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Blessington
19 Jan 10 13:50
Joined:
Date Joined: 18 Dec 00
| Topic/replies: 487 | Blogger: Blessington's blog
I'm green on both the Colts and Jets in the AFC but all red in the NFC for the same amount.

Will that mean I have to pay Premiun Charges of the 23% on the AFC winnings.

I see the other game doesn't start till 23.40 in the U/K but 18.40 in the US.

When is the week decided for the Premiun Charges does anybody know?

Is the Sunday night decided in the event the country is in.

Is it decided by the time a event starts or what?

Is it decided on U/K time?

Does anyone know. Seems a shane to lose 23% of my winnings when its not actually a win at all just the other half of the bet was unlucky to start 3hrs later.

Anyone know? ...........Cheers
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Report Sherbert January 19, 2010 3:03 PM GMT
I think by the times e.g. the AFC getting settled at 11pm ish and then the NFC on Monday at 4am ish this will be in the next week so you may lose out on some profit as by my calculations they will be in different charge weeks
Report Blessington January 19, 2010 3:15 PM GMT
Sherbert....Yeah I wonder......It doesn't seem fair does it?

As technically is has finished on the Sunday except it in the Sunday in US.

Does make betting on American football on Golf deadly.

Half your bets count for one Sunday half for the next Sunday to be matched with the half from the other Sunday.

Likewise with Golf you end up with a extra Tournament some weeks when it comes to the PC

You wonder does common sense come into it anywhere along the line?

23% COMMISSION compared to 5% is a lot to paid extra just because 1 match starts 3 hours later.
Hows a guy meant to budget for that back in September when the leagues started.

If that is the case its, Flippant deadly these PREMIUN CHARGES. :0 ........Cheers
Report Jockey Full Of Bourbon January 20, 2010 3:49 PM GMT
nothing is fair about the premium charge,look elsewhere
Report orioles January 20, 2010 4:26 PM GMT
I know what you mean, I'm £740,000 green on all the remaining teams - I'm gutted :(
Report FORZA AS ROMA January 20, 2010 4:31 PM GMT
Yea betfair is a disgrace, just do most of your betting elsewhere
Report McNabbToOwens January 20, 2010 5:18 PM GMT
Can i borrow £10 please Orioles? I found a nose trimmer in Argos im particularly keen on purchasing.
Report orioles January 20, 2010 5:28 PM GMT
With that hooter?

We'll have a whip round for a strimmer, that way you can do your back and palms at the same time :)
Report scoobytoo January 20, 2010 5:35 PM GMT
99.9% sure it will be 2 weeks 4 charging purposes
Report Blessington January 20, 2010 7:38 PM GMT
SCOBYTOO...I think you could be right. You imagine common sense would be used now again.

The only good news is I think anyone who bet before the 2nd lot of PC charges were introduced is entiled to a PC waiver provided they weren't liable if the old PC charge was involved. Something to do with contact law and the contract your bet fell under with Betfair at the time.

Yeah sounds complicated enough to fall under Premiun Charges rules. :^0
Report cunnybobbler January 20, 2010 9:17 PM GMT
have they changed the rules? im on lifetime charges of 23.85% so havent paid any premium charges. please tell me im still ok, i pay enough as it is in bloody c'mish. its quite galling when its up on the screen. i do most of my betting elsewhere but still paid nearly 4k c'mish in less than 2 years. extra charges on top would be a bit of a disaster.
Report Blessington January 20, 2010 10:25 PM GMT
BOBBLER. They changed it from 60 weeks to a lifetime and removed the 250 market per 60 week rule.
Which was the one that killed most of us and seems to have brought 100s more punters into the net.

But at least they have now got the Portal going. Type in that and you get a fair idea of your faith both now and in the future.

If it allows you access its means your getting very near in their eyes. If you can't get it. It means your a net loser or a long way to go.

Just make sure you type it in while on the Betfair page as otherwise you can't get in as you must be signed in to Betfair at the same time to see it.

Well I don't know should I wish you luck or hope your not there or hope you are. Like I said if you are your winning a few if your not your getting skinned except you don't have to worry about the PC. :^0

https://premiumcharge.betfair.com/PremiumPortal/portal

Thats it above anyway.......Cheers
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 1:29 AM GMT
yeah i already looked before.

