Should the GAA drop the Tricolour and Anthem?

Ozy, on the windup AGAIN....

Ozymandius creates a thread,calls for Insideinfo and when he politely replies says he is obsessed.

Here is the order of play.
Ozymandius creates this thread.
On his second post he calls out Insideinfo.
Insideinfo replies.
Ozymandius calls this an escalating obsession.


Who's obsessed with who.

The thing is Wonks, there are a million or so Irish men up North who see the Tricolour as a divise nationalistic symbol....unfairly, given the tricolours composition, but there you go.

What a huge boost to the sport, if the GAA could reach out to these Irish people and get them playing.

A few suggestions:

* 'Ireland's Call' introduced instead of or alongside Amhrann na bhfiann.

*  A few flutists thrown in with the Artande Boys Band

* The NI flag flying, or possibly the Union Jack alongside the Triclour. 



If administrators want to boost numbers and grow the sport, why not start with this untapped accessible market?

I want to include the guy, Borneo.  Broaden his interests on here beyond moi

Get him involved in the banter, rather than sitting miserably on the periphery.  Pissing out of the tent rather than angrily inside in my direction.  What better way to extend an olive branch than proposing a reform of the GAA to help accomodate him and his brethern?

Ireland's Call is an embarrassment,how the rugby people tolerate it I don't know.

Most Internationalists and no borders merchants despise the GAA.
They hate its nationalism but more than that they hate its sense of community,its identifying with your county or your village.

Borneo, you remarked on Chit Chat recently that you "love your village, love your county and love your country".

When I had wiped a tear from my eye I wondered if you weren't being over emotional, but then,having composed myself I realised that I too, had love in my heart.

I love D4, Vogue Williams, Fair Trade Coffee and Planet Earth. And why shouldn't I shout about it from the rooftops too?

as pointed out dozy it appears its more you have an obsession with me.i know you have nothing better to do with your time so i guess its understandable that you are fixated on me because i have given you a bit of attention on here in recent months.you need to understand though it was only given because i had to point out on numerous occasions what a moron you are.for the record also im not a member of any organisation where the term brethren would be applicable.

What would you call your love for Irish rugby or your love for Leinster.

Its the same thing and equally valid.

Does your love, Borneo, ever extend beyond the National boundary?

You are mixing things up here.

Your love for fair trade coffee ( Lord help us ) is different and akin to my love for railways.
You are not comparing like with like.

You have hit the nail on the head....the Lord isn't helping these disadvantaged coffee farmers....that's why we have to step in and play our part!

I like trains too, I can recommend the Blue Train in South Africa.  Damned civillised way to travel.

We may have been at logger heads over the years, Borneo, but we ave never had to resort to a baying, uncouth, battlecry to meet up for in 'Londonderry' for bare knuckle fisticuffs. Saluti!

Blue Train the only way to travel now in South Africa.

Where did you stand on Apartheid, Borneo, not sure the topic has ever come up on here before?

I never want to interfere with other countries,my view was each to his own.

I did find it amusing that the only democracy ( admittedly a very narrow one ) in Africa was the one that upset all the Liberals.

The sporting side was disappointing because we were denied seeing a great rugby team but worse was the cricket as that South African cricket team was one of the best ever.

Despite all your liberal bleatings on here I don't see you at the head of anti apartheid marches.

They should start by dropping "Ya Know"

Personally, I find institutionalised racial segregation and discrimination hard to stomach.

I can picture you in a Safari suit, keeping the Natives in check.  You would have made a splendid colonist.

I was part of the colonised.

I just look on colonialism as of its time,I don't hate colonists.

I have the same attitude to Irish history,I'm a Republican but I don't hate Protestants.
I also accept that Unionists have a legitimate point of view.i also consider them Irishmen.

ozy trying to create tension on the forum once again and ends up getting schooled by wildman and co. lol

I tell you who is looking very tired lads, poor auld Gary O'Brien.  ATR won't let him take a holiday apparently.

News flash to Wildman not all Republicans were/are Catholics and not all Unionists are protestants, judging by your last post you seem to be under this illusion.

To get back to Ozymandius opening topic i feel the Flag will never change, as for the Anthem the vast majority of irish people Identify with the tune rather the words[most dont even know the english version of the song ] The wording should change; not the tune. anyway heres the English version.

