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recently started playing alot more PLO on here, small stakes 1/2, and as any player would, i try to avoid the sticky situations by playing as premuim hands as possible, position dictating and table size etc...but have found myself in a few repetative situations which i either find hard to fold or compute in time, allowing for the correct play. (below not exact hands as pokerbuddy screwed but you'll get my drift)
scenario1:
dealt AA55 rainbow ,raised round to you and you re- raise pre and get 2 callers,(therefore big pot already), flop A 10 J or even A 9 10 , 2 cards suited on flop (you know thetype of flop i mean). so although flopped a set and probably ahead (well flop 2 for sure but still) against 2 players your outs are so limited to improve (7) and you know if you make any kinda bet on flop and are re-raised your drawing thin ,secondly if you check the flop and are pot betted into you..... you are getting into a big pot (9 outs on flop justify a pot bet call? implied and all? turn brings you potentially 3 more outs? as if board pairs you probably aint getting anymore action anyways?) are you prob best shuvving if your to get involved at all,or dump it there and then as crazy as that sounds..... prob up against a wrap and flush draw or in flop1 a made straight already. you could also argue that if the other 2 players are in your getting better value potwise but you know for sure your gona have to outdraw them to win.....but better pot size obv argues that case for you.
i have folded and also floated and re-raised the above flop type of situation, in certain spots depending on OP, but is it a gut play and either pump or dump situation ? some will say see turn card and call a flop bet, and then get away on turn if bet into again but to me that seems the wrong move over time. i know people will say stack sizes , opposition, previous form all matters but this is a more 'standard' situation that arises...the above situation gets soooo much more messy when you only call a flopand a turn card comes that doesnt help......big pot... committed?...drawing thin?
scenario1:
dealt AA55 rainbow ,raised round to you and you re- raise pre and get 2 callers,(therefore big pot already), flop A 10 J or even A 9 10 , 2 cards suited on flop (you know thetype of flop i mean). so although flopped a set and probably ahead (well flop 2 for sure but still) against 2 players your outs are so limited to improve (7) and you know if you make any kinda bet on flop and are re-raised your drawing thin ,secondly if you check the flop and are pot betted into you..... you are getting into a big pot (9 outs on flop justify a pot bet call? implied and all? turn brings you potentially 3 more outs? as if board pairs you probably aint getting anymore action anyways?) are you prob best shuvving if your to get involved at all,or dump it there and then as crazy as that sounds..... prob up against a wrap and flush draw or in flop1 a made straight already. you could also argue that if the other 2 players are in your getting better value potwise but you know for sure your gona have to outdraw them to win.....but better pot size obv argues that case for you.
i have folded and also floated and re-raised the above flop type of situation, in certain spots depending on OP, but is it a gut play and either pump or dump situation ? some will say see turn card and call a flop bet, and then get away on turn if bet into again but to me that seems the wrong move over time. i know people will say stack sizes , opposition, previous form all matters but this is a more 'standard' situation that arises...the above situation gets soooo much more messy when you only call a flopand a turn card comes that doesnt help......big pot... committed?...drawing thin?
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scenario2 :
2nd spot i find tough is when (deep stacked lets say) you have flopped the nut straight or 2nd nut str8 but have a wrap, but are holding a rainbow hand... you pot bet flop and are insta called or even raised...turn is a random card but puts 2 same suits on board..... so you are at least ahead but feel op has same hand as you but wary of him free rolling the flush draw verses your hand.... if he shuvs after turn card and you know you cant really improve your hand..... do you just call and pray no flush draw hits or is there a case to get away from the hand? depending on his bet size?.... (my answer is obv depends on how much you have invested in the hand, and balance to call ,compared to the odds of him hitting the flush,.... of course the bet is to reshuv the raise after flop but if i havent explained properly you will get my drift of the sticky situation your sometimes in.... (i guess the 10 J Q K A hand is better..... you may both have it but OP free rolling on river to make the flush...... do you ever dump it..... ever ?)........ no one ever does...but is there a case to dump it.......
2nd spot i find tough is when (deep stacked lets say) you have flopped the nut straight or 2nd nut str8 but have a wrap, but are holding a rainbow hand... you pot bet flop and are insta called or even raised...turn is a random card but puts 2 same suits on board..... so you are at least ahead but feel op has same hand as you but wary of him free rolling the flush draw verses your hand.... if he shuvs after turn card and you know you cant really improve your hand..... do you just call and pray no flush draw hits or is there a case to get away from the hand? depending on his bet size?.... (my answer is obv depends on how much you have invested in the hand, and balance to call ,compared to the odds of him hitting the flush,.... of course the bet is to reshuv the raise after flop but if i havent explained properly you will get my drift of the sticky situation your sometimes in.... (i guess the 10 J Q K A hand is better..... you may both have it but OP free rolling on river to make the flush...... do you ever dump it..... ever ?)........ no one ever does...but is there a case to dump it.......
note if your playing v daveb raise him and his brain will explode
seems so doesnt it.... never been good at putting somethng simple on paper !
You really need to use punctuation or what you are writing looks far too hard to read.
scenario 1 translation:
you have aa in omaha cash and reraise with it getting 2 callers.
glory be you flop a set.
should you cack you pants or get the money in?
you have aa in omaha cash and reraise with it getting 2 callers.
glory be you flop a set.
should you cack you pants or get the money in?
