Irish Sports
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
14 Sep 15
00:04
Joined:
Date Joined:
30 Nov 10
Leopardstown.
I thought Golden Horn was lucky to hold it,all he was short of doing was putting on his trafficator turning at right angles and knocking out his challenger.
The questioning should have gone like this.
Did interference take place. Yes
Did it affect the result. Again Yes.
So place him behind the horse he hampered,place him third.
Much has been made of the fact Free Eagle finished third rather than second,shouldn't make any difference.
Doncaster
Seemed to me six of one half a dozen of the other.
Much has been made of Colm ODonoghues eloquence,that shouldn't matter its not a debating chamber.
What is never mentioned is the double jeapordy suffered by Andrea Atzeni,he loses the race,the prestige of winning a Classic plus the heavy financial loss.
On top of all this woe he is then suspended for three days,how can that be right.
I thought Golden Horn was lucky to hold it,all he was short of doing was putting on his trafficator turning at right angles and knocking out his challenger.
The questioning should have gone like this.
Did interference take place. Yes
Did it affect the result. Again Yes.
So place him behind the horse he hampered,place him third.
Much has been made of the fact Free Eagle finished third rather than second,shouldn't make any difference.
Doncaster
Seemed to me six of one half a dozen of the other.
Much has been made of Colm ODonoghues eloquence,that shouldn't matter its not a debating chamber.
What is never mentioned is the double jeapordy suffered by Andrea Atzeni,he loses the race,the prestige of winning a Classic plus the heavy financial loss.
On top of all this woe he is then suspended for three days,how can that be right.
Show More
Totally agree but those rules are not in place in this country, ask any self respecting owner for a copy of the rule book, pm your name and address and i'll see what i can find under the well worn bed 
I was almost sure that this heading couldn't lead to another immigration thread, surely a case for there being one mega immigration thread at this stage ass there is rarely anything new being discussed on them.
Colm had to initially correct the stewards from what point of the race they should be looking at so I do think jockeys have a part to play but obviously the stewards viewpoint is the only impartial viewpoint.
The first infringement was much more than a bump or a nudge, COD was riding cutely and holding Atzeni in the pocket (nothing wrong with that it's good race riding) but Atzeni decided to just barge his way out of trouble.
The incident in the final furlong wasn't as severe and there was bumping from both sides.
Was Bondi Beach closing at the line?
Not particularly in my opinion but how can you quantify the momentum lost in the initial incident?
Atzeni's barging out two furlongs out was the equivalent of a professional foul, blatant disregard for the rules as thought he would pick up just a ban which is much too lenient a punishment for the crime committed.
There is a massive grey area in the interpretation of the rules and how some offences are graded. It was probably a harsh decision in some ways giving the lack of recent precedent. There isn't any consistency in the decisions in the same jurisdiction let alone internationally and I believe that all the racing jurisdictions annually discuss the harmonisation of international racing rules at a junket in Paris on Arc weekend without anything ever coming from it.
He deserved to get more than three days and don't think many would have any sympathy for an extremely well paid flat jockey such as Atzeni.
Colm had to initially correct the stewards from what point of the race they should be looking at so I do think jockeys have a part to play but obviously the stewards viewpoint is the only impartial viewpoint.
The first infringement was much more than a bump or a nudge, COD was riding cutely and holding Atzeni in the pocket (nothing wrong with that it's good race riding) but Atzeni decided to just barge his way out of trouble.
The incident in the final furlong wasn't as severe and there was bumping from both sides.
Was Bondi Beach closing at the line?
Not particularly in my opinion but how can you quantify the momentum lost in the initial incident?
Atzeni's barging out two furlongs out was the equivalent of a professional foul, blatant disregard for the rules as thought he would pick up just a ban which is much too lenient a punishment for the crime committed.
There is a massive grey area in the interpretation of the rules and how some offences are graded. It was probably a harsh decision in some ways giving the lack of recent precedent. There isn't any consistency in the decisions in the same jurisdiction let alone internationally and I believe that all the racing jurisdictions annually discuss the harmonisation of international racing rules at a junket in Paris on Arc weekend without anything ever coming from it.
He deserved to get more than three days and don't think many would have any sympathy for an extremely well paid flat jockey such as Atzeni.
Doncaster
Just look at his ride on Battersea the day before. He was in the exact same position, had to take a pull and come around Curbyourenthuiasm. Had no chance. It would have been the same here if he played by the rules. Instead CO'D kept him boxed in and AA pretended the was a gap there and tried to barge his way out. He knew it was his only way to win but it's against the rules.
He'd 1m3f to get out, brutal ride, learned nothing from the day before. Ban deserved, even though I doubt it will bother him too much.
He'd some book of rides there Friday and Saturday, plenty of better jockeys wouldn't mind being in his position.
