Irish Sports
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"Kids want to play soccer, rugby..they need to be told no."
"Kids want to play soccer, rugby..they need to be told no."
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Replies: 90
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You have clearly stated in the past that you do not want your grandchildren playing rugby for reasons stated. This is not an invention.
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And by the way the club vs province debate is tangential to the subject at hand. Though, of course, any old excuse to talk about 'the old days'.
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Should gaa go professional?
It seems for many the club is more important than the county. For the gaa neutral like myself I like to watch Cork rather than a mundane club game. Opposite to gaa Ireland team is more important than the provinces and Everybody knows that. |
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It can be done , I have clearly stated in the past that I would much prefer my grandchildren to play games other than rugby , you got that right indirectly . Preferment is not to be confused with the "banning" statement you attribute to me earlier .
One of my sons played GAA from age 9 until 36 , only once did he finish up in hospital , courtesy of a Kerry All Star ( accidental ) . He played rugby twice at Uni having been offered an automatic starting position ( at centre) by one of the Ulster First division rugby clubs locally . Both matches saw him injured , not seriously as he is as tough as teak , but the experiment ended there as he realised 12 stone vs 16 stone was not an equal battle , particularly at speed which he had in abundance . |
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I would like to imagine that your strongly held preference was tantamount to a ban .
Sorry to hear your son got his arse handed to him in the only two games he played and that he subsequently threw in the towel. |
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He was brilliant in the two games he played itcanbedone , which is why they wanted him to play for them . He preferred GAA though , much better game then , no question of him throwing in the towel , but that is a typical cheap jibe thrown in by you with no knowledge of the facts . And as they say , you didn't see the other fellow . Plus nobody could play top level GAA and rugby weekly at the same time . Soccer and GAA weekly used to be possible , just about , GAA and rugby never because of physical demands of rugby in particular .
The rugby players nowadays sleep a lot apparently according to my information , injuries heal quicker . Not a medical person myself , but thats what I hear from those who should know . |
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Was he buckled or not in both games? And subsequently threw in the towel? Are these not the facts?
What differentiates rugby from many other sports is the test of character it provides. It is clearly not for everyone. |
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You obviously dont take the time to read posts properly itcanbedone , which I would have guessed at prior to recent utterances from you . If you have been playing top level GAA for 4 years prior to going to UNI , then captain your Sigerson team , but play a couple of games of rugby for a bit of craic essentially , no matter what happens in the rugby games you are unlikely to switch codes no matter how easy you find rugby . And few if any of our rugby playing friends went to the same church as we do ( in the north). Pre Belfast agreement etc . The skill levels in rugby were nowhere near GAA football then , largely due to the fact that in rugby you dont have to control the ball as you run . If you are fast , strong , brave rugby is dead easy , albeit played with a quirky ball .
Rugby has quite a few international standard players who were averagely good gaelic players , seldom if ever works the other way about . Some of my contemporaries were useless GAA players , couldn't kick snow off a rope , but played rugby ( in the scrum ) at a decent level . Different games , different skill levels . No towels here though , just choice and logic . |
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Can you stop waffling at great length abut his alleged accomplishments back the day and answer the questions posed;
1. was he buckled in both games he played? 2. Did he throw in the towel after the second game? A simple YES or NO answer will suffice to both questions. |
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Kelly have to disagree with you there. Arguably Darren sweetnam was a better gaa player than your lad. Indeed he was one of corks better prospects but he made the switch to rugby with munster.
You either have a feel and a liking for the game or you dont that's the long and short of it |
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Dont know anything about Darren Sweetnam at all , macrocky . But if he gave up GAA football with Cork ( who have underperformed recently ) and made it with Munster does it not underline that GAA players find it easy to play rugby , but seldom the other way about ?
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I think Kearney, Carty, Miller, Horgan, Henshaw, Galwey, keane, Danaher, Duffy, OLeary, Bowe, Murphy, Cronin, Zebo, Dowling, Elwood, Muldoon, Wood, Ronan are "rugby players who found GAA easy to play". About half of these are rugby forwards btw.
And that's just off the top of my head. I think it is so sad that you are constantly trying to big up your own sport by running down another. Smacks of insecurity, perhaps even jealousy for the more glamorous, international sport! |
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Sweetnam was a guaranteed starter for cork imo. Cork while not a all ireland contender are and always will be one of ireland better gaa teams.
However in sweetnam case why would a rugby player in the 100k bracket switch to amateur gaa. I think former munster scrum half to tomas o leary related to former cork great Sean o leary went to rugby. The carrot is money and professionalism in sport while able to do it. I'd say limerick is littered with dual prospects |
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Itcanbedone , no towels . Not in our nature . If anything too brave , no fear of tackling the 17 stoners even if you are only 12 stone , while team mates avoid the tackle . Unequal contest though , purely on bulk considerations , and one of basic flaws in rugby ( there weren't many 17stoners about in Webb-Ellis's day ). Precautionary x rays for arm injuries , nothing broken though . Enjoyed the "pinting "afterwards , but you can do that anywhere if you have decent friends.
