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22 Feb 17 17:47
Date Joined: 20 May 10
| Topic/replies: 2,436 | Blogger: Rocketfingers's blog

Shocking stuff, threaning kids, calling it a war, it's not our fault gaelic football is broken and kids want to test themselves at more attractive sports, i grew up playing all sports and i don't believe and enjoyed all, you would not get this in hurling strongholds imo.

Gaelic football has a serious problem but don't take it out on the kids.
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Report mincer11 February 22, 2017 5:53 PM GMT
In fairness rocket, it's not everyone can be as sporting as you.
All that fitness stuff really stood to you when you purchased your first blow up doll.
Report Rocketfingers February 22, 2017 6:21 PM GMT
Report mincer11 February 22, 2017 6:58 PM GMT
Fair play rocket, a sense of humour is a good asset.
I like a guy who can give it and take it. There's a few here who can't
Report kincsem February 22, 2017 8:29 PM GMT
More than a few in the GAA still living with the ban.
Report frank60 February 22, 2017 8:39 PM GMT
The ban was lifted in the early 70s Kincsem, i doubt if anyone is still living with the ban, and if they are they should be kicked out of the GAA
Report Rocketfingers February 22, 2017 10:32 PM GMT
Totally agree kincem, gant and Kavvie no doubt will be about soon to defend this sort of buffology.
Report Rocketfingers February 22, 2017 10:32 PM GMT
Totally agree kincem, gant and Kavvie no doubt will be about soon to defend this sort of buffology.
Report kavvie February 23, 2017 9:09 AM GMT
no.there no defending it.but you get them sort of people in every organisation its fair to of my lads  play soccer in preference of importance to gaa.and thats his choice.once hes playing something im happy.
Report Rocketfingers February 23, 2017 10:16 PM GMT
Well said Kavvie and still no word from Gant, obviously ashamed.
Report GANT007 February 23, 2017 10:28 PM GMT
Stop letting the GAA call the shots and man up to them. The days are gone in rural Ireland when the fat kid played Rugby and the kid who didn't make the GAA gave soccer a go. Rugby and Soccer are alive and well in rural Ireland. Let kids decide and not bitter parents, the ban that deprived you of dual stardom is long gone Rocketfingers.
Report frank60 February 24, 2017 12:06 AM GMT
I well remember Kevin Moran winning FA Cup and All Ireland football medals ; most likely the only man to do so. Kevin turned 60 last year.
Report Rocketfingers February 24, 2017 1:36 AM GMT
Gant, great one. Deluded. Clown.
Report kavvie February 24, 2017 9:27 AM GMT
on a slightly seperate issue,i think the sacking of claudio raneiri last night by  leicester city goes to show what a  souless cess pit the "beautiful game" has become.  a lovely gentleman who got a team who were 5000/1 to win last season with a team of mostly journeymen was the outstanding managerial achievement of the last 50 years(at least). wednesday night he got them within a 1/0 victory of the last 8 in the champions league. following morning he get the bullet.
Report workrider February 24, 2017 10:16 AM GMT
So right Kavvie,a amazing achievement and then this,I actually hope they go down now.
Report GANT007 February 24, 2017 11:38 AM GMT
Rocketfingers.....I do apologise, touchy subject for you.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 11:39 AM GMT
I think they would've been grand anyway, but I can see how it has happened.

Don't think they were ever going to be relegated and still don't. Mancini should go well there if he gets it. They have plenty of quality going forward and I when they're right and I think the lad Ndidi they signed in midfield will improve them a lot. Looks a big athlete that can play too.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 11:39 AM GMT
As in Ranieri would've kept them up.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 11:41 AM GMT
Mancini should be able to incorporate that low block stuff Ranieri had them doing last season. Mancini is also a bit of a c*nt, he relishes confrontation, which looks like it might be needed.

Mahrez is playing himself out of a big move at the minute. If Leicester decide to get ride in the summer, i'd say he could be value.
Report monarch February 24, 2017 11:58 AM GMT
Apparently the players told the club owners they lost faith in the manager. What a shower of c***ts. Non league and French Ligue 2 players winning a Premiere League and now their bitching. Should be breaking their backs for Ranieri for what they achieved. Hope they go down for this.
Report kavvie February 24, 2017 12:02 PM GMT
my one wish would be they go down..
Report itcanbedone February 24, 2017 12:39 PM GMT
It's very very sad but it's a business decision and you have to take the emotion out of it.  Even though I think he would have been as likely to keep them up as any replacement.  That said we are not privy to what is really going on behind the scenes.

Badly handled from a PR pov... a shame they couldn't have moved him upstairs as Director of Football for Life or offered him double the money to step down rather than be sacked.

