Ski jumping Engelberg still not settled

Hi!

Where can U see 17.12 race?

Its been all the time 18.12 race which is open. 17.12 is betting start day and 18.12 the day when the race is. Its always been like that.

Maybe U should buy Morge or then be lucky. He can win tomorrow. The race which was today was last weekends race.

ouch ok

Tommorow's competition starts with qualifying at 12:15 CET, BF missed change of schedule which was announced on Monday. Markets went in play at 11:00 CET with start of today's qualification and the competition ended with the cancellation of the 2nd run. There is no competition from 17th to 18th, so markets must count for today's competition and new markets loaded for tommorrow!

I can see in my betting history for example Lillehammer. Saturdays race was 03-04.Dec. Sundays 05.12. Just the same thing than this. Ski-jumping goes inplay on Qual day and so did today.

What do you think that 18 Dec means. U think that means 17 Dec race?

Lillehammer were only two events, this weekend are three. Markets go in play with start of qualification. Other than in Lillehammer qualifying for Saturday is on Saturday, so when the market is announced for 17th - 18th, does it count for 17th or for 18th, as there are 2 events, one each day? It obviously counts for the competition that started at the time markets went in play.

Its only two events in this weekend too, just the same as Lillehammer. Todays race was replaced on Engelberg.

Ok, what so ever. But there is said that race day is 18 Dec and its still there. Its quite difficult to fight agaist that.

There was no reason to put markets in play for the competion of 18th, as qualifying will start on Saturday 12:15. Markets go in play at start of qualification, that was today 11:00, and that was qualifying for the event which is finished already.

there are three events in Engelberg, look here: http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/disciplines/live-timing/live-ski-jumping.html

There is no matter wether that was in play or not. And offcourse it should be in play because they jumped on Engelberg and everybody surely can see when the race is its 18 Dec.

What do U think are U right or wrong. If seeing things like visitor. I have to say im 99% correct. But if U trust your sight U really should bet Morge HARD now.

I say it one time more and then going to bar ;)

Its always been like that. 17-18 Dec means that event goes in-play 17 Dec and race is 18 Dec. Just the same as always. If U have betted ski-jumping before you can check that on profits and loss.

This week is different, because there are 3 events, qualifying on same day as competition each day, like on Sunday on other weekends!

Markets do not go in play on Saturday for Sundays competion, but at start of qualifying on Sunday, so every event in Engelberg is like a Sunday's competition on other weekends.

If you really think so bet Morge and thats it. Im not going to argue with U. No matter when qual is. Race is 18.12.

Nowhere is written that competion is on 18th, but that competition starts with qualification Friday at 11:00!

This stinks. I'm not talking through my pocket but common sense says that market is for todays competition. Bad market managing from BF (like always).

No way BF can settle this for the competion of 18th!

I'm afraid that there is no other way anymore. Now it is clearly for todays competition. However it is not impossible from them to void markets because of controversy. They have done it before. Anything could happen...

I'll take anything with joy being laid on yesterday'S winners

I regret to say but there is no chance that this will be settled on yesterdays event for 1 reason.

The market info says Hillsize 137 meter. Yesterdays event was 142 meters...

So jou jou farming is right, it will be settled on todays result.

They cant settle it anymore after yesterdays results so todays competition or void. If they are going to void, hopefully they do it before todays competition, not after it. I'm sure that someone has emailed them from this situation.

today's competition is on the same hill (HS 142), they won't void for this reason. As I said, there is no way this will be settled on today's result, It's a case for IBAS if they do so.

It is HS137 in Engelberg but I got your point.

bb66 you are wrong. Look at the official fis homepage. Today it is declared as 137 HS, yesterday it was declared as 142 HS.

Today will be the first event of the weekend declared as 137 HS. If you dont believe jsut check the fis homepage.

They doesn't declare hillsize, it is what it is. I think HS142 is there by accident. Maybe Harrachov:s hill is HS142.

official result from yesterday has HS 137m:http://www.fis-ski.com/pdf/2011/JP/3008/2011JP3008RL.pdf

I have read the different opinions about this topic and I am also involved in this market.

So, first of all .The HS hill size from any location could not change from day to day. The
Fridays competition was still on HS137 and not on HS142 (this was only for information,
that the competition replaced Harrachov.

And it is also clear, that this market should be settled on Fridays result . So , I agree
with user Mande and user bestchamp should better deal with the rules from winter sports events.