Pure choice , shares my view that GAA ( then at least) was a purer game than rugby . With more inherent skills , and a sensible sized pitch for 30 players , none of your 100 yards long carp . Hand pass ruining GAA game now , no longer purely football , too much basketball type activity . |
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He had to go for x-rays
 After both games?  No wonder he didn't fancy it much! Try telling someone like Shane Williams, or Stringer or { insert 50 other examples } it was an "unequal contest". They all had bottle, mind. |
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Macrocky , we beat Cork in 94 semi final , and our 94 team was only about 85% of our 91 team . Cork beat us in 2010 final , only two of our 2010 team ( Clarke and Benny) would have got on the 91 PANEL , although we could have used Clarke and Benny up front , shifting Gary Mason to full back ( his best position ) , Deegan to centre half back , DJ to right back , and Ross Carr to left half back . With that line up Meath would have been beaten more .
Big attraction in rugby now is the money , good return for commitment involved . GAA guys doing it more or less for the love of it . |
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He loved it itcanbedone , no question about bottle . If there had been professional rugby at that time it might have been a different story , but you dont pack in your status in your native game to play a different game unless there is some advantage in it .
A year later , he and 2 team mates were in the gym with 3 Irish rugby internationals . Yhe GAA lads were outperforming the rugby lads even in the bench presses etc , the rugby guys ( amateurs then ) were amazed . |
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Amazing transformation.......in the space of a year of being buckled in both club games he played in, he went to beasting internationals at bench pressing.
What year was this and who were the alleged rugby internationals? "Back in the day" most wouldn't have known what a gym looked like. |
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There'd definitely be a Franno article in this thread.
Horgan, Geordan Murphy, Henshaw, Zebo, Duffy, O'Leary, Wood, Miller from the names above would be obvious top-class sportsmen at whatever they turned their hand to, Wood is probably the only one that you could make any kind of an argument for for being a pure rugby player as I don't think he thrived playing other sports (I've heard it said Wood might be the best pound-for-pound rugby player we ever produced anyway, so that's hardly a slight). He's probably the most explosive power-athlete on the list there as well. I'd add David Wallace who I'd say would've been an unbelievable Gaelic Footballer but his family was steeped in Rugby. There are loads really. All the other lads would've dominated their age categories up as far as they played. What they would've gone on to do, who knows but they'd have been blue-chip prospects in GAA or soccer. Duffy was training with the Mayo footballers on the extended panel a 2 years ago when well past it, presume he must have been showing up well for his club for that to happen. Horgan would've played for Meath senior footballers easily and done very well, same with Henshaw and Westmeath (In fact, I'd expect they'd have dominated but its speculation.) Tomas O'Leary like Sweetnam was the best young prospect in Cork hurling. Zebo was a decent underage hurler and represented Cork Schoolboys I'm sure I've read. Eric Miller played some GAA when he retired which suggests he probably went very well in it before. He was a beast anyway. It's funny but I'd consider the three most gifted multi-purpose field players I've seen (I'll leave out hurling, that's a different skill set)taking account of technical ability, the physical side, and looking comfortable (always having time) they're probably Johnny Sexton, Geordan Murphy, the O'Sé brothers, Michael Murphy (Donegal), Conor Murray is probably there as well. It would be great if our footballers (Soccer team) was producing lads with that blend of physicality and the technical side down as well. I'm not having a dig here because soccer is the hardest medium to thrive in. What would give for the equivalent of Sexton or Diamuid Connolly playing central midfield for ourselves against Wales in the games coming up. A kind of Ballack, Viera type; physically imposing natural athletes that are brilliant technically. I think its something the FAI need to look into a bit. For some reason we have never produced that player, they've always been diminutive types, even Keano. |
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Itcanbedone , no club games involved , another invention . At uni , probably a couple of challenge matches against local first division sides . 1990 probably re gym , our GAA lads in the north were the fittest in Ireland at that stage , down south caught up in late nineties . I brought 4 players to the international rules tryouts around then , the Ireland fitness coach in the international rules series told me he could identify the northern lads facing the wall by their upper body shape .
One of those 3 GAA lads also plays golf CURRENTLY off PLUS 4 , he was a good golfer at school , but did not make our county under 16 football team ( but developed later) , his 2 older brothers did play u-16 , minor , and were squad members at senior county . Cant remember who the Ulster / Irish rugby players were , I was not present , it was a friendly "competitive " bit of craic , but the rugby guys were very impressed . The 3 GAA lads were 6-4 , 6-2 , and 6-0 tall . 2 of them were good hurlers too , and one played basketball approaching national standard . They would all have made good rugby players . Neill d , if the GAA did not exist , and all the players devoted their time to rugby , Ireland would be ALL Black standard every year . Can you imagine the damage Bomber Liston would have caused on the rugby field , given the state of rugby in his day and the fact that both sports were amateur . |
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what are you on about "invention" regarding "no club games involved"
he played for a Uni side (a rugby club btw) against a local first division side (also a Club). I have no idea what the term 'club' means in GAA, but in rugby parlance, he took part in a "club game". And got buckled and threw in the towel because he felt too small and puny and that it was an unfair contest, despite the fact he could outlift Internationals in the gym. |
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Neill d , the best soccer player we will ever produce in this island was George Best , he grew up a stones throw literally from Ravenhill rugby ground , but never played rugby . Most of Georges matches were in council parks in and around Belfast , sometimes on cinder type surfaces as in Ormeau Park . One of my friends tried to mark him at age 14 or so , with instructions from his team captain ( a future Arsenal captain ) to kick George out of the match . Missed him 4 times in a row , moved at half time elsewhere .
