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As you may or may not be aware myself and Helmuthian Folds are going to that London in a few weeks to speak to senior people within Betfair to put across the concerns of the sites poker players. We fully accept that a lot of people are now very cynical about this process, myself included, but we have been asked to gather opinions from those using the site.
We need initially to put across the 5 main gripes that people have. Some things are obvious, such as reliability of the site, customer service, collusion/bots, things still not being done with the lobby that were requested 12 months ago like player find and geographical locations.
Obviously theres other not so obvious stuff like the Essence/Rakeback/Players Club, late registration for Mtt's etc.
If anyone who still cares wants to leave comments over the next 2 weeks myself and HF will try and knock them into some kind of order, then go and ask the questions on your behalf. What we want to avoid though if possible are comments such as "don't bother, yr wasting your time, the sites bent etc " which dont really add anything.
All I can say from mine and Daves ( HF) point of view is that we will be going down there with an open mind, we will be asking the questions you want asking, and if they fob us off with a load of horsesh1t we will come back on here and be honest about it. It's an eight hour round trip for me and I'm certainly not going to go down there and pull any punches.
We need initially to put across the 5 main gripes that people have. Some things are obvious, such as reliability of the site, customer service, collusion/bots, things still not being done with the lobby that were requested 12 months ago like player find and geographical locations.
Obviously theres other not so obvious stuff like the Essence/Rakeback/Players Club, late registration for Mtt's etc.
If anyone who still cares wants to leave comments over the next 2 weeks myself and HF will try and knock them into some kind of order, then go and ask the questions on your behalf. What we want to avoid though if possible are comments such as "don't bother, yr wasting your time, the sites bent etc " which dont really add anything.
All I can say from mine and Daves ( HF) point of view is that we will be going down there with an open mind, we will be asking the questions you want asking, and if they fob us off with a load of horsesh1t we will come back on here and be honest about it. It's an eight hour round trip for me and I'm certainly not going to go down there and pull any punches.
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Two things:
1. When is the new, improved mtt leaderboard that we were promised coming back?
2. How long do I have to stay at Master level to collect my players club benefits?
Thank you.
1. When is the new, improved mtt leaderboard that we were promised coming back?
2. How long do I have to stay at Master level to collect my players club benefits?
Thank you.
BetfairpokerPR can I ask why my post was removed ? What is there somethings that questions can't be asked about ( not a Q and A session then more a BF stunt )so how many pieces of silver did it take chip :) ?
@garybet
He did state 'if possible' so thats why i said it because it wasnt possible
He did state 'if possible' so thats why i said it because it wasnt possible
Of course I can understand people not caring and being cynical, but if you just want to be abusive, there are a multitude of other threads on here where you can do this. [;)]
@ singlecask
Both myself and HF were given assurances that no subject would be off-limits, so it's worrying that stuff is being removed before I've even had chance to read it ! If people want to send me stuff on here via PM I'm more than happy to read it.
Think it was Judas that got the thirty pieces of silver to grass the big fella up, so I'm a bit confused by that reference. I'm taking a days unpaid leave and spending 8 hours in the middle of summer on trains/tubes so I can ask senior staff to their faces why the site isnt doing what it should be doing.Moaning about it on here and emailing customer service has got me nowhere. And yes, I may well be wasting my time and money ,but at least I will be venting my spleen at the right/responsible people, rather than at some poor bod in a call centre.
@ singlecask
Both myself and HF were given assurances that no subject would be off-limits, so it's worrying that stuff is being removed before I've even had chance to read it ! If people want to send me stuff on here via PM I'm more than happy to read it.
Think it was Judas that got the thirty pieces of silver to grass the big fella up, so I'm a bit confused by that reference. I'm taking a days unpaid leave and spending 8 hours in the middle of summer on trains/tubes so I can ask senior staff to their faces why the site isnt doing what it should be doing.Moaning about it on here and emailing customer service has got me nowhere. And yes, I may well be wasting my time and money ,but at least I will be venting my spleen at the right/responsible people, rather than at some poor bod in a call centre.
Ask for some super turbo tournaments like they had in the old betfair and also more guaranteed tournaments throughout the day. Tournament times are probably good for UK customers but useless for anyone in Asia, Australia, Canada or South America. So consider tournaments that cater to all parts of the world not just the UK.
single cask - no idea why your post was removed
I didn't see it.
You can send it to me via prteam@betfair.com and I can ask the moderators how it broke the rules
I didn't see it.
You can send it to me via prteam@betfair.com and I can ask the moderators how it broke the rules
Most of the major changes that people want are down to ongame obviously,but if you are seeing the top man and not just a bull sh** pr person a relevant question would be with all the complaining on the forum (and everyone cant be wrong) about poor customer services,non updated leaderboards and promotions that even there own people cant work out so have to cancel.Is there somthing being done to bring in staff that can make this work or if not why not
No offence meant to your good self bf poker pr you seem one of only ones who know what day it is i was meaning a pr/spin doctor on high who im sure will deny any problems and tell them have they tried deleting their cookies and temporary internet files.
Poor response from Customer Service and promotions/leaderboards that dont function or are badly thought out would certainly be near the top of my list
I did not delete your post.
It obviously contained banned words /obscenities. Maybe you could construct a post that is critical that isn't full of hate. I am not going to respond to your point about Random Number Generator..... mainly because I don't like your attitude!
[:p]
It obviously contained banned words /obscenities. Maybe you could construct a post that is critical that isn't full of hate. I am not going to respond to your point about Random Number Generator..... mainly because I don't like your attitude!
[:p]
I will not rise to your bait. I assume your post was deleted for obscenities since your post describing it had quite a few (unnecessary) within it and this is not allowed on our forum.
As I have stated numerous times there is no benefit to us a company to rig our deck.
We have our RNG certificate on the site and on request.
It is authenticated monthly by 3rd party auditors.
If you don't believe it then there is nothing more I can do.
As I have stated numerous times there is no benefit to us a company to rig our deck.
We have our RNG certificate on the site and on request.
It is authenticated monthly by 3rd party auditors.
If you don't believe it then there is nothing more I can do.
chipfire227
02 Aug 11 17:58
Joined:
11 Nov 07
| Topic/replies: 1,727 | Blogger: chipfire227's blog
Of course I can understand people not caring and being cynical, but if you just want to be abusive, there are a multitude of other threads on here where you can do this.
and a mega multitude of same threads as this (Q's and A's).