Just look at his ride on Battersea the day before. He was in the exact same position, had to take a pull and come around Curbyourenthuiasm. Had no chance. It would have been the same here if he played by the rules. Instead CO'D kept him boxed in and AA pretended the was a gap there and tried to barge his way out. He knew it was his only way to win but it's against the rules.
He'd 1m3f to get out, brutal ride, learned nothing from the day before. Ban deserved, even though I doubt it will bother him too much.
He'd some book of rides there Friday and Saturday, plenty of better jockeys wouldn't mind being in his position.
Ah come on DJ nothing new on the immigration issue,I've used a different angle each day.
I'm putting them all together in a compilation booklet,hope to sell them outside Thurles races this winter.
When they passed the post in theChampion I thought initially has to go,watched the betting and couldn't believe the price,I was already on Found so reluctantly left it alone.
The ðeision was reached incredibly quickly,maybe they didnt want to be rude,maybe they didnt want to reward Aidan OBrien for not running Gleneagles.
Not running Gleneagles on that ground was wrong,galloping him after racing was an insult and a joke.
I'm putting them all together in a compilation booklet,hope to sell them outside Thurles races this winter.
When they passed the post in theChampion I thought initially has to go,watched the betting and couldn't believe the price,I was already on Found so reluctantly left it alone.
The ðeision was reached incredibly quickly,maybe they didnt want to be rude,maybe they didnt want to reward Aidan OBrien for not running Gleneagles.
Not running Gleneagles on that ground was wrong,galloping him after racing was an insult and a joke.
You could argue either way in both cases, personally i thought the stewards got both right, but thats neither here nor there.
The one thing i would say is that i would write off for all time anyone who thought that free eagle had even the slightest chance when he was interfered with. That Justin O Hanlon of the racing post said it was 50/50 at the time, well the truth is it was anything but. Anyone who gets a basic thing like that so spectacularly wrong is dumbfounding, and his opinion to me would never ever be considered on any racing matter again.
The one thing i would say is that i would write off for all time anyone who thought that free eagle had even the slightest chance when he was interfered with. That Justin O Hanlon of the racing post said it was 50/50 at the time, well the truth is it was anything but. Anyone who gets a basic thing like that so spectacularly wrong is dumbfounding, and his opinion to me would never ever be considered on any racing matter again.
Why do the stewards need the jocks in? Just make a call on what you see.
mincer , dont think it was 50/50 , but it was not 0/100 either . Golden Horn was outbattled at York , by a horse not as good as Free Eagle I suspect , very few things are as black and white ( I presumably am still allowed to say that these days ). When horses are nostril to nostril few can predict the outcome every time . I had no bet on the race other than Free Eagle for a place on here so any deliberations or opinions of mine are not pocket talking .
Pat Smullen interview was significant to me , more from what he did not say as against what he did say . He was the picture of perfect gentleman re happenings/outcome , but I detected a steeliness that might resurface the next time . Golden Horn all but knocked Free Eagle down , and escaped with the money and no penalty . Pretty lucky that whatever way you cut it .
On a side issue , Gleneagles would have had no problem with the ground evidenced by his gallop after racing , just wonder why the moth ball approach ?
Pat Smullen interview was significant to me , more from what he did not say as against what he did say . He was the picture of perfect gentleman re happenings/outcome , but I detected a steeliness that might resurface the next time . Golden Horn all but knocked Free Eagle down , and escaped with the money and no penalty . Pretty lucky that whatever way you cut it .
On a side issue , Gleneagles would have had no problem with the ground evidenced by his gallop after racing , just wonder why the moth ball approach ?
Kelly , it was 100 % certain golden horn would have won. He stays further, had the running rail and was at least a length ahead and was in overdrive when the incident happened. He was being eased down going over the line, and its incomprehensible that he wouldnt have obliged.
Nobody is saying Free Eagle wasnt hampered, he clearly was but he had no chance whatsoever when he was hampered.
Nobody is saying Free Eagle wasnt hampered, he clearly was but he had no chance whatsoever when he was hampered.
Mincer if Golden Horn was a length ahead he wouldn't have cannoned into Free Eagle.
My own take on it was that Free Eagle traveled well but didn't pick up when asked, however he was getting into gear and looked like he was coming back at Golden Horn at the time of the incident. Think it would have been close.
Listening to the morons like Weaver on ATR after saying he lost no Momentum and was only checked for a stride blah blah....
My own take on it was that Free Eagle traveled well but didn't pick up when asked, however he was getting into gear and looked like he was coming back at Golden Horn at the time of the incident. Think it would have been close.
Listening to the morons like Weaver on ATR after saying he lost no Momentum and was only checked for a stride blah blah....
I don't know what the betting was before the incident happened,it looked all over to me but the fact is the incident did happen,he turned almost a right angle and whacked into Free Eagle,if Free Eagle wasn't there where would he have ended up.
