Sky should let the handbrake off Chris Froome

think a lot is being made of a few hundred metres of acceleration up a climb.

Stop the race 20 seconds after Nibalis 3 bursts today & he looks head & shoulders above the sky 2.
However the reality is hes no better climber he just has the ability to accelerate sharply uphill for short periods of time whilst the others close in whilst hes recovering.

i think this tedious thread can now be put to sleep and not before time.

Sir Denis, I missed the stage.  Did Wiggo drop Froome in the mountains today?

didnt drop him but Nibalis last attack Froome couldnt respond & indicated to Wiggins to go & chase which he did all came back together ' the top of the Peyrousourde

i really hoped this thread would die a well-deserved death but there's always one more idiotic comment!! why the hell would wiggo want to drop froome??!

geoff - nonsense

aaah Clay - hi there!! will u be tipping Froome to win the sprint on the champs elysses??

Sir Denis, the way you said thread over I assumed something dramatic had happened today.  I saw that one of the times Nibali tried to get away, Wiggo did the work for a change and Froome took his wheel for a short while.  Was there some other incident that I missed?

absolute rubbish...the stage wasn't taxing in anyway today...froome dragged wiggins back twice...the stage might have been different had there been pace on from the start of the stage...but because of this it was easy for wiggins

sir denis i don't think you have said anything of any interest on any of the cycling threads, your knowledge defies me

does that make sense to anyone else?? ^^^^^

must be watching a different race to me Clay but on this yrs Tour De France about 4 hours ago Froome quite clearly indicates to Brad to chase Nibali on his last attack(as it Froomes job to respond the only assumption you could take from that is he couldnt @ that moment in time)

yes, but he still managed to stay on Wiggo's wheel when wiggo pulled them back in.  And on Nibali' previous attempts it was Froome who had worked to pull him back.

The question you need to ask is, if Wiggo had been working for Froome all tour, how much energy would have been in their respective tanks at this moment in time.

i wouldnt bother arguing with Clay. He's got it into his head that Froome is the greatest climber since Lazarus and Wiggo only gets up the hills by attaching an invisible string to his back

perhaps next year we will find out...Wiggo has committed to working for Froome in future TdF's.

I can confirm that Froome indicated to Wiggins it was up to him to go with Nibali. Froome looked cooked.

The best climber the world has ever seen is ............................ Jack.

Anyone read Jack and the Beanstalk?

He is the best climber in this race. Contador will tear them both a new one next year and we all know it

Has he found a new masking agent then?

Clay, if u will lay me evens on Sky's GC rider v Contador in 2013 I would gladly take it

Same old boring Eton Hogg contributing nothing except 5hite. People have their opinions yet you act like 4 year old with smilies galore.

Bit harsh Joe .... seems he is putting his money where his mouth is to me.

harry callaghan, you're a mug. you're talking with your pocket because you bet on a domestique and are upset he's not going to win the tour for you. if you didn't trade out at the gift price of 6/1, you need to lick your wounds, shut the **** up and actually think about how grand tour cycling (a team sport) actually works.

anyone that has a clue bet on wiggins at 16s 14s and 12s after the course announcement and contador banning. we're the ones cleaning up on an outstanding sky display headed by the best time trialist in the world.

now go away and have a think for once.

lucky your a cheaky Twa/

well stand up those that have the 16's, 14 and 12's

how am i a mug betting on froome at 36 pre tour and of course i'm greened up you baffoun

if he hadn't lost 1 and half minutes to a puncture you wouldn't be saying what you are now

what an outstanding write up your a hero for getting the price obviously backed when contador and schleck were still in...outstanding pick

LOL youre a ****ing mug. Contador is nothing without drugs and the authorities are on to him now. He would've lost this tour.

Schleck was the biggest lay ever. I had him at 3/1 last year and the **** couldn't even take on Evans. He's the most incomplete top rider going and his brother has been found out. I layed him as big as I could afford at 5/1, 6/1, 7/1 this year.

Doesn't matter whether Froome got a flat or not. He'd still lose 90 seconds in time trial.

I got over a ton on at average odds of about 23-1. C'mon Wiggo! Most placed in December before Contrador (sic) was banned. looking forward to having him back for the Vuelta ... saw some early odds, he's 4/9.

Contador is one of the best riders I have ever seen. The guy has it all. Brilliant TT and brilliant climber. It's a very potent mix

Clay


its the potent mix that sets him apart imo!

ye brilliant can't wait for the great man to return...giro did for him last year

Geoff - you don't know what you are talking about

Why isnt he in this years Tour Clay?

Clay - will you be investing with Contador at 4/9 or too short for you?

Sorry forgot contaminated beef   PMSL.

HoD - no but he will win. I hope this helps

Yes - think he probably will but a bit short for me. Who will lead for Sky?

Froome?

I hope so. Uran probably not good enough.

Froome could have won this stage easily

not sure about easily, but he would have had a good chance, not sure why they didn't let him go Wiggins would have only lost a few seconds to him anyway. I guess when your this close to winning you dont want to do anything stupid.

