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Successful Gamblers Barred From Betting
Successful Gamblers Barred From Betting
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Replies: 113
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Totally agree Kelly their like insurance companies, great at taking your money but hate paying out. As for the machines I would never play them. The only time I did was a few years ago, Ladcrooks used to give you a free £10 bet if you had a tenner on a football bet, would be a final. I used to pick a bet that I could lay off. I would go around all the shops in my area and have a bet. With my free go I would play roulette backing black and red. Unless I was very unlucky hitting the green 0 I would win a fiver. After a while they got wise, I told them if they wanted to act like drug dealers outside a school they had to expect to be burnt. Sadly I'm not that eloquent therefore can not put into writing how much I hate them..........best I can do is "Cu nts the lot of them"
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PBK there are a few still who are gentlemen and sportsmen, but they are completely and utterly swamped by the bean counters .
Knew the manager of a chain of bookies way back , he often admitted to me he knew nothing about betting --and he proved it occasionally when he took up an occasional stance at a certain sporting event . But they made money with relative ease . |
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Agree mate as a friend of mine says "Bookies used to be honourable rogues, now there just rogues" my saying "You used to be Turf accountants, now your just accountants"
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In any other walk of life Kelly you couldn't expect to have it all go your way. If M&S bought 100 meat pies they might sell 85 at full price the rest they may have to reduce with three or four ending up in the bin.
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Only comment I would make about M&S is that invariably I feel I have got value and more especially quality when I enter their establishments . Apart from one spectacular betting shop in down town Belfast , which is akin to a hotel reception area , cant say I have that feeling when I enter ( and leave quickly) most betting shops these days .
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There's a hills in London near the American Embassy. Leather tub chairs, staff making you cappuccino's with biscuits, even Kit Kat's. The toilets are all marble and there is flannels to dry your hands, it's just like a pucker hotel. It's their flagship shop, hit em for six k on a Tuesday was PTL on the Thursday when I returned
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Sorry Kelly maybe Lidl would of been better for the meat pie example
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Reb
Thanks for putting up the article. it was a good read. I found looking at my PP and Betfair downloads my turnover appeared large. Much of that on Betfair was laying winning bets and cashing out positions. And placing one bet on Betfair could be a dozen tiny bets. Another thing the article suggest to me is I bet in quite a few markets. It must be obvious I have no inside info. What I like is long time-frame events and big odds. My betting was by telephone with PP about 10+ years ago. Then I switched to Betfair. Playing poker on PokerStars with Eircom dial-up was about 250 a month, so I got wireless broadband, got rid of the phone, and stopped betting with PP. I'll go the data protection request route. PP didn't venture suggestions on my visit what I should do to get PP info. Strangely while I was reading the report on the previous page I got a message from my Firewall software "Network Threat Blocked. UDP Port Scanning Attack. Port scanning has a low direct impact, but is often used as a first step before real network attacks." One think that I can not understand. Why do bookmakers restrict winning punters? I can understand restricting a bet to a few hundred, not to £10. They have the opportunity to change prices to balance their book. |
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Below is the final article from The Times, last week, on the reality of modern-day bookmaking practices and their failure to give customers real transparency on their online account.
Paddy Power Urged To Disclose Betting Data Aaron Rogan The Times online (Ireland) 8/9/2015 Ireland’s largest bookmaker still does not allow its punters to see detailed information about their betting history, which experts say could help prevent problem gambling. Paddy Power, which made pre-tax profits of €167 million last year, said in March that it would consider allowing its online customers to see their total amount staked, total winnings and total number of bets. However, this week Paddy Power said it was still “currently reviewing our processes in this area to give customers greater transparency over their play”. Online gamblers, at present, can see their betting history for the past two years and the total staked amount is not included. However, the bookmaker keeps internal “customer attribute notes” which include the full amount a punter has staked since they opened an account and their balance details. Copies of the records for two customers were obtained by The Times using data protection law, which obliges companies to reveal data they hold on individuals. Colin O’Gara, a consultant psychiatrist and head of addiction services at St John of God hospital in Dublin, called on the company to include the extra information in the history section of online accounts. “Gamblers have a distorted view of how much they have bet and how much they have lost or won over time, so any information that helps address that is to be welcomed given gambling is an inherently addictive activity that can become a serious problem for certain people,” he said. In March, Paddy Power said it would provide detailed information to gamblers if they requested it, but the company’s marketing spokesman said it would “seem fair” to allow them to see the data without having to ask. “It’s not available in the ‘my account’ section of the website, and, to be fair, it is something that maybe we will include as part of the process of improving and adding functions to it. It’s not a secret, it’s their information and there is no reason why it should not be in there,” the spokesman added. The bookmaker has 2.4 million online customers, including more than 400,000 in Ireland. Paddy Power said that it promotes responsible gambling. “Betting should be treated as just another form of entertainment in a balanced lifestyle. In order to help our customers bet sensibly we have put in place a number of measures such as deposit limits and the facility for self-exclusion,” a spokesman said. “We also have a dedicated team of professionals who review the latest practices in this area and ensure we are implementing measures to protect our customers.” |
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Last sentence interesting . Does that include some punter with a spectacular losing account wagering 40k plus on some womens football match most of us wouldn't bet 10p on ?
