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22 Jun 16 10:22
Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 21,252 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
Nathan Carter will be playing to a packed crowd in Leopardstown but more importantly there will be a vote for independence in Britain.

Nearly every Irish politician is campaigning for Remain.
All the Irish media howling for Remain.

Its also presumed that Brexit would be bad for Ireland,I don't agree.

For me the EU is the evil empire and its crumbling.
Britain leaving would just accelerate the demise of this undemocratic experiment.
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Report Ozymandius June 27, 2016 5:52 PM BST
I never adocated entering the Euro...I was firmly against as were 90% of Economists. It made no sense
Report wildmanfromborneo June 27, 2016 5:58 PM BST
That's not at issue although its not true to say 90% of economists were against it either.
Report Ozymandius June 27, 2016 5:59 PM BST
How about responding directly to these points;

As the negotiations to leave become protracted, in such a climate of uncertainty, consumers will reduce their spending and companies will defer their investment decisions.  Unemployment will soar.  Depressed domestic demand and the possibility of dragged out trade deal negotiations combine to create a perfect economic storm.

You are pinning your hopes on new trade deals being negotiated swiftly and advantageously.  Even if this happens, and I don't believe it will....exactly why will they be more advantageous to the existing EU deals?  And these mythical trade deals are going to trump the very real fears in the last paragraph, plus the fears about the City , the mass exodus of MultiNationals who need a European HQ.  I don't think so.  What exactly are you thinking of putting in these miraculous trade deals that will compensate for these massive negatives?
Report Ozymandius June 27, 2016 6:00 PM BST
90% of respected independent Economists were, that's a certainty.  You had to be loop the loop to think that replacing Sterling with the Euro was a good idea for Britain.
Report workrider June 27, 2016 6:21 PM BST
Sterling has stood the test , so even outside the single exchange they more than held their own ,of course there are going to be worries now they have broken out and are going their own way .Huge concerns eminating from Germany and France over their LOSS of trade with Britain . Its now a two way street .
Report wildmanfromborneo June 27, 2016 6:21 PM BST
All agreed there would be short term problems ( the ubiquitous bumpy road ) I think they will be temporary.

However that uncertainty which does scare the markets could just as easily arrive if Britain had remained.
I think the EU has failed,I think the Euro will collapse,the migrant crisis will worsen,Britain out has preempted this and will be way ahead of the other European countries with heir deals.
Report Ozymandius June 27, 2016 6:32 PM BST
that's an awful lot of ifs..and maybes....that need to happen for exit to make sense.

At least we both now agree about the short term pain for the economy, I see it as at least a medium term problem, probably longer. And if the Euro currency collapses, and I too think there is a decent  chance it will, no independent trade deals will protect the UK form the fallout and added uncertainty and market chaos.  In fact, by the time it happens (if it happens) the UK could be so weakened and brittle so as to be on the brink of collapse....their main trading partners in dissaray would almost certainly be the final nail in the coffin.
Report workrider June 27, 2016 6:42 PM BST
Ozy, stop this crying wolf , have a look at this and come back and tell us you were wrong ,oh and btw get your little puppet to have a look as well.Thank me later...
Report wildmanfromborneo June 27, 2016 7:43 PM BST
The EU have lost one of their big payers,they are also a huge market.

The EU has a lot of countries that are skint,the EU is in decline.

If Britain had the guts they would lift the sanctions on Russia,funnel their money through London,that would create a fair few jobs.
Report mrtopnotch June 28, 2016 12:27 PM BST
I voted to remain and even if I voted to leave I would not be wishing for the break up of the EU.
Putin would just love that, and simply put he is a very dangerous man!

I am very sad that we left the EU, also that the masses voted  on a immigration issue, many thinking that people would actually be kicked out. I am also very sad to see the spike in hate race crimes especially against the Polish people (as my wife is Polish and is very distressed by this). I am not sure what to do with my family, my young daughter was born here and I am very confused, in some sort of Brexit Coma. I normally am very optimistic and believe in getting on with things, I am struggling at the moment.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 28, 2016 12:38 PM BST
There is no spike in hate crimes,just a few bad losers highlighting everyday unpleasant incidences.

Why are you struggling,no one bar some serious criminals will be chucked out.
What do you think will change ?

Your country got its independence back you should be cheering.

Oddly enough we have plenty of Poles working in the towns near me,I find them delightful.
Hard working with a sunny disposition and dare I say it avid massgoers.
Report mrtopnotch June 28, 2016 1:02 PM BST
Hello Wildmanfromborneo
I don't agree that Independence has been taken back, English self-assertion has trumped UK preservation. We will see the consequences and how they will play out over the next decade or so. It may well be English independence that is celebrated in 10 years time.