02 Aug 11 17:58
Joined:
11 Nov 07
| Topic/replies: 1,727 | Blogger: chipfire227's blog
Of course I can understand people not caring and being cynical, but if you just want to be abusive, there are a multitude of other threads on here where you can do this.
and a mega multitude of same threads as this (Q's and A's).
Poor response from Customer Service and promotions/leaderboards that dont function or are badly thought out would certainly be near the top of my list
On Weds I tried to redeem my store points for a $5.50 tournament ticket. My store points were deducted but no ticket was issued. This was at approx. 10.45am. At 3pm I phoned customer services, who confirmed that the points had been deducted but no ticket had been issued and they would pass this on to the relevant department to be looked into.
Yesterday around about this time I think, I still have no ticket, so I phone Betfair. Whoever it was I was speaking to, Phil I think, but I'm not 100% sure, confirmed that the points had been deducted but no ticket had been issued. He said he would look into it and get back to me, via e-mail, not phone, as I rest in the afternoon as I work evening/nights.
Shortly afterwards he phones (fair enough) to ask me how I tried to redeem the ticket - I think meaning in browser or downloaded software. I said I couldn't remember.
It is now Friday and I know it's only $5.50, but I still haven't had my ticket issued or received an e-mail about it.
Any thoughts BetfairPokerPR?
On Weds I tried to redeem my store points for a $5.50 tournament ticket. My store points were deducted but no ticket was issued. This was at approx. 10.45am. At 3pm I phoned customer services, who confirmed that the points had been deducted but no ticket had been issued and they would pass this on to the relevant department to be looked into.
Yesterday around about this time I think, I still have no ticket, so I phone Betfair. Whoever it was I was speaking to, Phil I think, but I'm not 100% sure, confirmed that the points had been deducted but no ticket had been issued. He said he would look into it and get back to me, via e-mail, not phone, as I rest in the afternoon as I work evening/nights.
Shortly afterwards he phones (fair enough) to ask me how I tried to redeem the ticket - I think meaning in browser or downloaded software. I said I couldn't remember.
It is now Friday and I know it's only $5.50, but I still haven't had my ticket issued or received an e-mail about it.
Any thoughts BetfairPokerPR?
Unfortunately I cannot issue tickets however I have forwarded your post to our head of Help Desk and told him to action it.
Hopefully this will get resolved asap.
Hopefully this will get resolved asap.
Thanks, but I think you're missing the whole point. What is the point of me or anyone else phoning customer services if they never resolve things? It has taken me, writing the above, on this thread, to (potentially) get the issue resolved. Ask them (customer services) what they have got to say about it?
Do not fear McCoy I have also asked why this happened in the first place.......all our calls are logged so we can see who you spoke to /actions taken (or not taken in this case!) etc.
McCoy is not concerned at all about the $5.50 ticket.
It is the "mission impossible" aspect of how it gets resolved that is driving him nuts. This should have been resolved with the very first phone call made.
It is the "mission impossible" aspect of how it gets resolved that is driving him nuts. This should have been resolved with the very first phone call made.
Exactly Dinos. I wrote the thread to highlight the problems we all seem to have or have had with the helpdesk.
I have my $5.50 ticket now, so thank you BFPokerPR.
I have my $5.50 ticket now, so thank you BFPokerPR.
Klup - not as straightforward as that.
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
BetfairPokerPR
It needs to be straightforward. A regular client like mccoy raises an issue relating to $5.50 - resolve it for him immediately. Dont ask him to chase a $5.50 ticket. If he inadvertedly made a mistake, send him an email after you have done the investigation behind the scene and leave the $5.50 ticket in his account as a good will gesture.
This type of senario cost you far more in terms of goodwill.
It needs to be straightforward. A regular client like mccoy raises an issue relating to $5.50 - resolve it for him immediately. Dont ask him to chase a $5.50 ticket. If he inadvertedly made a mistake, send him an email after you have done the investigation behind the scene and leave the $5.50 ticket in his account as a good will gesture.
This type of senario cost you far more in terms of goodwill.
the point mccoy is makin this happens with almost allsimple enquires. u get promised either call/ email backs and they seldom happen, even for the most basic of enquiries.
the point mccoy is makin this happens with almost allsimple enquires. u get promised either call/ email backs and they seldom happen, even for the most basic of enquiries.
i thought i should repeat what gnasher said, incase you didnt understand him. figured my english accent is easier for others to understand [;)]
The unthinkable's happened. I actually feel sorry for BetfairPokerPr.
none of this is directed at betfairpokerpr and he/she knows it.
Klup - not as straightforward as that.
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
Klup - not as straightforward as that.
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
Tell me when and where this ticket was used. Like I have said to you before no ticket was ever issued. If you look at my account statement since wednesday I have played one $5.50 game, the 3.30 mtt turbo which I PAID FOR!
Who's making up all this nonsense? How many times do I have to tell you? No ticket was ever issued, that's why I phoned, then phoned again and then wrote my post.
And if it's true what you're saying - that the ticket was issued after the 1st call - then why didn't the guy say this when I made the second call?
I'm absolutely furious about this. NO TICKET WAS EVER ISSUED! Do you understand that! IT NEVER APPEARED ON MY FOYER!
No please sort thos out BFpoker PR. Have you got the right poker alias? I play under "rockme."
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
Tell me when and where this ticket was used. Like I have said to you before no ticket was ever issued. If you look at my account statement since wednesday I have played one $5.50 game, the 3.30 mtt turbo which I PAID FOR!
Who's making up all this nonsense? How many times do I have to tell you? No ticket was ever issued, that's why I phoned, then phoned again and then wrote my post.
And if it's true what you're saying - that the ticket was issued after the 1st call - then why didn't the guy say this when I made the second call?
I'm absolutely furious about this. NO TICKET WAS EVER ISSUED! Do you understand that! IT NEVER APPEARED ON MY FOYER!
No please sort thos out BFpoker PR. Have you got the right poker alias? I play under "rockme."
