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Final table in the $110 GTD. Prizes down to 5, with me in 6th place. Some quite aggressive players, so I might have sneaked 5th by sitting tight. I went all in post-flop as follows, and lost.
I'd just be interested to kinow what others think: Should I have folded post flop after the raise?
NL Texas Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $0.50 Entry Fee, Level:13 Blinds(400/800-80 ante) - Saturday, January 02, 01:15:59 GMT 2010
$250 Guaranteed NL Hold'em #320595
Table 1 9-max (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of active players : 9
Seat 1: Avanti ( 41,060.24 )
Seat 2: caselame ( 37,705.50 )
Seat 3: VoiN08 ( 15,422 )
Seat 4: Paige199 ( 51,074 )
Seat 5: derzhimorda ( 15,429.97 )
Seat 6: snear ( 99,014.68 )
Seat 7: bobyboy ( 20,535 )
Seat 8: KopiteCas10 ( 25,601.03 )
Seat 9: wykh ( 23,157.58 )
Tourney Level:13 Blinds(400/800-80 ante)
KopiteCas10 posts ante [80]
Avanti posts ante [80]
caselame posts ante [80]
VoiN08 posts ante [80]
Paige199 posts ante [80]
derzhimorda posts ante [80]
bobyboy posts ante [80]
wykh posts ante [80]
snear posts ante [80]
VoiN08 posts small blind [400]
Paige199 posts big blind [800]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to wykh [ 5c, 5h ]
derzhimorda folds
snear calls [800]
bobyboy folds
KopiteCas10 folds
wykh raises to [4,320]
Avanti folds
caselame folds
VoiN08 folds
Paige199 calls [3,520]
snear folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Kd, Kh ]
Paige199 goes all-in
Paige199 bets [46,674]
wykh calls [18,757.58]
wykh goes all-in
Returning uncalled bet [27,916.42] to Paige199
** Showdown **
Paige199 shows [ 7c, 7s ]
wykh shows [ 5c, 5h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
** Hand Conclusion **
Paige199 wins 48,075.16 from main pot with full house, Kings full of Sevens
I'd just be interested to kinow what others think: Should I have folded post flop after the raise?
NL Texas Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $0.50 Entry Fee, Level:13 Blinds(400/800-80 ante) - Saturday, January 02, 01:15:59 GMT 2010
$250 Guaranteed NL Hold'em #320595
Table 1 9-max (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of active players : 9
Seat 1: Avanti ( 41,060.24 )
Seat 2: caselame ( 37,705.50 )
Seat 3: VoiN08 ( 15,422 )
Seat 4: Paige199 ( 51,074 )
Seat 5: derzhimorda ( 15,429.97 )
Seat 6: snear ( 99,014.68 )
Seat 7: bobyboy ( 20,535 )
Seat 8: KopiteCas10 ( 25,601.03 )
Seat 9: wykh ( 23,157.58 )
Tourney Level:13 Blinds(400/800-80 ante)
KopiteCas10 posts ante [80]
Avanti posts ante [80]
caselame posts ante [80]
VoiN08 posts ante [80]
Paige199 posts ante [80]
derzhimorda posts ante [80]
bobyboy posts ante [80]
wykh posts ante [80]
snear posts ante [80]
VoiN08 posts small blind [400]
Paige199 posts big blind [800]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to wykh [ 5c, 5h ]
derzhimorda folds
snear calls [800]
bobyboy folds
KopiteCas10 folds
wykh raises to [4,320]
Avanti folds
caselame folds
VoiN08 folds
Paige199 calls [3,520]
snear folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, Kd, Kh ]
Paige199 goes all-in
Paige199 bets [46,674]
wykh calls [18,757.58]
wykh goes all-in
Returning uncalled bet [27,916.42] to Paige199
** Showdown **
Paige199 shows [ 7c, 7s ]
wykh shows [ 5c, 5h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
** Hand Conclusion **
Paige199 wins 48,075.16 from main pot with full house, Kings full of Sevens
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a serious reply ... is, its very hard to fold a pp in those circumstances, but it looked like paige was ahead
I actually did watch that hand at the time, and i thought you made a bad call.
I actually did watch that hand at the time, and i thought you made a bad call.