Never knew any bookie who did not love a losing punter . One close friend of mine , who WAS a losing punter , on a daily basis , used to be given VIP treatment by his local bookie . Guy eventually emigrated to South Africa where the only place you could bet then was on the track . His way of escape , luckily it worked . |
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A problem gambler to any bookie is one who no longer has any money, the problem being theres nothing more to be got. At that point they wouldnt care if he threw himself off the Eiffel tower.
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I called to Paddy Power head office Clonskeagh, Dublin, this morning and handed in a letter asking for info about my account as allowed by the Data Protection Acts.
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Fair play, if only Borneo could find something constructive like this to do in his retirement.
Kincsem, I may owe you an apology in indirectly questioning your gambling abilities, I think I have you confused with Kriskin. (Cue a comment from Wonks about me having a senior moment followed by obligatory innane smiley) |
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Ozy
I don't remember you questioning my gambling abilities. If we had an internet punch-up I've forgotten about it.  I overhead PP reception staff talking about a previous visitor who is a regular PP visitor and has a reputation for causing trouble in PP shops. It must be one of the Betfair forum mob.  No response to my letter this morning from PP. Last Friday their e-mail was issued 45 minutes after I left. It was mostly a link to their Terms & Conditions. |
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I will call in to their offices this morning with a cheque of €6.35 requested in an e-mail to process my request
They sent me a summary of my account from 2003 to 2015. I checked it, disagree with the figures, and sent them an e-mail asking them to agree with my numbers and asked for another summary. Although betting with them from the mid to late 1990s I didn't get anything for that period. No "customer attribute" comment received yet, or other info. |
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kincsem, I found the figures that they sent me to be pretty much equivalent to my own records. I'd say if the difference between your figures and their figures are material then you could request that they send you a breakdown of the individual bets over the 12 year period.
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I made my third visit to Paddy Power HQ in Clonskeagh, Dublin 4 this morning. They e-mailed that they wanted a cheque of €6.35 and ID (passport, driving licence).
I had received by e-mail a list of my deposits and withdrawals from 2003 to 2015 totals each year. It showed I was losing. When I checked it against the 2003 to 2007 PP download I had from a few years back I noticed they had left out three cheques I received in June, July, August 2003. Those three cheques would turn the loss into a profit twice the loss they showed. This morning I was only dropping in a letter questioning their figures, the €6.36 cheque, and offered my passport at reception. The receptionist said I needed customer support. Two people met me in reception. They will let me know if my figures are correct or if PP is correct (if I was a betting man I would put €1k on me at evens). Why did you want your deposits/withdrawals? Because I would like to know if I am profitable, as imo these should be available to PP customers on their account. So far I have met four Paddy Power people, although I was happy to just drop letters in reception and leave. I got an incorrect deposits/withdrawals statement (Profit and Loss) for 2003 to 2015 imo. Nothing from before 2003 but I'm not too pushed if it is not easily available. I have not got customer notes. |
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Another review by me shows credit transfers to my bank account not shown in the PP summary of withdrawals.
(traced from the PP download to my bank statements) Their figure shows I lose 27% of deposits; my figure shows I make a profit of 84%. I sent another e-mail. |
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Honestly, why not regulate the punters.....
They mostly all play into their hands.....the bookmakers... |
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My request for info from Paddy Power under the Data Protection Acts was on 17/09/15.
Nothing received yet. The law allows 40 days for a response, or 27/10/15. |
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I deposited €100 into my PP account and tried to bet €100 on the Prix De L'Arc De Triomphe, and was restricted to €45.
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ya must be a big loser if they allowed you 45e..
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Eagle Top €45 at 50/1 for the Arc.
The weight of my money has smashed it into 40s. |
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Paddy Power sent me two e-mails in response to my Data Protection request timed 17:09 Wed 07/10/2015.