One of the most unpopular decisions in Football history will be also be seen as one of the worst decisions in Football history if they go down. Ballsy call, a lot a stake for the owners.
Report peckerdunne February 24, 2017 2:33 PM GMT
Claudio came when many would not.

He had nothing to prove.

The club were left with no option in my opinion.

Relegation was looking increasingly likely.

The players are a disgrace, not all of them perhaps, but a senior loyal pro in that dressing room should have spilled blood.

We should be reading about training ground bust ups but are not, which speaks volumes in itself...

Appalling stuff.

Keano got it right some years ago with the prawn sandwich interview.

The last bastion of the working class is long gone.

Maggie has a lot to answer for............
Report neill d February 24, 2017 3:12 PM GMT
That blood and guts outlook drives me mad to be honest, Pecker. It has held back football in this country for years. There are technical reasons for why Leicester are struggling apart from lack of effort. The likes of Vardy, Huth, Wes Morgan, Fuchs; don't tell me those guys ain't trying. The clamp down on shirt tugging in the 18 yard box off of corners has forced Leicester to change their style on defenbding corners for one thing.

I haven't seen enough of them live, but watched them against Seville. I could see straight away that Mahrez wasn't trying, I'll give you that one. There will be others as well, but the biggest issue is that the attack has suffered without the athleticism of Kante getting the ball back in good areas for quick counters. Drinkwater couldn't make the team under Pearson, he has gone back to the player that he was without having an absolute superman next to him that covered acres.

The defence has suffered because 3 of the back 4 apart from Fuchs have no legs and no longer have Kante in front of them pressing the ball, teams are able to play down the sides and in front of Simpson, Huth and Morgan now.

No amount of players arguing with each other will improve the above. The way they could have improved it was through buying well, they didn't; although as I said, I like Ndidi as a player.

I'm all for the likes of Roy Keane, Johnny Sexton spilling blood; they are top players and they command that respect because they can play. The likes of Huth or Morgan doing that; someone like Mahrez will simply retort "What are you saying, you can't even do your own job?"

There's a lad at Rangers, now QPR called Clint Hill, the guy is an absolute fraud of a footballer, can't play and no pace; but he's a great man for spilling blood. The amount of teams that he has played for that struggle is unreal.

Also, re the class thing. Football is the last pure bastion of social mobility. The idea of a young Arab guy from a **** in France earning 120k p/w irks a lot of people. Not me, he is reigning footballer of the year coming from nothing. He earned it. He was never heralded,none of this was laid out for him and I'm sure there were times when it probably would've made more sense to step away from football, he persisted when other wouldn't ahve and deserves everything he has gotten. I'd rather see the money in the pockets of the players than the executives or shareholders. There is a narrative that it is players wages driving the price of everything' I think its bullsh!t.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 3:14 PM GMT
One guy can make that much of a difference. look at Barcelona without the control, and the exact word is control that Xavi used to give them. Xavi let them play every game exactly on their terms; look at them now.
Report itcanbedone February 24, 2017 3:19 PM GMT
Great post Neil.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 3:33 PM GMT
Bit of a rant I think! I'm probably an optimist, but I think most lads do try.
Report peckerdunne February 24, 2017 3:36 PM GMT
Neil,i would need time to respond properly.
Some very good salient points made which i mostly agree with.

I can tell you know what you are talking about when many don't, actually.

I did not mean blood and guts in footballing terms but more in the sphere of manning up and taking responsibility as opposed to going upstairs which is a disgrace from pro footballers full stop, but to a manager who has guided you to success, shocking.   

I took my son to the Leicester game at the bridge in October.I knew then within 15 minutes their season was doomed..

They had nothing, absolutely nothing to offer in any department.

The defence is shot. Probably a number of injections last season.

As you pointed out, Kante,flanks pace,etc

There is more to it than that though Neil...
Report neill d February 24, 2017 3:55 PM GMT
Oh right, think I probably took you up wrong. If they went behind his back to the board, I'd agree that is low. Something has soured there alright, I think it is that they have lost the player that made the team tick, and they haven't handled it well.

I thought you mean't take responsibility as in thundering in to people, whereas, I'm thinking now you mean more start doing the right things on the football pitch and in training.

Drinkwater for example, he seems to be playing more sideways and backwards passes because he is afraid to go forward and maybe lose it knowing the team might struggle to get it back. Whereas last season he would've passed forward knowing he had the insurance of a great ball-winner next to him. Taking responsibility as you put it, would be Drinkwater playing the ball forward irrespective of who is playing next to him because it is the right thing to do even if it might make you look bad. I think that's what you mean, pecker and we are broadly on the same page.