Pat Smullen was magnanimous in the stewards room the fact he couldn't get the race might have had something to do with that.
Jockeys saying they would have won is just their opinion and its generally a biased opinion,the Stewards are there to give theirs.
In the Seskinane case in Sligo they got a garbled admission out of the winning rider,they pounced on this and said once he admitted it there was no other decision could be reached,this was nonsense in my opinion they should have judged the case on its merits.
It should never be down to most eloquent.
Pat Smullen was magnanimous in the stewards room the fact he couldn't get the race might have had something to do with that.
Jockeys saying they would have won is just their opinion and its generally a biased opinion,the Stewards are there to give theirs.
In the Seskinane case in Sligo they got a garbled admission out of the winning rider,they pounced on this and said once he admitted it there was no other decision could be reached,this was nonsense in my opinion they should have judged the case on its merits.
It should never be down to most eloquent.
Bigwillystyle Golden Horn lost ground by turning right.
Yes he lost ground but he didnt lose momentum like Free Eagle did.
There was a bully boy steward in Sligo that intimidated young Fox into admitting dangerous riding before his uncle/trainer could get to the enquiry. I believe this is a requirement for a claimer? Fox fella wouldnt say boo to a goose.
That was the single worst stewarding decision i have ever seen. The second worst was the Whisky Galore decision. A horse who would never go by and would never have won a race only for the stewards. A pure pig. No coincidence that it was awarded to a local owner!!!
I'd have to agree with DJ....nothing accidental about the interference between Bondi Beach and the
filly so the only question that needed to be answered was that did the interference cost Colm's horse the distance he was beaten.
filly so the only question that needed to be answered was that did the interference cost Colm's horse the distance he was beaten.
Bigwillystyle, Dettori's horse certainly had to forfeit ground by veering right and when he did his hindquarters collided with Free Eagles head.
Free Eagle had no momentum to lose, he had played his cards and was starting to check out.
Free Eagle had no momentum to lose, he had played his cards and was starting to check out.
I was standing at the rail a couple of yards from Golden horns Connections and i felt like shouting over to them that he was 1.27 on betfair mobile to keep the race, but they looked mighty relieved when Winner all right;Winner all right was announced, My own take on it was Free Eagle lost 2nd place because of the infringement; but i thought Free Eagle should have got the race when i first saw it,justice was done in the end [if the rules are correct] Relpays are wonderful things.
Both should have been reversed just so id have got my double up
In all seriousness though,Think they got both right,Ye cannot underestimate momentum in a race when your suddenly blocked and barged it costs a horse lengths as it has to get going all over again when taking out of its stride.
In all seriousness though,Think they got both right,Ye cannot underestimate momentum in a race when your suddenly blocked and barged it costs a horse lengths as it has to get going all over again when taking out of its stride.
The French rule , while not perfect , might have been interesting in this instance .
I still think the English stewards got it wrong re giving Bondi Beach the race , wonder will the loser appeal ?
Neither result affected my balance . Was tempted to lay Bondi though in the stewards .
I still think the English stewards got it wrong re giving Bondi Beach the race , wonder will the loser appeal ?
Neither result affected my balance . Was tempted to lay Bondi though in the stewards .
Simple Verse reinstated, Wheres the CCCC when you need them?
MAGNANIMOUS Aidan O'Brien on Wednesday accepted the loss of a Classic at the BHA's headquarters in London as Bondi Beach was demoted back to second after an appeal into the Ladbrokes St Leger resulted in Simple Verse being awarded the race.
While connections of Simple Verse were elated at the panel's verdict to revert to the original result in what was a lengthy and highly-charged appeal, O'Brien took defeat stoically despite Bondi Beach initially being handed victory by the Doncaster stewards.
He said: "Some you win some you lose and that's racing. I think it's great for the connections of the mare. Colm [O'Donoghue] did his best to give the horse a perfect brilliant ride and conducted himself like the professional jockey he is. He has lost a Classic but has won others and will get more."
O'Donoghue was widely praised for his presentation of the controversial finish which was screened live on Channel 4, and he again argued his case fluently, getting into several heated exchanges with Graeme McPherson QC, who led the Simple Verse legal team.
But he, like O'Brien, did not dwell on the result when it was announced the panel had found in favour of Simple Verse and their connections. He said: "I felt on the day the stewards made the right decision. The appeal is over. They have changed the decision again and that's racing."
While connections of Simple Verse were elated at the panel's verdict to revert to the original result in what was a lengthy and highly-charged appeal, O'Brien took defeat stoically despite Bondi Beach initially being handed victory by the Doncaster stewards.
He said: "Some you win some you lose and that's racing. I think it's great for the connections of the mare. Colm [O'Donoghue] did his best to give the horse a perfect brilliant ride and conducted himself like the professional jockey he is. He has lost a Classic but has won others and will get more."