What happened at the Polish Cultural and Social Center in West London was not an everyday unpleasant incident - they had never experienced it before and it shouldnt be taken lightly.
Report Racingqueen June 28, 2016 1:12 PM BST
What happened at the Polish Cultural and Social Center in West London was not an everyday unpleasant incident - they had never experienced it before and it shouldnt be taken lightly.

So a one off incident as wildman ha said.
Report mrtopnotch June 28, 2016 1:17 PM BST
Racingqueen, there hasn't been only one incident over the last few days, but I am sure you know that.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 28, 2016 1:23 PM BST
It was only a bit of graffiti and look at the response.

Britain has long had strong ties with Poland,Polish pilots still remembered and Poles are no danger to Britain.

They genuinely came to work,they don't arrive and just hate the country they have come to.

Polish immigration has never been a problem.
Report frank60 June 28, 2016 2:33 PM BST
It would be interesting to revisit this thread in a years time[ it may take a lot longer then a year] to see how Brexit is performing, its not great at the min and a lot Old timers across the pond are wishing that had another vote, [ no chance] .. There is a lot of fear in the banking world , Wildmans headlineing thread will be of intrest to many on the forum and will be well worth revisiting ,

Wildman posted at 18.21 on the 27th.....All agreed there would be short term problems ( the ubiquitous bumpy road ) I think they will be temporary.
lets hope there right .
Report insideinfo June 28, 2016 2:36 PM BST
paranoia and poor picked upon me syndrome has set in,im seeing it all over social media and its very contagious.i saw one tw&t (whos hungarian) posting on social media that someone in a gym asked him a simple question...was he polish? to which he replied no.the conversation ended there but then he took to social media to complain that he'd been subjected to some sort of racist incident Crazy
Report workrider June 28, 2016 5:00 PM BST
Polish people play hard, work hard when abroad ,remind you of any other race...
Report rock piper June 28, 2016 11:07 PM BST
"If Britain had the guts they would lift the sanctions on Russia,funnel their money through London,that would create a fair few jobs."

One of the more cretinous posts on here by one of the Dole Office Dictators, I could spend a while on this but I haven't the time that those unable to find  or carry out employment have indulging their fascistic fantasies. Sanctions were imposed on Russia because it annexed territory from a sovereign state, and for waging a proxy war on the same state, and something to do with a jet liner. This is the liberty that the weak minded want from a strongman. Its hardly worth mentioning that all the dirty money in the world including Russian is churned through the City of London.

When I came to this country first it was 1973 there were people shieting in the fields for the want of any sort of a toilet, but at least they could wipe their asres, I am not sure that some posters on here have the wit to do that.
Report rock piper June 28, 2016 11:41 PM BST
Ya and Donald Tusk fired the missile that shot down the Airliner, men in tinfoil hats have proved this.

Seems like the Brits are doing the best to ignore the referendum themselves and remember dock leafs and not nettles when ye are obliged to shiet in the fields again.

God, there used to a betting forum on here once and a pretty good one at that, now it is just cranks that would be banned from a moderated forum that are bored agreeing with each other on Stormfront.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 28, 2016 11:56 PM BST
Differing views are allowed on here.

Rock Piper sounds very cranky,people he doesn't agree with are " cretinous "
He also has contempt for people who don't work.
He seems to credit himself with civilising the Irish and his vulgar similes show more contempt for ordinary people.

Another member of the intolerant left.
Report unitedbiscuits June 29, 2016 1:53 PM BST
Interested to see how Brexit looks from your perspective. UK credit rating downgraded, GDP surpassed by France, all achieved in the first week following the vote. There will be a recession - in a just world, the damage would be confined to the Vote-leave f**k-wits who caused it but the most I can hope for is that England pays, rather than the wider world.
Report insideinfo June 29, 2016 3:20 PM BST
in the long term it will prove a wise choice for the UK and all the fools who cant see past the end of the week will be thankful to those they are currently refering to as f**kwits,racists,bigots,xenophobes etc etc...

maybe unitedbiscuits is just a bit bitter because hes saw the value in his shares in his employer (w.hills) drop even further since the vote.
Report Ozymandius June 29, 2016 6:14 PM BST
^ no surprise to see all the Oiks on here rowing in with the Out cause.