Same everywhere, someone like Simpson thinking, "if I support this attack as a right-back in modern football should, and it breaks down which I think it will, we've nobody in midfield who is likely to slow the opposition attack down and I'll have to track all the way back..... and I'm not sure what I have in the gas tank!"
Report itcanbedone February 24, 2017 3:56 PM GMT
players are f00ked now anyway...perform now and the question will be asked why couldn't you have done that earlier in the season...or go down and suffer all that that entails.

For all we now the players did 'go upstairs' to bat for Claudio.  Who knows the real story?.

I wouldn't get to upset for him, in retrospect.  Its a dog eat dog business, sacking comes with he territory, he has been sacked more times than he cares to remember, mostly with excellent payoffs.  He can walk into his choice of  multi million dollar jobs in China tomorrow if he wants. It could be worse!
Report neill d February 24, 2017 3:59 PM GMT
Agree, while I'm loathe to criticise anybody for what they earn and the lifestyle they have. When someone finds themselves at that place in life, they generally have a tonne of options when things go wrong.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 4:13 PM GMT
There's an interview with Floyd Mayweather before the Pacquaio fight where a famous American tv news journalist, I think it was Katy Couric(sic) asks Mayweather in his gym whether he thinks it is ridiculous (or something like that) that he was earning $200,000,000 for the fight. Mayweather replies deadpan, "absolutely not."

It was like he said without saying, with his inflection and posture, that he had put his whole life into his career (if boxing had gone wrong he would've been nowhere) into this and this was the big score he had planned meticulously for the past 6 years.

She didn't know what to do with that. For a guy who has had no education and is apparently illiterate, I thought he answered the question brilliantly.

For every top sports person, even the guys like Mahrez who patently aren't trying right now. Can we kind of say that they have earnt that right because just by dint of where they are now, there must have been a time when they had to absolutely burst themselves when the likelihood of reward was likely minimal and they would probably end up on the side of the road.
Report neill d February 24, 2017 4:14 PM GMT
typo riddled apologies, on phone.
Report itcanbedone February 24, 2017 4:41 PM GMT
Good luck to any footballer who can make X in a week....takes enormous ability, talent and dedication to succeed in such a compeditive profession, or most lucrative professions for that matter.
Report Kelly February 26, 2017 1:18 AM GMT
There are backwoodsmen in every strata of society , GAA no exception .  Thankfully though they are few and far between now , certainly compared to my youth when then "ban" was in force .  Most of us ignored it knowing it was a relic of the past and that its main resonance was in certain parts of the island . Took a long time though to get it lifted through Congress .

The GAA operates in every corner of Ireland , south and north , doing a brilliant job for society and youth .  Country would be a much more complicated one if the GAA were not operating on a daily basis .  The facilities everywhere are brilliant compared to what we experienced in our youth , and the expertise demanded by those running the show is commendable .  The main reason for the healthy state of the GAA is that there is no "professional" element to it , sucking all the money out .  All the money the GAA has raised is spent , generally wisely ( except maybe here in Down )on local and provincial and national facilities . None of our players are contemplating going to China at the end of their careers for a paltry 3/4 million a week for kicking a ball .

Most of the soccer facilities ( pitches) I know about are funded by the state , unlike the club scene prevalent in the GAA . The whole soccer scene is geared to the top teams , spurred on by unbelievable coverage / hype from the media . Hype does not necessarily mean increase in quality . Not one of current England team would have got on the 1966 winning World Cup team , so much for progress in 50 years plus ! And not one of our international players , south or north , actually plays in Ireland as far as I know .

Rugby used to be organised mainly through the local clubs , now it is largely top down driven as far as I can see , interest has moved from smaller local club matches to the provincial and international stage , inevitable result of professionalism presumably . The rugby people generally though operate their own clubs and grounds unlike the soccer model , and fair play to them they are doing relatively well in terms of recruitment and in producing new talent .

Young people come in all shapes and sizes  , with varying levels of skills . So kids should be trying all forms of sport , until they adapt to what suits them best . My 6 eldest local grandchildren all play GAA -- football and hurling/camogie , but they also play soccer and the girls netball and it keeps them busy and away from the all invasive computer games and mobile media madness for some of the time  , it is character building and team forming . Eventually they will probably also try their hand at golf given family commitment in that sport . Nobody dictates to them what sport they should be doing , any sport is better than none .

