is NOT a Welfare Charity. It is a profit based generator o wealth.
Clogging the generator with welfare inefficiencies just fks the machine right up and is self-destructive and futile.
We need a totally different system.
Fk and fart about all ye like with tinkering measures, ye will find that DEBT, WAR, WASTE, POVERTY are all essential, integral parts of capitalism.
Our task is to take the constructive part of the capitalism age and move on to the new order: communism.
As pointed out over and over, this revolutionary change must be global and must be voluntary. it has never been tried before, but I'm sure it will work.
It has fk all to do with Russia, China, the nulab party or any of the other to ssers.
It's up to US!!!
Let's get it going!
ps
Great White also made some valid points, imo.
So are you going just try and convince people of the benefits communism or are you proposing that it is imposed upon people?
I had this discussion with you or someone else a while back.
Basically I said the % that don’t want it have the right to set up shop in one part of the world and the those that do can set up shop elsewhere because you’ve no right to impose the system on anyone. (the cold war anyone?)
The poster ended up stating that it needs to be a global system that 95%+ are on board with because those that don’t want it will always gravitate towards setting up together elsewhere.
At which point in my mind it’s a case of dream on because I can’t ever see that happening.
I had this discussion with you or someone else a while back.
Basically I said the % that don’t want it have the right to set up shop in one part of the world and the those that do can set up shop elsewhere because you’ve no right to impose the system on anyone. (the cold war anyone?)
The poster ended up stating that it needs to be a global system that 95%+ are on board with because those that don’t want it will always gravitate towards setting up together elsewhere.
At which point in my mind it’s a case of dream on because I can’t ever see that happening.
Communism has failed.
Benn, Ralph Milliband, Crosland etc. accepted this in the late 50s. Although 60 years later it still suits the Mail to come up with puerile "RedEd" etc. Similarly it suits the media and the financial Services industry to perpetuate the myth; that the greed driven selfish system ( the one that enriches them) is ok because there is only ONE alternative, an Iron Country replica.
Blair's so called "Third Way" was nothing of the sort, it was thinly veiled and slightly diluted Thatcherism.The Coalition have continued in the same light.
A Real Third Way would necesitate shrinking drastically the Government machine, freezing some benefits and cutting others, encouraging manufacturing, ending govt. subsidies in a so called "Free Market", committing to or withdrawing from EC instead of faffing about, working with the UN all of the time instead of when it suits (U.S.),ensuring that companies who want a workforce educated, cared for, and housing subsidised in Britain pay THEIR tax in Britain, and ensuring that next time we are "all in it together".
Benn, Ralph Milliband, Crosland etc. accepted this in the late 50s. Although 60 years later it still suits the Mail to come up with puerile "RedEd" etc. Similarly it suits the media and the financial Services industry to perpetuate the myth; that the greed driven selfish system ( the one that enriches them) is ok because there is only ONE alternative, an Iron Country replica.
Blair's so called "Third Way" was nothing of the sort, it was thinly veiled and slightly diluted Thatcherism.The Coalition have continued in the same light.
A Real Third Way would necesitate shrinking drastically the Government machine, freezing some benefits and cutting others, encouraging manufacturing, ending govt. subsidies in a so called "Free Market", committing to or withdrawing from EC instead of faffing about, working with the UN all of the time instead of when it suits (U.S.),ensuring that companies who want a workforce educated, cared for, and housing subsidised in Britain pay THEIR tax in Britain, and ensuring that next time we are "all in it together".
yeah well won't happen
why should someone like me not avoid paying tax as much as possible when it's basically subsidising multi nationals paying their tax off shore or being handed to the likes of those black somali mulism animals who've just been convicted of running a child sex ring in Bristol or many other things I don't see why I should pay for or people in other EU countries that have no connection to this country etc etc.
if we were REALLY were all in it together then I'd have a different view but those days have long since past and I don't see the political will to ever bring them back
why should someone like me not avoid paying tax as much as possible when it's basically subsidising multi nationals paying their tax off shore or being handed to the likes of those black somali mulism animals who've just been convicted of running a child sex ring in Bristol or many other things I don't see why I should pay for or people in other EU countries that have no connection to this country etc etc.
if we were REALLY were all in it together then I'd have a different view but those days have long since past and I don't see the political will to ever bring them back
if we were REALLY were all in it together then I'd have a different view but those days have long since past and I don't see the political will to ever bring them back
That is it in a nutshell pawras. There is no will to rock the gravy train. So the debt, and immigration are still on the increase, still no decision on Europe. No worries, after next May it will be somebody else's problem; and the economy might just hold out a bit longer than some of us.
No need for the chaps to tighten their belts, their grandchildren can deal with it.
That is it in a nutshell pawras. There is no will to rock the gravy train. So the debt, and immigration are still on the increase, still no decision on Europe. No worries, after next May it will be somebody else's problem; and the economy might just hold out a bit longer than some of us.
No need for the chaps to tighten their belts, their grandchildren can deal with it.
A Real Third Way would necesitate shrinking drastically the Government machine, freezing some benefits and cutting others,
And how do you think people would react to this susie? We are borrowing a hundred billion to maintain a bloated government machine and there has been great gnashing of teeth, moaning and rolling of eyes.
And how do you think people would react to this susie? We are borrowing a hundred billion to maintain a bloated government machine and there has been great gnashing of teeth, moaning and rolling of eyes.
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