Going to bed. Really fed up about this. Wish I'd never brought the issue up on here now. Don't know if someone is feeling guilty but you've now issued me with 2 $5.50 tickets - one of which I've just used. One more time: NO $5.50 TICKET WAS ISSUED AND DID NOT APPEAR ON MY FOYER!(until now that is.)
If I felt the RNG was in some way corrupted I wouldnt dream of using the site. It's not like there are not others out there.
There are certainly games on the netwowrk that are, or have been, very,very, corrupt, and that is why I very rarely play certain STTS on the site. I have raised this with Customer Service via e-mail, which got me absolutely nowhere, I have also emailed Betfair PR, who said he had raised it with Ongame. This also got me nowhere. I now fully intend to hand whoever is at this session a list of players I believe were banned from the site for colluding, a list of games/dates where I played against these fellas, and ask why I havent been contacted, several months down the line, for either an explanation or my money back.
Totally agree with Klup, gnash, and rockme, ringing Customer Service is pointless, and even e-mailing, which was once sometimes worthwhile, is now pointless. All they ever do is tell you it has been passed to the relevant department.
There are certainly games on the netwowrk that are, or have been, very,very, corrupt, and that is why I very rarely play certain STTS on the site. I have raised this with Customer Service via e-mail, which got me absolutely nowhere, I have also emailed Betfair PR, who said he had raised it with Ongame. This also got me nowhere. I now fully intend to hand whoever is at this session a list of players I believe were banned from the site for colluding, a list of games/dates where I played against these fellas, and ask why I havent been contacted, several months down the line, for either an explanation or my money back.
Totally agree with Klup, gnash, and rockme, ringing Customer Service is pointless, and even e-mailing, which was once sometimes worthwhile, is now pointless. All they ever do is tell you it has been passed to the relevant department.
BetfairPokerPR, Apart from the countless people that stopped playing here and took their money/services elsewhere due to the unstability and numerous software bugs (me being one of them), the utter useless Customer Service staff are imo, the next worst reason why countless others have also left and gone elsewhere. Presuming McCoy Carp isn't mistaken/deluded/making his story up which he probably isn't, then this is the utter cr ap your customers (us) have had to put up with for a very very very very long time.
Despite telling you (the company) God knows how many times either on here/other Q&A Sessions, nothing has changed at all. AT ALL. AT ALL. Can you (the company) honestly not flaming read this when so many people say it so many times? Oh wait - you can? So one thing is left - you actually don't give a sh it ENOUGH about your customers to actually to do anything about it.
How you have any players that are still here from more than 12 months ago, let alone 2/3 years ago, is totally beyond me. You (BetfairPokerPR) are just the latest in a LONG line of Betfair representatives that has been on here (the forum) promising the world and coming out with statements like "just give me/us a chance, this time things will change" - have you ever heard of The Boy Who Cried Wolf!?!
I would love to know how many people have actually left this site altogether. If it wasn't for the presumably good marketing to get new players interested, I reckon the poker side of your company would've folded about a year ago. IMO doing the whole HF & Chipfire thing is a totally laughable exercise (GL to you both for going though). Why do you need two representatives of the forum to go all the way to wherever they're going to give you a list of things wrong when you have been given this list umpteen times by umpteen people in umpteen Q&A Sessions?
I hope you get it sorted for the people who play on your site anyway as they deserve the best after putting up with so much cr@p on here for so long, sadly I fear that's a very long shot judging by everything that's already happened....
Despite telling you (the company) God knows how many times either on here/other Q&A Sessions, nothing has changed at all. AT ALL. AT ALL. Can you (the company) honestly not flaming read this when so many people say it so many times? Oh wait - you can? So one thing is left - you actually don't give a sh it ENOUGH about your customers to actually to do anything about it.
How you have any players that are still here from more than 12 months ago, let alone 2/3 years ago, is totally beyond me. You (BetfairPokerPR) are just the latest in a LONG line of Betfair representatives that has been on here (the forum) promising the world and coming out with statements like "just give me/us a chance, this time things will change" - have you ever heard of The Boy Who Cried Wolf!?!
I would love to know how many people have actually left this site altogether. If it wasn't for the presumably good marketing to get new players interested, I reckon the poker side of your company would've folded about a year ago. IMO doing the whole HF & Chipfire thing is a totally laughable exercise (GL to you both for going though). Why do you need two representatives of the forum to go all the way to wherever they're going to give you a list of things wrong when you have been given this list umpteen times by umpteen people in umpteen Q&A Sessions?
I hope you get it sorted for the people who play on your site anyway as they deserve the best after putting up with so much cr@p on here for so long, sadly I fear that's a very long shot judging by everything that's already happened....
Entertaining thread to be sure. I play or have played over 3 or 4 ongame sites...and I dunno, I kinda feel bad that my only real gripe is how long its taking them to implement separate loss limits between sports book and poker. Seems really quite simple.
Obviously there are a ton of other issues but in my experience the difference between betfairs customer service a number the larger ongame skins really isnt as large as the negative feedback would have you believe imho. I can only think of one notable exception.
In any case, may the gods be with you brave representatives.
p.s. Mccoy...have a lilt my friend. Life is too short.
Obviously there are a ton of other issues but in my experience the difference between betfairs customer service a number the larger ongame skins really isnt as large as the negative feedback would have you believe imho. I can only think of one notable exception.
In any case, may the gods be with you brave representatives.
p.s. Mccoy...have a lilt my friend. Life is too short.
just come back to this site a few months ago for the poker and to be honest I think every site has the same problems with cheats and it is how the site deals with it or are seen to deal with it makes the difference. I have always thought that BF hide behind bullsh't and do not want to admit that cheating does exist! Why not try being honest and show that you have taken action and refund the victims! why not ask them for some PROOF to show that they are dealing with this problem and restore some faith in the company. As for the RNG I was one of the doubters but as experience teaches you anything can happen and you always think that a bad beat is a fix! As a man once said 1000 to 1 shot comes up 99% of the time! [;)] PR well that is all about good management and good staff take what you want from that! all in all I am happy with with the poker just now as I am winning for the first time ever [:o][;)] mind you once normal business resumes you will hear me shouting about the fixed RNG and how everyone is cheating me [:p] Good luck guys but I do think it is a complete waste of time and nothing more than a PR stunt for BF by agreeing to meet you.
