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Dont know if you poker boys know this i know a few of you have bet on the nags...
I cant get my head around betting tax - it there a source for this information.
I seem to remember you could pay tax on your stake OR on your winnings.
Let's say tax was at 10%
3.00 Stake £100 Return £300 If you pay tax on your stake at 10% then does that mean £90 at 3.00? Therfore return £270? If you paid tax on your winnings at 10% it would be £280 return (winnings being taxable £200, or is it the £300 in total and therefore £270 return?)
What about really short price favs back then?
1.10 Stake £100 Return £110. Pretax 10% on stake - £90 at 1.10 returning £99 for a winner???!!!!! or would it be 10% on winnings, returning £109 if the winnings was considered £10 or returning £99 if the winnings was considered £110?!?!?!?
I cant really get my head around the issue and wondered if some of you more astute punters knew?
Also, back then did bookies offer really short priced favs - and example would be the first round of a grand sslam in tennis etc Fed v Wild card at 1/100...
Discuss :) any help appreciated
I cant get my head around betting tax - it there a source for this information.
I seem to remember you could pay tax on your stake OR on your winnings.
Let's say tax was at 10%
3.00 Stake £100 Return £300 If you pay tax on your stake at 10% then does that mean £90 at 3.00? Therfore return £270? If you paid tax on your winnings at 10% it would be £280 return (winnings being taxable £200, or is it the £300 in total and therefore £270 return?)
What about really short price favs back then?
1.10 Stake £100 Return £110. Pretax 10% on stake - £90 at 1.10 returning £99 for a winner???!!!!! or would it be 10% on winnings, returning £109 if the winnings was considered £10 or returning £99 if the winnings was considered £110?!?!?!?
I cant really get my head around the issue and wondered if some of you more astute punters knew?
Also, back then did bookies offer really short priced favs - and example would be the first round of a grand sslam in tennis etc Fed v Wild card at 1/100...
Discuss :) any help appreciated
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£100 at 3.0 pay the tax..... bet costs £110 returns £300
£100 at 3.0 dont pay the tax.... costs £100 returns £270
Yep the old tax would kill the real shorties... (apart from it was tax free on course).
£100 at 3.0 dont pay the tax.... costs £100 returns £270
Yep the old tax would kill the real shorties... (apart from it was tax free on course).
Thanks Feast - i put the same thread on the Horse forum and getting more response than i envisaged - but appreciate your input - very helpful.
There is soon to be betting tax in France (i work in that market) and i think it makes a farce out of betting short prices - just can't get my head around a way to make 1.01 - 1.10 (at 10% tax) at all worth betting on - and the turnover on these are huge (in vision wise).
There is soon to be betting tax in France (i work in that market) and i think it makes a farce out of betting short prices - just can't get my head around a way to make 1.01 - 1.10 (at 10% tax) at all worth betting on - and the turnover on these are huge (in vision wise).
You make me feel old,im only 39 but was around for a few years when i started betting(able to get into bookies at 15,i was a big lad)makes you wonder how anyone made any profit baxk then...
made profit back then because there wasnt anywhere near as much information about back then meaning you still had edges chillin
nowadays you can study for hours without finding a false price so its so much more difficult to find any free money.... means its back to "gambling" again
nowadays you can study for hours without finding a false price so its so much more difficult to find any free money.... means its back to "gambling" again
the only way to bet real shorties was on course where there was no tax, that said there was far less shorties with no IR
I can remember the tax days but wasn't that active punting.
If they implemented a 10% tax now it appears we would all be fooooked. In vision would be hilarious with everyone refusing to bet sub 1.10 shots lol
European legislation means that tax in certain countries will return. Very soon.
It leaves a 'window of opportunity' shall we say for the blackmarket bookmaker. even more so if we consider Betfair has been BANNED in its entirity from many countries - some very, very close.
I may have to brush up on me French lessons.
If they implemented a 10% tax now it appears we would all be fooooked. In vision would be hilarious with everyone refusing to bet sub 1.10 shots lol
European legislation means that tax in certain countries will return. Very soon.
It leaves a 'window of opportunity' shall we say for the blackmarket bookmaker. even more so if we consider Betfair has been BANNED in its entirity from many countries - some very, very close.
I may have to brush up on me French lessons.
betfair is only getting banned because some governments want to make money themselves. any serious punters still find a way ;)
Makes complete sense - a state run betting exchange....
I remember when on course tax was 4%(?)...always made sure I handed over the exact tax when collecting...the on course robbers always rounded in their favour.
I remember when on course tax was 4%(?)...always made sure I handed over the exact tax when collecting...the on course robbers always rounded in their favour.
unlike the racing forum all the answers on here were correct
couple of points , obviously no IR so not that many massively low priced horses , i can remember a 1/9 and a 1/10 (one got turned over as well)
tax was actually 8% payable by the bookie to the taxman and they rounded it up to 10% to make it easier for them and punters to work out bets !! - really it was just a a way of screwing a bit more from the punter , then some put the tax down to 9% after a reduction and i have bet with independants at 8 and 4%
also you did pay tax at the course , if i remember correctly it was 4% although i wouldent swear to it
cant see the tax ever coming back as it was only scrapped when bookies started looking to take their operations overseas (gibralter) to get round any taxation , assume the french are going to tighten up the PM rules which would deduct at source and make this possible ?
couple of points , obviously no IR so not that many massively low priced horses , i can remember a 1/9 and a 1/10 (one got turned over as well)
tax was actually 8% payable by the bookie to the taxman and they rounded it up to 10% to make it easier for them and punters to work out bets !! - really it was just a a way of screwing a bit more from the punter , then some put the tax down to 9% after a reduction and i have bet with independants at 8 and 4%
also you did pay tax at the course , if i remember correctly it was 4% although i wouldent swear to it
cant see the tax ever coming back as it was only scrapped when bookies started looking to take their operations overseas (gibralter) to get round any taxation , assume the french are going to tighten up the PM rules which would deduct at source and make this possible ?
