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^^^^^ Mock RA man up in arms ^^^^^
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In words of one syllable Tolmi , slowly , the reason you try to generate loss on Betfair is primarily to avoid premium charge . Got that ? Lose on Betfair , no premium charge.
If you succeed in doing so , generating ( more) profit elsewhere , you will probably negative any other (consistent) profits you make on other markets . If the profit elsewhere shows up in bookies accounts , they will close your account . But Purple wont . Cash wins are OK , untraceable unless you use "loyalty cards" . Pure logic . Sorry if it goes over certain peoples heads . Every winning cash bet ( balanced out by loss - less obviously- on here )improves the position regarding staving off premium charge . But beware being a serial cash betting loser , that will generate serial profitmaking on Betfair and may get you onto the slippery slope . |
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How's this for pure logic Kelly...
Trade on Betfair and lose 10K. Don't trade and you break even. By not trading you are 10k better off. Got that?? |
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And before you start spouting more drivel you can forget about telling me you lay the losers on purple and the winners on here or some other warped logic.
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Tolmi , if today , and tomorrow and daily for a year I walk into a bookies and lose £1k every day , laying it back on here( winning EVERY day on here ) , how long will it be before I am paying premium charge , starting from a zero winning/ losing position ? You claim to be an expert on premium charge , knowing how it works , so the answer should be easy .
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Its worse you are getting.
I'm not talking about walking into bookies and losing nor am I talking about winning every day on here. I am talking about your assertion that you want to lose on here.I am simply asking you why trade at all if you are trading to lose on here? My 06.35 reply could not be simpler.If you can't follow that I could refer you to your earlier quote about going over peoples heads. Very much unlike yourself who comes across as a self professed expert on everything I have at no stage claimed to be an expert on premium charge.If you would be man enough to withdraw that assertion I would appreciate it. However I do know enough about premium charge to realise that nobody could remotely hazard a guess as to what premium charge one would pay based on your example,It is based on the rate of commission generated to profits made.Person A could make 1000 per day and never pay premium charge and person B could make 1000 per day and be paying it every week.I have no desire to embarrass you further on the topic but will refer you to the age old "when you are in a hole stop digging"advice. |
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Tolmi , there are two reasons for wanting to lose on betfair . Firstly there is no commission if you lose , and secondly there is no possibility of premium charge . Pretty simple , its the cheapest way to travel .
Re premium charge , when it was introduced I counted myself lucky that I had sort of anticipated it , but for a different reason . I had run into negative from large positives , and I intend to stay negative , seems the safest way to operate to me , provided overall you win . Its not rocket science , it is pure logic . You claimed that I knew nothing about how premium charge worked , to me that claim implies that you do . It now appears that you are not an expert on premium charge . I can accept that , with an equivalent discount . I know enough about premium charge to know that given my activity on here over a long time over dozens of markets daily , a winning habit would be punished somewhere along the line . No intention of ever paying premium charge . Re activity on b/f and purple , there is little difference between them odds wise on horse markets , except for a slight time delay normally , I refer to purple as b/f plus 30 seconds usually. Gives you a choice where you want to lay back , skill is in placement relatively . My activity on here is minimal compared with what it used to be , but I still like to win , being a competitive animal . The less commission or premium charge( if any) you pay , the more you win . Purple only charge 2% on winnings too , another factor , provided you play by their rules . Its all about sums and profitability . |
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thats quality trolling
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Terrific stuff from Kelly again and I really enjoy the bit about taking advantage of extra place concessions and 1/4 odds available for additional places with bookmakers.
I know Bet365 did it for most of the week and I think Coral may well have done as part of their Irish plans. In addition Betfred were doing it in some races and Powers dipped into it in some races but not all of them and were 1/5 in many races (although there is little point in watching them closely). Kelly says he took advantage of these and stresses the work that was put in each day from about 9:00 to 3:00 after he left his bored stupid K9 friend back at the house. Now given that nearly all of the firms cited above are online based, how has this been achieved when someone is out until 3:00? Powers have 5 shops in Belfast as far as I would know and their promotional limits are low, with guaranteed prices limited to reduced stakes. With 1 on the Falls Road and 1 on the Andersonstown road, we have to factor in petrol, taxi fares of something like that (although the great man probably has this covered with a free bus pass. So the shops that could be used are limited and some are considerable distances apart, yet he executed this strategy effectively despite not being on a computer from 7 in the morning until just before racing was about to commence. This is leaving aside the fact that he wins consistently with bookmakers to avoid the premium charge, yet still gets extra place concessions and guaranteed prices and also gets these even though he is first out of the traps to get 9/4 about Jers Girl. It really is a hilarious tale. I used to think your spin was confined to a few sports such as Golf and to your high level of IT skills even though you are a man of advancing years, but you are a horse trading expert, an IT guru, an exceptionally fit individual that covers a citywide area faster than anyone. In addition the latest string to your bow seems to be assessing tennis injuries while watching on the TV, which the traders miss. You are a remarkable man. |
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only backs 4 horses a year and cant copy and paste ,what a guy
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On a serious note Kelly do you understand my 6.35 post.I would have thought it fairly simple to follow?
