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piestack - yes
dalefryface - no
betfair customer services - no
do wah diddy - yes
dalefryface - no
betfair customer services - no
do wah diddy - yes
Hey Keith
I genuinely wanted you to qualify instead of one of the others that kept talking German to each other but especially after how vocal I was about bethammer soft-playing against me in a satellite, I wasn't gonna do the same.
From memory, I think I only called 4 shoves from you - once when I had AQ, twice with AK and the only time I called light with K4 was SB vs BB when you had about 2k *****to my near 30k, and blinds at 300/600.
To be honest, I think you should have qualified and I was hoping you'd notice what strategy I was using and how bad the other two where when we went 4 handed when, given the chip stacks, I didn't touch your BB in about a dozen orbits yet raised the other 2 guys BB 100% of the time. They stupidly stayed off each other completely even when 3 handed hoping to catch me which of course cost the bigger of the 2 stacks his seat when my J6o crushed his a5.
When we first went 4 handed, I think the stacks were roughly
you: 3k
me: 22k
german1: 9k
german2: 8k
In terms of my own seat, it was ideal for me that you were so short stacked and sitting where you were cos it meant I could pound on the other guys (who would be less likely to gamble against me when you were so short). Then when you were all on similar short stacks I could shove every hand until 3 handed, at which point I can then shove any hand I like the look of or fold to let the other 2 similar shortstacks clash.
Bit of an essay but the long and the short of it was that I wanted you to stay in on the same stack picking up one set of blinds every orbit so you could have readily shoved on my BB every time.
I genuinely wanted you to qualify instead of one of the others that kept talking German to each other but especially after how vocal I was about bethammer soft-playing against me in a satellite, I wasn't gonna do the same.
From memory, I think I only called 4 shoves from you - once when I had AQ, twice with AK and the only time I called light with K4 was SB vs BB when you had about 2k *****to my near 30k, and blinds at 300/600.
To be honest, I think you should have qualified and I was hoping you'd notice what strategy I was using and how bad the other two where when we went 4 handed when, given the chip stacks, I didn't touch your BB in about a dozen orbits yet raised the other 2 guys BB 100% of the time. They stupidly stayed off each other completely even when 3 handed hoping to catch me which of course cost the bigger of the 2 stacks his seat when my J6o crushed his a5.
When we first went 4 handed, I think the stacks were roughly
you: 3k
me: 22k
german1: 9k
german2: 8k
In terms of my own seat, it was ideal for me that you were so short stacked and sitting where you were cos it meant I could pound on the other guys (who would be less likely to gamble against me when you were so short). Then when you were all on similar short stacks I could shove every hand until 3 handed, at which point I can then shove any hand I like the look of or fold to let the other 2 similar shortstacks clash.
Bit of an essay but the long and the short of it was that I wanted you to stay in on the same stack picking up one set of blinds every orbit so you could have readily shoved on my BB every time.
Hey Keith
I genuinely wanted you to qualify instead of one of the others that kept talking German to each other but especially after how vocal I was about bethammer soft-playing against me in a satellite, I wasn't gonna do the same.
From memory, I think I only called 4 shoves from you - once when I had AQ, twice with AK and the only time I called light with K4 was SB vs BB when you had about 2k *****to my near 30k, and blinds at 300/600.
To be honest, I think you should have qualified and I was hoping you'd notice what strategy I was using and how bad the other two where when we went 4 handed when, given the chip stacks, I didn't touch your BB in about a dozen orbits yet raised the other 2 guys BB 100% of the time. They stupidly stayed off each other completely even when 3 handed hoping to catch me which of course cost the bigger of the 2 stacks his seat when my J6o crushed his a5.
When we first went 4 handed, I think the stacks were roughly
you: 3k
me: 22k
german1: 9k
german2: 8k
In terms of my own seat, it was ideal for me that you were so short stacked and sitting where you were cos it meant I could pound on the other guys (who would be less likely to gamble against me when you were so short). Then when you were all on similar short stacks I could shove every hand until 3 handed, at which point I can then shove any hand I like the look of or fold to let the other 2 similar shortstacks clash.
Bit of an essay but the long and the short of it was that I wanted you to stay in on the same stack picking up one set of blinds every orbit so you could have readily shoved on my BB every time.
I genuinely wanted you to qualify instead of one of the others that kept talking German to each other but especially after how vocal I was about bethammer soft-playing against me in a satellite, I wasn't gonna do the same.
From memory, I think I only called 4 shoves from you - once when I had AQ, twice with AK and the only time I called light with K4 was SB vs BB when you had about 2k *****to my near 30k, and blinds at 300/600.
