North American
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Hi Guys,
Could someone explain the following to me please? I'm not new to Baseball, but am quite new to Baseball betting, so It'd be useful to find this out.
In tonight's game St Louis @ Cincinatti, I really fancy Cincinatti with the way Cueto's been pitching lately, however after reading all the usual analysis websites I read, I came across a term that I wasn't familiar with.
I was looking back at Cueto's last games against St Louis this season and he's "1-0 with three starts, but was tagged for 8 runs over 5 innings in a no-decision back on June 1st".
It's this "no-decision" that confuses me. I presume that there's been 2 "no-decisions" because it said that his record is 1-0 despite playing them 3 times.
I've checked the game wrap for 1st June and Basically after 5 innings he'd conceded 8 runs, but Cincinatti had 7 runs. They then changed the pitcher and Cincinatti scored 2 more runs to win the game 9-8.
Now i'm guessing that this is called a no-decision because he wasn't piching when Cincinatti took the lead to win the game, but then on the flip side of that, what would have happened if they were winning, but then lost - would this also be called a no-decision?
If so, does that really mean that the result has to stay the same for the opening pitcher's win/loss to register in his figures? If so, that would mean that when you see a pitchers records (i.e. J.Cueto 11-2), he could have started many other games where the result changed after the pitcher was changed and no figures were registered?
This makes quite a difference because I'd still be interested to see how he did in his innings before he was changed, as that info is extremely important also, especially if the game changed BECAUSE he wasn't pitching afterwards...
I may have it all wrong, but please can someone explain what a "no-decision" is? and if I'm on the right track above?
Cheers guys.
Could someone explain the following to me please? I'm not new to Baseball, but am quite new to Baseball betting, so It'd be useful to find this out.
In tonight's game St Louis @ Cincinatti, I really fancy Cincinatti with the way Cueto's been pitching lately, however after reading all the usual analysis websites I read, I came across a term that I wasn't familiar with.
I was looking back at Cueto's last games against St Louis this season and he's "1-0 with three starts, but was tagged for 8 runs over 5 innings in a no-decision back on June 1st".
It's this "no-decision" that confuses me. I presume that there's been 2 "no-decisions" because it said that his record is 1-0 despite playing them 3 times.
I've checked the game wrap for 1st June and Basically after 5 innings he'd conceded 8 runs, but Cincinatti had 7 runs. They then changed the pitcher and Cincinatti scored 2 more runs to win the game 9-8.
Now i'm guessing that this is called a no-decision because he wasn't piching when Cincinatti took the lead to win the game, but then on the flip side of that, what would have happened if they were winning, but then lost - would this also be called a no-decision?
If so, does that really mean that the result has to stay the same for the opening pitcher's win/loss to register in his figures? If so, that would mean that when you see a pitchers records (i.e. J.Cueto 11-2), he could have started many other games where the result changed after the pitcher was changed and no figures were registered?
This makes quite a difference because I'd still be interested to see how he did in his innings before he was changed, as that info is extremely important also, especially if the game changed BECAUSE he wasn't pitching afterwards...
I may have it all wrong, but please can someone explain what a "no-decision" is? and if I'm on the right track above?
Cheers guys.
Show More
Now i'm guessing that this is called a no-decision because he wasn't piching when Cincinatti took the lead to win the game, but then on the flip side of that, what would have happened if they were winning, but then lost - would this also be called a no-decision? Yes
It is possible to get statistics for a team's overall win/loss record when a pitcher starts, regardless of whether he pitches the whole game or one pitch, or whether the team uses one pitcher or eight pitchers.
It is possible to get statistics for a team's overall win/loss record when a pitcher starts, regardless of whether he pitches the whole game or one pitch, or whether the team uses one pitcher or eight pitchers.
you have to pitch so many innings to be eligable for a 'decision' i think
In professional baseball, there are two types of decisions: a win (denoted W) and a loss (denoted L) . In each game, one pitcher on the winning team is awarded a win and one pitcher on the losing team is given a loss in their respective statistics. These pitchers are collectively known as the pitchers of record. Only one pitcher for each game receives each type of decision. In certain situations, another pitcher on the winning team who pitched in relief of the winning pitcher can be credited with a save, and holds can be awarded to relief pitchers on both sides, but these are never awarded to the same pitcher who receives the win.
