Ireland/Scotland

Foot on their throat after getting back in front with 20 minutes to go.

Scotland out on their feet after massive tackle count, missing leaders (game management) on the pitch to close out the game.

Not much good winning autumn friendlies and not being able to close that out.

Over-hyped team crumbles. Performance littered with mistakes and very poor defensively in opening 30 minutes

spot on dj , as mincer has mentioned on here in the past , ireland rarely deliver when pressure on , especially when favs !!

Autumn friendlies

We do prefer being underdogs, but we have won this Championship in 2 out of the last 3 years, largely winning games as favourites.

Favourites aganst  Australia in the, ahem, Autumn friendly and we delivered.

So this label doesn't really apply as much it as once did.

Don't know if I will bother tuning in for England vs France, nether teams really make much of an effort in this competition according to rugby guru, Mincer...

The last time there was competition pressure similar to today was v the pumas in the wc 1/4 , they were blew off the pitch in the first 20 that day also .

I thought not to close out that match today when they were in such ascendancy was inexcusable.

How Heaslip didn't go to ground and recycle that ball was brain dead as Paul O' Connell intimated. Certain penalty with a strong possibility of a try.

Scotland were buried and Ireland couldn't close the door.

Evaluating the match as an individual event and impartially, they weren't ruthless enough at the time where it mattered most.

plenty of match/competition pressure since then Toby

Scotland were never buried....always within a couple of points.  We were well on top ...but all you need is field position to regain the lead through a penalty given such a scoreboard.

I don't think the pressure / hype was as high coming into the 6 nations last year oz , even joe said 3rd would be acceptable iirc .

You were watching a different match if you didn't think Scotland were on the ropes.

At that stage in Ireland's mind they were further than a point ahead.

Of course it was still alive, the game was there to be closed ot and and should have been slammed shut, but instead they left the door open and were deservedly punished by a moderate side.

Re the Heaslip pass....if you watch again, Henshaw was in prime position to take a pass, (which was why Heaslip made the call to make it)....and actually tripped...which was why he wasn't there to take it it.  T

Ireland were well up top but Scotland were not on the ropes from a scoreboard pov as explained.

You are never truly in control of a game, when only a point up.

Ok....am going to watch the non-triers at Twickers.

DJ is spot on in both his posts.
The Autumn friendlies are treated as more by the weaker teams, you can be sure the Canadians treated their game against us like we treated NZ or Oz.
England will be trying alright, and probably France too, because they've fallen so far behind the Southern Hemisphere teams they've nothing else to play for.

  England comfortably the second best team in the world currently....beat Aus 3 times in Aus in Summer and would steamroll the current Boks.

Didn't see it as got caught up helping a fella move his sh!t.

From what I've read, I'd say the head and brains of the team, Sexton would have steered them home when they hit the front. I'd say Jared Payne is probably a massive loss when the ball goes wide as well, seriously intelligent player with great fundamental skills.

They will be gutted; must have been a massive drop-off from the autumen for all Scotland have been coming a while.

Next 2o minutes will tell an awful lot about France, if they run though the line fitness wise, it could be the start of something.

Jackson had a really good second half as it happened, Neill.

It was lost in the first half with a litany of basic, atypical errors.

Great for us IF France can hang on.

Are France the best team in the world or are England not trying?

Very confusing, maybe the self-proclaimed rugby experts will clarify?

A seasoned statistician like yourself, dj, should not draw any conclusion based on a sample size of one match!

Gutted I missed it, had intended watching like the rest of the country, got totally blackballed!

Hopefully France pull something out here, opens the whole thing up again.

Really like Jackson as a player, so that's good to hear. Sexton brings intangibles all over the shop as well as the obvious skill set. Can drag along the scrum-half & centres, that kind of stuff

don't follow French rugby especially closely, but there is little doubt over their individual ability, application, fitness and organisation more the thing

Only digging it you as believe you're defending a point without cogent reasoning .

It's as if you feel compelled to defend the indefensible (because of previous posts or more generously for patriotic reasons  rather than evaluating the match on its own merits.

agree re Sexton, Neill.

Fingers crossed for France and that their fitness holds up.

Nothing patriotic about my line of reasoning...shure don't I officially hate my country

Sh!t

Anyone who thinks we are in 'control' of a game when 1 point up, 15 odd minutes on the clock and still making  errors should not be talking about cogent reasoning!  All it took for Scotland was  territory and a peno.

The criticism and analysis should be primarily focused on our first half performance.  You don't need to be a sage of the game to realise that!

Perfect example of a superiority complex and an inability to comprehend my posts.

Ireland had their foot on the throat of Scotland and released that pressure by not finishing off a legless Scotland. They played as if they were 10 points clear and not one.

Your argument reads like I know my rugby so I am correct, I haven't read anything that would substantiate your self-proclaimed assessment of being a rugby expert.

Brilliant result for us and for France. 