KL should know better but he has this anti-establishment chip on his shoulder which clouds his judgement on such matters.
Report workrider June 29, 2016 6:23 PM BST
30,000 lobbyists in Brussells ,you one of them mate ?...I see the rent a crowd out in force last night, the mask has fallen , they can NEVER  again get people to believe they are the PEOPLES party . More Conservitive than the Conservitives themselves now...Laugh
Report workrider June 29, 2016 6:30 PM BST
Found this little gem to make you ponder Ozy..
Gin    29 Jun 16 10:51 
It seems that our country has radically changed in the last few weeks and these are the new rules:

We should embrace diversity and be open to the ideas of people who are different from us and sometimes see things in a different way to us – unless of course they have a different opinion to us on the Brexit debate. Then we should do all we can do bear down on them and accuse them of being vile, racist, little Englanders and do everything we can to suppress their opinions.

A young person’s vote is now apparently worth more than an old person’s vote.

The Scottish “nationalist” Party apparently want to leave a union where the larger partner has ceded more and more control to them over the last few years only to join a much larger one that will take it away again.

After terrorist atrocities are carried out in the name of religion, we have people falling over themselves in the rush to tell us that we should in no way link the peaceful majority of that religion to the attacks. Yet, when a few extreme nutters attack foreigners in the name of Brexit, those same people are out with the tar brush blaming those attacks on more than half of the country.

Those on the far left who for years have railed against the establishment are now apoplectic that we have finally turned our back on one of the most elite, overly bureucratic, un-democratic institutions on the earth (and one whose stated aim is to become a USE - United States of Europe) and are screaming for us not to leave.

It is now acceptable to pillory voters who voted to leave by pointing out that they are in the main poorer and less well educated (as if being poorer and less well educated meant your vote is somehow worth less). I will wait until the next general election and then accuse Labour supporters of the same and then we will see just how acceptable this practice really is…………

All over the country there have been rallies to protest about the result by people who want a second referendum. These are literally anti-democracy rallies by the same people who can normally be seen protesting in the name of democracy.

It's a strange world.Happy
Report olddesperado June 29, 2016 6:46 PM BST
Strange world indeed.

Good piece above WR.
Report insideinfo June 29, 2016 6:55 PM BST
pity the dim ozy doesnt have the ability to see anything from someones elses point of view.
Report baNjackst June 29, 2016 7:01 PM BST
As an outsider looking in I am surprise at the shameful reaction of the remain champ who lost out. They question the mentality of the leave champ and just won't except the democratic decision of the people. I myself don't believe in the failed union and only hope for the quick break up of the entire EU. Although I recognise we would all suffer for a while on the monetary fund, it would be worth it to govern the laws of your own country. When the EEC was founded it was a trade and commerce union between countries not a dictatorship that would insist on how each country is ran.
If France is the role model then shame on anyone who had a vote and then voted to remain. They have destroyed their own country are weak and as seen over the past 10 years are capable of bringing the whole of europe to a standstill when they don't agree with their own goverence.
The UK were heading down that road and from what I can see of the remain camps attitute they had one lucky escape. Non exceptance and we'll make everyone elses life a misery.
Well as the vote went the way of those who sought to have their country back and not the other way round theres a simply solution to those who wanted to remain in Europe. Go to Europe
Report insideinfo June 29, 2016 7:09 PM BST
spot on! ive found it quite amusing at times tho watching the remain camp throwing their tantrums Crazy
Report Ozymandius June 29, 2016 7:42 PM BST
theres a simply solution to those who wanted to remain in Europe. Go to Europe

Well, indeed.  How very tolerant of you.

50% of the population should leave including the vast majority wth a brain....yoou would be left with Wonks as Prime Minister and Inside Info as the Chancellor of the Exchequer..with presumably the rest of the Whatsapp group forming the remainder of the Cabinet Cry

I do hope Spitting Image makes a comeback.
Report insideinfo June 29, 2016 7:47 PM BST
not one of your better attempts at humour d'opy...sorry d'ozy although the watsapp group are generally a bunch of very intelligent and well informed individuals,with the exception of myself ofcourse Laugh so they would make i great cabinet.
Report workrider June 29, 2016 7:51 PM BST
Your lot on the other hand treat those who voted to leave with LOVE and KINDNESS did they you plonker ...The mask has fallen and the remain side have been shown for what they are ,a bunch of racist prats ,the only democracy they want is THEIRS ...
Report baNjackst June 29, 2016 7:55 PM BST
see ozy you are claiming that yourself and the other remain voters are the intelligent ones, that just shows how bright you are, I call you european pigeons. Flock around together talk and create sh1t and unknown to yourselves don't have a brain. The cats out of the bag sorry, I can't put up with your intolerance any more.
Report Ozymandius June 29, 2016 7:58 PM BST
Good heavens, both camps flinging 'intolerance' accusations at each other.

am not claiming anything, baN...its a statistical fact about the breakdown of the vote.
Report Kelly June 29, 2016 7:59 PM BST
Main argument for remain is economics and jobs . Heard today of a meeting last Friday morning which was to rubber stamp a 50 MILLION initial spend on an operation to be set up here which would run and run given it would be a world ( or at least European leader). Very short meeting , no operation  , scrubbed .  How many ( good) jobs would that have generated , mainly for graduates so no minimum wages etc ?  Guarantee you the office of our First Ministers would have been well represented in the media if it had gone ahead , publicity , despite one of them urging followers to leave .