The song was first published in Irish Freedom in 1912 and quickly became the most popular of the Irish Volunteer's marching songs. In 1926 Amhrán na bhFiann/ The Soldier's Song was adopted as the National Anthem of Ireland, replacing the unofficial "God Save Ireland".

FIRST VERSE:

We'll sing a song, a soldier's song
With cheering, rousing chorus
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we wait the mornings light
here in the silence of the night
We'll chant a soldier's song.

CHORUS:

Soldiers are we, whose lives are pledged to Ireland
Some have come from a land beyond the wave,
Sworn to be free,
no more our ancient sireland
Shall shelter the despot or the slave;
tonight we man the Bearna Baoghal
In Erin's cause.
come woe or weal;
'Mid cannon's roar and rifle's peal
We'll chant a soldier's song.            Up the Dubs   

P.S There nothing wrong with a little Patriotism Oz ,i say leave well enough alone beyond that.

There will be plenty of flags flying at GAA stadiums other than the tricolour when the Rugby World Cup arrives.

I'm sure the GAA would do the same for other less fortunate sports such as soccer etc.

So it's OK in Ozymandius mind for Rugby and Soccer stadiums to fly the tricolour and not GAA stadiums.
I know it's only a Rocketfingers anti Irish wind up thread. The boys in Ravenhill and Windsor Park would get a great kick out of a Union Jack flying at a GAA match.

The strong get stronger and the rest pick holes. Every country is proud of their FLAG.

Gant,

A. I never started the thread so it's not my thread dimwit.

B. I would think that they're not on about taking down tricolour and putting up the Union flag gant, it is about depoliticising sport my friend, basically make the sport for all, it is easy to see that Harte acknowledges that this is currently not the case via his comments.

No need for any further chidlish replies.

So the tricolour offends you.

The NI flag flies proudly at Rugby internationals.

Is it not the same at the ALL Ireland?

GAA in the summer, Soccer in the winter. Works in our area.

Rugby is still confined to certain schools and so called elites in Leinster but it's changing a small bit.
Connacht Rugby are getting there but it will take time.
Munster Rugby seems to have an open door and you can make it if good enough.
Ulster Rugby is in good shape and Ireland's call is a big help to these lads

Ozymandius, didn't realise that.
Do the fly it for Soccer Internationals also?.

I do agree, if a Northern team is in the All Ireland maybe they should fly a Northern Ireland flag.

All the provinces have open doors, Gant.

The reason the Schools still dominate in Leinster is that they are Quasi Acadamies in all but name, such is the level of their preparation.  The good Club kids are playing catch up but the good ones are making it.

I don't think it is flown for Soccer internationals..can't see any reason to.

Are the club kids at much of a disadvantage?.

Why not fly it at Soccer and then fly it proudly at Rugby Internationals?.

yeah, significant, such is the quality and intensity of the school coaching and preparation.

Well, because the Irish rugby team represents both countries.

I see now why so many good lads could slip through the net. Money talks.

Surprised at you there Gant.

So are you saying some of our lads on the soccer team from the Northern part of Ireland would not appreciate the Ulster Banner flying high.

We are talking abut the NI flag, not the Ulster flag.

Workrider, ozymandius admitted the fee paying government subsidised schools had a huge advantage over the young lad at his local club.

Gant getting destroyed by Ozy

what a schooling silver spoons is getting

Gant getting destroyed by Ozy

what a schooling silver spoons is getting

What's the difference?

Getting destroyed is right.

Rocketfingers, do you lads own a tricolour to fly at the showgrounds?

Sorry Gant, should have kept stum, look who's arrived ....

Gant, Meant I should have kept my mouth shut, gave the clown an opening...

He's never far behind when something Irish is getting a bashing.

The good club lads catch up, and there is a huge focus on the coaching of the Youths (underage representative club players)...but inevitably the schools have greater access to their players and a higher standard or rugby to compete in.

Funny thing is the Schools don't like sharing or releasing their players for representative preparation.

Do you think it should be a worldwide thing that countries drop the flag and anthem at sporting events?

Oz i see the nerves are clearly showing in some posters, obvious that some of you have been through some trauma at the hands of me down through the years.

No, just in cases where flags alientes certain sections of the community.

Anyway, you ave already admitted that both should fly..so i think progress has been made here.

Come on Rocketfingers, you are always great fun as we all know your agenda.

Do you think it should be a worldwide thing that countries drop the flag and anthem at sporting events?