I found them in my e-mail this evening (I was out on Thursday). Most of my betting with Paddy Power was from 2003 to 2006. Since then Betfair. The e-mails had five file attachments: Unfortunately, three files had an .aax extension and it took me a long time to find the program on the web to open these. The other two files were .xlsx and .docx extensions and as I use Microsoft 2003 (.xls .doc) it took more downloading to get file viewers. Files received (1) OB Account information Registration Date: 03/06/1997 Shows a profit of about €7,200 (deposits €9,700; withdrawals €16,900) Customer Group: Standard (method used to measure the value of a customer to the business) Customer Service Notes: None Customer Attribute Notes: None Date of birth: 28/02/1900 and in this file are scans of the letters I sent/hand-delivered in 2015 asking about my info. (2) Older Chats-pdf Online chat files where I ask about how do I do stuff on their website. (3) Customer Statement Dep + Wth An .xlsx file I can not open. (4) Customer Statement-pdf A detailed statement headed 01/01/97 to 06/10/2015, but it is only from 01/01/2003. I already have an Excel file download from Paddy Power for 2003 to 2006 probably received in 2007. 5) P&L-pdf This is a Deposits and Withdrawals schedule with one figure for each year. I first received this file by e-mail 16/09/2015, and on 17/09/2015 I sent two e-mails to PP listing errors in their file. They had withdrawals as €6,350. The correct figure imo was €16,152. Disappointing that after two e-mails and a hand-delivered letter pointing out their errors they still repeat the wrong info. Comments: Files sent to me in formats I can not read, and an encryption format .aax with no explanation and no suggestion where I might get software to read it. No customer attribute comment. €7,200 profit on €9,700 deposited = 74% profit They sent the same incorrect deposits and withdrawals statement twice, surprised to get e-mailed the same wrong info the second time after I pointed out €9,800 errors. I'm guessing my betting history from 03/06/1997 to 31/12/2002 (deposits/withdrawals) is not in the Paddy Power figures, but they do not say. Their summary (5) runs from 2003 to 2015 incl. They said in an e-mail they received my €6.35 Data Protection fee but not did not receive my ID. This is strange as I handed the cheque to them and handed my passport to them (they took it away and copied it) in their head office in Clonskeagh. |
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Paddy Power are one patient outfit.
You demanded some old information about yourself and when they kindly gave it to you you complained the information was wrong. It begs the question if you knew the information already why were you harassing them. This general idea that bookmakers must have morals is nonsense,the equation is simple they are trying to take your money and we are trying to take theirs. |
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You demanded some old information about yourself and when they kindly gave it to you you complained the information was wrong.
It begs the question if you knew the information already why were you harassing them. Especially in the context of this earlier post - "it would be fun to find out if I am a useless compulsive gambler and a cretin or worse." |
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I didn't ask for old information, I asked for information.
I am asking for information that should be available to all under Data Protection legislation. Paddy Power have a Compliance Officer responsible for Data Protection. I knew the information for 4 years, and told them. I have been betting with them for 18 years, from 1997 to 2015. I gave them my passport in their offices. They said in an e-mail I did not provide ID. In the summary information that covered 2003 to 2015 they sent wrong information for 4 years. I could check the information for those 4 years as I already had it. I sent two e-mails pointing out their errors but they again sent out the wrong info. In their reception I gave them copies of their errors. They told me in their reception that there probably would be no personal info on my files (personal attribute information). And of course when I got the information weeks later there was no personal information. Even after giving them my passport a few weeks ago they still have my date of birth as 1900. I did not expect info from 1997 to 2002 incl but it would be nice if they had the info in any form (summary). I thought I was profitable from 2003 to 2006 from the earlier download, but getting the idea in getting up-to-date info was to see if that download contained all my betting. From 2007 onwards my account is almost dormant, between €100 and €200 a year on four horse accumulators on the Classics, and all losing. Most of what I got from Paddy Power were copies of my e-mails to them. The info they supply is encrypted in software they use but the customer does not have (Axanthum Software's Axcrypt). I had to search the internet to find out what software produced .aax file extension, and they download the software. Finally at 14:00 today I find an Excel .xlsx viewer that allows me see the last of the PP files, and the info is correct (deposits/withdrawals) for 2003 to 2015. My €100 bet on the Arc at 50/1 restricted to €45? Do they restrict all customer bets e.g. bets over €50 or is 50x€100 too much for PP? This is what imo PP should do (1) tell the customer (a) the information available (b) the time period covered (3) the format in which the info is supplied (file type, file version) (2) the requirements to obtain that info: cheque for €6.35; identification (passport; driving licence) (3) check the information before they issue it. I wasted three visits to Paddy Power head office (one should be enough), and many e-mails and letters. |
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Kinscem,
As I understand it, your objective was to find out if they had any 'interesting information' on you? Did you find any? |
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Ozymandius
Below is what I got I have XXXed out my name and address As you can see there is nothing there (now). I think the total bet count of 185 is wildly understated Admin Screens Account Information Username XXXX47 Customer ID 2000xxxx Title Mr Name xxxxxxxxxxxxx Address xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Stillorgan Co Dublin Ireland Security Questions NA Date of Birth 1900-02-28 Mobile NA Customer Group Standard Account Type Debit Registration Date 1997-06-03 00:00:00 Last Bet Date 2015-10-03 00:57:04 IP Address 172.168.1.1 ID Type NA ID Number NA ID Checked NA Age Verified Yes Account Type Debit Account Currency EUR Account Balance €59.03 Account Status Active Total Bet Count 185 Total Stake 9731.80 Total Winnings 16910.56 Customer Service Notes None Customer Attribute Notes None Customer Payment Methods Card Cash Cheque |
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Em, ok, anything of particular interest?