Hurling is in a great place , pity it is concentrated skill wise in about 8 counties of our 32 , whereas the football scene is much more democratic except in August and September recently . Clubs can though outdo their counties in terms of national achievement , which generates a lot of interest and keeps the "club" thing going .  The GAA clubs I am familair with work harder and longer  with the youth in their district than any other sports organisations , and all for free . The hand pass carp is ruining football , and while it might suit the smaller players the game is becoming basketball oriented tactically , it is no longer strictly "football " , but there seems to be a caucus somewhere who prefer their chances with the current rules .
Report GANT007 February 26, 2017 8:41 AM GMT
Poor auld Rocketfingers should have held off his frequent attack on other sports until his soccer team played.
The 11 new lads you got in must not be up to much, 45 year old brazilian scored a hat trick against them after getting 3 hours off work to attend the match. Surely it's time to let people from Sligo try out for the team.
Report itcanbedone February 26, 2017 10:51 AM GMT
Kelly, there is a new up and coming sport, it's called MMA.  It didn't exist "back in your day" so you might not have heard of it.

I don't know if it will be for you, given the fact that you have banned your grandkids from taking up rugby on the basis of health and safety.  But on the basis that kids "should be trying all forms of sports" perhaps they should give it a whirl?
Report frank60 February 26, 2017 5:48 PM GMT
MMA might be getting a bit worried that there cash cow [ Conor McGregor] is thinking of bigger things v Mayweather in the not to distant future.
Report macrocky February 27, 2017 1:34 PM GMT
Mma is a load of thuggery.
I see irish govt have asked Sweden how they regulate the sport????. Due to fatalities in the past
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 1:42 PM GMT
I have no jurisdiction over what sports my grandchildren play , itcanbedone .  Another invention on your part . No surprise that though . The club rugby scene up here in the north does not seem as vibrant as it once was ( regularly 3k plus attendances at Ravenhill for Instonians vs Collegians in my youth ) , might be different in south , only matches I attended down there clubwise was at Terenure in the sixties , so limited knowledge re current situation . Ulster are flying attendance wise though , every fixture is sold out , but whether or not the flow of players from local clubs is up to the mark might be subject of a debate .

On the broader health and safety debate re rugby , most of my rugby friends suffer from bad knees , backs , necks , arthritis , as they get older .  My GAA playing friends of the same era are generally still fit . Proof of the pudding .
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 1:45 PM GMT
You have clearly stated in the past that you do not want your grandchildren playing rugby for reasons stated.  This is not an invention.
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 1:47 PM GMT
And by the way the club vs province debate is tangential to the subject at hand.  Though, of course, any old excuse to talk about 'the old days'.
Report macrocky February 27, 2017 1:52 PM GMT
Should gaa go professional?
It seems for many the club is more important than the county.
For the gaa neutral like myself I like to watch Cork rather than a mundane club game.
Opposite to gaa Ireland team is more important than the provinces and Everybody knows that.
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 2:22 PM GMT
It can be done , I have clearly stated in the past that I would much prefer my grandchildren to play games other than rugby , you got that right indirectly . Preferment is not to be confused with the "banning" statement you attribute to me earlier .

One of my sons played GAA from age 9 until 36 , only once did he finish up in hospital , courtesy of a Kerry All Star ( accidental ) . He played rugby twice at Uni having been offered an automatic starting position ( at centre) by one of the Ulster First division rugby clubs locally . Both matches saw him injured  , not seriously as he is as tough as teak , but the experiment ended there as he realised 12 stone vs 16 stone was not an equal battle  , particularly at speed which he had in abundance .
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 2:28 PM GMT
I would like to imagine that your strongly held preference was tantamount to a ban .

Sorry to hear your son got his arse handed to him in the only two games he played and that he subsequently threw in the towel.
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 3:44 PM GMT
He was brilliant in the two games he played itcanbedone  , which is why they wanted him to play for them . He preferred GAA though , much better game then , no question of him throwing in the towel , but that is a typical cheap jibe thrown in by you with no knowledge of the facts . And as they say , you didn't see the other fellow . Plus nobody could play top level GAA and rugby  weekly at the same time . Soccer and GAA weekly used to be possible  , just about , GAA and rugby never because of physical demands of rugby in particular .

The rugby players nowadays sleep a lot apparently according to my information , injuries heal quicker .  Not a medical person myself , but thats what I hear from those who should know .
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 4:07 PM GMT
Was he buckled or not in both games?  And subsequently threw in the towel? Are these not the facts?

What differentiates rugby from many other sports is the test of character it provides.  It is clearly not for everyone.
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 4:45 PM GMT
You obviously dont take the time to read posts properly itcanbedone , which I would have guessed at prior to recent utterances from you . If you have been playing top level GAA for 4 years prior to going to UNI  , then captain your Sigerson team , but play a couple of games of rugby for a bit of craic essentially , no matter what happens in the rugby games you are unlikely to switch codes no matter how easy you find rugby . And few if any of our rugby playing friends went to the same church as we do ( in the north). Pre Belfast agreement etc .  The skill levels in rugby were nowhere near GAA football then , largely due to the fact that in rugby you dont have to control the ball as you run .  If you are fast , strong , brave rugby is dead easy , albeit played with a quirky ball .