The decisions are awarded by the official scorer of the game in accordance with the league's rules. The official scorer does not assign a winning or losing pitcher in some games which are forfeited, such as those that are tied at the time of forfeiture. If the game is tied (a rare event), no pitchers are awarded any decision.
Winning pitcher
In Major League Baseball, the winning pitcher is defined as the pitcher who last pitched prior to the half-inning when the winning team took the lead for the last time.
There are two exceptions to this rule. The more common exception is that a starting pitcher must complete five innings to earn a win (four innings for a game that lasted five innings on defense). If the starting pitcher fails to meet the innings requirement, the official scorer awards the win to the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment, was the most effective.
The second exception applies only to a relief pitcher who makes a "brief appearance" and is himself later relieved. If, in the official scorer's judgment, the relief pitcher was "ineffective," the win is awarded to the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the official scorer's judgment.
The losing pitcher is the pitcher who allows the run that gives the opposing team the lead with which the game is won (the go-ahead run, at which point the winning team assumes the lead and stays in the lead for the rest of the game). The pitcher receives the loss, even if this or any other runs are not earned. If a pitcher allows a run which gives the opposing team the lead, his team comes back to lead or tie the game, and then the opposing team regains the lead against a subsequent pitcher, the earlier pitcher does not get the loss.
If a pitcher leaves the game with his team in the lead or with the score tied, but with the go-ahead run on base, and this runner subsequently scores the go-ahead run, the pitcher who allowed this runner to reach base is responsible for the loss. This is true, regardless of the manner in which this batter originally reached base, and how he subsequently scored. If the relief pitching successfully completes the half-inning without surrendering the go-ahead run, the departed pitcher cannot receive a loss.
For example, on April 13, 2007, Carlos Zambrano of the Chicago Cubs was facing the Cincinnati Reds in the top of the 5th inning. He was taken out of the game with the Cubs leading 5–4 and the bases loaded. The pitcher who replaced him, Will Ohman, proceeded to allow two of the runners on base to score, giving the Reds a 6–5 lead. Although Zambrano was not pitching at the time the runs were scored, he was charged with the loss, as the base runners who scored were his responsibility.
The pitchers who receive the win and the loss are known, collectively, as the pitchers of record. A pitcher who starts a game but leaves without earning either a win or a loss (that is, before either team gains or surrenders the ultimate lead) is said to have received a no decision, regardless of his individual performance. A pitcher's total wins and losses are commonly noted together; for instance, a pitching record of 12–10 indicates 12 wins and 10 losses.
In the early years of major league baseball before 1900 it was common for an exceptional pitcher to win 40 or more games in one season with Charley Radbourn of the defunct Providence Grays holding the record with an astounding 60 wins in 1884. Since 1900, however, pitchers have made fewer and fewer starts and the standard has changed. Gradually, as hitting improved, better pitching was needed. This meant, among other things, throwing the ball much harder, and it became unrealistic to ask a pitcher to throw nearly as hard as he could for over 100 pitches a night without giving him several days to recover.
In the first third of the 20th century (especially in the Live Ball Era), winning 30 games became the rare mark of excellent achievement; this standard diminished to 25 games during the 1940s through 1980s (the only pitcher to win 30 or more games during that time was Denny McLain in 1968, in what was an anomalous pitching-dominated season).
Since 1990, this has changed even further, as winning 20 or more games in a single season is now achieved by only a handful of pitchers each season. For example, in 2004 only three of the more than five hundred major league pitchers did so. In 2006 and again in 2009, no pitcher in either league won 20 games.[3] The last pitcher to win 25 games was Bob Welch back in 1990, though it was achieved several times per decade immediately before that.