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Yes, the fact he was born in 1900
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The only thing of interest was I lost my internet connection for three hours after I made the above post.
They have no comments about me on the info they gave me. I expected something like "this guy is amazingly unlucky" ... after my £250 win, £100 place at 100/1 on Thomas Bjorn in the 2003 British Open (possible €25k) ... or my £20 four horse accumulator on the English Classics when 3 of 4 won (possible €66k) ... or my English Oaks 20/1, English Derby 11/1 double that failed by a head in the Derby (possible £15k) |
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Thinly veiled, 'I'm amazing' thread imo.
Either that...or a possible Movie script...with the following trailer voice-over (to be read in that booming, dramatic, Hollywood voice beloved of movie trailers) A man with nothing better to do... A man in a heroic stand against an evil corporation... A man who refused to take No for an answer... A man who persevered against all the odds.... Coming soon to a Cinema near you; "Enforcing the Data Protection Act" |
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I gamble to have an interest while watching sports events. Very small potatoes.
Irish poker players regularly make win more in a month than I made in my gambling life. €100k wins are common, with many over €500k (FG, JA, EO'D, AB, SC, MO'D, DO'K) Legislation allows people access to information held about them. I would like if others asked bookmakers for info to see if they get similar output. Did the An Post worker who lost €1.75 million have an account, and did he have customer attribute notes? In December 2012 he got a 4 year sentence with 1 year suspended so he should be out shortly. I'm sure bookmakers never keep notes about customer attributes. |
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Maybe you should go back to reception and ask again? Why give up now? Specify 'notes about customer attributes' in your request. Perhaps they have some colour coding system or other, to categorise punters, which would not show up in a data trawl?
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Good morning Ozy
Either they did not keep notes back in 2003 when I had a few wins, or they "reviewed" my file before releasing the info. I use Betfair now so my data request was just curiosity. My real interest is horse pedigrees. My time on pedigrees is 100 times that spent on picking losers. Fwiw I am this morning entering race times from 1981 into my Group winners databases.  |
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I am also interested in pedigrees Kincsem , you'll have many happy hours pondering them . They are a reference worth keeping.
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Well, thank God you have got it out of your system. The girls at reception can breathe easier now.
You might feel at home here; http://www.dullmensclub.com/ They have a book out; "Dull Men of Great Britain", by Leland Carson There are more than 5,000 members of the Dull Men’s Club – and that’s just those honest enough to sign up. Leland Carson pulls together tales of the ordinary from members such as Kevin the roundabout collector, Archie the “drainspotter", Steve Morton the filofax blogger and a chap called Keith who actually watches paint dry for a living. Read this bizarre book bemused, amused, or furiously wondering why your 20-year-old collection of daily recordings of the six o’clock news’ opening sequence was overlooked in favour of these amateur efforts. |
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If you want to know about real gamblers read Captain Mac-Hell by Richard Onslow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Octavius_Machell Machell won the equivalent of £40 million when Hermit won the Derby in 1867, and the owner won £8 million. In his early years he won bets by jumping from a standing start onto mantlepieces; over billiards tables. Thanks for the recommended reading. I don't think I could stand the excitement. |
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Ozymandius
Well, thank God you have got it out of your system. The girls at reception can breathe easier now. Interesting comments, Ozy. I checked back through my posts and did not mention girls in reception. It is not a term I would use. Have you been to Paddy Power head office yourself? |