Certainly lacks a cycling brain does Froome.

can'T understand why he wasn't allowed to go when Nibali was already dropped

Definitive evidence today me thinks  Thread over.  Congrats to all Froome supporters!

Three times he sat up. Not just waited. Actually sat up.

Cav backers on Sunday be warned that Sky will prob put all their riders around Wiggo in case a gust of wind hits him

evidence of what Ozy?? we all know Froome is stronger in the mountains but Bradley was still the 3rd strongest man out there today and beat some great climbers like Nibali, we all know his strength is his time trialing. Froome should have been allowed to go for the stage win but at most he gets 20 sec back on Wiggins will be intersting to hear what they said to each other.

Great climbers like Nibali.....really????? give over

ClayDavs knew.

Ok but Wiggins is supposed to be weak in the mountains and he was the 3rd strongest out there today.

Reminds me of Riis and Ullrich in 96'.

Ullrich got his reward the following year.

Froome will get his chance next year.

The problem is it will be a much stronger Tour next year. Brad has won a very very weak Tour when the one man who could beat him wasn't allowed to

Brad virtually admitting Froome was held back today

Are they going to allow doping then next year?

Ex dopers allowed providing they bring better masking agents.

Rumours of an ITT on Mont Ventoux next year - Froome might take the decisions out of SKY's hands.

Froome certainly has nothing to complain about. He had a number of teams interested in him after the Vuelta but he chose to sign a two year contract to play Wiggo's ****.

F@g as in public schoolboy parlance. This betfair political correctness **** really ****s me off.

Sounds like Brad didnt want to let him off the leash which is dissapointing.

Tainted tour

ok maybe i was a bit harsh but annoying that we cant discuss a subject without resorting to ar5ey remarks.

Tainted tour

Couldn't agree more, what with the drugs scandals that have happened this year, well said.

Froome very disrespectful looking round today showing off.He is a number 2  does he have to keep reminding everybody how good he is.Wiggins is too nice standing for this nonsense imagine what Lance would have said and done to such an  egotistical  domestique probably put a minute into him on a later climb,Its killing Froome that Wiggins is going to be the first british winner and next year with Contador back he may get run over lets hope so.

agree gom

In fairness to Froome all he was looking for was the signal to go & win the stage which listening to the interviews he never got.
Brad was too busy thinking about himself.

Wiggins said things like "we were in bits n the final climb" - really? Valverde started the climb 2 mins clear and held it for most of the climb, until Pinaut and Froome put the foot down.
Hardly flying up the climbs.
Wiggo would get smashed if there were decent climbers in the race

yep,the race needed better climbers for sure, a clean Contador and Andy Schleck eg.
Maybe then we would not have had the most boring mountain stages that i can recall!!

Hats off to Sky,they got it right,and deserve victory,and great for England of course.

But the race itself- boring!

yep,the race needed better climbers for sure, a clean Contador and Andy Schleck eg.
Maybe then we would not have had the most boring mountain stages that i can recall!!

Hats off to Sky,they got it right,and deserve victory,and great for England of course.

But the race itself- boring!

the sky train would destroy schleck and (a clean) contador

geoff m
19 Jul 12 16:50 Joined: 23 Feb 03 | Topic/replies: 4,160 | Blogger: geoff m's blog
Ex dopers allowed providing they bring better masking agents.




brilliant

thats your opinion Sir Denis-fair enough,i totally disagree.
hopefully next year we will find out who is right.

One thing i do know,Schleck is a far better climber that any of Skys rivals this year.So is a clean Contador imo,although not so sure as Schleck.

Only chance A Schleck has is if one of the ITTs is mountains.

talking about the mountains not his chance of winning,think we all know his weakness at time trialling.
Although to be fair he actually now has a win in the race.

lol the wiggins doubters

great ride by Froome

better by Wiggo

Froome is admitting Wiggo is better: "As we saw he's [Brad] stronger than me," said Froome. "I'm very happy. The [Team Sky] goal this year was to win the Tour with Bradley. To be second is an added plus."

Brailsford, Yates obviously knew it too.

The whole might of Team Sky won't convince a few doubters though .....

HoD,
Agree.

The strength of Sky not only put Brad in a very commanding position but also Froome.  Reading this thread it seems like some think Brad has had the help of a whole team, whilst Froome has done it himself.  Part of me wonders if roles had been different within Sky, Porte or Rogers in Froomes 2nd in command role, whether Porte/Rogers would have been up there like Froome.  On more than one occasion Skys teamwork meant their nearest rivals got isolated, whilst Froome and Wiggins were still left and able to work together against rivals.  When Nibali attacked on stage17(? maybe 16), both Wiggins and Froome worked in tandem to reel him back, leaving both stronger than Nibali when they caught him and able to ride away from him late on.

No doubting that Froome is talented, but Brad was better this Tour, and both benefitted from being in the strongest team.