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/1228.html?cal_suchsector=JP&event_id=28348

17.12.2010     3008         Engelberg     SUI     HS142     M     WC     Replaces: Harrachov

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/610.html?sector=JP&raceid=3017

Place           Engelberg (SUI)           Discipline           HS142
Date           17.12.2010



HS137 - 17 - 18 Dec...

18.12.2010     3130           Engelberg     SUI     HS137     M     WC


I really cant see ANY reason where is the problem.

This is so clear than ever.

Contacted betfair, they told me they settle on todays result.

Icontacted them as well, and I can guarantee, that if they settle the markets on today'S results they will resettle them on Monday!

Unfortunately you will have no markets for today's competition in the end

And probably no market in tomorrows competition either :D

HOHOHO : ) Morgi won. Happy now?

so it doesn't matter for the winner's market, but it matters for the top 3 market!

OKI OKI! U bet every 1.01 "after" race.... great!

and you lay every competitor for 1.01 hoping for someone's misclick, or chaos like this weekend, even greater!

Well have to say i hate just those guys who do that. For example these ski tours HCP starts and guys crying.

This is very interesting case because I cant see any aspects at all witch could tell that 18 Dec race was 17 Dec :) Then was harrachows replaced race.

Perhaps they only settle the winners market. Cause Morgenstern won so or so both competitions.


There is also an official statement of betfair regarding settlement:

Due to the uncertainty over the format of this weekend's competition, a decision around settlement of relevant markets will be delayed while we seek further official clarification.

We hope to make a decision within 24 hours.  In the meantime, please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused.

Best Regards,

Betfair Winter Sports

they have realised now what they've messed up. I agree that they should settle the winner's market immediately, but as I phoned them it seems that they don't do it.

As they had the markets open for both events there will be no other decision possible for the markets with different results in both events as to void them.

No reason to void. 18 Dec is correct and thats it.

sorry that I have to say that, jou jou, but you're a stupid mug! Yesterday'S markets had to count for Friday, as they were open during today's competition there was room for mistakes, winner's market is rescued by the same result for Friday and Saturday.

Sorry to U too but just the same idea here :) Seems like this is some shouting competition.

Tell me one reason why there is some problems and what is so hard to understand.

Race date is 18 Dec. All other doesnt count. Its your own shame if bet 1.01 "after" race and going to make SW. Then crying if youre wrong.

17 Dec race never been on target.

Betfair cannot change their settlement instructions every hour!! Otherwise they have to
pay their clients , because they're earn enough premium charge!

jou jou, I explained it in many of my previous posts in this thread, many other people understood, even the operators of the BF market finally got it, but you're too silly for it. I'm glad I took your money on Morgi!

Lets see how this goes finally. There is no reason why to cancel bets. But be my guest still.

Why do you think markets are not paid yet? BF now knows they made a mistake by not considering the change of schedule due to the 3rd competiton taken over from Harrachov that ran on Friday.

So what?? That Harrachov competition has nothing to do with this 17-18 Dec competition. It was scheduled to race 18 Dec and so did.

BF still considering what to do. Havent paid anything yet and thats only cause Ure explaining your own things.

I'll tell you a last time: There was a competition with preceded by its qualification starting at 11:00 when markets went in play on Friday taken over from Harrachov, and there was another competition on Saturday with qualification starting at 12:15. there was no competition starting on Friday and lasting till Saturday.

I'm sure you don't get it now as you dont want to realise you'll don't get my money.

Sorry guys, I know that was very bad English in my last post

I dont want your money, I only want my money. U said that there was not competition starting Friday and lasting till saturday :D and that is yours explanation. I only tell that youre not going very strong. Look at Fis homepage and there u see.

http://www.fis-ski.com/uk/604/1228.html?cal_suchsector=JP&event_id=28348

17.12.2010     3129         Engelberg     SUI     HS137     M     QUA
18.12.2010     3130         Engelberg     SUI     HS137     M     WC

That is the race what was open on Betfair. There is allthetime some schedule changes and its still there 17-18.12.2010 was scheduled HS137!

Its not relevant when the Qual is. Race was how it used to be 18.12.2010.

Unbelievable how U bet eyes closed and cant see that 17-18 HS 137 on Betfairs site.

I cant see how U could win this case.

Do U know how funny you sound.

U said that there was not competition starting Friday and lasting till saturday :D and that is yours explanation

Still U bet some 17.12 race and think youre right Even if Betfair allthetime says 17-18 race!

How could 18 Dec race end 17 Dec!

Besides its been many times qualification has been on same day than race because of bad wheather and still it doesnt matter what comes to betting.

Now im really looking forward what U say next ;)

I have made me as clear as possible.

Thank U Kuusamo!

