Gettign away from overpairs in reraised pots when they flop a set

if you are 80% fav you should be getting it in pre imo

well that would be the ideal plan but obv doesnt work

well you could make a note of the set mining nits and try get away from fetting it in against such

dry flops vs nits can get away from

ace flops please

Its not as easy as just getting it in pre when the villain is bad enough to setmine in 3bet pots.

The villain in this hand is a regular. He's not very good but is a winning player in the games, more due to the general incompetence of the villains rather than his own good play though.

When he flats my 3bet, his range is probably 66-JJ(I elimininated QQ due to there only being one combo if it left)Suited broadways, AQo+

He almost certainly 4bets AA/KK, so they only make up a very small portion of his range.

I check the flop because I want to keep some bluffs in his range and trap some dead money in the pot. Mentally, I've already decided I'm not folding, so the CRAI is the best play. If he checks behind, then its an easy value bet on the turn.

When he bets full pot on the flop, I'm left assuming that I have little to no fold equity, so it becomes a simple math problem. Its going to cost me my remaining $42 to win $96, so I'm getting better than 2/1, so I need around 30% equity against his range to make a shove profitable. I might have a small amount of fold equity against his pure bluffs(although there aren't many in his range apart from random underpairs he decided to turn into bluffs.

Against a range of KK+ 88-JJ and ATcc+ KQcc I have 43% equity, so its a trivial shove.

Does anyone really think I should play the hand any differently, or fold at any point?

Sorry, forgot to include the HH

***** Hand History for Game 650051479 ***** (Betfair)
$50.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 11, 01:13:16 ET 2010
Table Xenon 10 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Seat 1: dan5555 ( $77.74 USD )
Seat 2: SunniSideUp ( $50.00 USD )
Seat 3: roooooooo ( $133.14 USD )
Seat 4: 4tid2ude ( $57.00 USD )
Seat 5: teamdobbs ( $50.00 USD )
Seat 6: lapurdi ( $38.55 USD )
Seat 7: MrFancyPant ( $116.57 USD )
Seat 8: BaracusT ( $48.00 USD )
Seat 9: dmh82 ( $18.65 USD )
MrFancyPant posts small blind [$0.25 USD].
BaracusT posts big blind [$0.50 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to BaracusT [ Qh Qc ]
dmh82 folds
dan5555 folds
SunniSideUp folds
roooooooo folds
4tid2ude folds
teamdobbs raises [$1.75 USD]
lapurdi folds
MrFancyPant folds
BaracusT raises [$5.00 USD]
teamdobbs calls [$3.75 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, Td, 8c ]
BaracusT checks
teamdobbs bets [$11.25 USD]
BaracusT raises [$42.50 USD]

I havein't included the result as including results leads people to indulge in result orientated thinking.

just cause they pot doesnt mean they are uber strong. Usually people pot when they want you to go away.

baracus' post has just sent me on life tilt

you were already on life tilt birdy!!

years ago

and that post nearly sent me back on it

do people really talk like that

think you played the hand fine, he could easily bet pot with any A10, a pair like 88 99 to make u have to lay down AK.

doubt he'd bet pot if he'd flopped trips but i'd certainly be going all in after his pot bet

I thought discussing poker strategy might be a bit much on here but I gave it a go.

I guess thats what makes Betfair such a soft site for moderate players like me.

Long live Betfair and the idiots that play there :)

teamdobbs is a nit

Baracus 11 Feb 11:34
I thought discussing poker strategy might be a bit much on here but I gave it a go.

I can only admire the analysis of your thought processes during the course of the hand that you describe and thank you fort that.

However, in this situation at the stakes that I play, I can only imagine the opposition player noticing that 2 of the cards on the flop have got the same coloured shape and symbol on them as the 2 he is holding and pressing the raise button... :|

Baracus 11 Feb 11:34
I thought discussing poker strategy might be a bit much on here but I gave it a go.

I can only admire the analysis of your thought processes during the course of the hand that you describe and thank you fort that.

