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Joeseph retiring end of season to train JP jumpers !
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And in other news,Man has landed on the moon!
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Now its only been released officially that he is to retire, as a short stint over jumps scared the hell' eh I mean didn't suit.
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Had wind of this a fair few months ago but was sworn to secrecy so had to keep hush, wishing Joe, JP and the rest of the gang all the best !!!!!
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Had wind of this a fair few months ago but was sworn to secrecy so had to keep hush, wishing Joe, JP and the rest of the gang all the best !!!!!
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What price a chelt winner or two? Pretty short imo.
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If my memory serves me well CheltenhamRoar previously put up an uncannily accurate description of a race in the Breeders Cup,was challenged in a friendly way,a bet was struck which he won,he then gallantly refused the money,no booms just magnanimity.
He gets friendly with the Cambridge One and within a few months is putting up mean spirited posts. Sad. |
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You have a excellent memory Wildman,It's called Humour,You should try it sometime.
For a Bonus point can you name the Horse in Question? Have a good evening Sir,I know i will. |
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I'm always trying humour.
The beast missed the break and was tailed off before turning in,was it Fame And Glory. |
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It was definitely an AOB trained runner,either Magician or the ill fated St. Nick (used to be an absolute certainty for the Coronation cup)
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You could be correct actually WMFB,it wasn't an AOB winner.
Jesus that Fame and Glory was a paceless yoke but it didn't help when you were running against Sea the Stars. |
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It was an Aidan OBrien trained loser.
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This all ends in tears or the equivalent of a kept woman a la Jonjo in Jackdaws.
I'd say the influence of Mrs O'Brien nee Crowley in all this couldn't be under-estimated. I've seen stronger men bend to the spousal edict. The great assumption is that the father's ability is inherently transferrable when even that ability is hard to measure. Give me the belt and braces success of a G Elliott any day over privilege. |
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You hope it ends in tears.
Joseph OBrien is all you hate,polite,Catholic a redneck in your eyes. Funny how your caring compassionate side turns when an ordinary Irishman is doing well. You even managed to get in a dig about another redneck Irishman Jonjo. Your passionate alright. |
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lots have it handed to them on a plate Wildman, most fail
there's a simple lubricant behind this grand project: the vulgarity of new money and the arrogance of wealth. You're telling me Jonjo's training record is successful? He's the jumping equivalent of Bin Suroor. |
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" the vulgarity of new money " sounding more like the Cambridge One.
We know what that means uppity Irish lads,rednecks having the temerity to own racehorses,worse still the temerity to train the damn things. That free education was a disaster,damn that Donough OMalley. |
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Sounds like we live in a temeritocracy.
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if you fail to see or understand how money makes otherwise sane and normal people into ugly, self-absorbed caricatures of themselves you have led a very sheltered life. Auld decency in short supply.
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Joseph O Brien is a seriously talented jockey. Could never understand the stick he gets here. His height, and therefore his weight was always going to be the problem, not his riding ability.Were he a stone lighter he'd still have the top job. As it is he's done really well to get five years out of it, given his size
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Jonjo is a top notch trainer IMO.
He has an abundance of sh!te in the stable, but that is not his fault. He doesn't buy em. When Jonjo has a target for a horse, he hits it an impressively high percentage of the time. Most will mock with the "cheating the handicapper" bollox. He won a GC with Synchronised. Quite a feat IMO. It wasn't the first big chase he won with this plodder. Many trainers who have had a better standard of beast at their disposal have struggled to have them ready for their big day. Jonjo doesn't. The sign of a good trainer IMO. You can only work with the tools you have(or are given), and Jonjo does a mighty fine job with his stable of mediocrity. When he has had a good one, he certainly hasn't failed them. I hope Joseph makes a success of it. His weight has been the catalyst in his demise(can you even call it that) as a jockey, not his talent. I have no doubt he has infinitely more intelligence than most jockeys turned trainers. Yes, he may start out with a helping hand, but good luck to him I say. Jealousy is a curse. |
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The Piltown excursion has been a bit disappointing if you viewed it in light of some kind of O'Brien/McManus Jumping Dream Team. We know how he campaigns but there haven't been any great touches in big handicaps as yet.
Can we expect some improvement in that yard now Joseph is turning his attention to it full-time? I worked in Kilkenny City and found it a hard enough place to get to from the Munster region so maybe Joseph will now has more time to make a better fist of it. They'll want him to start quick anyway, saw 8/1 for a Cheltenham winner quoted in the paper the other night. On what Callit says above, if he is half the trainer Jonjo is he will be fine. If he is half the trainer Jonjo is and gets the right raw material he will win Grade 1s. |
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Pilltown is not in outer Mongolia.
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Is it not near Kilkenny City GANT, found that place a balls to get to from Limerick, that was six years ago mind.
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It's just outside Carrick on Suir off a main road.
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Ah right, that sounds fine. The place will probably benefit from Joseph's full attention anyway but he wasn't stuck in transit the way I thought so! Saw he's advertising for staff on FB, wonder will he be able to take any with him from home?
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A fine place to train from. Hard to get good staff in the racing game.
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Probably a "no" then. Hope he does well, just a question of whether he has enough of his father's "neurosis" in him. The way he managed to control his weight suggests he has, most lads would have been gone to the bar after the first Epsom Derby win. The neck to take the job after Murtagh will probably stand to him as well!