All online bets made by French residents will be subject to tax. This is not true for the shops - so the PMU 'terminals' (they dont really have traditional bookies over there) will be 'let off'. Most of this is done to ensure the monopoly system our French friends LOVE and stop all kind of competition. Betfair is banned - in response to Ariston's 'Serious punters will find a way' this is true - but Serious punters in France constitute less than 0.0000000000001% of the gmabling crowd. they will not be opening accounts in Switzerland and masking IP addresses.
France is 'gambling immature' the customer and the state - that is why this kind of rediculous legislation gets through.
Come World Cup this summer bookmakers with French customers have to give back NO MORE than 85% of betting turnover!
Can you beleive this?!?
most UK based books work on 2-5% margin. This results in competitive odds and high turnover low margins.
For 85% winnings bookmakers will have to adopt a taxation of about 10% to roughly break even OR have 1.01 odds for 1.12 chances.
all quite crazy - but it does open doors for money making ventures.
France is 'gambling immature' the customer and the state - that is why this kind of rediculous legislation gets through.
Come World Cup this summer bookmakers with French customers have to give back NO MORE than 85% of betting turnover!
Can you beleive this?!?
most UK based books work on 2-5% margin. This results in competitive odds and high turnover low margins.
For 85% winnings bookmakers will have to adopt a taxation of about 10% to roughly break even OR have 1.01 odds for 1.12 chances.
all quite crazy - but it does open doors for money making ventures.
go into you local lbo place a £1 bet and insist you pay tax on the bet rather than get diddled on your winnings, entertaining to watch!
tax was 10% in the shops and 4% on course back in the day. some bookies would let you back a shortie without putting it through the books to keep your business to avoid tax altogether.
tax inspectors would visit the racecourse and to a lesser extent the dog tracks to check your books ( clerks would write down all bets in a huge ledger and they had to correspond with either a ticket handed to the punter by the bookie, or if the punter was a regular his nom de plume e.g. glasses, hat, postman etc )
as i worked on course a lot of people would drop money round the house before i set off if they wanted a lump on a shortie. in the days of michael dickinson this would be most days in the national hunt season. there was no mobile phones in those days and no on course phones so basically they were trusting me to get the money on at best price.
the high street firms in those days were lethal in sending money back to the track to shorten the jollies. if dickinson had 3 odds on shots on a card at catterick for example and the first to won you could guarantee 100 per cent the third one would be hammered.
many a time i would have a grand of other folks money for a horse that was forecast at 4/5 in the sporting life that was returned something daft like 1/3.
with no pictures back from the track other than televised races on itv or bbc the advantage of going to the track with its lower taxation was immense. which was why a lot more people went racing, especially the big hitters.
with 10 per cent tax and sp's returned at 120+% the betting shop punters were cannon fodder.
tax inspectors would visit the racecourse and to a lesser extent the dog tracks to check your books ( clerks would write down all bets in a huge ledger and they had to correspond with either a ticket handed to the punter by the bookie, or if the punter was a regular his nom de plume e.g. glasses, hat, postman etc )
as i worked on course a lot of people would drop money round the house before i set off if they wanted a lump on a shortie. in the days of michael dickinson this would be most days in the national hunt season. there was no mobile phones in those days and no on course phones so basically they were trusting me to get the money on at best price.
the high street firms in those days were lethal in sending money back to the track to shorten the jollies. if dickinson had 3 odds on shots on a card at catterick for example and the first to won you could guarantee 100 per cent the third one would be hammered.
many a time i would have a grand of other folks money for a horse that was forecast at 4/5 in the sporting life that was returned something daft like 1/3.
with no pictures back from the track other than televised races on itv or bbc the advantage of going to the track with its lower taxation was immense. which was why a lot more people went racing, especially the big hitters.
with 10 per cent tax and sp's returned at 120+% the betting shop punters were cannon fodder.
yeh but if you had a few contacts some of the coups we got were worth all the **ty tax etc ;)
So many punters back then used to have £10 on instead of £9 tax paid.
Anyone else got really good skills with the nine times table that is now completely redundant!
davefu 13 Mar 12:35
Anyone else got really good skills with the nine times table that is now completely redundant!
yes - they all add up to 9
4x9 = 36 3+6=9
5x9 = 78 4+5=9
hth
Anyone else got really good skills with the nine times table that is now completely redundant!
yes - they all add up to 9
4x9 = 36 3+6=9
5x9 = 78 4+5=9
hth
Horace plays Poker 13 Mar 20:00
davefu 13 Mar 12:35
Anyone else got really good skills with the nine times table that is now completely redundant!
yes - they all add up to 9
4x9 = 36 3+6=9
5x9 = 78 4+5=9
hth
not really mate no.
davefu 13 Mar 12:35
Anyone else got really good skills with the nine times table that is now completely redundant!
yes - they all add up to 9
4x9 = 36 3+6=9
5x9 = 78 4+5=9
hth
not really mate no.
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