Gant i want to see the tricolour flying when Ireland play Australia in GAA football even if it is just to remind the Aussies to what sport they're playing.

Ozymandius, I look forward to the day the tricolour is flying high at Windsor Park or Ravenhill, it's a 2 way street.

Very harsh to blame the biggest sporting organisation in the 32 counties for a flag issue. Anthems are only usually at finals and flags on match days.

Rocketfingers, they return the respect when the team travels over to OZ.

Pm Gant,

I agree Workrider.

Ireland won the Grand Slam in Ravenhill in 1948.  The tricolour flew that day.  As it would should we ever return. 

We are fairly grown up about these things in Rugger.

Does it fly at club or province matches.

Wonky the green eyed monster, loser

I don't think it flies at club or provincial matches anywhere.

You are wrong there, so your silly thread is blown out of the water.

what are you like?

If my thoughts are incorrect on this particular point, kindly put me right.

The beauty of the GAA is that the Tipperary team is comprised of Tipperary men.
Not alone are the players known but their families are also known,its also a source of pride when a player from your club or village makes the county team.

Its sad but inevitable to see the way our provinces are gone in rugby.
I know they have to be competitive but this highest bidder loyalty is anathema to me.

Ozymandius, just let the people in the North be, they have never had it so good. If a flag keeps people away from a sport, do they really want to be there in the first place.

As for Rugby, old stock hate this Ireland's Call over the National Anthem. The team is Ireland, you want to wear the green and be proud, the Ulster Flag galls people bUT they tolerate it
The days of David Humphries in a green jersey humming god save the queen are long gone, time to stop bowing down to keep people happy.

The Tricolour is not an offensive FLAG.

Why would you not want to broaden the appeal of a sport and get more kids playing?  I just don't get it.

What is the harm in being inclusive and flying both flags?

Wildman, Ozymandius will never appreciate this. I do enjoy the provinces Rugby even if it is gone too commercial and Irish players might struggle to come through. Soccer to be fair is all about money, he who spends the most gets the best players.

Of course, I appreciate it, but we had no choice but to go professinal and this,inevitably has had it's plusses and minuses.

Ozymandius, I think you just will never get it as it's not in your DNA.
I think if you asked a Northern Catholics that question you would get a very long passionate answer.

I don't understand that mentality..people need to move on ..its a sport...get kids of all persuasions out playing it.

Ozymandius, I agree Rugby had to go pro and we have 4 very god provincial teams in the country because of that.

The kids argument is a flawed one......it's the parents.

Watch out Gant is implying he is more Irish than you oz, he is scratching the bottom of the barrel now, sure sign you have him beaten.

Anyway you need to get some shut eye gant Chelsea have a big match tomorrow night don't forget.

Its not flawed; it would be if I had suggested the kids were making decisions.

But sure look it depends how you are brought up. I was brought up to love all sports and have played most sports.
Some households can be blinkered but then again I didn't grow up in a part of our country where people of a certain religion were oppressed. Maybe the GAA in Northern Ireland symbolises the oppression and does not appeal to some of the population.

In the South, Rugby had the same problem for years except in reverse.

Why should anyone up the north be offended by having to listen to the Irish anthem or by seeing an Irish flag at a GAA game? It's our national sport. I've been to different sporting events around the world and have never been offended by having to listen to another country's anthem.
Maybe the yanks should also stop playing their anthem at baseball games considering all the Cubans that play?
Personally I couldn't give a sh1t if it's played or not but I would miss it for getting the crowd going after "fé lámhach na bpiléar"
One last point to the earlier suggestion that we turn the flag around, we might have to talk to the Ivory Coast first.

It's sad as Ozymandius suggests that flags and anthems keep people away from certain sports.
His own Sport that he champions have fought the flag and anthem dilemma for a long time with regard to the National team.

Just out of interest cos all I have seen was a headline about Mickey Harte; Are there people looking for these to be dropped and why?

My sport matured and compromised, Gant, when will yours?

Sam, are you against the dual flag proposal?

2 people only and they hate the GAA with a passion.
One of vocal lads giving out about it, his soccer team are afraid to travel to away games in Derry City.

Ozymandius, if Irelands Call and an Ulster flag at international's is what it takes, well done.

Has it improved participation in Rugby in the North of Ireland for Catholics.

You seem to have trouble following the discussion at times.

