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blundered 2 out EASED!!
08 Dec 12 23:45
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Date Joined: 24 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 71 | Blogger: blundered 2 out EASED!!'s blog
Surely if you keep predicting the outcome of cards being turned over that makes it not random doesnt it? Perhaps its just me but does the software favour the player with most chips? How many times have you sat there with a pair of kinkles in your hand to find some fcker with a pair of bullets      now i no for a fact that im not alone in thinking that when you get dealt a pair of kings you straight away dont feel safe and fear that there are dark aces out there somewhere, It feels the same as playing roulette in the bookies on a fotb   than playing it down a casino or perhaps some of you out there feel its a 100% genuine and im talking chinese   but would like to no the views of others    cheers.

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Replies: 86
By:
chipfire227
When: 09 Dec 12 00:11
It's random. HTH.
By:
shudacuda
When: 09 Dec 12 04:34
If its so predictable,why do you lose?
By:
chipfire227
When: 09 Dec 12 10:31
I'm going to fold KK pre flop now if someone at the table has a bigger stack as they will have AA. Dunno why I hadn't considered this previously. OP has literally changed my life for the better.
By:
Santtu55
When: 09 Dec 12 13:56
This bigstack problem is also in fulltilt. It happens often.
By:
chipfire227
When: 09 Dec 12 16:23
[ ] Incredible scenes.
By:
youwillblucky
When: 09 Dec 12 20:02
pre generated , at times ,lol.
By:
jc30
When: 09 Dec 12 22:01
I can see this thread going somewhere, time to sit back, relax and watch the show. Popcorn pics anyone?? Laugh
By:
R0ykeane
When: 10 Dec 12 14:56
By:
chipfire227
When: 10 Dec 12 18:57
I have followed the OP's advice and started folding KK pre flop if I am not the biggest stack at the table. However following this logic to it's natural conclusion means that whatever hand I hold apart from AA will be dominated by the bigger stacks, so I now fold everything apart from AA pre flop, unless all of the people left to act have smaller stacks than me.

It took some adjusting to, but I now feel confident I am playing optimally having factored in the r1gg3d RNG.   

The OP should write a poker book IMHO. Anyone suggest a title for it ?
By:
Helmuthian Folds
When: 10 Dec 12 21:18
By:
hippie
When: 13 Dec 12 00:15

Can a computer generate a truly random number?

It depends what you mean by random…

“One thing that traditional computer systems aren’t good at is coin flipping,” says Steve Ward, Professor of Computer Science and Engineering at MIT’s Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. “They’re deterministic, which means that if you ask the same question you’ll get the same answer every time. In fact, such machines are specifically and carefully programmed to eliminate randomness in results. They do this by following rules and relying on algorithms when they compute.”

You can program a machine to generate what can be called “random” numbers, but the machine is always at the mercy of its programming. “On a completely deterministic machine you can’t generate anything you could really call a random sequence of numbers,” says Ward, “because the machine is following the same algorithm to generate them. Typically, that means it starts with a common ‘seed’ number and then follows a pattern.” The results may be sufficiently complex to make the pattern difficult to identify, but because it is ruled by a carefully defined and consistently repeated algorithm, the numbers it produces are not truly random. “They are what we call ‘pseudo-random’ numbers,” Ward says.

For most applications, a pseudo-random number is sufficient, he adds. “For example, if you want to do a random sampling of a large set of data, you’ll need numbers to feed into the program so that the samples are more or less evenly distributed. Using pseudo-random numbers is perfectly acceptable in this case because there’s no quantitative advantage in the degree of randomness.” Similarly, a CD player in “random” mode is probably really playing in pseudo-random mode, with a pattern that is discernible if you listen carefully enough.

Not all randomness is pseudo, however, says Ward. There are ways that machines can generate truly random numbers. And the importance of true randomness is not to be underestimated, he adds. “If you go to an online poker site, for example, and you know the algorithm and seed, you can write a program that will predict the cards that are going to be dealt.” Truly random numbers make such reverse engineering impossible, he adds. There are devices that generate numbers that claim to be truly random. They rely on unpredictable processes like thermal or atmospheric noise rather than human-defined patterns. The results might still be slightly biased towards higher numbers or even numbers, but they’re not generated by a deterministic algorithm. (A similar online solution is available at random.org.)—Jason M. Rubin

http://engineering.mit.edu/live/news/1753-can-a-computer-generate-a-truly-random-number


By:
R0ykeane
When: 13 Dec 12 12:42
Shocked
By:
Ovalman.
When: 13 Dec 12 19:45
Can you tell me how exactly that applies to online poker?
By:
chipfire227
When: 13 Dec 12 20:01
Mmm great, I've now got a migraine. Sad
By:
hippie
When: 14 Dec 12 14:39
If you read the article properly (even the last paragraph) it tells you exactly how that applies to online poker.
By:
fedddddddd uppppppppp
When: 14 Dec 12 15:32
There are devices that generate numbers that claim to be truly random. They rely on unpredictable processes like thermal or atmospheric noise rather than human-defined patterns.