HS142 - 26-28 Nov That was Kuusamos thing. I can see that on profits and losts.

Qual should be on 26 Nov. But schedule changed and it was 28 Nov as the race too.

This is closed i think. What about U? Sounds like there is no just no problems.

"17.12.2010     3129         Engelberg     SUI     HS137     M     QUA"

That was qualification for Friday's race, not for Saturday's race.

http://www.fis-ski.com/pdf/2011/JP/3129/2011JP3129PROG.pdf

There you can see official program.

Samstag, 18. Dezember 2010

12.15 Uhr Qualifikation
13.45 Uhr 1. Durchgang FIS Weltcup Skispringen
anschliessend Finaldurchgang und Siegerehrung

Betfair had wrong information when they informed that race is 17-18. It was only 18.12. if they meant the Saturday's race.

Sorry one more..

Betfair goes in-play when Qual is SCHEDULED to start like 17! - 18 Dec or 26! - 28 Nov. That is the first date and the second is race time.

Betfair really cant know every thing what is happening with timetables and change times alltheway.

Good night!

thank you coolmenthos, that's another confirmation of my argument, I had only the timetable on http://www.fisskijumping.com/, which probably is not online on Monday. I really can't understand why jou jou insists on his wrong thinking.

"I'll tell you a last time: There was a competition with preceded by its qualification starting at 11:00 when markets went in play on Friday taken over from Harrachov, and there was another competition on Saturday with qualification starting at 12:15. there was no competition starting on Friday and lasting till Saturday."


See Kuusamo! Last time sure! Hahahahaa.

NO even that little REASON LEFT WHY NOT TO PAY 18 DEC race result.

This is just how its always been! Thank U! Been nice to chat with so smart guy as U are.

Tell me who is that person who doesnt understand!?

What are U going to cry next? Im waiting. Your arguments are going so sleepy. But so it usually does when youre not going strong and even U know it.

well, there is one correct argument, but you may find 100s that are wrong, so go to the pub and drink 10 beers. On Monday you'll wake up and find out you've won nothing, hopefully you lost a lot, while I'm collecting wins on Morgenstern, while top 3 market will be voided.

Do U know what bb66. U have written 10-20 messages and not a word which is correct. Do U want me to spell this case to U one more time?

Betfair says 17-18 race. Its subject there and no way to go wrong. 17 DEC is scheduled qual time but it can be when ever like Kuusamo but before race. Then markets goes in-play. Last day is race day 18 DEC!! Happy to you Morge won this race. But im wondering how is it possible you can write while cant read or not understanding what you read as we can see here and there.

sorry that I have to say that, bb66, but you're a stupid mug! OR how was it? ;)

I really want to see what is that reason why Betfair couldnt solve this market just as always.

Its not enough that bb66 got everything wrong and tried to win easy money "after" race so badly not even got time to read when the race is :D

What do you want to bet with me that I'm correct and you are wrong. You sound so sure, you must consider your odds are 1.05 or less. I'll hold that for the amount I backed Morgi on the winner's market.

Im maybe 1.01 ;)  What do you think your own odds are?

How on earth you still think you are correct - In your dreams? U loose big money when cant see how situations goes. I have told you everything. and because i ve betted other times too i know this things and luckyly i bet Kuusamo too. That is last piece of cake.

my odds are 1.001. I'll laugh on Monday, and now I'll put you on my ignore list, it's a waste of time to argue with such a stupid guy.

Im not sure are you going to get sleep tonight. Even youre not the smartest guy you seems to be scared like hell and for a reason.

Dont think what things are supporting you. Because there aint any.

ok, one last answer to you. My exposure on Morgi last night was a 5-digit number in €, and I slept very well. Now that the TV Program I watched is finished I go to bed and have an even better sleep.

And about my success in betting: During the last 3 months I won almost 20.000€ without paying premium tax!

... and I won that without taking much risks!!![:D]

Anyways, I was 100% right when I presumed that no market for todays competition. Actually no markets for any winter sports. :/

Goog morning!

There was flying hill competition some maybe 5 years ago. Then also some guys thought its only 1 days race but its 2..


18 Dec only 1 competition on Engelberg. This case is solved.

And I believe you won 20 000€, how could U lose? U bet only when races are over and if ure wrong U start big cry against Betfair.

morgenstern  won both days. there is no reason for a void of the winner market. top 3 should be voided. but nearly 24 hours over, they should find a decision ;-)

It's sad that mande is correct, no markets for today's ski jumping confirmed, I don't see any reason for this. The've missed start of women's Super Combined und refuse to load markets as they always do in tennis when a replacement happens even if the match has already started. Other markets are loaded after I requested them.