Ireland's Call etc was to placate the Unionists, not encourage the Nationalists.

I don't see why there should be a 2nd flag flown, but if there was I don't think it would bother me. I go to watch the game, not the flags.

Inclusivesness is the reason.  Have you read the thread discussion?

Anyway, good on you for agreeing to the dual flag.

As you go to watch the game and not sing songs, would you have any objection to a dual anthem or perhaps a compromise version?

I am following the thread. You reckon,Irelands call was only to keep unionists/loyalists happy.
What could the GAA give these lads to get them to send their kids to GAA training. I know a lot of GAA lads play soccer up North but not every club is welcoming.

If people are that sensitive that they wouldn't go to a game if their own flag wasn't up on a pole beside a tricolour, then I can honestly say maybe we're as well off without them. What I said was that it wouldn't bother me what flag was flown at any sporting event I'd attend.
Now I didn't grow up with internship or all the other sh1t that went on up the north under their flag so I'm pretty sure there's a lot of northern Catholics that might feel a lot different than me. I don't get the problem with the tricolor though, it's the Irish national flag for the Irish national sport.
Excuse my ignorance but do they play County cricket (England's national sport) in the north?
And if they did and I wanted to play, I most certainly wouldn't expect them to fly a tricolor for me.

I hear ya; feck their sensitvities, just watch out for our own. Why bother making an effort to expand the game?

As regards Cricket, we play together as an Island, and in common with its counterparts for rugby union and field hockey, Cricket Ireland does not use the Irish tricolor, but instead employs its own flag.  It's all very grown up.

Ok, you tell me. What are their sensitivities? What has the Irish flag done to them? I'm being honest here, I don't get it. As far as I can see, if they hate Ireland that much that they won't attend a game where an Irish flag is flying, putting up an other flag beside it won't change too many minds.

WITH MIXED NARRIAGE 32YEARS(MIRACLE STILL TOGETHER) HATE TALKING POLITICS  BUT THE NORTH WILL NEVER CHANGE AS LOTS PARENTS ARE   STILL BIGOTS  A FEW EXAMPLES  I COACH  CRICKET IN LOCAL CATHOLIC SCHOOLS AND LOTS KIDS  ARE  AS GOOD AS IVE EVER SEEN BUT  THERE PARENTS SIMPLY DONT WANT THEM PLAYING  THE GAME (A YOUNG LAD FROM NATIONLIST AREA WAS TOLD NOT TOO ATTEND BY HIS GAA DAD  HE WENT WAS BRILLIANT  I ASKED WHY  HE PLAYED SAID IF HIS DAD TOLD HIM TO GO  PLAY HE SIMPLY WOULDNT  IT WAS JUST THE CHANCE TO DISSOBEY) BUT HE SAID HE CANT COME AS NOT THAT FUSSED ON WHICH IS PITY AS WITH IRELAND LOOKING TEST STATUS THE CATHOLIC AREAS ARE STILL 70% UNTAPPED AS IM CONVINCED THERE LOADS EOIN MORGANS AND ED  JOYCES UP HERE.

AND I NO FOR FACT ITS SAME WITH PRODESTANT KIDS PLAYING GAELIC/HURLING  THERE PARENTS SAY never  never. NO DOUBT RUGBY IS THE ONE SPORT THAT IS MAKING  MASSIVE DIFFERENCE UP NORTH AS IT IS  BREAKING DOWN BARRIERS AND THINK IRELANDS CALL IS  DECENT EXAMPLE OF HOW IT HELPED IN THAT  AS THERE LOTS FUN DAYS COMBINING RUGBY AND GAA WHICH IS GREAT INNIATIVE 
TAKE CRICKET THE SUPERB  IRISH  ALL ROUNDER JOHN MOONEY  STOPPED AT MATCH AT NORTH DOWN CRICKET CLUB  BETWEEN IRELAND AND ITALY  IT TOOK 1 HOUR BEFORE THE UNION JACK WAS TAKING DOWN . WHICH I THINK WAS WRONG  AS NO PLAYER  FROM NORTHERN IRELAND  EVER ASKED FOR THE TRICOLOUR TO BE TAKING DOWN AND NEVER SHOULD AS EVERYONE SHOULD RESPECT THE FLAG OF EVERY  COUNTRY .