Re sovereignty , Blair became Bush's acolyte , Cameron also liked to be very close to Obama  , and the next one will behave similarly  too ,particularly if its Boris and there are photo opportunities .

The fracture of the EU would be right up with the terrorists aims  , individual countries are easier to "pick off " than a group . Lots of the EU laws are barmy , and costly , and some are not fit for the real purpose they might have set out to achieve  , and the social charter they engender makes business tricky betimes .

The reason most voted to leave was based on emotional return to an England where order and law and behaviour were restored to  past criteria . It ignored the fact that the NHS and most of the factories are staffed by generally hard working foreigners doing jobs the "locals" do not want to do or feel is beneath them . The airwaves have been full of like stories since last Friday , all with the ring of truth . The work ethic among the "locals" has been watered down through various generations  , hard to resurrect it .

Reform the EU , put a benevolent dictator in charge , throw out the stupid and unenforceable laws ( or ignore them like the French do ) and give back limited sovereignty to member states who can be trusted to conform ( with fiscal penalties for those who dont , or expulsion ) . Run a tighter ship all around . Easy to say , hard to achieve though.
Report pa lapsy June 29, 2016 11:20 PM BST
Unitedbiscuits, the "fcukwits" were the politians beforehand who were allowing a million to cross the Mediterranian and however many by other means into the EU, no one was listening to the ordinary persons concerns,simple as that.
The now complainers had no empathy with that and just wanted to preserve their status quo, whatever the consequences it serves them right.
Report insideinfo June 29, 2016 11:55 PM BST
he shows the same disdain for the exit voters that he shows to all the hills customers whos bets he knocks back on a daily basis.hes just a robot really.
Report pa lapsy June 30, 2016 12:05 AM BST
Maybe just asking the question on behalf of an Irish perspective Insideinfo but calling the leave voters that because the result didn't go his way wouldn't have anyone too sympathethic.
The remain side should be ashamed at not complaining at the level of immigration being let into the EU beforehand but no,too happy with their "investments" "pensions" etc,don't upset any applecarts we are coining it at the moment and feck jack,they can live with them.
Report unitedbiscuits June 30, 2016 7:31 AM BST
Thank you for the insights, gentlemen. Have to say that you echo the vocal support for Leave this side of the water. I'm surprised but have to say that I have not seen migration as a threat. My main reasons for supporting Remain were not economic but, on that theme, since Brexit, your betting bank is worth more than someone playing against you in sterling.
Report unitedbiscuits June 30, 2016 7:33 AM BST
insideinfo - Well, there's a name from the past. How are you?
Report Ozymandius June 30, 2016 8:14 AM BST
The now complainers had no empathy with that and just wanted to preserve their status quo, whatever the consequences it serves them right.

There have been many extraordinary statements on here over the years but this is right up there.

So, what you are saying is even if the ant-immigration protest vote plunges the UK into economic ruin, it will have been worth it?  surely the main plank of the anti-immigration stance is the perception that it is curtailing the standard of living of less well off indigenous Britons?   Now you are saying that even if Brexit leads to economic ruin it will have been worth it as attempt to return to racial purity and as a manner of showing two fingers to the Establishment?  Prouder and Purer but Poorer.  And there was me thinking it was all about improving living standards of the working English man.
Report pa lapsy June 30, 2016 8:59 AM BST
"And here was me thinking it was all about improving the living standrads of the working class English man".

Nothing about the return to racial impurity, the consequences of unchecked immigration are amongst others a cheap labour pool,pressyre on housing, schooling and the NHS.
Why did you not voice your concerns beforehand regarding the millions the EU were letting in from mainly 3rd world countries and as proven most were econmic migrants,you should have spoken up.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 30, 2016 9:09 AM BST
The predicted economic ruin,the return to the dark ages isint taking place.

If anything Brexit is causing more economic hardship to the EU than to Britain.
Report workrider June 30, 2016 10:22 AM BST
Ozy, is getting lost in his anger ,and raising frivous arguments in a attempt to halt a freefall into emancipation .
Report mrtopnotch June 30, 2016 11:20 AM BST
I am coming around to the opinion that there has been and is a deep seethed loathing of Europe (EU) that was fueled in the 70s/80s (Thatcher didn't help) and the UK really never accepted the EU as a friend/partner and were carried kicking and screaming in to the EU (The UK Press never accepted the EU). The EU has its flaws I agree, but to me it was/is the future of free economic trade and friendship/peace with our European friends. But this is my view I accept that.