To be honest, I think you should have qualified and I was hoping you'd notice what strategy I was using and how bad the other two where when we went 4 handed when, given the chip stacks, I didn't touch your BB in about a dozen orbits yet raised the other 2 guys BB 100% of the time. They stupidly stayed off each other completely even when 3 handed hoping to catch me which of course cost the bigger of the 2 stacks his seat when my J6o crushed his a5.
When we first went 4 handed, I think the stacks were roughly
you: 3k
me: 22k
german1: 9k
german2: 8k
In terms of my own seat, it was ideal for me that you were so short stacked and sitting where you were cos it meant I could pound on the other guys (who would be less likely to gamble against me when you were so short). Then when you were all on similar short stacks I could shove every hand until 3 handed, at which point I can then shove any hand I like the look of or fold to let the other 2 similar shortstacks clash.
Bit of an essay but the long and the short of it was that I wanted you to stay in on the same stack picking up one set of blinds every orbit so you could have readily shoved on my BB every time.
I'm not fussed Bluff (no friends on the poker table imo) just curious.
As I was sat in the seat I was wondering what I would do If i were you and it was a touch off putting!
As it happened i think I only pushed about 4 times and you had a hand every time, but i did wonder if i would get away with pushing much more and you might let me off.
GL Sunday
As I was sat in the seat I was wondering what I would do If i were you and it was a touch off putting!
As it happened i think I only pushed about 4 times and you had a hand every time, but i did wonder if i would get away with pushing much more and you might let me off.
GL Sunday
Our first chance to see betfairs new approach to collusion begins with this thread.
You were imagining being bluffdaddy and were slightly put off surely not.
Seriously though i think this one is a good topic. I think their is no problems being a bit light in raising into someone you like at the table as opposed to someone you dont which is what bluff prob done.
However he made the right calls to your pushes as well so played fine imo.
Seriously though i think this one is a good topic. I think their is no problems being a bit light in raising into someone you like at the table as opposed to someone you dont which is what bluff prob done.
However he made the right calls to your pushes as well so played fine imo.
IMAKE 20 Nov 10:24
Our first chance to see betfairs new approach to collusion begins with this thread.
Not really. I've made it clear that I didn't touch Keiths BB for purely strategic reasons benefitting my own qualification, not his ie I wanted to get *all* 3 remaining players down to a similarly short stack size so that by the time it went 3 handed (with 2 seats up for grabs) that I had such a significant chip lead that my own qualification was as good as assured.
If I had targeted Keith the same as I did the others then the risk to me would have been that 3 handed, despite my chip lead, the others would only be one double up away from my stack.
The HH shows this is what happened. I raised the other 2 every single hand until all 3 including Keith were all on about 3k-4k and me on 30k, at which point I either shoved every hand (including on Keiths BB) or folded to let the others clash.
I called Keiths shoves every time my hand or stack sizes dictated it was correct to do so but with the strategy employed above, I could argue that folding AQ and AK would have still been strategically correct.
Like I say, I would have liked Keith to qualify but it didn't affect any of my decisions in pots.
Our first chance to see betfairs new approach to collusion begins with this thread.
Not really. I've made it clear that I didn't touch Keiths BB for purely strategic reasons benefitting my own qualification, not his ie I wanted to get *all* 3 remaining players down to a similarly short stack size so that by the time it went 3 handed (with 2 seats up for grabs) that I had such a significant chip lead that my own qualification was as good as assured.
If I had targeted Keith the same as I did the others then the risk to me would have been that 3 handed, despite my chip lead, the others would only be one double up away from my stack.
The HH shows this is what happened. I raised the other 2 every single hand until all 3 including Keith were all on about 3k-4k and me on 30k, at which point I either shoved every hand (including on Keiths BB) or folded to let the others clash.
I called Keiths shoves every time my hand or stack sizes dictated it was correct to do so but with the strategy employed above, I could argue that folding AQ and AK would have still been strategically correct.
Like I say, I would have liked Keith to qualify but it didn't affect any of my decisions in pots.
If you go easy on any forumite or m8 then it's collusion FULL STOP
Does make you laugh everyone moaning about collusion then a post like this. It would appear there should be one rule for forumites and another rule for everyone else.
FF I agree 100%.
In general though as I said, its collusion no if's or but's
In general though as I said, its collusion no if's or but's
But we can see from bluffs post he clearly understands the situation,and is exploiting it,thats the game.If kieth had been a mid stack iam sure he would adopt the same strategy, so i see no collusion.
Simon - technically youre right but the reality (imfho) is most people don't really try to be "clever" against friends, and maybe soft on blinds. I'd comfortably jam v a friend knowing he'll prob keep his calling range quite tight. i know that in dreamteam it was msm city even for the most honest players.
as an a'side your grammar need's urgent sor'ting. ;)
as an a'side your grammar need's urgent sor'ting. ;)
Anyone that thinks I have colluded here either doesn't understand what I have written or doesn't understand big stack satellite bubble strategy...or both.
