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One of Ireland's richest persons, John P. McManus, seeks $5.2 million from the U.S. government after it was wrongfully withheld from his $17.4 million gambling winnings to cover taxes.
In a complaint filed Monday in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, McManus accuses the withholding agent of erroneously withholding the money. Meanwhile, the Internal Revenue Services may have agreed to refund the money, but has been delaying it.
His tax was reviewed twice in 2014 and was eventually remanded to anther department to be reviewed further. Since then, there were no longer actions taken for the claim.
The complaints states that the Irish horse owner and businessman is exempted from the tax on the money he won due to the U.S. - Ireland tax agreement, which is a straightforward international tax treaty.
McManus' lawyer, Houston-based Terry Giles said that they have no other choice but to take action after IRS stonewalled them. "The IRS knows what the law is; it's really pretty straightforward and simple," said Giles.
The IRS considers gambling income as taxable income. Winnings from casinos, horse races, raffles, and lotteries are taxable and mist be reported as income on the tax return, even if the individual doesn't receive an IRS Form W-2G.
McManus reported his winnings as income on his tax return in the U.S., but his winnings are exempt from taxation in the U.S. since he is a citizen and resident of Ireland.
The U.S. - Ireland treaty signed at Dublin in July 1997 was designed to avoid double taxation and fiscal evasion to taxes on income and capital gains. This means earned income outside of Ireland is not under the provincial income tax structure of Ireland.
But McManus is subject to Ireland's domicile levy, which is a flat tax of €200,000 applicable to all Irish domiciliary whose has a worldwide income that exceeds €1 million and whose Irish property is worth more than €5 million.
I thought he rarely gambled on sports anymore even though this would be small fry in comparison to his market plays. It would be interesting to see who laid him.
The debate of his Swiss tax residency versus his domestic philanthropic virtues have being well discussed previously on here.
It will be interesting to see if his UK string is reduced now without a retained jockey based there and the possibility of an increased string with Joseph.
It would be folly to dispute that he indirectly employs a voluminous amount of stable staff, provides immense sponsorship etc. A massive contributor to the industry but the Punter's Pal he certainly isn't.
However the contrast in how the Green and Gold runners are campaigned to Giggy/Ricci runners should be perspicuous to all punters. I have no doubt that the family still have a much stronger interest on betting markets here than is let on, you would imagine the liquidity isn't there for them in the traditional sense but a multi-faceted approach through various vehicles is a strong possibility.
In a complaint filed Monday in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims, McManus accuses the withholding agent of erroneously withholding the money. Meanwhile, the Internal Revenue Services may have agreed to refund the money, but has been delaying it.
His tax was reviewed twice in 2014 and was eventually remanded to anther department to be reviewed further. Since then, there were no longer actions taken for the claim.
The complaints states that the Irish horse owner and businessman is exempted from the tax on the money he won due to the U.S. - Ireland tax agreement, which is a straightforward international tax treaty.
McManus' lawyer, Houston-based Terry Giles said that they have no other choice but to take action after IRS stonewalled them. "The IRS knows what the law is; it's really pretty straightforward and simple," said Giles.
The IRS considers gambling income as taxable income. Winnings from casinos, horse races, raffles, and lotteries are taxable and mist be reported as income on the tax return, even if the individual doesn't receive an IRS Form W-2G.
McManus reported his winnings as income on his tax return in the U.S., but his winnings are exempt from taxation in the U.S. since he is a citizen and resident of Ireland.
The U.S. - Ireland treaty signed at Dublin in July 1997 was designed to avoid double taxation and fiscal evasion to taxes on income and capital gains. This means earned income outside of Ireland is not under the provincial income tax structure of Ireland.
But McManus is subject to Ireland's domicile levy, which is a flat tax of €200,000 applicable to all Irish domiciliary whose has a worldwide income that exceeds €1 million and whose Irish property is worth more than €5 million.