The loss limits are interesting. Before the changeover a sports bettor could restrict how much he could lose playing poker and vice versa. After the switch the sports bettor still had this option, but suddenly the poker player could no longer set a loss limit for his sports betting.
Somebody, somewhere, must have sat down and decided to make this change, presumably someone at BETFAIR who didn't want winning poker players withdrawing money, rather than reinvesting it or at least having the temptation of reinvesting it sports betting.
Obviously it is in BETFAIRS interest to have the money of its customers continuosly turning over, but it does cast a shadow over its committment to Gamcare that its customers playing a game of skill on its site are STILL unable to set a loss limit for their gambling.
Several of us asked for the loss limit to be re-introduced 12 months ago. We were told 12 months ago it would be re-introduced. It hasn't been. Why ?
Somebody, somewhere, must have sat down and decided to make this change, presumably someone at BETFAIR who didn't want winning poker players withdrawing money, rather than reinvesting it or at least having the temptation of reinvesting it sports betting.
Obviously it is in BETFAIRS interest to have the money of its customers continuosly turning over, but it does cast a shadow over its committment to Gamcare that its customers playing a game of skill on its site are STILL unable to set a loss limit for their gambling.
Several of us asked for the loss limit to be re-introduced 12 months ago. We were told 12 months ago it would be re-introduced. It hasn't been. Why ?
it just amazes me that anybody plays here anymore tbh
the same posters make the same points every month or two
like the sports betting side the only way they will ever potentially listen is if you walk away
the same posters make the same points every month or two
like the sports betting side the only way they will ever potentially listen is if you walk away
Thrappers / Chip
I understand the principle behind the essence c ake back system but am concerned re the lack of transparency.
Could you please ask exactly how it works, how would we go about checking if we thought it was wrong and how BF would prove the figures were correct?
Thanks
I understand the principle behind the essence c ake back system but am concerned re the lack of transparency.
Could you please ask exactly how it works, how would we go about checking if we thought it was wrong and how BF would prove the figures were correct?
Thanks
I think even BF have finally twigged that their core UK customer base has upped and gone.
Last June I played over 400 STTS on BF, this June I played 2. I haven't played any so far this month.
Last June I played over 400 STTS on BF, this June I played 2. I haven't played any so far this month.
IMHO the move to ongame signalled that BF no longer took poker seriously as a business (too hard to get right, needs too much investment, whatever). They now just sit back and take a percentage of ongames percentage, without the hassle of trying to make a dodgy piece of software stable. (I did lol at the use of pokerchimps as a tourney password recently).
My question is simple.....are BF serious about poker, and how have their actions over the past year backed up the answer to that question. Or do they think that they can be a big player in online poker thru ongame? And if so, why do they think "their core UK customer base has upped and gone"?
My question is simple.....are BF serious about poker, and how have their actions over the past year backed up the answer to that question. Or do they think that they can be a big player in online poker thru ongame? And if so, why do they think "their core UK customer base has upped and gone"?
chipfire227
Totally agree with Klup, gnash, and rockme, ringing Customer Service is pointless, and even e-mailing, which was once sometimes worthwhile, is now pointless. All they ever do is tell you it has been passed to the relevant department.
Therein lies the nub. Its really cheap to provide monkeys as your primary interface to us dumb customers, and its within the skillset of a monkey to figure out which "knowledge worker" should be dealing with various types of problem, and passing them to "the relevant department". However you get all the noise associated with poor customer service as above.
Its not so cheap to have experts who "can do" as that primary interface, but you get stuff fixed there and then, first time, and significantly higher customer satisfaction.
Monkeys get paid peanuts, and never stick around long enough to become expert.....indeed they may be discouraged from doing so as fixing problems is not their job.
My question is, is BF happy with the cheap monkey model, and low associated levels of satisfaction, or would it prefer higher levels of satisfaction from the more expensive model that its customers seems to be demanding.
I think that not having the search option for other players has eased the bullying and has made it not so clique which i personally prefer.I feel if you want to chat to people on a personal basis you can use the forum and even private message them if need be.Also you have the communial chat box to have a chat to others on the main poker site.I feel some people are very nasty and use the search option to intimidate others and put them off their game.
I think it is totally ridiculous that you can not block people from chatting to you at a table because the dialogue always appears above the person chatting.This should be sorted out as a priority imo .
Bring back the the final tables which the old software had.This made the table change colour and when somebody was eliminated there was a 'BOOM' noise.I thought that was great and i wish i would be re-instated.
I also like the knocking noise with the old software/platform when you checked,i miss that also.
I find the new platform a bit tinny and some of the noises like the money etc to be a bit annoying.Pokerstars is the best site on-line imo .The timing the whole set up and many things can be learnt from this tremendous site.
Good luck at the tables
I think it is totally ridiculous that you can not block people from chatting to you at a table because the dialogue always appears above the person chatting.This should be sorted out as a priority imo .
Bring back the the final tables which the old software had.This made the table change colour and when somebody was eliminated there was a 'BOOM' noise.I thought that was great and i wish i would be re-instated.
I also like the knocking noise with the old software/platform when you checked,i miss that also.
I find the new platform a bit tinny and some of the noises like the money etc to be a bit annoying.Pokerstars is the best site on-line imo .The timing the whole set up and many things can be learnt from this tremendous site.
Good luck at the tables
My 5 main gripes:
1. Reliability. Why should only this site boot out whilst playing or freeze and needs rebooting. Does not happen when I play on other sites (Poker Stars/Party/Paradise as well as some others I have tried).
2. No basic counting functions from software on tables (hands played/raised etc). Basic functionality on other sites.
3. No table waiting facility (on cash) or on alternatives on (STTs).
4. Late registration on MTTs would be good (can't rely on work/tube/trains/buses).
5. Publicised direct line for Poker customer service (and then they need to know what they are looking at for the query).
1. Reliability. Why should only this site boot out whilst playing or freeze and needs rebooting. Does not happen when I play on other sites (Poker Stars/Party/Paradise as well as some others I have tried).
2. No basic counting functions from software on tables (hands played/raised etc). Basic functionality on other sites.
3. No table waiting facility (on cash) or on alternatives on (STTs).
4. Late registration on MTTs would be good (can't rely on work/tube/trains/buses).
5. Publicised direct line for Poker customer service (and then they need to know what they are looking at for the query).