I believe BENTFAIR / OFFGAME use the above...

Personally I still think its r i g g e d for the fishes

Grin
By:
Ovalman.
When: 14 Dec 12 17:17
If you don't know what card comes next then it doesn't matter if the RNG is a fixed pattern.

I have proof that the RNG is fair but I'm all ears if you can prove it otherwise.
By:
hippie
When: 14 Dec 12 18:26
If it's a fixed pattern then it is not generating random numbers (ergo it is not a RNG) but your proof of a predictable but fair RNG sounds interesting.

Do share.
By:
Ovalman.
When: 14 Dec 12 19:36
I'm not in the juiced brigade and I've never been in the juiced brigade. I've 300,000 hands stored in Holdem Manager, I ran the races report and lo and behold almost every all in situation matched as it should do ie. AA v any pocket pair is roughly 80% favourite, and hey presto they held up approximately 80% of every time they were all in. I can break down those stats further but I would imagine after 1,000,000 hands or 10 Million these numbers will become so close to the actual statistical norm that if it wasn't a fair RNG or a juiced RNG then my stats would pick up on it.

Just forget about the RNG. It's the same for everyone. It's impossible to predict the next sequence of numbers on the receiving end and the only way to hack the system is on the poker site's servers.  If you lose consistently then YOU are the problem. Not the RNG or your opponents or the poker gods in the sky but YOU.
By:
chipfire227
When: 14 Dec 12 20:41
“If you go to an online poker site, for example, and you know the algorithm and seed, you can write a program that will predict the cards that are going to be dealt.”

He doesn't and he hasn't ( nap )
By:
hippie
When: 14 Dec 12 22:05

Just forget about the RNG. It's the same for everyone. It's impossible to predict the next sequence of numbers on the receiving end and the only way to hack the system is on the poker site's servers.  If you lose consistently then YOU are the problem. Not the RNG or your opponents or the poker gods in the sky but YOU.


I agree (and I've just been bowled out of a tournament when my AA ran into a flush Laugh)

By:
hippie
When: 14 Dec 12 22:09
*pocket AA
By:
blundered 2 out EASED!!
When: 15 Dec 12 01:19

Dec 14, 2012 -- 4:09PM, hippie wrote:


*pocket AA


WHEN BOWLING OUT WAS IT TO  PLAYER WITH A BIGGER STACK?

By:
blundered 2 out EASED!!
When: 15 Dec 12 01:23

Dec 8, 2012 -- 10:34PM, shudacuda wrote:


If its so predictable,why do you lose?


Lose! who said i lose ?  and the reason for not winning is that its out of my hands and that i believe the random generator decides

By:
chipfire227
When: 15 Dec 12 18:25
[ x ] It's never their fault .
By:
youwillblucky
When: 16 Dec 12 22:53
in this day and age why would anyone assume that the cards are random ? In what way would that help betfairs profits ?
All poker sites are a business to make money , nothing more ,n nothing less ... they are what they are !
Make your own opinion ,lol
By:
George Bailey
When: 31 Dec 12 11:27

Dec 10, 2012 -- 12:57PM, chipfire227 wrote:


I have followed the OP's advice and started folding KK pre flop if I am not the biggest stack at the table. However following this logic to it's natural conclusion means that whatever hand I hold apart from AA will be dominated by the bigger stacks, so I now fold everything apart from AA pre flop, unless all of the people left to act have smaller stacks than me.It took some adjusting to, but I now feel confident I am playing optimally having factored in the r1gg3d RNG.   The OP should write a poker book IMHO. Anyone suggest a title for it ?


Texas Fold 'Em?

By:
chipfire227
When: 31 Dec 12 13:53
I think the policy of folding KK pre flop must even apply if you are level chips with your opponent :

TEXAS_HOLDEM, NO_LIMIT, T5-298538439-1
played at "Table #1" for USD TC from 2012-12-31 13:48 until 2012-12-31 13:49



Seat 5: chipfire227 (1,500 in chips) 
Seat 8: HajduJan2 (1,500 in chips) 



ANTES/BLINDS


ANTES/BLINDS
HajduJan2 posts small blind (10), chipfire227 posts big blind (20),

PRE-FLOP
HajduJan2 raises to 60, chipfire227 raises to 180, HajduJan2 calls 180.

FLOP [board cards: 5D,9S,8D]
chipfire227 bets 180, HajduJan2 raises to 1,320 and is all-in, chipfire227 calls 1,320 and is all-in.

TURN [board cards: 5D,9S,8D,2H]


RIVER [board cards: 5D,9S,8D,2H,7C]


SHOWDOWN
HajduJan2 shows [ 5S,7S ]
chipfire227 shows [ KS,KD ]
HajduJan2 wins 3,000. Sad
By:
casemoney
When: 31 Dec 12 18:19
It is ramdom 5% ers randomly river 50 % 0f the time ,never seen so many short stacks wiped by rubbish in my life ...