Rugby has quite a few international standard players who were averagely good gaelic players , seldom if ever works the other way about . Some of my contemporaries were useless GAA players , couldn't kick snow off a rope , but played rugby ( in the scrum ) at a decent level . Different games , different skill levels .

No towels here though , just choice and logic .
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 4:54 PM GMT
Can you stop waffling at great length abut his alleged accomplishments back the day and answer the questions posed;

1.  was he buckled in both games he played?

2.  Did he throw in the towel after the second game?

A simple YES or NO answer will suffice to both questions.
Report macrocky February 27, 2017 5:04 PM GMT
Kelly have to disagree with you there. Arguably Darren sweetnam was a better gaa player than your lad. Indeed he was one of corks better prospects but he made the switch to rugby with munster.
You either have a feel and a liking for the game or you dont that's the long and short of it
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 5:23 PM GMT
Dont know anything about Darren Sweetnam at all , macrocky . But if he gave up GAA football with Cork ( who have underperformed recently ) and made it with Munster does it not underline that GAA players find it easy to play rugby , but seldom the other way about ?
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 5:35 PM GMT
I think Kearney, Carty, Miller, Horgan, Henshaw, Galwey, keane, Danaher, Duffy, OLeary, Bowe, Murphy, Cronin, Zebo, Dowling, Elwood, Muldoon, Wood, Ronan  are "rugby players who found GAA easy to play".  About half of these are rugby forwards btw.

And that's just off the top of my head.

I think it is so sad that you are constantly trying to big up your own sport by running down another.  Smacks of insecurity, perhaps even jealousy for the more glamorous, international sport!
Report macrocky February 27, 2017 5:35 PM GMT
Sweetnam was a guaranteed starter for cork imo. Cork while not a all ireland contender are and always will be one of ireland better gaa teams.
However in sweetnam case why would a rugby player in the 100k bracket switch to amateur gaa. I think former munster scrum half to tomas  o leary related to former cork great Sean o leary went to rugby.
The carrot is money and professionalism in sport while able to do it.
I'd say limerick is littered with dual prospects
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 5:38 PM GMT
Itcanbedone , no towels . Not in our nature . If anything too brave , no fear of tackling the 17 stoners even if you are only 12 stone  , while team mates avoid the tackle .  Unequal contest though , purely on bulk considerations , and one of basic flaws in rugby ( there weren't many 17stoners about in Webb-Ellis's day ).  Precautionary x rays for arm injuries , nothing broken though . Enjoyed the "pinting "afterwards , but you can do that anywhere if you have decent friends.

Pure choice , shares my view that GAA ( then at least) was a purer game than rugby . With more inherent skills , and a sensible sized pitch for 30 players  , none of your 100 yards long carp . Hand pass ruining  GAA game now , no longer purely football , too much basketball type activity .
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 5:43 PM GMT
He had to go for x-rays Excited After both games? Grin

No wonder he didn't fancy it much!

Try telling someone like Shane Williams, or Stringer or { insert 50 other examples } it was an "unequal contest".  They all had bottle, mind.
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 5:49 PM GMT
Macrocky , we beat Cork in 94 semi final , and our 94 team was only about 85% of our 91 team .  Cork beat us in 2010 final , only two of our 2010 team ( Clarke and Benny) would have got on the 91 PANEL , although we could have used Clarke and Benny up front , shifting Gary Mason to full back ( his best position ) , Deegan to centre half back , DJ to right back , and Ross Carr to left half back . With that line up Meath would have been beaten more .

Big attraction in rugby now is the money , good return for commitment involved .  GAA guys doing it more or less for the love of it .
Report Kelly February 27, 2017 5:57 PM GMT
He loved it itcanbedone , no question about bottle . If there had been professional rugby at that time it might have been a different story  , but you dont pack in your status in your native game to play a different game unless there is some advantage in it .

A year later , he and 2 team mates were in the gym with 3 Irish rugby internationals . Yhe GAA lads were outperforming the rugby lads even in the bench presses etc , the rugby guys ( amateurs then ) were amazed .
Report itcanbedone February 27, 2017 6:07 PM GMT
Amazing the space of a year of being buckled in both club games he played in, he went to beasting internationals at bench pressing.

What year was this and who were the alleged rugby internationals? "Back in the day" most wouldn't have known what a gym looked like.
Report neill d February 27, 2017 7:49 PM GMT
There'd definitely be a Franno article in this thread.