The UK will have to come up with a solution/request of how they want to trade/deal with the EU and make their offer .... already the press are blaming the EU ... hold on the UK voted to leave not the other way around.

Anyway I'm off to see The Corrs at Epsom tonight and any info/opinions would be welcome Grin
Report workrider June 30, 2016 11:25 AM BST
The idea was a trading area pure and simple , as the old EEC as it was called then grew ,so did its asperations . It became too big too soon ,it lent us a few pounds to build our infa structure , then took the whole country as payment .
Report Ozymandius June 30, 2016 11:41 AM BST
the consequences of unchecked immigration are amongst others a cheap labour pool,pressyre on housing, schooling and the NHS.

FFS!....what do you think an economy in freefall is going to do to tax contributions to schools and NHS?  What will wage inflation do to the economy?  Are Britains workers sufficiently skilled to demand a wage premium to existing levels and remain compeditve in a globalised econmy.

You are having a laugh, Lapsy.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Report workrider June 30, 2016 11:50 AM BST
Ozy, the more foreign cheap labour thats imported the fewer jobs for the indigenous people ,sadly you don't see people ,only profit ...
He prayeth well who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast ;
He prayeth best who loveth best
All things both great and small :
For the dear God who loveth us,
He made and loveth all.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 30, 2016 11:53 AM BST
The economy of Britain is not in freefall ( you vindictively want this ) indeed the evidence shows its the German and French economies are under pressure.

One thing you Remainers never factored in was there was no guarantee that the EU would not hit stormy weather.

The EU needed Britain far more than Britain needed the EU.
If Britain sent Nigel Farage over to negotiate he'd get them a deal of all deals.

If Enda Kenny uses his head he will abandon that " wee Krankie woman " and act as an intermediary for Britain as again we need their markets far more than they need ours.
Report Ozymandius June 30, 2016 11:57 AM BST
Just wait for the next set of economic numbers.  And the next and the next and the next.  And the comeback to to me and tell me the UK ecnomuy is not in freefall.  It won't just be a short term slide either, in fact if anything it may accelerate in the post short-term.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 30, 2016 12:03 PM BST
Is Rocketfingers posting for you ?
Report Ozymandius June 30, 2016 12:09 PM BST
As expected, no substantive response.

Will check in tomorrow to see where the debate has got to, things to do.
Report pa lapsy June 30, 2016 12:09 PM BST
You have to see how it pans out Oz,where are you getting "freefall" from?,no one will want another recession or whatever.
You are not answering my main point,why was so much unchecked immigration allowed? Is it morally right to "import" cheap labour?
Report wildmanfromborneo June 30, 2016 12:12 PM BST
Ozymandius your spelling went astray and you developed a stammer so I needed to establish was Rocketfingers with you.

Your projecting your hopes as fact,saying the British economy is in freefall is ridiculous.
Report frank60 June 30, 2016 12:44 PM BST
I cant help feeling that Ozy likes to hop the ball ;which is not to say that he has some concerns about the future of his beloved pound. On a more sporting note its sad to see no thread for the the Bridgesone or the Frence open golf, I would have put up myself but im afraid im no Callit, I think most foremites would agree it was one of the best threads on the irish forum.
Report frank60 June 30, 2016 1:35 PM BST
Major Brexit campaigner and the former mayor of London, Boris Johnson, will not run for prime minister, he announced in a shocking decision on Thursday. Following the resignation of Prime Minister David Cameron after the Brexit vote, Johnson was all but assumed to be the successor.
Report wildmanfromborneo June 30, 2016 1:43 PM BST
Not by me.

Not popular in the parliamentary party.
He tested the waters found he had no chance of making the run off so withdrew.

It looks to me like a straight fight between Theresa May and Michael Gove with Theresa May winning easily.
Andrea Leadsome was excellent during the campaign but would be surprised if she declared.

Theresa May would worry me.
She was rather sly in the campaign,went into hiding as a tactic.
She's been Home Secretary for six years and has done nothing to curb immigration.
Report RoyalAcademy June 30, 2016 2:35 PM BST
Nigel Farage appears to have been immediately sidelined and now, apparently, Boris never had a shot at the PM role-interesting times. Politics is indeed ruthless and a blood sport as witnessed by the latest shenanigans on all sides.