Lifetime Profile
Markets 1306

Gross PL £ 15,797.65

Commission Generated £ 2,369.45 +
Other Charges £ 1,398.13 +
Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 0.00 =
Total Charges £ 3,767.57

Total Charges % 23.85
Max possible Premium Charge £ 0.00
Last Week 11/01/10 - 17/01/10


Gross PL £ 215.07

Commission Generated £ 22.19 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +

Total Charges £ 22.19

Total Charges % 10.32
Max possible Premium Charge £ 20.82
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 1:33 AM GMT
so if my charges drop to below 20% would i then pay premium charge immediately?? if so im going to start losing on purpose! cant be that difficult really, back a few good things at the bookies and lay them on here.
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 1:38 AM GMT
i presume you arent breaking any terms and conditions by losing on purpose?
Report Blessington January 21, 2010 1:00 PM GMT
BOBBLER...Yeah you are getting very near one good win and your fcuked. Yeah its immediate they are meant to allow you off the first time if they haven't notifly you in advance. But it seems thats very hit and miss and some say they never kept note early on, on who they notifly and who they didn't and lots claim they have paid without recieving a warning.

As for the strategy of laying one team here such as a 1/1 money shot and then backing them with the bookies. If that team LAY does come up your left in further trouble and with a bill the following Wednesday ending up paying 23% commission on it... So much then for that strategy you be saying.

The big problem most of us have is once you go into PC land your liable to pay 23% on your winnings until you start including some losers. If your just betting on sports like the NFL where there are only Two outcomes its not that difficult to back a few winners in a row. Or if like me you sometimes just have one bet a week its very hard to get back out of it.

Which leaves you at the end of day asking are Betfair prices 23% better than elsewhere. If there not you might as well do yourself a favour and save some money and back elsewhere ..Cheers
Report Sherbert January 21, 2010 2:25 PM GMT
orioles 20 Jan 17:26
I know what you mean, I'm £740,000 green on all the remaining teams - I'm gutted :(


LOL amazing that people get a kick from lying on here ;)
Report Saluting Darren Lockyer January 21, 2010 3:11 PM GMT
he doesn't lie................called himself a t0sser last week
Report orioles January 21, 2010 6:04 PM GMT
Yikes!
Report HowieTheRookie. January 21, 2010 8:05 PM GMT
I thought the Premium Charge was a tax on people who have a very unfair advantage (** the system). Strange that you would admit to paying it ;)
Report Blessington January 21, 2010 9:31 PM GMT
Yeah that was the Myth......

Some of the so called big winners are getting billed for 71 pence I think somebody reported they paid on the General Forum.

A few hundred a week seem to come across as the norm when you do hit it. Which is what its going to cost me because the NFC game finishes 3 hours later than the AFC.

Or put it the other way if the powers to be had put the NFC came on first instead of the AFC it could have saved me around £200.

Thats how unfair the Premiun Charge can be once you enter it. :(
Report McNabbToOwens January 21, 2010 9:51 PM GMT
We'll have a whip round for a strimmer

:^0
Report McNabbToOwens January 21, 2010 9:56 PM GMT
Sherbert 21 Jan 15:25


orioles 20 Jan 17:26
I know what you mean, I'm £740,000 green on all the remaining teams - I'm gutted


LOL amazing that people get a kick from lying on here


Its true sherbert, he showed me the screenshots at the same time as he showed me his collection of Last of the Summer Wine Commemmoration plates and his collection of Adam Archeleta **s.
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 10:40 PM GMT
i have an unfair advantage, im good at betting.
Report Blessington January 21, 2010 11:02 PM GMT
But a slow learner if it took you 3 years to only reach the figure your at now. :^0
Report orioles January 21, 2010 11:03 PM GMT
Those plates will only appreciate in value.
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 11:05 PM GMT
ive been a pro gambler nearly 20 years, betting existed long before betfair you know.
Report Blessington January 21, 2010 11:12 PM GMT
Please don't tell them in Betfair that" betting existed before then" as it would only upset them. :^0
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 11:14 PM GMT
it should be easy to avoid charges anyway, all you need to do to raise your total charges percentage is break even on some bets. laying a whole load of football results you can back at better odds with the bookies will do that. if you lay 50 results they arent all going to win, bound to get somewhere near the break even mark. gross p/l stays roughly the same and the total charges percent goes up.
Report Blessington January 21, 2010 11:28 PM GMT
BOBBLER. Getting even on bets will do nothing for the Premiun Charges as it doesn't decrease your profit already made or increase the commission you paid them.

Any winners you have even if you paid them 5% commission they will only credit you with 3% of it so you have to find another 17% from somewhere if you want to avoid a premiun charge on your winnings.
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 11:40 PM GMT
actually that cant be right...its late...gross p/l goes up and total charges goes up but so does the charge percent...if your gross p/l is 10k and charges 2k then your charges are 20%...if you get your gross p/l up to 15k and charges to 7k by a shed load of break even stuff your charges are then 46.6% yet you have still the same net profit. the way to avoid the premium charge seems to be to saturate your p/l with a decent percentage of losing bets.
Report cunnybobbler January 21, 2010 11:45 PM GMT
yeah but its gross profit so it must mean before c'mish? so if i had £300 of bets but only broke even i would have made a profit before c'mish. so say i paid £30 in c'mish my groos p/l should rise by £30 (cos without the c'mish ive made £30 profit) and my charges raise by £30 too. shouldnt it?? or should it?? ffs its complicated lol
Report Blessington January 22, 2010 12:25 AM GMT
Bobbler...Yeah add in they only allow you credit for half your 5% commission you paid and as you said it gets way too complicated.