Thanks for your reply Model Man. Yes, I am inclined to agree with you. Normally I do play very tight on final table and hope to ladder up. Possibly it was quite a risky move for Paige to make because a big pot raise could easily have meant I had better than 77. But with her having made the push my best option was to fold.
yes, he either has a pair here or a decent Ace, if he has the pair you're drawing dead, if he has an ace then you're not a massive favourite so I fold
i cant see why you raised so big pre, a 2500 raise does the same, and then an easy fold, but once you raised so much, you are then getting 6 to 4 on your money, still not sure its a call, but if he was really aggressive then it could be, but what can you beat? 22 33 44, and even if its a bluff he has 6 outs, so i think i fold, but the real mistake was raising so big pre.
Thats an interesting point about the pre flop raise being too big. Thing is, 9 seats on table and aggressive field. I don't want more than one caller, obviously.
If I win the hand I am guaranteed to be well in the money, whereas if I fold (admittedly now even more short stacked cos of the preflop raise), I may struggle to make anything.
In terms of EMV, if I fold I have say a 50% chance to make 5th...or about $15...what I had invested in the tourney. If I call I should definitely make the $30 5th prize if i win, and a better chance to make higher position. So I don't quite need a 50% chance to win the hand to make it cash positive.
It's quite tricky at the end of these tourneys to take into account the cash position on top of the hand odds. I dare say I got this one wrong.
If I win the hand I am guaranteed to be well in the money, whereas if I fold (admittedly now even more short stacked cos of the preflop raise), I may struggle to make anything.
In terms of EMV, if I fold I have say a 50% chance to make 5th...or about $15...what I had invested in the tourney. If I call I should definitely make the $30 5th prize if i win, and a better chance to make higher position. So I don't quite need a 50% chance to win the hand to make it cash positive.
It's quite tricky at the end of these tourneys to take into account the cash position on top of the hand odds. I dare say I got this one wrong.
Ihate the pre flop bet, i cant see what it achives , it steels the blinds sometimes but if ever played back at is crushed or turning into a very tough post flop situation.Your utg ,with these small pairs a fold is not bad or to nitty , if you 2.5x it you may get folds because you have raised utg if you get multi calls the post flop is easy to play you make a set or you dont and with 30bbs can easy fold with out damaging your chances.As said above by raising so big pre you have now created a situation where what ever you do it seems sub optimal.
As others have said, original raise is miles too high. As played it's probably a fold without any info.
Very often I do fold anything less than 8 8 if UTG, particularly if I am not short stacked. Not a big fan of raising with small PP generally. Just felt I had to make a move given my chipstack, but point well taken.
But with her having made the push my best option was to fold
Agreed.
Agreed.
While I agree the pre flop raise is obviously too high, there can't be much wrong with raising here under the gun late on in an MTT with antes involved.
with 30 bbs , i dont think theirs anything wrong with raising as long as the tables letting some though, if we get 3 bet or shoved , i think our stack is to big to call off concidering our position should give the impression of some strength,i would assume were not getting shoved light very often or often enough to make 55 a call..But as the op over bet pre because he didnt want to have to play 55 post flop opp, then open folding is prob a better line for him.I like to raise here myself but 2.4bbs even if only for the reason to balance my ranges from utg.I dont see multi callers as a prob and folds would be grt.
The chip leader with over 100BBs has limped in before you. The BB has over 60BB and with you on 30BB, limping to setmine is raising pre.
oh i missed the limper, yes bluff your dead right limp along is only option, looking back at hh ive been playing a diff hand ignore the rubbish ive posted above.
Also, given your raise size, if the SB had shoved over you pre and the others folded, you'd probably have to let out a deep sigh then call.
Tough spot, personally I think limping (or even folding) preflop here would be a better play. With a hand like 55 you are no more than 50% against most hands. The pot would be small enough to get away from the hand relatively cheaply.
Once someone has limped in you need stronger hands to raise with.
I think it mostly depends on the range of hands Paige has been limping in with and what hands she would overbet like that on the flop with (after calling your preflop raise).
Given the pot odds (I make it around 1.5 or 3/2) you only need to be ahead 40% of the time to make it a worthwhile call. If you had a few less *****it would be a much easier call on pot odds alone.
Once someone has limped in you need stronger hands to raise with.
I think it mostly depends on the range of hands Paige has been limping in with and what hands she would overbet like that on the flop with (after calling your preflop raise).
Given the pot odds (I make it around 1.5 or 3/2) you only need to be ahead 40% of the time to make it a worthwhile call. If you had a few less *****it would be a much easier call on pot odds alone.
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