However, in this situation at the stakes that I play, I can only imagine the opposition player noticing that 2 of the cards on the flop have got the same coloured shape and symbol on them as the 2 he is holding and pressing the raise button... :|

The villain in this hand is a regular. He's not very good but is a winning player

you sure?

Dooberama 11 Feb 18:53


The villain in this hand is a regular. He's not very good but is a winning player

you sure?


Thats a contradiction. You THINK he aint a good player. But whatever he is doing he is winning so he IS a good player ;-)

winning = good player?

FWIW I don't think he ever claimed to be winning when he moaned at me.

I quote you. " He is not very good but he is a winning player"

The only thing I can think of that defines a good player is ....well winning.

I see a lot of s hit talked by people that know all the "terms" used to describe moves in games. They read all the books and know their EVs and %ages. They can analyze a hand and tell you what you should and shouldn't have done. The reality is tho, poker is played on a table with decisions made by a brain not a book. Not by Holdem manager or any other sh it programme. It's a gambling game and winners win cos they know in their heads when to bet and when not to.
In the words of the great man

You got to know when to holdem, know when to foldem, know when to walk away know when to run..............

KENNY ROGERS ;-)

hem isn't sh1t

Short answer: No.
Long answer: Fk no.

Good point Hearts. I was criticised on PP last night for raising J8s from MP in a SH cash game and then calling a 'mega raise' (his words) from the BB. The flop gave me a Str J - 7 with a strong flush draw. I then called hisl raise to reveal a pair of Qs and I won the hand with a flush. He then sat out of the game and gave me dogs abuse for the next 10 minutes, saying I was a bad player for calling his mega raise and then going all in. I only play for a bit of fun and relaxation and my play can be very loose in the SH games but this poker geek seemed to think I should have laid down my hand because of his mega raise. I have posted the hand below, what do you think?

#Game No : 8908408660
***** Hand History for Game 8908408660 *****
$5 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 11, 21:02:39 EST 2010
Table Table 167738 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6/6
Seat 3: Macdui ( $2.80 USD )
Seat 1: Minder80 ( $8.35 USD )
Seat 6: Rithy666 ( $11.39 USD )
Seat 5: Toweeeelie ( $8.91 USD )
Seat 2: esmirnapt ( $5 USD )
Seat 4: luckystrik8 ( $4.04 USD )
Toweeeelie posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
Rithy666 posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Macdui [ 8c Jc ]
Minder80 calls [$0.04 USD]
Macdui raises [$0.16 USD]
luckystrik8 folds
Toweeeelie calls [$0.14 USD]
Rithy666 raises [$0.80 USD]
Minder80 folds
Macdui calls [$0.68 USD]
Toweeeelie folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, Tc, 7s ]
Rithy666 is all-In [$10.55 USD]
Macdui is all-In [$1.96 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Rithy666 shows [ Qc, Qd ]a pair of Queens.
Macdui shows [ 8c, Jc ]a flush, Jack high.
Rithy666 wins $8.59 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Queens.
Macdui wins $5.51 USD from the main pot with a flush, Jack high.

Good point Hearts. I was criticised on PP last night for raising J8s from MP in a SH cash game and then calling a 'mega raise' (his words) from the BB. The flop gave me a Str J - 7 with a strong flush draw. I then called hisl raise to reveal a pair of Qs and I won the hand with a flush. He then sat out of the game and gave me dogs abuse for the next 10 minutes, saying I was a bad player for calling his mega raise and then going all in. I only play for a bit of fun and relaxation and my play can be very loose in the SH games but this poker geek seemed to think I should have laid down my hand because of his mega raise. I have posted the hand below, what do you think?