I made no attempt to communicate my hands or strategy to Keith and the HH will substantiate this. I have simply said after the event that I believe he should have recognised what strategy I was adopting and used it to his advantage by stealing my BB every time.
As soon as the others stacks became roughly level with Keiths, I targeted them all equally, and I eventually knocked Keith out.
The strategy I adopted isn't difficult to understand - keep the shortie in so the midstacks don't gamble against my stealing their every blind, allowing me to drive them down to shortstacks too. That way, when the game goes 3 handed, I'm up against 2 shortstacks with me sitting on a monster stack rather than up against 2 mid stacks.
I made no attempt to communicate my hands or strategy to Keith and the HH will substantiate this. I have simply said after the event that I believe he should have recognised what strategy I was adopting and used it to his advantage by stealing my BB every time.
As soon as the others stacks became roughly level with Keiths, I targeted them all equally, and I eventually knocked Keith out.
The strategy I adopted isn't difficult to understand - keep the shortie in so the midstacks don't gamble against my stealing their every blind, allowing me to drive them down to shortstacks too. That way, when the game goes 3 handed, I'm up against 2 shortstacks with me sitting on a monster stack rather than up against 2 mid stacks.
Don't think anybody has said you were colluding.
I'll say once again though just to make it clear, in answer to the orginal fred question, no I wouldn't go easy on a m8 and YES it is colluding if you do.
I'll say once again though just to make it clear, in answer to the orginal fred question, no I wouldn't go easy on a m8 and YES it is colluding if you do.
and bluf I'm getting the impression you think you're some kind of genius for employing this basic sat tactic. No need to keep waffling on explaining something that is totally standard.
There is only 1 man on this site that can sort out this pickle....
Columbo... where is he...
Columbo... where is he...
I do think I'm some kind of genius, yes, but it's entirely unrelated to poker.
this all seems standard to me too. And let's be honest here, if there were 2 idiots abusing the chat policy and chatting to each other in another language. who wouldn't want to see one of them busted out?!
1. Don't be so silly you can collude unless you have 2 people who have actually spoken to each other and developed a plan.
2. I was just curious as I think if I was in bluffs position, i would have tried my hardest to get my seat and be a nice as posiible to the person i "knew".
3. I just played it normally, as did bluff, it was just during the game i wondered whether or not to adapt my strategy as i thought i may be able to get away with pushing more often than normal as Bluff might go easy on me (this was proved not the case when he called me the first 3 times i did it!!)
2. I was just curious as I think if I was in bluffs position, i would have tried my hardest to get my seat and be a nice as posiible to the person i "knew".
3. I just played it normally, as did bluff, it was just during the game i wondered whether or not to adapt my strategy as i thought i may be able to get away with pushing more often than normal as Bluff might go easy on me (this was proved not the case when he called me the first 3 times i did it!!)
2. I was just curious as I think if I was in bluffs position, i would have tried my hardest to get my seat and be a nice as posiible to the person i "knew".
FFS keith that is just plain wrong to me and a bit of a fking joke. The amount you are sat at the same table as doobs and others from here, it doesn't look very good for ppl who are not in this little clique does it?
The player pool in these mtts on betfair is really small anyway, and the fact a group of you have met each other and are m8s etc makes it even worse, cause the chances of you being on the same table are pretty fkin big.
FFS keith that is just plain wrong to me and a bit of a fking joke. The amount you are sat at the same table as doobs and others from here, it doesn't look very good for ppl who are not in this little clique does it?
The player pool in these mtts on betfair is really small anyway, and the fact a group of you have met each other and are m8s etc makes it even worse, cause the chances of you being on the same table are pretty fkin big.
But its the principle keith. So 3 left in a sat and I'm sat with yourself and blufdaddy or doobs or whoever. What am I supposed to think?
Where is columbo when u need him, he would tell u if there was any wrong doing... he cracked the d2n bandits operation....
Excuse me "Operation Cheesy Puff" was my idea and I foiled the D2N bandits and not Columbo.
Remaining forever vigilant
Juliet Bravo
Remaining forever vigilant
Juliet Bravo
I'd try my best to knock out Doobs obv and you and me qualify Simon (as anyone who saw me and Doobs HU at the comp at the empire would testify)
my apologies juliet, i did not realise there was another super sleuth on the site, where is columbo anyway? he would normally have something to report by now....
lol at Keith colluding with me. He gets way too much pleasure donking me after calling my reraises with 53 off to do that. ;)
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