Horgan, Geordan Murphy, Henshaw, Zebo, Duffy, O'Leary, Wood, Miller from the names above would be obvious top-class sportsmen at whatever they turned their hand to, Wood is probably the only one that you could make any kind of an argument for for being a pure rugby player as I don't think he thrived playing other sports (I've heard it said Wood might be the best pound-for-pound rugby player we ever produced anyway, so that's hardly a slight). He's probably the most explosive power-athlete on the list there as well.

I'd add David Wallace who I'd say would've been an unbelievable Gaelic Footballer but his family was steeped in Rugby. There are loads really.

All the other lads would've dominated their age categories up as far as they played. What they would've gone on to do, who knows but they'd have been blue-chip prospects in GAA or soccer.

Duffy was training with the Mayo footballers on the extended panel a 2 years ago when well past it, presume he must have been showing up well for his club for that to happen.

Horgan would've played for Meath senior footballers easily and done very well, same with Henshaw and Westmeath (In fact, I'd expect they'd have dominated but its speculation.)

Tomas O'Leary like Sweetnam was the best young prospect in Cork hurling. Zebo was a decent underage hurler and represented Cork Schoolboys I'm sure I've read.

Eric Miller played some GAA when he retired which suggests he probably went very well in it before. He was a beast anyway.

It's funny but I'd consider the three most gifted multi-purpose field players I've seen (I'll leave out hurling, that's a different skill set)taking account of technical ability, the physical side, and looking comfortable (always having time) they're probably Johnny Sexton, Geordan Murphy, the O'Sé brothers, Michael Murphy (Donegal), Conor Murray is probably there as well.

It would be great if our footballers (Soccer team) was producing lads with that blend of physicality and the technical side down as well. I'm not having a dig here because soccer is the hardest medium to thrive in. What would give for the equivalent of Sexton or Diamuid Connolly playing central midfield for ourselves against Wales in the games coming up. A kind of Ballack, Viera type; physically imposing natural athletes that are brilliant technically. I think its something the FAI need to look into a bit. For some reason we have never produced that player, they've always been diminutive types, even Keano.
Report Kelly February 28, 2017 10:15 AM GMT
Itcanbedone , no club games involved , another invention . At uni , probably a couple of challenge matches against local first division sides . 1990 probably re gym , our GAA lads in the north were the fittest in Ireland at that stage , down south caught up in late nineties . I brought 4 players to the international rules tryouts around then , the  Ireland fitness coach in the international rules series told me he could identify the northern lads facing the wall by their  upper body shape .

One of those 3 GAA lads also plays golf CURRENTLY off PLUS 4 , he was a good golfer at school , but did not make our county under 16  football team ( but developed later) , his 2 older brothers did play u-16 , minor , and were squad members at senior county . Cant remember who the Ulster / Irish rugby players were , I was not present  , it was a friendly "competitive " bit of craic , but the rugby guys were very impressed . The 3 GAA lads were 6-4 , 6-2 , and 6-0 tall . 2 of them were good hurlers too  , and  one played  basketball approaching national standard . They would all have made good rugby players .

Neill d , if the GAA did not exist , and all the players devoted their time to rugby , Ireland would be ALL Black standard every year . Can you imagine the damage Bomber Liston would have caused on the rugby field  , given the state of rugby in his day and the fact that both sports were amateur .
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 10:30 AM GMT
what are you on about "invention" regarding "no club games involved"

he played for a Uni side (a rugby club btw) against a local first division side (also a Club).

I have no idea what the term 'club' means in GAA, but in rugby parlance, he took part in a "club game".

And got buckled and threw in the towel because he felt too small and puny and that it was an unfair contest, despite the fact he could outlift Internationals in the gym.
Report Kelly February 28, 2017 10:37 AM GMT
Neill d , the best soccer player we will ever produce in this island was George Best , he grew up a stones throw literally from Ravenhill rugby ground , but never played rugby . Most of Georges matches were in council parks in and around Belfast , sometimes on cinder type surfaces as in Ormeau Park . One of my friends tried to mark him at age 14 or so , with instructions from his  team captain ( a future Arsenal captain ) to kick George out of the match . Missed him 4 times in a row , moved at half time elsewhere .

The soccer ethos in Ireland was formed in cities , kids learned to play ( like George) in the mean streets , up and down pavements , bouncing off walls and hedges , fairly hones the skill in avoidance technique , ball control  and self preservation.  No cars in those days either. Every  couple of streest had a team .