Re premium charge can you explain to me the difference between player A and player B in my example? |
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Player B is fcked Tolmi.
Kelly as it was a thread discussing Punchestown races twas a pity you didn't stick them up beforehand even to say you thought they were overpriced. |
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Temlett , 3 Powers shops are 1 minute apart and we are all allowed friends are we not ? All you need is the money . Used to have 7 shops at least within reach , two on top of the ones mentioned . Plenty of advice from people on here to employ an army , that probably never occurred to naive me . And there are phones in our part of the world . Guess that didn't occur to you . And we all are allowed friends in other parts of the country are we not if we choose .
Did you get any 9/4 Jers Girl ? I did not take advantage of extra place concessions , another invention , but whats new . But 1/4 a place all races is a good concession where there are 8 runners or more . Read the posts , dont just invent things . |
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Pa , Jers Girl was 7/4 all day up to approx 1.00clock . Widely available . Then 9/4 for 15 minutes in Powers when it was 7/4 on here . Last thing on my mind would be wasting time on here posting when there was work to be done . They pushed out 4 horses each day between 1 and 2 , 15 minutes on each . Billy's have been doing that for a long time . I backed one with them at 6/1 , started 7/2 I think , Music something , ton per customer ( per shop that is if you know topography) . It lost . But you have to be quick , time waits for no man . There aren't any queues though , that finished years and years ago .
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You "wasted" enough time telling us about it after the race though Kelly,whether you were using it as an exxample or not.
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Pa , there have been hundreds of "Jers Girl's " over the years . The concept of posting tips or fancies on here I gave up many moons ago , you got no thanks for it . Anyway betting for me was always in the moment , I spent a lot of time on course when the market moves came suddenly and often at the death . Decision time . Sharpens the senses .
I posted re 3 of JP's horses , specifically because everyone on here was complaining about his colours ( and largely because they didn't win --MTOY a prime example . Probably 90% of his horses lost at Punchestown , guess that tots up to a lot of people who backed losers in his colours. I only backed to trade , but beating the odds represents a "winner" . I probably missed "winners " in that respect in his colours , Marlfield started pretty short given morning price , but only lasted one jump . Thats racing . |
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not often id agree with lapsy but in this case he has kelly sussed, so the 3 winners are now just winning trades again you couldnt make it up
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Your perogative whether you put up an opinion or not Kelly,i see both sides of the coin in that regard. I sincerely believe the few that do on here aren't looking for "thanks", some talk about the racing,others have a strong opinion,no harm whatsoever,as it is yourself that presses the button.
You did post re 3 of JP's horses but the races were over and while good for you i'm not sure why you are telling us. Think it is Marlbrook you mean. You must have had a fair big balance in the daq at the time to lay all that back. |
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Most of my laying activity pa is on here , some days it works OK over there. . It is useful , needed it last Saturday ( site down ) . Has its uses , but only for horses and golf for me ( soccer occasionally) . Useless for the cricket , which is normally in running .
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Just as well you had the account Kelly as you said yourself you laid it off there, you needed slightly more than 3 times what you staked on Jers Girl in it.
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Temlett ,I never mentioned 200 , And the 1/4 odds was not in Powers . Attempt to invent again . If you followed posts you would have known that I did not have a bet at Cheltenham in a Powers shop , no value during that meeting , and up here their offices were relatively sparsely populated during Cheltenham . There's another story re that , but cant post it on here , might get someone into trouble .
They loosened the reins a bit at Punchestown I suspect , maybe the bean counters did their sums and wanted turnover . |
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Of course you never mentioned 200 - I am saying that is likely to have been very much the max bet allowed, especially if you are known not to be a punter or a judge but simply a concession punter that just pops in at this 1:00 - 1:15 time slot and lays back later. The max may well have been 100 * 5 shops covered, less expenses and payments to your men on the street, unless they are just good natured souls that have little else to be doing.
Anyway the rest of the forum can continue with fairytale for the remainder of the evening if they wish. |
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The concessions apply to 25 euro only where I am,not alone that but if you have a hundred on you don't even get the concession to that part of your wager.
It annoys me when I hear about them betting double result and money back when it only applies to small wagers. Bookies are granted a licence by the government part of the conditions of that licence should be an obligation to accept wagers not just fleece problem gamblers. |
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Hear , hear , wildman . Aussies have some decent rules in some states re bookies . Mind you the bookies there dont have a lot to compete with except the tab which takes a fair whack of the punters money each race .