Wins, though a traditional method for determining a pitcher's success and ability (for instance helping journalists determine the recipient of the Cy Young Award), have become significantly less popular as a gauge of pitcher skill in the past fifteen years. Many times a win is substantially out of the pitcher's control; even a dominant pitcher cannot record a win if his team does not score any runs for him. For instance, in 2004, Milwaukee Brewers starting pitcher Ben Sheets had a losing record of 12–14, despite displaying an easy league-best 8:1 strikeout-to-walk ratio and was among baseball's Top 5 in ERA (2.70) and WHIP (0.98). In addition to its dependence on run support, wins for a starting pitcher are also dependent on bullpen support. A starting pitcher can pitch brilliantly, leaving the game with the lead, and then watch helplessly from the dugout as the bullpen blows the save and gives up the lead. That would entitle the starting pitcher to a no-decision instead of a win despite the strong performance, regardless of whether or not the team ends up winning. Starting pitchers on teams with a weak bullpen tend to have fewer wins because of this. Likewise, a pitcher can give a poor performance and give up many runs and leave the game earlier than desired, but still win because his team scored even more runs. Some often prefer the quality start statistic as an indication of how many times a starting pitcher gave his team a realistic chance to win.
The decisions are awarded by the official scorer of the game in accordance with the league's rules. The official scorer does not assign a winning or losing pitcher in some games which are forfeited, such as those that are tied at the time of forfeiture. If the game is tied (a rare event), no pitchers are awarded any decision.
Winning pitcher
In Major League Baseball, the winning pitcher is defined as the pitcher who last pitched prior to the half-inning when the winning team took the lead for the last time.
There are two exceptions to this rule. The more common exception is that a starting pitcher must complete five innings to earn a win (four innings for a game that lasted five innings on defense). If the starting pitcher fails to meet the innings requirement, the official scorer awards the win to the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment, was the most effective.
The second exception applies only to a relief pitcher who makes a "brief appearance" and is himself later relieved. If, in the official scorer's judgment, the relief pitcher was "ineffective," the win is awarded to the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the official scorer's judgment.
The losing pitcher is the pitcher who allows the run that gives the opposing team the lead with which the game is won (the go-ahead run, at which point the winning team assumes the lead and stays in the lead for the rest of the game). The pitcher receives the loss, even if this or any other runs are not earned. If a pitcher allows a run which gives the opposing team the lead, his team comes back to lead or tie the game, and then the opposing team regains the lead against a subsequent pitcher, the earlier pitcher does not get the loss.
If a pitcher leaves the game with his team in the lead or with the score tied, but with the go-ahead run on base, and this runner subsequently scores the go-ahead run, the pitcher who allowed this runner to reach base is responsible for the loss. This is true, regardless of the manner in which this batter originally reached base, and how he subsequently scored. If the relief pitching successfully completes the half-inning without surrendering the go-ahead run, the departed pitcher cannot receive a loss.
For example, on April 13, 2007, Carlos Zambrano of the Chicago Cubs was facing the Cincinnati Reds in the top of the 5th inning. He was taken out of the game with the Cubs leading 5–4 and the bases loaded. The pitcher who replaced him, Will Ohman, proceeded to allow two of the runners on base to score, giving the Reds a 6–5 lead. Although Zambrano was not pitching at the time the runs were scored, he was charged with the loss, as the base runners who scored were his responsibility.
The pitchers who receive the win and the loss are known, collectively, as the pitchers of record. A pitcher who starts a game but leaves without earning either a win or a loss (that is, before either team gains or surrenders the ultimate lead) is said to have received a no decision, regardless of his individual performance. A pitcher's total wins and losses are commonly noted together; for instance, a pitching record of 12–10 indicates 12 wins and 10 losses.