1st and formost thing we know to know is bf poker staying with ongame, because if not most of this exercise is totally pointless.
if so, waiting lists are never gonna happen as its there policy not to have them for the reasons explained prevoiusly.
on the poker software , i would put player locations as 1 of the top things to do , for a few reasons, 1 espically it would decrease the chance of collusion and would give many of players peace of mind.
i would also put late reg onto the mtts.
i would also form/provide a dedicated poker customer service number mainly for poker reletated quieries.
most others sites provide a live chat feature, bf used tohave this,im not sure why it was discontinued?
this last request is maYBE OF Self INTREST, BUT I WOULD STRIVE TOPROVIDE MORE UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON LEADERBOARDS/CAKE RACES.
these really should b updated at least twice daily.
during the last cake race the points were updated at least every 5minutes for the majority of the 8week run,thouth the stt 1 it was a struggle for it to b done daily.
if so, waiting lists are never gonna happen as its there policy not to have them for the reasons explained prevoiusly.
on the poker software , i would put player locations as 1 of the top things to do , for a few reasons, 1 espically it would decrease the chance of collusion and would give many of players peace of mind.
i would also put late reg onto the mtts.
i would also form/provide a dedicated poker customer service number mainly for poker reletated quieries.
most others sites provide a live chat feature, bf used tohave this,im not sure why it was discontinued?
this last request is maYBE OF Self INTREST, BUT I WOULD STRIVE TOPROVIDE MORE UP TO DATE INFORMATION ON LEADERBOARDS/CAKE RACES.
these really should b updated at least twice daily.
during the last cake race the points were updated at least every 5minutes for the majority of the 8week run,thouth the stt 1 it was a struggle for it to b done daily.
We need to wrap this up within the next 3 or 4 days to allow me and HF a day or two to put together a list of questions to submit by Monday.
Broadly speaking I think we can lump promotions/offers/leaderboards/rakeback/Essence together as one topic.
Likewise updates to the software can include late registration/geographical location/player search/ loss limits/basic functionality.
Cheating/collusion/bots/site reliability likewise can be covered as one topic.
Customer service/the relationship with Ongame/plans for improvements can be lumped together.
Have I missed anything ?
Broadly speaking I think we can lump promotions/offers/leaderboards/rakeback/Essence together as one topic.
Likewise updates to the software can include late registration/geographical location/player search/ loss limits/basic functionality.
Cheating/collusion/bots/site reliability likewise can be covered as one topic.
Customer service/the relationship with Ongame/plans for improvements can be lumped together.
Have I missed anything ?
Yes Chipfire you missed - 'You should be able to block somebodies chat'.
I think that can be covered in software updates. You used to be able to turn the chatbox off, can somebody confirm thisis no longer possible ?
Dont think we will be eating any pizza. HF has to dash straight to Euston for a train, and I'm meeting a nurse who will be looking at a recurring football injury for me as she has healing hands.
Well the least Betfair can do is pay for "the healing hands." :).
Chipfire your expenses do not cover "happy endings"!
[:p]
[:p]
PoP must of had the old Set of Aces beaten on the river by Quad kings
"disgraceful shower of f.cking gangsters" is one of the best lines I have heard all month !!
would it possible to be able to disengage people edit notes etc cos i keep opening them by mistake while i'm at the tables .Do you know what i'm saying?
Get rid of the meaningless promotions that are virtually impossible to win and create something that is real value to the players.
If your getting rivered 99% of the time then surely you should be playing those bad hands that are beating you 99% of the time and hey presto you win 99% of the time and you make sh*t loads of cash 99% of the time
easy money
easy money
Thats right change your game stategy and play like it is fixed and you will do ok
What date are you going and will you be back on the same day?
Lol.
I remember BetfairPokerPR saying they had been in touch with you and this had 'been resolved' about a year ago?
I remember BetfairPokerPR saying they had been in touch with you and this had 'been resolved' about a year ago?
We are going down there on Friday morning ( both myself and HF are setting off around 9 and looking at about 4 hours travelling time ) and the meetings start about 3 pm and will run till about 8pm. I believe HF is going to try and get his last train north on Friday night, mine leaves Kings Cross at 7 pm, so its impossible to come back the same day. Its also pointless as I'm at a football match in Stevenage on the Saturday anyway.
I'm putting together a set of questions tonight and will hopefully post them later. We intend to ask the questions then report back to the forum with the answers. Which is as much as we can do really. Both HF and myself have taken a day off work to do this, so I will be narked if it is just a PR exercise.
I'm putting together a set of questions tonight and will hopefully post them later. We intend to ask the questions then report back to the forum with the answers. Which is as much as we can do really. Both HF and myself have taken a day off work to do this, so I will be narked if it is just a PR exercise.
I'd like to ask do they consider BetfairPoker as part of their core business plans or is it just another useful add on like most of the other gambling websites use?
If it is the latter then I fear stagnation throughout the whole company.
If it is the latter then I fear stagnation throughout the whole company.
Potential list of questions :
1) Essence system : Is the essence system here to stay ? How does it work, and who do players contact if they believe they have been incorrectly paid their cash rakeback under this system ?
2) Software upgrades/changes : 12 months ago we were told that requested changes would be implemented in coming upgrades. These haven't happened. Things that we had previously, and which are available on most sites are still missing, as are things we asked for. This list includes the facility to search for players, players geographical location being displayed, late registration for mtts, observer chat, the ability to set a sports betting loss limit. Why were we told we were getting these things, and why have they not been implemented. Does BF have ANY influence in these matters ?
3) Promos/Leaderboards : Why has the much promised MTT leadeboard not materialised ? Why are there so many issues updating STT leaderboards ? Why are there so few promotions aimed at those players who are " recreational " players i.e. not playing full time. Why are there so many issues with promos where tickets are issued for tournaments i.e. players having to chase BF staff for tickets which should be issued automatically ?
4) Customer Service : Why is it so poor ? Poker related queries by phone or email are routinely met with a reply stating the query will be passed to the relevant department, and then go unanswered. Misinformation is regularly given by frontline staff who also seem totally unaware of any major outages or issues affecting the site.