George would have been a brilliant Gaelic player  , but I doubt he would have prospered on a rugby field .  Not enough room on a rugby field , even in those days before the 18 stoners appeared  , but gaelic pitches have plenty of room for 15 players a side .
Report neill d February 28, 2017 11:00 AM GMT
Never saw Best obviously, but on CV he is clearly the best we ever produced by a fair way, indeed. Was just commenting on why it is our big lads playing football don't seem to be developed technically as they should be. There are exceptions like Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Niall Quinn; but you'd look at someone like Meyler, with his physicality and think what a player he would be if he had worked on the technical side of the game more.

Would agree we'd be All-Blacks level and probably perennial qualifiers in soccer but for the GAA but the GAA brings a lot to the table too. This Super 8's idea is horrendous, though. Completely counter-intuitive and neutering of the football championship from the last 8 which is when it actually gets good. The public won't go and see these dead rubbers. If the GPA want more important games for their training time, they should've adopted a Champions League format from the outset, end of story.
Report workrider February 28, 2017 11:01 AM GMT
Kelly, The soccer ethos in Ireland was formed in cities , kids learned to play ( like George) in the mean streets , up and down pavements , bouncing off walls and hedges , fairly hones the skill in avoidance technique , ball control  and self preservation.  No cars in those days either. Every  couple of streest had a team .
Sounds exactly like Dublin in days gone by.
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 11:03 AM GMT
yeah course Besty wouldn't have prospered on a rugby pitch...after all he had no pace, no elusiveness, no footballing ability,  etc etc. FFS

And as  regards not "enough room on a rugby field back then" you had supreme athletes like Willie Johns Lard Ass  covering every blade of could drive Tractors through the space on a pitch back then.  If you have the illusion of lack of space, it is probably because the ball was rarely in play and when it was the default option was to kick.  The highlight reel of the tries  from back then look good...but if you ever watch an entire was truly dire, turgid stuff.
Report frank60 February 28, 2017 2:23 PM GMT
I saw Best play a couple of times in his early Man U days, very hard to mark as he never seemed to run in a straight line, what a lot of people dont remember is Best was a good tackler as well, he only looked about 9 stone ;hard to know if he would have made a good Rugger player.
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 2:35 PM GMT
Best...65 kgs as a profesional footballer player...only about a stone lighter than Gareth Edwards  ...and he was half decent.  Would have only taken a matter of weeks to add a stone to Best's frame....simply stop training as a pro footballer probably would have done it.
Report frank60 February 28, 2017 2:45 PM GMT
You could be right itcanbedone,  Frank O Farrell The soft-spoken Irishman was never able to get to grips with the worst of George Best's excesses.
Report macrocky February 28, 2017 3:54 PM GMT
Jeez boys you know a very true adage " size matters" and " a good big un is better than a good little un".
Conor murray is over 15 stone.
9 stone is bantam weight or so
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 4:22 PM GMT
I wasn't envisaging Besty rising from the dead and togging out at 70 odd years of age in today's game.
Report macrocky February 28, 2017 4:38 PM GMT
Even 40 years ago he would have been smashed. Twinkle toes mike gibson was between 11 and 12 stone I think.
11 stone is a very slight man
Patrick viera wouldn't last 5 mins with the modern rugby player. And it's not that nowadays they are skillless it's just you must do the gym and weights rather than the pub and using the right arm
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 4:43 PM GMT
Was Gareth Edwards smashed much?  And there were several lighter examples btw.

Don't forget Bestie was training daily as a pro footballer.  Would have easily gained the stone required by moving to rugby and stopping full time training.  Think of the calories he was drinking!
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 4:47 PM GMT
Ibrahimovitch could easily transfer to the pro rugby game....for example...he is already 90 kgs + despite training as a footballer....wouldn't take him that long to add some bulk to that frame.
Report macrocky February 28, 2017 4:51 PM GMT
Jeez beastie would have needed Russian hormone implants itcanbedone
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 4:55 PM GMT
To gain a stone or so? Hardly.
Report macrocky February 28, 2017 5:01 PM GMT
How heavy do you think Peter stringer was or is
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 5:29 PM GMT
Not sure what your google tells you, but mine tells me that Stringer is only 73 kgs....a stone or so heavier than Best.  And that's after 20 years as a pro, preparing to play rugby..

So not only could Best have comfortably made it in rugby back in his day, he could even have made it in the modern era.
Report frank60 February 28, 2017 5:30 PM GMT
Stringer was a well built player, i recon 11s plus
Report macrocky February 28, 2017 5:54 PM GMT
11 and a half stone . You said I think bestie was 9 or so . I think you are barking up the wrong tree with George best.
Leave him be as a great soccer player
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 6:03 PM GMT
I said he was 65kgs.

I am not barking up any tree with Best, I didn't bring him up.