Ski jumping markets for the Fri/Sat event(s) will not be settled till Monday, as they need the decision of higher management level. What more to say?

Can only say that youre such a big cryer. U cause problems to us all. Nothing can be settled as normal way if Ure going to lose!!

Betfair said that it is Satudays race 18 Dec and that what it surely is.

jou jou, are you capable of reading and understanding what is written? look here: http://www.fis-ski.com/pdf/2011/JP/3129/2011JP3129PROG.pdf

AND SO WHAT?

Ive told U that race time is what matters. QUAL may be when ever.

Just like Kuusamo! There has been some changes on schedule BUT SO WHAT. Race Time is correct and there was only 1 race on 18 DEC,

1 Morge
2 Malys
3 Hauta

Surely some problems if several races on 18 DEC. But not.

Ure so out than noone can be and so poor.

[;)]with a[>o]

Question is why they dont settle the winners market. Morgenstern won on both days. For the Top3 markets i dont care much, because i am not involved :)

Now looking real good! :D

Qual schedule change is no reason to cancel bets. :))))))) And why would it be? If it would then many many bets cancelled on winter sports like Kuusamo.

Next comment after Betfair settles money on correct way. TY.

Im sorry you didnt check att all what are you betting for. 18 DEC!

your posts seem to be a desperate cry of anger trying to encourage you and refuse to accept you are wrong, they won't convince anyone.

it looks like they void all markets and also the winner market. poor decision, morgenstern won both days

that can't be serious winner's market MUST be settled for Morgenstern!

I don't like this either. Stupid decision by amateurs. I think wrong customers had winning positions.

Unbelievable.

How big better are you bb66. Betfair do what ever you want. Congratulations!

HAHAAAH, "poor decision" says guy who bets 1.01 17 DEC on 18 DEC race :)

The winner's market must be settled for Morgenstern, as he won both events, I'll fight this decision, if necessary at IBAS, BF does not what I want, but it confirmes that they where wrong and jou jou is the biggest mug in this forum.

Does anybody know, if there is a real chance to get the money back from Betfair , if we
bring this case to the IBAS.

@ Marketvisitor: I will tell you tommorrow, after I've contacted a friend in England, who is an insider in betting matters, but I've already protested against the decision concerning the winner's market. Maybe BF revises this decision on Monday.

I emailed them also protesting against voiding of winner market.

In my opinion there are no matter what the results were on Friday and Saturday. Coincidentally the winner was same in both events.

As Betfair pointed out there were confusion about the date 17.-18. in game rules as it could mean either one of the competitions due to that there were changes in schedule. I would have made the same decision as Betfair, based on the official time table that I posted here earlier too.

yes, the winner was the same by coincident, but what is the argument for a loser to want his bet void? Either he laid Morgi for Friday or for Saturday, anyway he thought the odds were in his favour, and the confusion on the date had no influence on the outcome of the bet, so there is no reason to void this market.

Let's say there is a player who does not know about the mess what did happened Friday and he comes to bet Saturday for the Saturday's race (That's what he thought). Because of what happened on Friday there are now available very good odds for any other athlete than Morgenstern to win. Then he made bets for any other than Morgenstern to win what he probably would NOT made without the mess in Friday because the odds would NOT be so good at that time. (That's due to that some people lay 1,01 etc. Morgenstern earlier and then would buy it back later even very low to make sure profit) So due to confusion on date the odds were distorted and some players were mislead to made bets that they would not normally make. It's not fair to them lose the money in Morgenstern win and only get void in Morgenstern not to win. It's lose-lose situation for them. So in my opinion it should be void in any cases because of the mess.

Well, imo betting is a matter of value. If a player laid Morgenstern he thought the odds were better than Morgi's chance of winning, so what's wrong with it, he had a value bet that almost won.

No, he had no chance on winning because of date error which was clear and mistake by Betfair.

BF's statement of Sunday says what I told them since Friday afternoon about the error they've made, but they refused the whole Saturday to admit it. If they had closed markets Saturday before the 2nd competition had started and established new markets, we could have had correct markets for Saturday (and Sunday of course), and Friday's markets could have been settled with voiding all bets placed after the finish of the competition.

Different to Mug jou jou I don't hesitate to admit when I'm wrong, and it seems the arguments of coolmenthos are mainly correct, so I fear we would have a very slim chance to get the wins paid applying to IBAS. Chances would be better if we had suffered losses to get them refunded, but in this situation, when we try to get wins paid, it is unlikely to be successful, as I was told from my friend.