5) Security : Why are there still so many outages ( planned and unplanned) and issues affecting players trying to login. What is the current policy on cheats/colluding ? Why do BF staff routinely delete threads/posts on the subject of collusion ? When there are allegations of routine collusion on the network on reputable poker forums why do Betfair/Ongame never make an official statement about them ? If Ongame are responsible for policing the site what assurances do BF get that this is actually being done ?
We will also be doing our level best to snaffle a hoodie for Barnsey, even if it means disrobing a member of staff. [;)]
1) Essence system : Is the essence system here to stay ? How does it work, and who do players contact if they believe they have been incorrectly paid their cash rakeback under this system ?
2) Software upgrades/changes : 12 months ago we were told that requested changes would be implemented in coming upgrades. These haven't happened. Things that we had previously, and which are available on most sites are still missing, as are things we asked for. This list includes the facility to search for players, players geographical location being displayed, late registration for mtts, observer chat, the ability to set a sports betting loss limit. Why were we told we were getting these things, and why have they not been implemented. Does BF have ANY influence in these matters ?
3) Promos/Leaderboards : Why has the much promised MTT leadeboard not materialised ? Why are there so many issues updating STT leaderboards ? Why are there so few promotions aimed at those players who are " recreational " players i.e. not playing full time. Why are there so many issues with promos where tickets are issued for tournaments i.e. players having to chase BF staff for tickets which should be issued automatically ?
4) Customer Service : Why is it so poor ? Poker related queries by phone or email are routinely met with a reply stating the query will be passed to the relevant department, and then go unanswered. Misinformation is regularly given by frontline staff who also seem totally unaware of any major outages or issues affecting the site.
5) Security : Why are there still so many outages ( planned and unplanned) and issues affecting players trying to login. What is the current policy on cheats/colluding ? Why do BF staff routinely delete threads/posts on the subject of collusion ? When there are allegations of routine collusion on the network on reputable poker forums why do Betfair/Ongame never make an official statement about them ? If Ongame are responsible for policing the site what assurances do BF get that this is actually being done ?
We will also be doing our level best to snaffle a hoodie for Barnsey, even if it means disrobing a member of staff. [;)]
Must admit that so far Chippy has done most of the work on this and I certainly appreciate his efforts.
As he said we have both taken a days holiday from work to do this so if this ends up as a waste of time then I will not be a happy bunny.
I think the above list covers just about everyones queries although on No. 3 I would add in the updating issues.
Also a certain member of the forum has been ignored on this so I think we should add......
6) why are they not in jail,fkn disgraceful shower of fkn gansters.cant even operate a decent honest poker site set up dealing only here appalling shameful bstrds [;)][;)]
As he said we have both taken a days holiday from work to do this so if this ends up as a waste of time then I will not be a happy bunny.
I think the above list covers just about everyones queries although on No. 3 I would add in the updating issues.
Also a certain member of the forum has been ignored on this so I think we should add......
6) why are they not in jail,fkn disgraceful shower of fkn gansters.cant even operate a decent honest poker site set up dealing only here appalling shameful bstrds [;)][;)]
thanks chip
believe it or not
Lol.
I remember BetfairPokerPR saying they had been in touch with you and this had 'been resolved' about a year ago?
yes they did it resulted in me having about a 3 month email exchange with betfair with 8 members of staff 2 of who said they would send it 6 who didnt no what the hell was going on and ended with a bigwig emailing me saying as i had self excluded from poker (after i won the hoodie) they couldnt send me one!
i then posted said email exchange on here and then got a blackmail email stating if i posted it again i will get banned
betfair the land of the free
believe it or not
Lol.
I remember BetfairPokerPR saying they had been in touch with you and this had 'been resolved' about a year ago?
yes they did it resulted in me having about a 3 month email exchange with betfair with 8 members of staff 2 of who said they would send it 6 who didnt no what the hell was going on and ended with a bigwig emailing me saying as i had self excluded from poker (after i won the hoodie) they couldnt send me one!
i then posted said email exchange on here and then got a blackmail email stating if i posted it again i will get banned
betfair the land of the free
Could I make a suggestion for a question to raise?
"What efforts (if any) are being made to try and get players back who used to play here but no longer do"
"What efforts (if any) are being made to try and get players back who used to play here but no longer do"
chipfire see what they can do about adding more tournaments as well. The old BF had several guaranteed tournaments every hour. Now tournaments are few and far between and often at times that don't help players who work.
BetfairPokerPR
05 Aug 11 16:26
Joined:
21 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 621 | Blogger: BetfairPokerPR's blog
Klup - not as straightforward as that.
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
I am still waiting for you to reply to this on here BetfairPoker PR. I haven't played any poker since this.
If you believe what the telephone staff our saying is true, then I would like to know the exact time this ticket was issued and when am I supposed to have redeemed it/played it?
This raises another issue. Where in my account statement are these tickets registered when I use them? From what I can see, if you buy into a game, it registers on your account statement, but if you buy in with a ticket it doesn't. So if you buy in by a ticket, the site goes down and you come back next day say and you want to raise an issue regarding the game, where is the reference number for the game? Where do I find it in my account statement?
Also, why, after a year, does the poker room only tab in the Account Statement, still say, "You do not have any transactions." Why does this tab exist? What is the point of it? Why has this never been rectified - after a year!
If I enquire about a p/l statement to Betfair Poker, where is the statement generated from? Does it come from you or Ongame? How do I know if it is correct or not? I recently asked for a statement and it didn't tally with my own manually kept records - by best part of a thousand pounds. If it's coming from Ongame could this be corrupt in the way the leaderboards have been?
One final thing. Who is actually in charge of Betfair Poker? What's their name and position and what's their works e-mail so we can write directly to them? I think a lot of forum people would like to know this.
I think a company of Betfairs size have got themselves in a horrendous position by being in affect a slave to Ongame and whoever took the decision to play under the network should get the sack.
05 Aug 11 16:26
Joined:
21 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 621 | Blogger: BetfairPokerPR's blog
Klup - not as straightforward as that.
This has now been resolved however according to our records he had redeemed one ticket already. This had been issued after the first call
We have given him another as a gesture of good will
Looks like an honest mistake by both parties as help desk had given him a ticket but McCoy didn't think he had one but had inadvertently redeemed it but not played /used it
I am still waiting for you to reply to this on here BetfairPoker PR. I haven't played any poker since this.
