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I was playing a live 100£ freezeout last night. I got knocked out in 3rd and then watched the heads up.
The blinds had reached 2k-4k, player a had around 60k and player b 40k. Player B was on the sb and declared raise, immediately and before player b could put the chips into the middle or declare how much the raise was, Player A declared all-in.
According to local rules this left player b with two options, min raise to 8k and pass or call the all in. He min raised and passed. An argument insued about player a acting too quickly, my point was he acted too quickly in order to gain an advantage. If player b had of raised around 15k and player a had of pushed all in it would have been an easy call for player b. Acting early gave player a fold equity that he wouldnt have got had he waited.
It later transpired that player a knew this and had in fact been a blind man when he went all in.
Is this a little below the belt but acceptable?
Is it totally unacceptable and unethical?
If this had of happened in the world series or another big tourny what would the tourny director or dealer done?
The blinds had reached 2k-4k, player a had around 60k and player b 40k. Player B was on the sb and declared raise, immediately and before player b could put the chips into the middle or declare how much the raise was, Player A declared all-in.
According to local rules this left player b with two options, min raise to 8k and pass or call the all in. He min raised and passed. An argument insued about player a acting too quickly, my point was he acted too quickly in order to gain an advantage. If player b had of raised around 15k and player a had of pushed all in it would have been an easy call for player b. Acting early gave player a fold equity that he wouldnt have got had he waited.
It later transpired that player a knew this and had in fact been a blind man when he went all in.
Is this a little below the belt but acceptable?
Is it totally unacceptable and unethical?
If this had of happened in the world series or another big tourny what would the tourny director or dealer done?
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This is a really good post.
Hard for me to make a judgement although it has certainly made me think.
IMO Players A has operated within the rules and there is not a lot the dealer or TD could do about it apart from maybe warn him about his future conduct.
Player A is being unethical and it is not a stunt I would pull but Player B also has to take some of them blame as he doesn't really need to declare raise heads up and could just have pushed his raise across the line.
As I said a difficult one.
Hard for me to make a judgement although it has certainly made me think.
IMO Players A has operated within the rules and there is not a lot the dealer or TD could do about it apart from maybe warn him about his future conduct.
Player A is being unethical and it is not a stunt I would pull but Player B also has to take some of them blame as he doesn't really need to declare raise heads up and could just have pushed his raise across the line.
As I said a difficult one.
but Player B also has to take some of them blame as he doesn't really need to declare raise heads up and could just have pushed his raise across the line.
Is that standard when HU or something? Never knew that - shows how often I've got to being HU lol
Is that standard when HU or something? Never knew that - shows how often I've got to being HU lol
Up here Trimdon Law (paragraph 4) applys :
In such instance Player A would keep chips. Player B is at liberty to kick f*** out of him afterwards in car park.
In such instance Player A would keep chips. Player B is at liberty to kick f*** out of him afterwards in car park.
Player A acted 'Out of turn' as player B had not finished anouncing his raise... Thus all options given were correct but the TD should give player A a warning for acting out of turn.....Do it again and recieve a time penalty that would cost him the tourny. It wouldn't happen again.
For what it's worth this situation happens frequently and is rarely done as an angle shoot. People just get excited
For what it's worth this situation happens frequently and is rarely done as an angle shoot. People just get excited
player a has'nt done a lot wrong.
player b has the choice of calling or folding after min raise.
Its pretty standard play in any run of the mill card room.
Both players probably had jack s h it anyway.
player b has the choice of calling or folding after min raise.
Its pretty standard play in any run of the mill card room.
Both players probably had jack s h it anyway.
I n fact few months ago i was heads up in local casino and the other player kept acting out of turn and despite a warning ,he did it again.
Card room supervisor gave him a 1 round penalty (2 hands) but it was nt an angle shoot,he just got overly excited.
Card room supervisor gave him a 1 round penalty (2 hands) but it was nt an angle shoot,he just got overly excited.
as usual JPJ is correct
one point though to HM and Waheey, you dont have to announce raise at any time really as long as your chips you push forward are multiple ones and at least 50% above the standard call total , that is enough to constitute a raise irrespective of wether its heads up or not
although its good practise to actually announce a raise to avoid confusion
in the case given player A has acted out of turn and as pointed out a raise must be put in - player B can make this raise whatever he wants from min raise to all in
player A`s declaration of all in stands despite being over eager and he should be advised to wait until the raise is complete in future or he may face a penalty , rarely seen this used as an angle shoot and in fact player A is actually putting himself at a disadvantage if player B is stealing with junk,as it allows him to get away with a min raise when he probably would have put more chips in had Player A not not acted in haste
one point though to HM and Waheey, you dont have to announce raise at any time really as long as your chips you push forward are multiple ones and at least 50% above the standard call total , that is enough to constitute a raise irrespective of wether its heads up or not
although its good practise to actually announce a raise to avoid confusion
in the case given player A has acted out of turn and as pointed out a raise must be put in - player B can make this raise whatever he wants from min raise to all in
player A`s declaration of all in stands despite being over eager and he should be advised to wait until the raise is complete in future or he may face a penalty , rarely seen this used as an angle shoot and in fact player A is actually putting himself at a disadvantage if player B is stealing with junk,as it allows him to get away with a min raise when he probably would have put more chips in had Player A not not acted in haste
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