The soccer ethos in Ireland was formed in cities , kids learned to play ( like George) in the mean streets , up and down pavements , bouncing off walls and hedges , fairly hones the skill in avoidance technique , ball control and self preservation. No cars in those days either. Every couple of streest had a team . George would have been a brilliant Gaelic player , but I doubt he would have prospered on a rugby field . Not enough room on a rugby field , even in those days before the 18 stoners appeared , but gaelic pitches have plenty of room for 15 players a side . |
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Never saw Best obviously, but on CV he is clearly the best we ever produced by a fair way, indeed. Was just commenting on why it is our big lads playing football don't seem to be developed technically as they should be. There are exceptions like Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Niall Quinn; but you'd look at someone like Meyler, with his physicality and think what a player he would be if he had worked on the technical side of the game more.
Would agree we'd be All-Blacks level and probably perennial qualifiers in soccer but for the GAA but the GAA brings a lot to the table too. This Super 8's idea is horrendous, though. Completely counter-intuitive and neutering of the football championship from the last 8 which is when it actually gets good. The public won't go and see these dead rubbers. If the GPA want more important games for their training time, they should've adopted a Champions League format from the outset, end of story. |
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Kelly, The soccer ethos in Ireland was formed in cities , kids learned to play ( like George) in the mean streets , up and down pavements , bouncing off walls and hedges , fairly hones the skill in avoidance technique , ball control and self preservation. No cars in those days either. Every couple of streest had a team .
Sounds exactly like Dublin in days gone by. |
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yeah course Besty wouldn't have prospered on a rugby pitch...after all he had no pace, no elusiveness, no footballing ability, etc etc. FFS
And as regards not "enough room on a rugby field back then" you had supreme athletes like Willie Johns Lard Ass covering every blade of grass...NOT....FFS...you could drive Tractors through the space on a pitch back then. If you have the illusion of lack of space, it is probably because the ball was rarely in play and when it was the default option was to kick. The highlight reel of the tries from back then look good...but if you ever watch an entire game...it was truly dire, turgid stuff. |
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I saw Best play a couple of times in his early Man U days, very hard to mark as he never seemed to run in a straight line, what a lot of people dont remember is Best was a good tackler as well, he only looked about 9 stone ;hard to know if he would have made a good Rugger player.
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Best...65 kgs as a profesional footballer player...only about a stone lighter than Gareth Edwards ...and he was half decent. Would have only taken a matter of weeks to add a stone to Best's frame....simply stop training as a pro footballer probably would have done it.
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You could be right itcanbedone, Frank O Farrell The soft-spoken Irishman was never able to get to grips with the worst of George Best's excesses.
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Jeez boys you know a very true adage " size matters" and " a good big un is better than a good little un".
Conor murray is over 15 stone. 9 stone is bantam weight or so |
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I wasn't envisaging Besty rising from the dead and togging out at 70 odd years of age in today's game.
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Even 40 years ago he would have been smashed. Twinkle toes mike gibson was between 11 and 12 stone I think.
11 stone is a very slight man Patrick viera wouldn't last 5 mins with the modern rugby player. And it's not that nowadays they are skillless it's just you must do the gym and weights rather than the pub and using the right arm |
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Was Gareth Edwards smashed much? And there were several lighter examples btw.
Don't forget Bestie was training daily as a pro footballer. Would have easily gained the stone required by moving to rugby and stopping full time training. Think of the calories he was drinking! |
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Ibrahimovitch could easily transfer to the pro rugby game....for example...he is already 90 kgs + despite training as a footballer....wouldn't take him that long to add some bulk to that frame.
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Jeez beastie would have needed Russian hormone implants itcanbedone
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To gain a stone or so? Hardly.
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How heavy do you think Peter stringer was or is
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Not sure what your google tells you, but mine tells me that Stringer is only 73 kgs....a stone or so heavier than Best. And that's after 20 years as a pro, preparing to play rugby..
So not only could Best have comfortably made it in rugby back in his day, he could even have made it in the modern era. |
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Stringer was a well built player, i recon 11s plus
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11 and a half stone . You said I think bestie was 9 or so . I think you are barking up the wrong tree with George best.
Leave him be as a great soccer player |
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I said he was 65kgs.
I am not barking up any tree with Best, I didn't bring him up. As regards 'leaving him be', this is merely a hypothetical conversation. |