If you believe what the telephone staff our saying is true, then I would like to know the exact time this ticket was issued and when am I supposed to have redeemed it/played it?
This raises another issue. Where in my account statement are these tickets registered when I use them? From what I can see, if you buy into a game, it registers on your account statement, but if you buy in with a ticket it doesn't. So if you buy in by a ticket, the site goes down and you come back next day say and you want to raise an issue regarding the game, where is the reference number for the game? Where do I find it in my account statement?
Also, why, after a year, does the poker room only tab in the Account Statement, still say, "You do not have any transactions." Why does this tab exist? What is the point of it? Why has this never been rectified - after a year!
If I enquire about a p/l statement to Betfair Poker, where is the statement generated from? Does it come from you or Ongame? How do I know if it is correct or not? I recently asked for a statement and it didn't tally with my own manually kept records - by best part of a thousand pounds. If it's coming from Ongame could this be corrupt in the way the leaderboards have been?
One final thing. Who is actually in charge of Betfair Poker? What's their name and position and what's their works e-mail so we can write directly to them? I think a lot of forum people would like to know this.
I think a company of Betfairs size have got themselves in a horrendous position by being in affect a slave to Ongame and whoever took the decision to play under the network should get the sack.
1)I have to agree with the comment about the MTT lobby, everything seems to be a qualifier to something else.
2)I've been promised 50 bucks if I turn up on Friday wearing my new 888 poker hoodie. Will happily swap it in a Noel Edmonds stylee for a Betfair one for Barnsey if I get the chance.
3) We have been told we cant raise individual gripes, so not sure where we go with the comments from rockme, or publish the names of BF staff. These were things we had to agree to before this could go ahead, and I can understand why, but will certainly ask them about the P AND L statements.
2)I've been promised 50 bucks if I turn up on Friday wearing my new 888 poker hoodie. Will happily swap it in a Noel Edmonds stylee for a Betfair one for Barnsey if I get the chance.
3) We have been told we cant raise individual gripes, so not sure where we go with the comments from rockme, or publish the names of BF staff. These were things we had to agree to before this could go ahead, and I can understand why, but will certainly ask them about the P AND L statements.
Thanks. Much appreciated. Although not being able know who is in charge of Betfair poker is a cop out to me. Ask them who they think pays their wages?
Haven't played any poker whatsoever for the last 4 months, but deicded to play a few STT's today out of interest to see if anything had changed.
Seems like the only improvement is the fact that you can see your folded cards more easily. Nothing done about my previous gripes such as lack of p/l account, inability to block chat, identifying country of origin etc.
Already seen what seems like an inordinate number of bad beats and freak river cards. But frankly I am no longer on a mission to change online poker or prove that it is corrupt. It just isn't worth the hassle. Probably I will just go back to playing chess and doing other more useful things with my time.
Good Luck with your trip, Chip, and I hope something good comes out of it.
Seems like the only improvement is the fact that you can see your folded cards more easily. Nothing done about my previous gripes such as lack of p/l account, inability to block chat, identifying country of origin etc.
Already seen what seems like an inordinate number of bad beats and freak river cards. But frankly I am no longer on a mission to change online poker or prove that it is corrupt. It just isn't worth the hassle. Probably I will just go back to playing chess and doing other more useful things with my time.
Good Luck with your trip, Chip, and I hope something good comes out of it.
When you visit the offices see if you can locate the infamous 'golden lever'
Poolio,
Impossible, we are not going anywhere near Keith A's house.
Impossible, we are not going anywhere near Keith A's house.
Cheers wykh, I have pretty low expectations based on previous experience. Simply promising things will be delivered " with the next upgrade " like they did 12 months ago wont get people like us back at the tables.
If they say give us 6 months to sort things out, my response will be the same as most peoples i.e. i've heard it all before, i may pop back next year, in the meantime I will play elsewhere. People stay with a site they have played on for ages even if it deteriorates for a while out of a sense of old fashioned loyalty, but I feel no loyalty to Ongame and most of the regs I used to chat with dont play here anymore.
Right now all that would get me back is an immediate restoration of geographical locations and loss limits COMBINED with a decent promotion that benefits everyone like cash bonus or prize mountain which were effectively 60% rakeback either as cash or a prize in return for increased turnover.
If they say give us 6 months to sort things out, my response will be the same as most peoples i.e. i've heard it all before, i may pop back next year, in the meantime I will play elsewhere. People stay with a site they have played on for ages even if it deteriorates for a while out of a sense of old fashioned loyalty, but I feel no loyalty to Ongame and most of the regs I used to chat with dont play here anymore.
Right now all that would get me back is an immediate restoration of geographical locations and loss limits COMBINED with a decent promotion that benefits everyone like cash bonus or prize mountain which were effectively 60% rakeback either as cash or a prize in return for increased turnover.
search for the hamster and wheel room (server room)
Chipfire and HF if Bwin is truly selling off ongame as surplus like their press release stated then Betfair will easily be the largest client. Surely things BF figured it couldn't do with Bwin owning the company now would become possible as Ongame's major asset. I think you should push ideas that Ongame may not have liked originally but now may have no choice but to consider. I notice observer chat is now open following elimination for 3 minutes which is one thing Bwin conceded to BF's request.
Can you ask them how I keep winning when I'm clearly messing about?
I've not read all the topics above yet, But I doubt anyones asked for this
But two things I think would like is a chatbox / Forum for the blind
Two ideas here
1) BRAILE IN THE CHATBOX
Or / And
2) A VOICEOVER (So they know what cards they have)
This would allow the blind people to play, And feel part of the poker community
But two things I think would like is a chatbox / Forum for the blind
Two ideas here
1) BRAILE IN THE CHATBOX
Or / And
2) A VOICEOVER (So they know what cards they have)
This would allow the blind people to play, And feel part of the poker community
great recommendations sleepwalker. Based on the horrendous calls we come across, it does appear that a fair few severely visually challenged people already play Betfair and some braile (or alternatively voiceovers) would help
How realistic is that though. For the very few blind people that play is it worth the investment?
A lot of them too busy refereeing League One football matches and taking backhanders to play poker.