Best do what I and many others before me when you reach the Premiun Charge land cut back betting on here or do them ALL somewhere else. :(
Report cunnybobbler January 22, 2010 3:00 AM GMT
i have to admit i thought theyd have given it up by now, it cant be a good move financially surely? ive noticed a huge drop off in liquidity during the last year or so on many of the lesser played markets, not sure if thats a coincidence or not. i expect the only people getting charged are genuine punters, big traders will have probably figured a way around it with so much money at stake. its not even just the charges its the uncertainty, like i often back stuff on here thats just a cover bet of a longterm bet ive got going elsewhere. it often involves backing something at big prices that i dont really think is going to win, just to make sure i get my stakes back from bets elsewhere. it could be £300 at 20s to get 6k back on something that has 6 months to run. how can you do that when youve got no idea if in 6 months it wins and 20% of the 6k (which isnt even a profit cos youve bet that money on other selections elsewhere) might get taken away?? id rather they just scrapped the discounts and charge everybody 5%. in fact id rather they charged everybody 6% at least id know where i stand and what bet ive actually got when i put it on.
Report curlywurly January 22, 2010 11:36 AM GMT
Blessington - almost certainly they will both be in the same week

The cutoff for prem charge this week is 11pm on the 24th. There is almost zero chance of the jets game being finished by then and absolutely no chance of the AFC market being settled by then.

Every chance that both markets will be in next weeks figures for prem charge
Report scoobytoo January 22, 2010 1:09 PM GMT
the cutoff point(for PC) is 23.59 on the sunday :-

so the Colts/Jets game 8:00 KO almost certainly will be settled this week
the Saints/Vikes game 23:40 KO will be settled the week after

given a normal 3 hour game scenario
Report Lori January 22, 2010 2:08 PM GMT
scoobytoo 22 Jan 14:09
the cutoff point(for PC) is 23.59 on the sunday :-


Not quite true. On golf and similar that run close or over midnight they settle it, and i paraphrase or possibly even quote "We will use common sense as to which week it falls into"
Report scoobytoo January 22, 2010 2:16 PM GMT
i was just trying to give some clarification for the original poster...the "23:59" came direct from the premium people
Report Blessington January 22, 2010 5:17 PM GMT
Thanks guy for the replys.

But it seems as ever how they decide when Premiun Charges will be implented on a customer is as vague and up in the air as ever. :(
Report cunnybobbler January 23, 2010 4:16 PM GMT
ahh ffs! i tried to break even today with a load of bets to try and boost up my total charges percent... and ended up winning 800 quid by accident! :(
Report Blessington January 23, 2010 5:42 PM GMT
Bobbler..On those figure you showed us your okay to £19 k as 20% would = £3800 in charges.

You moved up to nearly £17k now and paid a little extra in charges.

So go easy on the Colts tomorrow :^0
Report cunnybobbler January 24, 2010 1:37 AM GMT
thing is ive already made about 2k profit this week that isnt in those figures plus im +600 on the nfc and most of my colts bets are elsewhere. covered the jets on here so il be +3k if the jets win even though il be -6k on the jets elsewhere. even if the colts win il be about -1200 jets but +2,000 colts on here. if i can get past the nfl without paying charges il be happy enough, im just worried about paying hefty charges on something ive made a huge loss on overall. which i think i will do if the jets win. its one thing paying charges when youve won but very nasty if i end up paying £500 charges when ive lost 3k on it already. im in so deep on the nfl i cant do anything about it now, and dont have any vague idea if il get charged £700 or nothing. when its your livelihood thats very hard to accept as fair. its like going to work and not knowing how much youre going to get paid and may even actually end up having to pay them for the privelege of working.
Report Blessington January 24, 2010 10:13 PM GMT
curlywurly 22 Jan 12:36
Blessington - almost certainly they will both be in the same week

The cutoff for prem charge this week is 11pm on the 24th. There is almost zero chance of the jets game being finished by then and absolutely no chance of the AFC market being settled by then.

Every chance that both markets will be in next weeks figures for prem charge

......................................................................................................

CURLY....Its 23.11 minutes the Colts game was over. According to your report that should be a new week for Premiun Charges or at least the same week as the NFC. So I can match off those losses.

I hope your right. ;)
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