In the early years of major league baseball before 1900 it was common for an exceptional pitcher to win 40 or more games in one season with Charley Radbourn of the defunct Providence Grays holding the record with an astounding 60 wins in 1884. Since 1900, however, pitchers have made fewer and fewer starts and the standard has changed. Gradually, as hitting improved, better pitching was needed. This meant, among other things, throwing the ball much harder, and it became unrealistic to ask a pitcher to throw nearly as hard as he could for over 100 pitches a night without giving him several days to recover.
In the first third of the 20th century (especially in the Live Ball Era), winning 30 games became the rare mark of excellent achievement; this standard diminished to 25 games during the 1940s through 1980s (the only pitcher to win 30 or more games during that time was Denny McLain in 1968, in what was an anomalous pitching-dominated season).
Since 1990, this has changed even further, as winning 20 or more games in a single season is now achieved by only a handful of pitchers each season. For example, in 2004 only three of the more than five hundred major league pitchers did so. In 2006 and again in 2009, no pitcher in either league won 20 games.[3] The last pitcher to win 25 games was Bob Welch back in 1990, though it was achieved several times per decade immediately before that.
Wins, though a traditional method for determining a pitcher's success and ability (for instance helping journalists determine the recipient of the Cy Young Award), have become significantly less popular as a gauge of pitcher skill in the past fifteen years. Many times a win is substantially out of the pitcher's control; even a dominant pitcher cannot record a win if his team does not score any runs for him. For instance, in 2004, Milwaukee Brewers starting pitcher Ben Sheets had a losing record of 12–14, despite displaying an easy league-best 8:1 strikeout-to-walk ratio and was among baseball's Top 5 in ERA (2.70) and WHIP (0.98). In addition to its dependence on run support, wins for a starting pitcher are also dependent on bullpen support. A starting pitcher can pitch brilliantly, leaving the game with the lead, and then watch helplessly from the dugout as the bullpen blows the save and gives up the lead. That would entitle the starting pitcher to a no-decision instead of a win despite the strong performance, regardless of whether or not the team ends up winning. Starting pitchers on teams with a weak bullpen tend to have fewer wins because of this. Likewise, a pitcher can give a poor performance and give up many runs and leave the game earlier than desired, but still win because his team scored even more runs. Some often prefer the quality start statistic as an indication of how many times a starting pitcher gave his team a realistic chance to win.
# Reds are 5-0 in Cuetos last 5 starts during game 2 of a series.
# Reds are 5-0 in Cuetos last 5 starts after allowing 5 runs or more in their previous game.
# Reds are 7-1 in Cuetos last 8 starts vs. National League Central.
# Reds are 11-2 in Cuetos last 13 starts following a Quality Start in his last appearance.
# Reds are 4-1 in Cuetos last 5 Tuesday starts.
# Reds are 6-2 in Cuetos last 8 home starts.
# Reds are 6-2 in Cuetos last 8 starts when their opponent scores 5 runs or more in their previous game.
# Reds are 13-5 in Cuetos last 18 starts.
# Reds are 13-5 in Cuetos last 18 starts on grass.
# Reds are 2-5 in Cuetos last 7 home starts vs. a team with a winning record.
# Reds are 5-0 in Cuetos last 5 starts after allowing 5 runs or more in their previous game.
# Reds are 7-1 in Cuetos last 8 starts vs. National League Central.
# Reds are 11-2 in Cuetos last 13 starts following a Quality Start in his last appearance.
# Reds are 4-1 in Cuetos last 5 Tuesday starts.
# Reds are 6-2 in Cuetos last 8 home starts.
# Reds are 6-2 in Cuetos last 8 starts when their opponent scores 5 runs or more in their previous game.
# Reds are 13-5 in Cuetos last 18 starts.
# Reds are 13-5 in Cuetos last 18 starts on grass.
# Reds are 2-5 in Cuetos last 7 home starts vs. a team with a winning record.
Thanks guys - most useful!
Orioles - Great information!
Sexual Harassment Panda - What website do you use to get those lists? Thanks.
Orioles - Great information!
Sexual Harassment Panda - What website do you use to get those lists? Thanks.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539