Sorry Chip/HF but as you are going can you ask about this message:
There is a problem with this website's security certificate.
The security certificate presented by this website was issued for a different website's address.
Security certificate problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to the server.
We recommend that you close this webpage and do not continue to this website.
Click here to close this webpage.
Continue to this website (not recommended).
More information
If you arrived at this page by clicking a link, check the website address in the address bar to be sure that it is the address you were expecting.
When going to a website with an address such as https://example.com, try adding the 'www' to the address, https://www.example.com.
For more information, see "Certificate Errors" in Internet Explorer Help.
All I was doing was accessing my account. And I've never had this one before.
There is a problem with this website's security certificate.
The security certificate presented by this website was issued for a different website's address.
Security certificate problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to the server.
We recommend that you close this webpage and do not continue to this website.
Click here to close this webpage.
Continue to this website (not recommended).
More information
If you arrived at this page by clicking a link, check the website address in the address bar to be sure that it is the address you were expecting.
When going to a website with an address such as https://example.com, try adding the 'www' to the address, https://www.example.com.
For more information, see "Certificate Errors" in Internet Explorer Help.
All I was doing was accessing my account. And I've never had this one before.
didnt this happen friday afternoon.?
any exciting news?
any exciting news?
Yes it happened Gnasher, unfortunately I was working over the weekend and Chip was watching Hartlepool throw away a two goal lead at Stevenage so we will give a full report on the whole meeting either tomorrow or Tuesday.
look forward to the report (and the hoodie :)
O.k, Heres my serious suggestion
STOP PROMOTIONS FOR 1 MONTH
Keep the money and use it to improve the site
Ps :In the past I previously suggested stopping promotions, And for the site to run off with everybodys money (Maybe the bosses at f tilt was reading at the time) So this time I'll just suggest that you freeze promotions on a short term basis
---------------------
Everybody makes mistakes from time to time, And I'm sure all players will happily sacrifice the promotions for 1 week. IF it means we get improvements at the site we LOVE / LOVED, Then overall everybody benifits rather than a few TRAMPY promotion seekers
STOP PROMOTIONS FOR 1 MONTH
Keep the money and use it to improve the site
Ps :In the past I previously suggested stopping promotions, And for the site to run off with everybodys money (Maybe the bosses at f tilt was reading at the time) So this time I'll just suggest that you freeze promotions on a short term basis
---------------------
Everybody makes mistakes from time to time, And I'm sure all players will happily sacrifice the promotions for 1 week. IF it means we get improvements at the site we LOVE / LOVED, Then overall everybody benifits rather than a few TRAMPY promotion seekers
HF will confirm i cased the entire gaff looking for hoodies. Found 2 on coat hangers. Both were purple and green and would just about have covered a fking Action Man. 
This is DISGRACEFUL behaviour
(By the representatives)
I like betfair, And am NOT having a go at anybody here. But I can't believe the disgraceful language coming from the people who were chosen to represent the site
How can you expect to work with the poker team, If your replying to peoples messages in this manner
------------------
Like I said previously, I am (NOT) having a go at ANYBODY here, And I hope something good comes out off it. You are prepared to put in the effort and time to travel / Attend / Improve the site in some way, Which would be nice to see
But it doesn't look very professional when players have to read swear words from the representatives, And I doubt the poker team would appreciate this sort of language either
ALL THE BEST to all the people who are prepared to make an effort
(By the representatives)
I like betfair, And am NOT having a go at anybody here. But I can't believe the disgraceful language coming from the people who were chosen to represent the site
How can you expect to work with the poker team, If your replying to peoples messages in this manner
------------------
Like I said previously, I am (NOT) having a go at ANYBODY here, And I hope something good comes out off it. You are prepared to put in the effort and time to travel / Attend / Improve the site in some way, Which would be nice to see
But it doesn't look very professional when players have to read swear words from the representatives, And I doubt the poker team would appreciate this sort of language either
ALL THE BEST to all the people who are prepared to make an effort
Lighten up Sleep a touch of swearing in a light hearted manner does nobody harm,even BFPRmanager can see the funny side even the gangsters comment is true.A pat on the back to CHIP and HF for taking time
off work (with no expenses)to go and represents us numpties with the issues we all have with betfair.Personally i think betfair should reinburse them two good chaps with any expenses incurred.Mind you not sure about the hartlepool game even though cant say much with me being a mackem.A couple of free tickets into the 200k wouldnt go a miss to the lads.I would propose A 10 dollar donation from all forum members but they would still be out of pocket.Lets hope the lads efforts wern't a waste of time.
off work (with no expenses)to go and represents us numpties with the issues we all have with betfair.Personally i think betfair should reinburse them two good chaps with any expenses incurred.Mind you not sure about the hartlepool game even though cant say much with me being a mackem.A couple of free tickets into the 200k wouldnt go a miss to the lads.I would propose A 10 dollar donation from all forum members but they would still be out of pocket.Lets hope the lads efforts wern't a waste of time.
Sleepdonkers still seething over Wednesdays Community Tourney.
We did get our travel expenses bud.
We did get our travel expenses bud.
It actually made me laugh how you read the above, Then within 24 hours you started a NEW thread to update us on the 80 percent finshed report
(And it looks like my idea to STOP PROMOTIONS was put to the test immediatly too)
Also regards the reply above about seething, I was probably playing a more important game ELSEWHERE at the time
EVERYBODY CAN now blame me for A leaderboard being stopped, And I am absolutly laughing my head off
(And it looks like my idea to STOP PROMOTIONS was put to the test immediatly too)
Also regards the reply above about seething, I was probably playing a more important game ELSEWHERE at the time
EVERYBODY CAN now blame me for A leaderboard being stopped, And I am absolutly laughing my head off
"chipfire227 Joined: 11 Nov 07
Replies: 1764 24 Aug 11 22:48
HF will confirm i cased the entire gaff looking for hoodies. Found 2 on coat hangers. Both were purple and green and would just about have covered a fking Action Man. Sad
"
pleasing efforts chip many thanks
Replies: 1764 24 Aug 11 22:48
HF will confirm i cased the entire gaff looking for hoodies. Found 2 on coat hangers. Both were purple and green and would just about have covered a fking Action Man. Sad
"
pleasing efforts chip many thanks
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