You'd would have to think there is going to be a major fudge if not an outright reversal of this British rejection of the EU. The people have had their say, the vote has divided a nation by age, ethnicity, location etc. and now that UKIP have been weakened, Mr "Ping Pong is coming home" out-manoeuvred, the demand for reversal will slowly gather pace as the more prominent "remainers" reassert. It's quite possible both major parties will have EU advocates in charge shortly, or at least not rabid anti-EU.

You'd also want some stomach to tolerate Farage's performance in Brussels this week. Shades of the leprechaun insult, couched in bombast, hostility and schadenfreude. I look at jokers like this and I just see how extremism is caused.
Report workrider June 30, 2016 3:27 PM BST
Then try watching your Country been over run by Immigrants , and NOTHING been done to stop it , now theres a REAL cause for  extremism . Amazing how the left are hurt by WORDS , smirks of mammys boys been told off by their mothers . When a REAL situation arises , not a word from the mammys boys
Report pa lapsy June 30, 2016 3:50 PM BST
Twould be nice to think Dozy is busy setting up a "pledge a bunk-bed" campaign in anticipation for the end times and dark ages he is bangin on about.
Report frank60 June 30, 2016 4:12 PM BST
Theresa May 1.7 here Wildman if you fancy throwing a few quid [sry euro] on her, I say she would be more popular on this side of  water then the last female Conservative Leader.Grin
Report insideinfo June 30, 2016 4:20 PM BST
royal academy you know absolutely the hell can a "demand for reversal" ever be allowed to happen in a democratic society just because a number of people arent willing to accept the decision of the would make an absolute mockery of the idea that we live in a would set a very dangerous precedent and the result of every future vote/referendum held in the uk would not be accepted by the losing side.those failing to accept the decision need to get over themselves and move on as the uk is about to.
Report workrider June 30, 2016 4:38 PM BST
Insideinfo , you are dealing with a guy who thinks democracy is ,when I lose I get ANOTHER chance brigade ,Lisbon treaty springs to mind .Neither him or Ozy ever refare to that little turner .
Report insideinfo June 30, 2016 4:45 PM BST
indeed workrider,muppets of the highest order!
Report workrider June 30, 2016 4:51 PM BST
I bet we were all little racists back then as well.....Laugh
Report frank60 June 30, 2016 5:01 PM BST
ThE E.U.want UK as soon as possible; im sure the UK will  drag there feet i.e. SCOTLAND and the N Ireland but there gone ,They have no friends in Brussels , Personally i think its a sad state of affairs , i wouldn,t want to be the next leader of the UK Gov.
Report frank60 June 30, 2016 5:04 PM BST
SRY, out
Report Ozymandius June 30, 2016 11:06 PM BST
I believe, RA, that what you propose may happen is known as the Breversal.

If I may, once again, quote from tomorrow's Economist (it says it better than I ever could);


Britain’s next leader must explain to 17m voters that the illusion they were promised—all the EU’s benefits with none of its obligations—does not exist. Only when the authors of the Brexit fantasy themselves return from Brussels without this magical deal might Leave voters accept that a compromise is necessary.

Given that nearly half of British voters did not want out, it is likely that a majority might prefer a Norwegian compromise to complete isolation. Whatever deal takes shape in Brussels will be so far from what was promised by the Leave campaign that it will surely have to be put to the British public again, through a general election, another referendum or both. It is even possible that the whole notion of Brexit may stall. A thin majority have said they would prefer life outside the EU to life inside. But it may be that, when faced with the question of whether to endorse a Norway-like deal that entails many of the costs of being in the single market without having a say in the rules, many would rather stay in the EU after all.

Negotiating over Brexit will stretch the tolerance of both British voters and European leaders. Yet the EU specialises in muddled compromises and talking its way around referendums. After months of economic hardship, and a recession-induced fall in immigration, British voters may be ready to think differently about the balance between immigration, the economy and their place in Europe. By far the most likely outcome of this sorry situation remains Brexit. But it would be wrong completely to discount the possibility of an inelegant, humiliating, and yet welcome, Breversal.
Report pa lapsy June 30, 2016 11:12 PM BST
Oh dear,surely this "liberalism" respects and honours a democratic vote?
No realism,no spiritalism only materalism,look at yourself.
Report Ozymandius June 30, 2016 11:18 PM BST
Pragmatism, Pa, pragmatism, who know's what's ahead.

Whats with this sudden outbreak of spritualism btw? Have you had to fire up your Bong to get you through Portugal/Poland?
Report pa lapsy June 30, 2016 11:27 PM BST
Haha twas a tough match alright and a no happy ending story.

Ireland has enough problems,i'd like to see some way a half equal society there at least and even the basic human right of having your own roof over your head is unattainable to too many.