#Game No : 8908408660
***** Hand History for Game 8908408660 *****
$5 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, February 11, 21:02:39 EST 2010
Table Table 167738 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 6/6
Seat 3: Macdui ( $2.80 USD )
Seat 1: Minder80 ( $8.35 USD )
Seat 6: Rithy666 ( $11.39 USD )
Seat 5: Toweeeelie ( $8.91 USD )
Seat 2: esmirnapt ( $5 USD )
Seat 4: luckystrik8 ( $4.04 USD )
Toweeeelie posts small blind [$0.02 USD].
Rithy666 posts big blind [$0.04 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Macdui [ 8c Jc ]
Minder80 calls [$0.04 USD]
Macdui raises [$0.16 USD]
luckystrik8 folds
Toweeeelie calls [$0.14 USD]
Rithy666 raises [$0.80 USD]
Minder80 folds
Macdui calls [$0.68 USD]
Toweeeelie folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, Tc, 7s ]
Rithy666 is all-In [$10.55 USD]
Macdui is all-In [$1.96 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
Rithy666 shows [ Qc, Qd ]a pair of Queens.
Macdui shows [ 8c, Jc ]a flush, Jack high.
Rithy666 wins $8.59 USD from the side pot 1 with a pair of Queens.
Macdui wins $5.51 USD from the main pot with a flush, Jack high.

raising 4 times BB with J8s is typical donk play rewarded with STr8 on flop and OESTRflush draw.

BINGO by any other name.

Trusty 12 Feb 14:03


raising 4 times BB with J8s is typical donk play rewarded with STr8 on flop and OESTRflush draw.

BINGO by any other name.


Bingo probably. But at those stakes you aint risking much by taking chances.
Poker in my opinion is a cash game where the person with the least to lose is in the strongest position. He is able to take more risks without the worry.
Hence everyone telling people all the time to play at a limit the are comfortable with.

^ this is the logic which will imho eventually kill online poker. But its your money you do what you want with it

1hearts if that is the case that the person with the lowest *****on the table has the best position coz he has to least to lose, why do shortstackers get so much abuse, surely theyre giving themselves the best position??

Cant believe anyone is saying teamdobbs is a bad player.

He moans like fk at the tables from time to time but is 100% a winning player and in any 1 month i would say he makes at least 4 times as much as BaracusT the player who orig called him bad.

We all have our own styles of play and we all think our way works but however someone plays if at the end of the month they are showing a profit then surley they are doing something right and are def NOT a bad player.

You only got to check teamdobbs consistency on the cash leaderboards to see he is no mug.

Trusty, I am not claiming to be a good player but neither am I a donk. I just hate tight ass grinders who play agressively pre flop with a very limited range of hands and rely on inexperienced players to make mistakes or fold to their conti bets. I find raising pre flop and calling large raises with suited connectors and small pocket pairs an effective strategy against this type of player. They seem incapable of laying down their hands when they fail to hit the board or improve their hands, refusing to believe I would raise 4 BBs with cards lower than their ranges and often going bust on the river looking for that ellusive A,K or Q.

What really**es me off though is their attitude when they get beat like this. They seem to think they are entitled to win because they play their narrow text book poker and then have a go at me for making the wrong moves! Please continue to believe that this type of move is donk play. I look forward to meeting you on the tables!

teammdobbs is defo decent, maybe not at 2/5$ with doobs plays but at lower stakes hes good and he occasionally makes some plays which makes him hard to play as u usually just asume hes a nit!

Can i just add aswell that i dont think Baracust is a bad player either. I just think teamdobbs is alot better than him thats all.

Only difference is that Teamdobbs dosnt feel the need to tell everyone about it like Baracus does :D

pattie, you have called over a quarter of your stack off pre with J8 suited.

That is awful, simple as that.

Pattie must be fishing

Noha, I just like doing a little fishing :)

Dobbs isn't very good but he knows how to beat the games he plays in. I'm still adjusting to Betfair as it plays nothing like most other sites.

The main reason Dobbs annoys me is his mate 'Climbs' who uses the poker tables as an instant messenger service and just types the letter 'm' too often :x

"M"

^^^^ Class comeback from climbs no doubt :D

Jesus 1hearts. I was quoting someone else. That is why I used italics, but never mind.

I know teamdobbs said he had a bad time and had a break for a while. He has probably come back a better player.

Noha, what is your screenname at the tables? You have obviously played with me at some point.

Hi Baracus. My screen name is sfgaehhg but you prob not played v me as i only play freerolls.

I just like to watch great players like you and dobbs and try to learn the game.

GL at the tables.

Aye, ok.

If you say so :)