O'Donoghue was widely praised for his presentation of the controversial finish which was screened live on Channel 4, and he again argued his case fluently, getting into several heated exchanges with Graeme McPherson QC, who led the Simple Verse legal team.
But he, like O'Brien, did not dwell on the result when it was announced the panel had found in favour of Simple Verse and their connections. He said: "I felt on the day the stewards made the right decision. The appeal is over. They have changed the decision again and that's racing."
terrible decision yet again..why do we even bother following racing..was lafarge and cashman on the panel I wonder!?
Would have said it was ultimately the correct decision myself.
The fairest set of rules in my book would be that the best horse should get the race provided the rider didn’t engage in reckless riding. Much of the commentary focussed on Atzeni pushing out Bondi 2f out. What was largely been ignored (and I didn’t see it either on first viewing) was that Bondi had bumped her onto the rail first and she returned the favour. This is a natural reaction from horses. Bondi the windy yoke came out and at the same time Storm The Sea fell inside to the rail with Atzeni coming past. It looked like she caused more damage than was the case if you follow her racing line.
What I cannot figure out is how Atzeni didn’t manage to convince the stewards of the day that there wasn’t at least a reasonable chance the filly was the deserving winner.
The fairest set of rules in my book would be that the best horse should get the race provided the rider didn’t engage in reckless riding. Much of the commentary focussed on Atzeni pushing out Bondi 2f out. What was largely been ignored (and I didn’t see it either on first viewing) was that Bondi had bumped her onto the rail first and she returned the favour. This is a natural reaction from horses. Bondi the windy yoke came out and at the same time Storm The Sea fell inside to the rail with Atzeni coming past. It looked like she caused more damage than was the case if you follow her racing line.
What I cannot figure out is how Atzeni didn’t manage to convince the stewards of the day that there wasn’t at least a reasonable chance the filly was the deserving winner.
The Body Language of the 2 jockeys in the stewards room is worth looking at TTK, ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diny3MgdMHY
Basically the message this sends out is it's a free for all for Jockeys riding,Bump and barge other horses to your hearts content without fear of been reprimanded,Atzeni was banned for the maneuver was he not?Makes sense!
Didn’t Colm get days for the whip too? Not as bad as dangerous riding but it’s part of the win at all costs culture that needs to be tackled.
neill d 23 Sep 15 20:39 Joined: 19 Aug 09 | Topic/replies: 8,125 | Blogger: neill d's blog
English isn't his first language!
Rate reply:
| report block user
R U SURE IT'S COLM'S
Joined: 26 Jul 12 | Topic/replies: 4,755 | Blogger: CheltenhamRoar's blog
Basically the message this sends out is it's a free for all for Jockeys riding,Bump and barge other horses to your hearts content without fear of been reprimanded,Atzeni was banned for the maneuver was he not?Makes sense!DONT THEY DO THIS ALREADY
I HAVE BET INTERFERED HORSES WHICH WOULD OF BEEN 2ND BUT CAME 3RD BECAUSE OF IT I BELIEVE THIS TO BE WRONG IN THE RULE SENSE "THE BEST HORSE WON"
English isn't his first language!
Rate reply:
| report block user
R U SURE IT'S COLM'S
Joined: 26 Jul 12 | Topic/replies: 4,755 | Blogger: CheltenhamRoar's blogBasically the message this sends out is it's a free for all for Jockeys riding,Bump and barge other horses to your hearts content without fear of been reprimanded,Atzeni was banned for the maneuver was he not?Makes sense!DONT THEY DO THIS ALREADY
I HAVE BET INTERFERED HORSES WHICH WOULD OF BEEN 2ND BUT CAME 3RD BECAUSE OF IT I BELIEVE THIS TO BE WRONG IN THE RULE SENSE "THE BEST HORSE WON"
Stewards enquiries should be just that , an enquiry by the stewards who have ( supposedly) eyes and reruns from various angles . Jockeys having to go in and fabricate cases for events we have all seen is unworthy of the sport . Anyone ever admit their mistakes if it is going to cost them ? Nobility died a death many moons ago .
Glad justice was done ultimately in Simple Verses case , just feel for those who backed her not FPP . They were truly robbed .
Glad justice was done ultimately in Simple Verses case , just feel for those who backed her not FPP . They were truly robbed .
I think its fairly safe to assume that free eagle was a million to one in Leopardstown when the interference took place, the 50/50 of O Hanlon seems rather ridiculous now.
It was ridiculous then too.
The stewards in Tipperary was straight forward but pretty painful for the bookmakers,paying out on favourite and second favourite must be costly.
The stewards in Tipperary was straight forward but pretty painful for the bookmakers,paying out on favourite and second favourite must be costly.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539