I'll tell you the the story of "the porridge man" from 1930,s Ireland another time, it was tragic but it isn't too far off today in it's own way.
Report workrider July 1, 2016 10:56 AM BST
I would say if they try to reverse Brexit , there would be anarchy on the streets of Britain for years to come ,when their backs are to the wall the is hardly a more formidable opponent than the British bulldog . If the British people are betrayed by their own I dread to think the mayhem that would desend on that country .So before this talk of reversel gathers any momentum , don't say ye haven't been warned ,a divived UK would be no placeto live for anyone , the thought of what those who would be betrayed might do doesn't bare thinking about ...
Report paddletoe July 1, 2016 5:09 PM BST
Wildman I thought your economic plan A for a Britain out of Europe was based on attracting Russian money into the city of London. At the same time you call London a foreign country within Britain. At the same time you talk about the working class person outside of London suffering most but your economic strategy to get Britain back on its feet again involves Russian billioanaires who asset striiped their own country putting their money into the city of London.
Report wildmanfromborneo July 1, 2016 6:12 PM BST
Its a factor.

The main economic plan is get back your fisheries,support the industries you previously weren't allowed to.
Get new trade deals with Australia and New Zealand for a start.
Scrap all those green taxes so beloved of the EU.

The lifting of sanctions against Russia  is not alone the right thing to do,it makes economic sense.
France and Spain are clamouring for dispensation on account of losses in the food sector.
Whilst London is a foreign city it is the economic engine of the UK,it has all sorts of money swirling through it,Russian money would be welcome.

Part of me would like to cripple those banks not alone for their general despicable behaviour but also for supporting the Evil Empire.
Report Ozymandius July 1, 2016 8:00 PM BST
Fisheries Cry and f**k D'Environment!

What about the Turf, Captain Mainwaring, don't forget the Turf.  We can build our whole economic policy around it.

Report wildmanfromborneo July 1, 2016 9:20 PM BST
You misunderstand again,its the British economy we are discussing.

Flick through those back copies of the Economist and you might find an article on Carbon and Green taxes.
If Britain were to abandon them it would be the equivalent of a 10 % rise in everyone's income.

These are strange times, Britain should drop the green taxes and all overseas aid on a temporary basis til they get their finances in order.
Report unitedbiscuits July 1, 2016 10:35 PM BST
Oz - peach Laugh
Haven't read all the posts but imagine Wildman has come out with his gunboat fisheries diplomacy LaughLaughLaugh
Report Racingqueen July 1, 2016 10:44 PM BST
i am a eurosceptic and would have leaned towards leave but there is no doubt the leave side have made an absolute ed balls of the fall out.
Report Rocketfingers July 1, 2016 11:22 PM BST

Wildman with another NHS will gain £50 million a week calculation i see.
Report frank60 July 2, 2016 5:36 PM BST
Its like the next UK P.M will be a women, Andrea Leadsom looks the only danger to Theresa May,    20/1 bar the rest
Report jumper July 3, 2016 8:02 AM BST

There was that story a couple of months back. Not sure.

Could just have been his reputation as not being that hard working, reliable (always late to meetings). His newspaper column last Monday appeared to be rowing back on some Leave pledges which infuriated many and re-enforced the thought that he was not as Euro sceptic as he had made out to be, only siding with Leave to future his own ambitions.
Report wildmanfromborneo July 3, 2016 10:31 AM BST
My post on Boris Johnson was removed.i wrote a similar one on the politics forum its still there.

An earlier post on Russia also removed.

Its normally posts that say anything favourable about Israel that go first although criticism of the EU is coming a close second.
Report workrider July 3, 2016 10:38 AM BST
So many of them walking with E.U. flags on that march yesterday , doubt very much they were British ,who in their right mind would WANT to be governed by a bunch of unelected morons . Selling their souls and Country for 30 pieces of silver imo..
Report Kelly July 3, 2016 11:07 AM BST
Funny how all the men involved deeply in the Euro split are proving to be seriously flawed , leaving us ( in the UK anyway ) with mainly female contenders . Looks like England , Scotland , and NI will have first ladies , and they still cant join Muirfield ( Troon voted yes on women this week ) .  Will women rule the world ? Though hard to see anyone displacing Putin .

If women continue to raise that glass ceiling , will the world be better or worse ?
Report Ozymandius July 3, 2016 11:19 AM BST
Better, though good luck trying to convince the rank and file here of that.  The recent consensus amongst many on here (coincidentally also those in favour of Brexit) was that a Woman's place was in the home.