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callit,
can I try to take you to task on your view of mr o,neill? I have the opposite view than yourself..i may have the advantage as I see a lot more of him up close..he has the best training yard you could wish for, he has a unlimited amount of doe, his record for all he has imvho is poor..your right about targets but any trainer worth their salt should be able to have targets and hit a few..but ones in such a privileged passion as jonjo should have a far better record..as for him not buying them?..he seems to be everywhere when they are bought im sure his advice is sought surely? |
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I cant disagree about whether he is involved in a lot of the buying or not Tony, as I don't know for a fact that he isn't.
I get the feeling though that the final decision is made by a couple of others. JP buys different types of horses to what the likes of Ricci is going out buying. His are mainly store horses, not so much precocious French breds. Jonjo has suffered on more than one occasion with a very bad virus, so his bad periods can be certainly be excused somewhat. Every trainer has targets, but to my eye Jonjo hits the ones that count more frequently than nearly anyone else. He consistently has them right for the day that counts , and the market on race day has started to react to this. Agreed he has state of the art training facilities, but so do many others. JP probably pays over the odds for yokes, simply because its JP buying them. A lot of them are utter rubbish, so I cant see how his position can be viewed as so privileged? A vast amount of his boxes are taken up by sh!te. If he is involved in buying them, then he is partly to blame, but this discussion was about his training ability, not purchasing ability. I cant think of many/any decent horses offhand that I would say..."Jesus Jonjo made a mess out of him". Can you? You will also have absolute imbeciles telling you that Jonjo suffered from having AP as his stable jockey. But that is for another day!! |
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you make fair points callit,but are his training ability and buying not the same thing..to be a top trainer your buying is part of the over all training is it not? like a football manager you live or die by who you bring in?
there's no doubt given the right horse the man can do the job..but my point is his record is poor for what he has had and maybe the buying is whats caused it..as for making a mess of a horse ..it was not my point tbh..im coming at it from he does not get the best out of what he has? you may be right, I could be wrong, just a opinion..watch now jonjo goes and wins the training championship? |
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A lot of Jonjo stock are stores that JP buys and brings through various pre-schooling yards, so Jonjo would have no input in the purchases.
The french horses are unlikely to have much say from Jonjo either, but I would not be sure. Buying is not part of the training ability of most trainers. Henry Cecil would sit and wait for the stock that he would get from his big owners like the Sheikh and then The Prince and would then make the best of what he got. Aidan seems to have next to no input on the purchase side of things and waits for the horses to arrive at his yard. I have never heard of any involvement to a significant degree by Jonjo in the purchases of many of his horses, so he would be judged unfairly using this as part of the process, but maybe he has more input that I am aware of. |
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The other side of the coin is many trainers DO buy their own stock , a typical case would be Ted , Jessie is also a good buyer of stock and buys beautiful animals , you could nearly pick hers out in the paddock without knowing she trained them . Lots of trainers attend the sales with orders from clients and buy what THEY consider a nice horse . You are correct D.V. re Henry and those reciving horses from Goldolphin and Judd . I think Frank buys a lot of JPs for him . What seems to be forgotten here re Jonjo is , not ALL his horses are JPs , he has plenty of OTHER owners who I'm sure he buys for .
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wr,
a friend of mine had a leg in one with him 2 years ago..he told me the establishment is out of this world..he also told me jonjo bought their horse, I understand a lot of stores are bought by jp..but surely jonjo gets enough threw his hands to have a better record than he has..or ffs jp should change his buying agents.. |
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My comment was that O Neill is a very good trainer.
He is. And I thnk you agree with that Tony? Then the argument is not an argument. I was never discussing his ability as a purchaser of horses, which seems to be your main gripe. Your friend may have got a dud, it happens. 99% of the time! Its also a very small sample size to be hanging Jonjo on. No doubt Jonjo does buy the odd for the smaller owner/syndicate, but my point is his boxes are block full of average sh!te that is being bought for JP. That means he has a large % of rubbish to rain. Given this I think he has done very well to plunder the prizes he has. The reason he has been able to achieve this is that he is an excellent trainer who can consistently have them cherry ripe for the one that matters. Yes, JP should definitely change his buying agents!! But he is a very very loyal man, so that wont happen. |
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yes callit I take your point.
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No disrespect to your opinion callit, but i wouldnt send jonjo to the shop for milk.
To say he's a good trainer is in my book miles off the mark. With the facilities provided to him, he really couldnt do any worse. The place is infested with expensive purchases and he continues to underperform year after year. For a stable with the financial backing he has, and also he had the champion jockey on call, hes been an unmitigated disaster. He was a joke trainer in Cumbria, and hes no better now. |
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Have been to Jonjo's and it is a fantastic place. It was the year Mikael won the Neptune whenever that was.
The gallops are amazing and the set up with the hydrotherapy units etc is top of the range. Jonjo may well buy for the other owners and from memory, many of his biggest successes in the past were with horses that were not in the JP colours, so that would a positive regarding him sourcing horses for owners. Willie Mullins clearly has a great deal of say in the purchase of his horses, although I assume Gigginstown operate exclusively without trainer input. |
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Mincer , ffs find yourself a corner and hang your head in shame , his STATS with horses that are READY is beyond belief .Run along now and find something else to bllet about , you are becoming the forum BORE , same old shyte day after day ..
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However when you compare the results that The Duke was getting at Jackdaws in the final years of his training career, when he was on the bottle for a lot of it, you wonder why the results are not better given that the facilities were substantially improved after the JP purchase.
It is easy to write a lot of this off as JP plots, but the results are underwhelming overall. |