A true reflection of the site is the amount of people who are regulary involved with shxt hands ,they cant all be fish ,can they ?
By:
Ovalman.
When: 31 Dec 12 18:26
Read "The Poker Mindset", best book I read in 2012, it will improve your game immensely.
By:
chipfire227
When: 31 Dec 12 18:37
Any 2 suited is the way forward :

TEXAS_HOLDEM, NO_LIMIT, T5-298567144-2
played at "Table #1" for USD TC from 2012-12-31 16:50 until 2012-12-31 16:51



Seat 1: olivier451 (1,530 in chips) 
Seat 3: chipfire227 (1,500 in chips) 
Seat 4: lostkiddo2 (1,500 in chips) 
Seat 5: Kooyote (1,500 in chips) 
Seat 8: mixos_84 (1,490 in chips) 
Seat 10: player1936 (1,480 in chips) 



ANTES/BLINDS
player1936 posts small blind (10), olivier451 posts big blind (20),

PRE-FLOP
chipfire227 raises to 50, lostkiddo2 folds, Kooyote folds, mixos_84 raises to 80, player1936 folds, olivier451 folds, chipfire227 calls 80.

FLOP [board cards: 7C,AS,TC]
chipfire227 checks, mixos_84 bets 40, chipfire227 calls 40.

TURN [board cards: 7C,AS,TC,2C]
chipfire227 checks, mixos_84 bets 270, chipfire227 calls 270.

RIVER [board cards: 7C,AS,TC,2C,6H]
chipfire227 bets 250, mixos_84 raises to 600, chipfire227 raises to 1,110 and is all-in, mixos_84 calls 1,100 and is all-in.

SHOWDOWN
chipfire227 shows [ QC,KC ]
mixos_84 mucks cards [ AH,AC ]
chipfire227 wins 3,010.
By:
chipfire227
When: 31 Dec 12 18:40
More totally random  shyte from BF $20 STT land :

TEXAS_HOLDEM, NO_LIMIT, T5-298527744-4
played at "Table #1" for USD TC from 2012-12-31 12:25 until 2012-12-31 12:25



Seat 2: sttass (1,310 in chips) 
Seat 4: marksomm (1,550 in chips) 
Seat 5: OUKB22 (1,480 in chips) 
Seat 6: dub-kings (1,460 in chips) 
Seat 9: chipfire227 (1,710 in chips) 
Seat 10: robrat7777 (1,490 in chips) 



ANTES/BLINDS
OUKB22 posts small blind (10), dub-kings posts big blind (20),

PRE-FLOP
chipfire227 raises to 50, robrat7777 folds, sttass raises to 150, marksomm folds, OUKB22 folds, dub-kings folds, chipfire227 calls 150.

FLOP [board cards: AH,JH,4S]
chipfire227 checks, sttass bets 150, chipfire227 raises to 300, sttass raises to 450, chipfire227 raises to 1,560 and is all-in, sttass calls 1,160 and is all-in.

TURN [board cards: AH,JH,4S,7D]


RIVER [board cards: AH,JH,4S,7D,7C]


SHOWDOWN
chipfire227 shows [ KC,AS ]
sttass shows [ KS,TD ]
chipfire227 wins 2,650.
By:
Irish_Celtic
When: 02 Jan 13 20:20
It dont change the fact that the guy is right. Big stack wipes out everything that calls late in tournaments. If you cant see that then you are blind or have an agenda.HTH
By:
chipfire227
When: 02 Jan 13 21:18
I could post 1000 hand histories that proves otherwise, but what's the point ? Losing players always blame the RNG. Grin
By:
Shaky
When: 03 Jan 13 12:32
it's true, big stacks always win vs all-ins late in tournaments. Whenever I get the chip lead, I shove every hand and have won my last 1747 tournaments using this method. thankfully, nobody else has cottoned on to this trick. I suspect I will soon own all the money that exists in the online poker world.
By:
Irish_Celtic
When: 03 Jan 13 13:49
Its juiced to the hilt ,get over it.
By:
chipfire227
When: 03 Jan 13 15:17
Shaky • January 3, 2013 12:32 PM GMT
it's true, big stacks always win vs all-ins late in tournaments. Whenever I get the chip lead, I shove every hand and have won my last 1747 tournaments using this method. thankfully, nobody else has cottoned on to this trick. I suspect I will soon own all the money that exists in the online poker world. LaughLaugh
By:
Irish_Celtic
When: 03 Jan 13 15:38
Shaky and chip can test the theory when they are the only 2 left .People leaving in droves.Says it all really.
By:
Shaky
When: 03 Jan 13 16:42
seems strange to leave just when you have noticed a method of guaranteeing victory.
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