There's a world of difference between AJ10 and AJ9 flop.
AJ9 you should be repotting, you are ahead and if they do have the open ended straight draw, they only have the cards to hit the straight to win, you can hit the boat or they can miss their outs (more likely than not tbh).
AJ10 might be a call if you get both players involved or the raise is less than pot
AJ9 you should be repotting, you are ahead and if they do have the open ended straight draw, they only have the cards to hit the straight to win, you can hit the boat or they can miss their outs (more likely than not tbh).
AJ10 might be a call if you get both players involved or the raise is less than pot
rowland, i think you wrong mate.... verses two players on a danger flop is by no means an auto shuv flop or repop, when other cards you are holding are dead cards.. pp ...plus the cards u need to hit to make fh... are more than likely held in the wrap by other 2 players.. limiting your outs
I have to translate this to 2.5/5 as it is all I play. You get a reraise in it is $75 called twice. So you have at least $225 in the middle and $425 back with a full stack. You really should be getting them in on the first no question, and in the second, you should shrug and then get them in. They don't always have KQ, and JJ and flush draws are just as likely.
I suppose it gets tricky if you have monster stacks, but play it weak you'll get walked over by the scandis.
But 1/2 always seems such a nit fest by comparision, so maybe it is different?
I suppose it gets tricky if you have monster stacks, but play it weak you'll get walked over by the scandis.
But 1/2 always seems such a nit fest by comparision, so maybe it is different?
dave - i only saw A910 hand - AJ10 is a diff kettle of fish so fair enough.
but just reading your psychology suggests Omaha is defo not the game for you. omaha is for metalist aggressors not thinkers.
good luck
but just reading your psychology suggests Omaha is defo not the game for you. omaha is for metalist aggressors not thinkers.
good luck
ok ..thks...all noted.. thing i should be asking is if u just call in those situations, it becomes tougher decision and more expensive on turn...get it in evertime and you should come out on top overall...
tbf i didnt explain it too well....and will use actual examples next time...
tbf i didnt explain it too well....and will use actual examples next time...
***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 653145276 *****
PL $1/$2 Omaha - Tuesday, February 16, 20:33:02 GMT 2010
Table Shenandoah 04 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of active players : 6
Seat 1: Keith A ( $101.45 )
Seat 2: daveb ( $622.50 )
Seat 3: trixas ( $95.45 )
Seat 4: MessiLionel ( $364.40 )
Seat 5: DownSoLong ( $285.65 )
Seat 6: tcmoreira ( $137.25 )
tcmoreira posts small blind [$1]
Keith A posts big blind [$2]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Keith A [ Qs, Ad, Ah, 3d ]
daveb folds
trixas calls [$2]
MessiLionel folds
DownSoLong raises to [$6.75]
tcmoreira folds
Keith A calls [$4.75]
trixas calls [$4.75]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 8s, 9d ]
Keith A bets [$15.93]
trixas raises to [$69.04]
DownSoLong folds
Keith A goes all-in
Keith A raises to [$94.70]
trixas calls [$19.66]
trixas goes all-in
Returning uncalled bet [$6] to Keith A
** Showdown **
Keith A shows [ Qs, Ad, Ah, 3d ]
trixas shows [ 8d, 8h, Js, Tc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
** Hand Conclusion **
trixas wins $195.65 from main pot with a straight, Jack to Seven
************ Game 653145276 ends ************
PL $1/$2 Omaha - Tuesday, February 16, 20:33:02 GMT 2010
Table Shenandoah 04 6-max (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of active players : 6
Seat 1: Keith A ( $101.45 )
Seat 2: daveb ( $622.50 )
Seat 3: trixas ( $95.45 )
Seat 4: MessiLionel ( $364.40 )
Seat 5: DownSoLong ( $285.65 )
Seat 6: tcmoreira ( $137.25 )
tcmoreira posts small blind [$1]
Keith A posts big blind [$2]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Keith A [ Qs, Ad, Ah, 3d ]
daveb folds
trixas calls [$2]
MessiLionel folds
DownSoLong raises to [$6.75]
tcmoreira folds
Keith A calls [$4.75]
trixas calls [$4.75]
** Dealing Flop ** [ As, 8s, 9d ]
Keith A bets [$15.93]
trixas raises to [$69.04]
DownSoLong folds
Keith A goes all-in
Keith A raises to [$94.70]
trixas calls [$19.66]
trixas goes all-in
Returning uncalled bet [$6] to Keith A
** Showdown **
Keith A shows [ Qs, Ad, Ah, 3d ]
trixas shows [ 8d, 8h, Js, Tc ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
** Hand Conclusion **
trixas wins $195.65 from main pot with a straight, Jack to Seven
************ Game 653145276 ends ************
thks keith.. funny as you know i was at the table.. how ironic....
as i said to you after..if u add another layer to that hand.... with your q 3 as other two holdings... would you really be a fav .. all in verses 2 players... i say no
as i said to you after..if u add another layer to that hand.... with your q 3 as other two holdings... would you really be a fav .. all in verses 2 players... i say no
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