THERE  IS NO DOUBT THERE IS FAR TOO MANY flegs  FLYING   UP HEAR AS EACH AREA MARKS THERE TERRITORY OUT  AND ITS NEVER GOING CHANGE PITY AS ITS DISGRACE LEAVING THEM TATTERED OR TORN

SO OZZY I NO YOU LOVE THE OLD stirring THE POT AND ITS DECENT THREAD THAT IS GOOD   READ  BUT I FOR ONE DONT THINK THE GAA NEED TO DROP EITHER BUT UNDERSTAND YOUR THINKING  BUT ILL SAY THIS THE BEST FRIENDS IN HAVE FROM BOTH RELIGIONS ARE FROM PLAYING SPORT AGAINEST THEM AND NO fleg OR ANTHEM WILL EVER CHANGE THAT  GOOD PEOPLE SEE THRU MOST AND GET ON WITH PLAYING SPORTS .

Brilliant piece Norn, a inside view showing whats really going on .

Great post by NORN IRON.

I raced plenty of times in Downpatrick and Down Royal and was never offended by the flying of a Union Jack.
I've been to point to points in Northern Ireland which are generally run by Unionists,never bothered me.

Even our own point to points are generally run by Protestants but so what.

Disappointed with John Mooney,he was in North Down Cricket club what harm was there in them flying their flag.

Norn,
Will it take a few generations for them to forget ?

NORN,

Super stuff, you blow Ozymandius and Rocketfingers out of the  water with your inside information.
The barstooler politicos haven't a clue what's going happening on the ground.

ozy is more a commode politico.good post norn.

Ozy this, Ozy that.  Have you thought about an Ozy tattoo?

Apparently Ozy banned ....

Oh ,just seen other thread,bizarre people reporting others,how childish...

I think he may be giving Rocketfingers a hand with the tarmac job in Lambourn.

Great post by Norn , outlining some of the many problems we experience in the north ( mainly).  Slightly surprised by him finding substantial attitude against cricket participation by some parents , but reckon , like a lot of aspects of life in NI , it partly depends on where you live .

I grew up in Belfast , played cricket , soccer , rugby , hockey, tennis etc before I ever saw any GAA activity other than via radio courtesy of  my uncles who listened to Radio Eireann and M O' H . Finished up there were 3(only) of us on our road playing county minor , nearest club in Co Down was 15 miles away , so we had to travel across the city to  Co Antrim . We won everything underage  , somehow no medals ever appeared , not that we were interested particularly . That generation team went on to win 6 or 7 senior county titles in a row .

My mother still lives in the same house  , 1200 yards from George Bests home and  half a mile from Ravenhill where I spent every Saturday afternoon ( and we were allowed into the changing rooms to mingle with the players , lots of them internationals . Changed times , health and safety would not allow such activity nowadays . Our parish priest was beside us on the terraces every Saturday .

Now the 2 largest GAA clubs membership wise in Down operate largely from the same hinterland which threw up those 3 early players many moons ago . God knows how many teams they field , and generally the girls are better than the boys success wise .  Relatively few camogs in our day , life might have more interesting had there been . Our 3 grandchildren playing GAA  locally to date all love the competition they are experiencing , they play other games too netball and basketball for the girls , soccer for the boy . Cannot interest them in golf to date , too slow and still deemed an old mans sport despite Rory ( and Des Smyth who visited local school recently ).

Anthems dont matter a damn to the kids , they were at the All -Ireland football final this year sitting beside me and my wife and post match in the Croke Park hotel where the craic was great , despite the crap match  . Anthems played on days like that are part and parcel of the occasion , there is a freely elected President of the country present , and due respect is obligatory . I have stood many times to "The Queen" , as occasion demanded , never caused much of a problem except once when I witnessed it being used by some militant trade unionists attempting to upstage the senior manager in my then place of work ( and he was from a family heavily involved on the unionist front at the founding of the NI "state" in the twenties ) . I was laughing internally , my work colleagues ( unionist to a man , I was the only taig on the island so to speak )were very discomfited .

The main problem inter sporting wise up here is the soccer thing . Belfast Celtic had to quit in the forties despite being the best team in Ireland , south or north , and the nationalist supporters had nowhere to go , and the bitter legacy still survives to an extent . That attitude to THE foreign game ( soccer) spilled over into other sports at the time , might explain Norn's experience somewhat .

Today has not helped .  Rocky political times ahead . Batten down the hatches .

yes