When Wonks hears these Ladies are ....LESBIANS.....he may well be pining for 'the bunch of elected morons' in Brussels.
Report insideinfo July 3, 2016 11:33 AM BST
at least northern ireland has a very capable woman leader.i pity those in scotland with that jimmy krankee headcase.she wants to divorce scotland from a union with the rest of the uk which it has everything in common with yet she wants to remain in a europe in which the typical scot has much less in common.
Report workrider July 3, 2016 11:59 AM BST
Ozy, Only yesterday I held a beautiful Lesbian in my arms and kissed her , she'd broke up with her girlfriend and needed a shoulder to cry on , now who am I to turn away a beauty in need ....Laugh...
Report frank60 July 3, 2016 12:46 PM BST
I didn,t know you voted for  Catherine Zappone W/R.Grin
Report jumper July 3, 2016 1:20 PM BST
Joking aside, these events really bring home how plainly difficult it is for Ireland to be an independent nation due to it's geographical,  cultural and practical trading links with the UK. I said on another thread that the Irish media were in crisis mode, print media particularly. That same sneering attitude the Islington types in the labour party are supposed to be expressing to the white working class, the Irish media and politicos are now showing to the referendum decision.

If I was cynical, I'd be assuming that many who had their fingers burnt in 2008, were then advised to invest in the UK residential and commercial markets (much safer than at home blah di blah di blah)and are now, to use a racing term, talking through their pockets.
Report workrider July 3, 2016 6:19 PM BST
Laugh Frank .Jumper I see Mr Blair is now trying to get another pop at a 2nd Referendum , just shows how corrupt they are , Democracy and the Left ,well theres a joke if I ever heard one , they'd sell their children if the price was right , what a shower of scum they are!
Report Rocketfingers July 3, 2016 6:22 PM BST
Fgs man vistis the UK once a year for a few days to give some bookmakers some money and think he knows everything what is going on, could not make it up. LaughLaugh
Report frank60 July 3, 2016 7:54 PM BST
If you were a bookmaker what odds would you give a  2nd Referendum within a year of todays date.   4/1 for me
Report insideinfo July 3, 2016 7:57 PM BST
more like 100/1
Report workrider July 3, 2016 9:03 PM BST
I've spent more time getting on the tube than you've been in England you gobshyte ..I think I've spent more time in Sligo than you have in England come to think of it....Laugh
Report Rocketfingers July 3, 2016 9:08 PM BST
You must be the only man ever to go racing in bath and Cartmel and claim to have took the tube there LaughLaughLaugh
Report workrider July 5, 2016 5:40 PM BST
The E.U.looking after business ,never mind the workers , Britain can count itself lucky its getting out now!
ance's government has used a special measure to force approval of a divisive labour bill in its lower house of parliament without a vote - for a second time.
French Prime Minister Manuel Valls invoked a special constitutional article to approve the second reading of the bill. He did the same thing for the bill's first reading.
The decision prompted politicians to march out of the National Assembly in anger.

Mr Valls argued that the bill is needed to boost hiring after decades of high unemployment and said he made the move "in the general interest".
The bill prompted divisions in the governin
Report workrider July 5, 2016 5:41 PM BST
The bill prompted divisions in the governing Socialist party. Opponents say it will threaten hard-won worker protections because it allows employers more freedom to lay off workers and extend working hours.
The bill faces a final reading later this month.
French unions marched through nearby Paris streets in what may be their last show of force against the bill, which has divided the nation and prompted the worst social unrest in years.
Protesters in Paris and other cities want the government to scrap the bill entirely. Months of demonstrations and strikes have damaged tourism, caused fuel shortages and led to frequent clashes between projectile-throwing protesters and police firing tear gas.
Mr Valls used the same constitutional manoeuvre for the first reading of the bill, inflaming critics who accuse the government of trampling democracy.
The bill now goes back to the conservative-led Senate, then returns later this month to the lower house, which has the final say
Report rock piper July 6, 2016 10:46 PM BST
I would go 15/1 on a referendum within 12 months. I see a Norway style deal agreed within 36 months, i.e. pay the same money to access EFTA, the same freedom of movement as now, but no farming subsidies or structural payments or indeed any say into how the EU law to which they must adhere is made, than they had in the EU.

On top of that the period of uncertainty will hurt the British economy and more importantly its reputation as a stable society and its all important soft power. On the plus side the Leave side did get to wave those little flags.

At that point another referendum with three options, this one legally binding.
Remain in the EU.
Do a Norway.
Leave on World Trade Organisation terms.

How will we bet on that, I make WTO the favorite, what with all the dirty Russian money and mass exports of people, sorry I meant little flags to NZ and Oz, to send the UK economy into overdrive.
Report mrcombustible July 30, 2016 12:15 PM BST
Wonderful post, keep up the good work Wildman
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