PP had concessions re second to SP fav , max £25 per customer , free bet refund ( win part) ,. How they define a customer is open to question . On their 15 minute specials it was £100 per customer per horse . Decent offers both . No 1/4 odds all races though . There are more bookies than PP though . |
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Tolmi , the friend I trust absolutely punted daily for me in/ around 3 different bookies shops , and sometimes used his friends for top ups , cash in the hand , docket back to money man . No 10k exposures . Nobody ever transgressed . I was always open with anyone who enquired what the "movers" were which I was backing , everybody knew , no skin of my nose as long as I was "on" , helps when you want a "favour" . I was just acting as a conduit for information as to what was actually happening on the markets , most punters did not have access or time , and I was always up to date . After some local bookies barred me everybody wanted a word . My mate is still only a phone call away thankfully , but opportunities are rare these days , and generally only last fleetingly .
Nearly every bookies I go into in this part of the world I reckon I know a substantial number of the punters in there ( diminishing though) and often the staff , I have been frequenting those haunts for half a century . They know the score and will manage a message if approached . Cant be bothered generally though , only when the ball hops the right way do you get a proper hold of it . There is no general plan though , once upon a time there was , daily. Just occasionally it reverts to days of yore , few and far between though nowadays . Blame the internet , ATR , RUK , Sky , etc , armchair punters are the dart nowadays . |
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Tolmi 03 May 16 16:10
On a serious note Kelly do you understand my 6.35 post.I would have thought it fairly simple to follow? Re premium charge can you explain to me the difference between player A and player B in my example? |
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((( PUNCHESTOWN 2017 )))..... Starts 3.40pm on TUESDAY 25th
((((( PUNCHESTOWN 2017 ))))) (((((((( PUNCHESTOWN 2017 )))))))) (((((((((( PUNCHESTOWN 2017 ))))))))) SpoilSports Champion Steeplechase (Grade 1) of €250,000.00 Reminder... "Vatour" beaten last year...so what you say Un De Sceaux Winner 11/10 Disko 18:40 Winner 11/10 Ronnie O'Sullivan Snooker Championship - Winner 9/4 Spoils 15.36 accum |
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6.05 Goffs Land Rover Bumper
What a pity last years winner Coeur De Lion passed away. |
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Still to come Wed & Thursday...
Presenting Percy in Wednesday's three mile novice hurdle Sizing John in the Gold Cup Great Field in the Ryanair Novice Chase |
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Harrington in superb form at the moment.
Really looking forward to watching Great Field. |
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ROCONGA has been thoroughly progressive in his career thus far and might be able to continue on his winning ways here. He won his last hurdle race last August, returned with a cracking flat handicap win at Cork latest and will like today’s surface.
Nearly time to get to the carpark for the inside info on this JP / O'Grady combo connection me tinks !  |
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"To come out here (in Punchestown) and win is different league. Fox Norton is a beautiful horse - I think he'll stay any trip myself." - Trainer Colin Tizzard.....and with Thistlecrack, Cue Card, Native River, Finian's Oscar, Fox Norton – safe to say he is probably looking forward to next season.
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IRISH Trainer Championship -
GORDON €4,063,145 WILLIE €3,782,625 5 Days left of the National Hunt season the Trainer Championship is going down to the wire. €2,287,500 Prize Money Remaining. 5 Days and 30 Races to end of Season ! |
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(((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 2. )))))).......Wednesday 26th - FIRST at 3.40pm again
(((((((((((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 2. ))))))))) ((((((((((((((((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 2. )))))))))))) 3.40 Dawerann 20/1 for Gordon tia but it could be a Close Shave for Jessie. 4.20 Burgas 14/1 Meade Cooper Gigginstown. 4.55 PRESENTING PERCY 11/4 Davy again. 5.30 GOLD CUP evens for Sizing John. 6.05 FAYONAGH 2/1 again JJ. 6.40 Mr Diablo 12/1 from 7/2 Polidam. 7.15 Mystic Theatre 5's for WPM & PWM. BEST OF LUCK viewers for the rest of the week. |
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A close shave alright for Jessie, won by a short-head
MAJIC |
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*Magic
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Burgas in to 10's
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(((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 3. ))))))..... THURSDAY 27th
(((((((((((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 3. ))))))))) ((((((((((((((((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 3. )))))))))))) (((((((((((((((((((((((((( PUNCHESTOWN DAY 3. )))))))))))))))))))) GREAT START Mrs H. Dan Chipowski • May 2, 2016 12:12 PM BST Don't understand why people bother with Kelly. Most had him pegged ages ago on here. Still spouting his same drivel. |
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Trainer Championship - GE €4,231,780 vs WPM €4,079,200 - 3 Days left, 16 Races & just over 1M Prize Money Remaining.
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It's hotting up alright.
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