As regards 'leaving him be', this is merely a hypothetical conversation.
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 6:07 PM GMT
I have to say it's been a stimulating afternoon on the forum.
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 6:10 PM GMT
The sort that would have you itching to be banned and done with the place!

I get that you rarely encounter the sharp minds on the day shift, but today takes the biscuit.
Report workrider February 28, 2017 6:22 PM GMT
Well I suppose talking too yourself most of the day makes it hard for the sharp minds to come out to play.If you allowed others a chance to express themselves without your ego going berserk,maybe, just maybe mind, they might.
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 6:39 PM GMT
Sorry to hear I am limiting your powers of expression, Wonks.

Talking to oneself would be more agreeable than the standard of response garnered today.
Report workrider February 28, 2017 6:40 PM GMT
See what I mean,its all about YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuu innit....
Report itcanbedone February 28, 2017 6:43 PM GMT
I rest my case
Report neill d February 28, 2017 7:26 PM GMT
Players condition themselves according to the demands of their game obviously. The likes of Murray and Sexton would be around 14.5-15 stone stone as they need to be this weight to give and absorb tackles. They would do a fair amount of weight training and eat for that bulk too.

Were they playing soccer, they'd probably clock in around 12.5 to 13 stone, would focus more on cardio than weights (not that Rugby players don't do cardio) and eat a bit less.

Ringrose is the current prime example of a lean rangy athlete that could've thrived at any team sport putting on a few kilos (slowly, over time, monitored in the right way) to absorb the hits in professional rugby. It is easily done and is no big deal. Best with his footwork, athleticism and pace would've been a top rugby player you'd think.

For a good example of an athlete bulking up and carrying weight well, look at Kell Brook moving up from 147-160lb to fight Golovkin. he was killing himself to make 147 anyway so it isn't as extreme as it sounds. In soccer, the young lad Davies at Everton is another example.
Report Kelly March 1, 2017 2:55 AM GMT
I have been watching rugby for a long time , game is completely different from what it was initially envisaged to be .  Some may like current version , others might prefer how it was .

Huge difference now is the pitches ( not the size , dont think that has changed ) , but the surfaces .

First really great player I saw was Kyle  , probably about 11 stone , great football brain and he had the advantage of playing behind a better than average pack .  Plus I suspect he had a minder or two among the forwards .

Davy Hewitt and Tony O'Reilly then appeared , Hewitt is still the fastest person I ever saw in an Ireland shirt , 10 seconds for the 100 yards , on grass . Won the Ulster schools under 18's by about 10 yards in Cherryvale , next door to Ravenhill . That was probably 1956 . Tony O'Reilly also was a good sprinter , won the Leinster schools en route to his rugby career , which was alongside Hewitt for Ireland and Lions . Average pack in front of them though for Ireland .

Mike Gibson has been referenced  , also won the Ulster schools sprints  , All Blacks said he was the best rugby player they had ever seen , partly because his rugby brain enabled him to anticipate and stop their attacks more or less before they began . Tough as old boots Mike , phenomenal trainer and extremely fit , started at out half but moved to centre later in career . Worst deliberate late tackle I ever saw was on him by a Lions team mate , initials JPR , in Lansdowne ,disgusting , particularly for someone who had taken the hippocratic oath . No action by referee .

Gareth Edwards has also been mentioned in passing , up to the eighties there was a running debate as to which was the better player between him and Gibson . Had it as a draw myself , Edwards could have played equally well in nearly every position behind the scrum .  Edwards had Barry John alongside though , quite a help .

Most of you probably did not see these guys playing , but they were all gifted and put many a smile on rugby fans faces .

I do not mention forwards , too hard to isolate perormance in the pack , you never know who is pushing hard and those saving themselves for the next sortie . Martin Johnson would be my first pick though on a team to beat the world .

I also saw Best throughout his career , mainly on TV but also in person . Even with an extra stone gained he would have looked like Rory beside Trump , a waif compared with any rugby set of forwards currently out there . Best was tough and brave apart from sublime skill , but you dont need to control the ball in rugby as in soccer  and that was George's forte . Would have been wasted on a rugby pitch . Sublime on the soccer field though .
Report itcanbedone March 1, 2017 9:48 AM GMT
Jackanory. Rolling back the years.  At 3 AM.  For no particular purpose other than to talk about who he knew and what he knew " back in the day".  With no obvious relevance to the topic at hand. Exasperating.

For me, I have this guy ranked at #2 in the Fruitcake countdown, second only to the Spaceman.
Report macrocky March 1, 2017 12:54 PM GMT
It's nice to be nice
Report Kelly March 2, 2017 2:24 AM GMT
Usual Ozy comment . Ignore .
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