Let's hope they are back...incredibly they haven't won the Championship in 9 years.

shocking from Nowell, a great player btw, kicking the ball away at the end like that.

Kindly indicate  my "self-proclaimed assessment of being a rugby expert"

Hopefully Italy can make it a hat trick of upsets tomorrow.

Definitely in with a squeak.

I actually thought France had won..so busy  squabbling with DJ....

need a lie down!

Somehow I didn't even see the Teo try FFS and hadn't checked the scoreboard in last 10 mins or so.

Maybe we could get Betfair funding for some type of dormitry thingy(myself included haha)?

I had my lazy eye on this(between racing and early pga), i thought they were destroying them in the build up BEFORE going ahead, once they went ahead it was just very disappointing they didnt continue in the same manner before they went ahead, very poor.
No vitriol please, i'm not really a rugby head.

In fairness Pa, I was also having a feisty Tinder exchange at the time and am pumped full of some pain killing cortisone milarkey injection from earlier today (the syphillis has resurfaced) which may have affected my already poor multi tasking skills.

To take up DJs issue of us ballsing it  up and not closing out  the game…….

We  managed to go 1 point ahead with a full 17 minutes to go and were very much on top.

From there on, we continued to dominate territory and and possession, despite Scotland freshening their lagging team from the bench.   We didn’t go loose or over-play in the  hope of chasing a 4 try bonus point, we didn't take unnecessary risks or play from deep.  If we had, I think DJ would have a valid point.  Whilst we did try and largely succeeded in keeping the ball, we didn't go completely into our shell and just pick and go….it's not as if there was just a few minutes to run down.  Nor did we simply kick deep to the dangerous Hogg, we couldn't as we were camped in their territory anyway.  We broadly maintained our style of play which had dragged us back into the match, it is conservative  in nature anyway and we were so dominant by that stage that  a 4 try definitely point  definitely looked possible.  But, for re-emphasis, we never forced it.

We eventually gave away a holding on penalty at ruck time (it happens, credit to Scotland) …Scotland finally got some second half territory , then Jackson got over zealous trying to force a turnover at a ruck and Scotland kicked the penalty (a huge individual error tbf) .  2 penalties in quick succession….and Scotland had smashed and grabbed the lead.

For me, that really amounts to one inexcusable error in many minutes of Ireland trying to do the right thing.

Which is why, whilst ultimately we didn't close out and win the game from being one point up, I don't think in the overall analysis that one individual error represents poor game management,  or a poor  overall strategic approach from the 63rd minute on.

My critical focus would be the catastrophic first half which seems to tally with the overall reaction from on and off the pitch.  I haven't heard it voiced that we blew it by taking the wrong approach to closing it out.

Apologies for my, err, length.

I didn't fancy ireland. Not full strength and a weak bench in my opinion. The subs didn't bring a lot as a group.
Much be told since last world cup but when we are missing a few we still don't have a world class squad.
Also 1st game away to a resurgent Scotland it was always a squeaky bump game.
France impressed me  England had nothing in hand I thought and I thought the ref gave England too much.

The most interesting and entertaining part of this thread for me, was the battle of the giant Egos .

Indeed!  And worth remarking that we don't avoid the odd disagreement, unlike yourself Pa, and the Commander, Wonks.

Feb 5, 2017 -- 12:59AM, macrocky wrote:

I didn't fancy ireland. Not full strength and a weak bench in my opinion. The subs didn't bring a lot as a group.Much be told since last world cup but when we are missing a few we still don't have a world class squad.Also 1st game away to a resurgent Scotland it was always a squeaky bump game.France impressed me  England had nothing in hand I thought and I thought the ref gave England too much.

Would disagree, I think this is probably the most depth an Ireland squad has ever had, the areas we are probably little weaker are in the second row and in the centre for obvious reasons, outside of 9 and 10, the back division probably doesn't have the stardust of years gone by, full backs/wingers are workmanlike, huge potential in the centres, though.

There were enough good players on the pitch to win that yesterday. They meet again, Ireland go off strong favourites and win  most would predict.

Think I would agree with that, Neill.

Think the up and coming wide players are not far behind the workmanlike back 3.  Byrne, Sweetnam, O'Loughlin (a centre, really) all look talented to me.  I like O'Halloran, he has real gears, the harder the ground the better, and would like to see Healy back to his best.  Hopefully he will blood a few in Japan in the summer.  Not sure what is to be learned by bringing the likes of Earls (noting between the ears) Kearney, Trimble, Bowe etc.

Would love to see the back three freshened up, hopefully he bloods them in the summer and we see the fruits of that in the Autumn. Some great servants among the back three, very safe but would like to see the page turned.

Hopefully you stuck with your opening post winsam for the Irish MOTM winner.

16 points was the hcap directly after the match last week (before Italy played on Sunday) but it was 23/24 points by match time.(didn't have a bet)

There was always going to be some bit of a backlash this week, almost would have been better off playing one of the better teams this week.