Chapeau Brad.
Chapeau Chris.
Chapeau Cav, EBH, Porte, Rogers, Knees, Bernie, Sivtsov.

Clays vision still misted.

3 times Froome sat up and waited for Brad on Thursday. Distant memory eh guys? God only knows how much time Froome would've taken off Brad in the mountains if he had constantly attacked.

Wiggins has won the tour because of his time trialling,and his ability to climb well enough to keep the time gap gained in the TT.

As for whose the best climber,hard to say for sure unless they ride against each other,but i would suspect that Froome would have the edge.

If we have less TT next year,maybe we will find out more.

I do think a fair point is that Froome as well as wiggins gained a lot cos of the work done by the rest of the team in the mountains,that has to be considered.

Froome is clearly a stronger climber but Wiggins detractors are looking at a Froome acceleration and extrapolating that to him riding that pace all the way up the hill. Not happening.

Wiggins will never have an explosive turn of pace up a climb but he'll ride tempo up them all day long. Thus, the most damage Froome would do on a climb is going to be a minute here, a minute there. He's not going to put five minutes into the bloke.

With 100km of time trialling in this years tour it's hardly a foregone conclusion either way.

In a future tour with more mountains, it's entirely feasible Sky will build a team round Froome but given the magnitude of the achievement for British cycling you can hardly blame Sky for taking the safest bet this time round.

It in no way denigrates Wiggins achievement either. It's not like the plan changed in the race. Before the tour everybody knew what they were going to do and detractors were scoffing. "They won't be able to control the race, Wiggins will crack etc."

And now that none of those have happened there has to be something else wrong instead.

How could a team be a strong one unless at least some of the riders were almost as good as the team leader? What use would they be? As such, a degree of confusion about the team members' relative merits becomes inevitable.

Good point Laroche.

Also worth pointing out that Wiggins would have won TdF with no timetrials this year ... remove all the time he made on them ... and he still wins!!

Froome's mechanical on St1 would have made a difference to GC then too! However, they never raced up a single mountain against each other; we'll never know what would have happened. CF's acceleraton v BW's metronomic grinding.

Froome is a far better climber. I hope this helps

Talk of an ITT up Mont Ventoux next year. That would be some stage and after a limp tour for lovers of mountain stages the organizers may well have something special lined up next time. Hope so as it would be a proper test like the Alpe d'Huez  in 2004. Then we'd see who is the best in the mountains.
Anyway, well done Brad. No doubt he was the best rider in the race this year and his fantastic achievement will bring him deserved and enduring fame.
Have you ever seen the yellow jersey lead out a team mate on the Champs-Elysees like Brad did today? I haven't.

think if they had gone into the mountains without TT's,then we would have had a totally different scenario and a different attitude amongst the riders.
stupid to say wiggins would still have won,imo of course.

I don;t like ITT in mountains to be honest. True climbers can quicken.  ITT is all about steady pace

I don't like the idea of ITT's in the mountains, defeats the purpose really. However, given it's the 100th race next year and the somewhat questionable parcours for 2012 then I expect 2013 will have a lot more mountain top finishes.

resding this, it would appear Clay has done his conkers laying Wiggo.

*reading

no

It's a pity Froome lost 1m 25s in stage 1, because of the flat tyre. He would have been only 42s behind higgins after the first time trail, and maybe he would have been given greater freedom in the mountain stages to possibly win the tour.

*wiggins
*trial

Agreed. And he never tried in Saturday;s time trial. Under instruction to allow Wiggo to win and make him look like a deserved Champion. Watch Froome's ride again. He was never at full pelt

ClayDavis     23 Jul 12 18:52 
Agreed. And he never tried in Saturday;s time trial. Under instruction to allow Wiggo to win and make him look like a deserved Champion. Watch Froome's ride again. He was never at full pelt



give it up man.....

Froome could have won the 2011 Vuelta but he came second. He could have won the 2012 tour but he came second. Is he a man or a mouse?

Pity he didnt put in a decent stint in today.

clearly p1ssed off with riding for others. thought the tour had took it out of him but bounced back in the Time Trial .
Anyway should be nominated no1 for Vuelta but doubt Brad will go & give him a hand.

I think I mentioned before he accepted Sky's money and a two year contract knowing he'd be riding for Wiggins. The thing is, he made his decision after the Vuelta, a race in which neither Sky nor Wiggins supported him for the win even though it was obvious he was the strongest rider in the race. I doubt he is hacked off riding for others. He doesn't come across as stupid. I think he's comfortable without the responsibility of leading a team.

ClayDavis 23 Jul 12 18:52
Agreed. And he never tried in Saturday;s time trial. Under instruction to allow Wiggo to win and make him look like a deserved Champion. Watch Froome's ride again. He was never at full pelt


Did he allow Wiggo to win the Olympic Time trial as well? Ta

yep of course. took a back seat in the Road Race as well so brad could do a load more work & let him look good.
Generous to a fault.