I thought he rarely gambled on sports anymore even though this would be small fry in comparison to his market plays. It would be interesting to see who laid him.
The debate of his Swiss tax residency versus his domestic philanthropic virtues have being well discussed previously on here.
It will be interesting to see if his UK string is reduced now without a retained jockey based there and the possibility of an increased string with Joseph.
It would be folly to dispute that he indirectly employs a voluminous amount of stable staff, provides immense sponsorship etc. A massive contributor to the industry but the Punter's Pal he certainly isn't.
However the contrast in how the Green and Gold runners are campaigned to Giggy/Ricci runners should be perspicuous to all punters. I have no doubt that the family still have a much stronger interest on betting markets here than is let on, you would imagine the liquidity isn't there for them in the traditional sense but a multi-faceted approach through various vehicles is a strong possibility.
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Interesting to find out where his profit derived from . Cant imagine it was from horses , but maybe he has contacts in USA who tip him the wink occasionally on other sports .
I dont think he has much interest in backing his horses in Ireland or UK , other than an occasional dart . Given the number of runners he has , keeping track of runners itself would be a days work . Most of JP's horses are average , some of them with average trainers , yielding an average result . Not many Istabraq's about .
I dont think he has much interest in backing his horses in Ireland or UK , other than an occasional dart . Given the number of runners he has , keeping track of runners itself would be a days work . Most of JP's horses are average , some of them with average trainers , yielding an average result . Not many Istabraq's about .
I have no doubt that the family still have a much stronger interest on betting markets here than is let on,
I believe that he is friends with a football club owner on the south coast of England and i heard there was some arrangement for this person to get money on via JP's accounts during the world cup also played in 2014 which seems to be the tax year they're talking about.
I presume you are talking about Tony Bloom, maybe there is a connection to Matthew Benham
Think this situation relates to 2012 . The IRS were judged against in an initial sortie for having withheld the money , but they have continued to hold onto the money . The USA government ( presumably the IRS ) aint the only government I dont trust . I think they all cheat when it suits , and if they dont win they change the rules . Maybe they take lessons from the bookies .
The IT reports that the money was withheld by the IRS. So does this mean that JP's 'action' was with the Vegas bookies? If so would anyone like to speculate on exactly what was being wagered on? Surely not Irish/UK NH racing?
RF you are saying that this was on 'soccer'?
I must say I find this extraordinary. My view has always been that the bulk of JP's money has been made from some other avenue than just sports betting. 17.4 million dollars profit in one year would suggest otherwise.
RF you are saying that this was on 'soccer'?
I must say I find this extraordinary. My view has always been that the bulk of JP's money has been made from some other avenue than just sports betting. 17.4 million dollars profit in one year would suggest otherwise.
Dearg Dubh, Id say $17.4m is loose change to JP at this stage. That may be hard to imagine but that is the reality.
That is certainly what I have always heard. $17.4m just seems an unimaginable sum to win in a single year. But perhaps as you say mincer it is simply my imagination at fault 
He has been claiming for years that he doesnt gamble anymore. Ive never believed it - of course if one knows that the odds are better than the risk then you could say it aint gambling or better still if you know the result. Tbf one cannot say he is doing anything wrong but there is a lot unknown as to how he has made so much money so quickly. I do have a problem as to how his horses are campaigned and I doubt he is the culprit but he is the owner. If owned most of his I dont think I would be happy.
Unlike Coolmore , who are in it for the sport but also for the money , JP's interest is in the sport , any money associated with his horse activity is I suspect minus . Fact is , an awful lot of his horses are distinctly average , and average horses run average races . Relatively few of the McManus horses are gambled on , and given the possibilities inherent in having a lot of horses with a lot of different trainers that throws up a number of indicators to me .
Dont know myself why JP has so many horses , and so many trainers . Economics would dictate a need to slim down the operation , but hopefully for the sport that wont happen . The South Liberties colours are the most recognisable in NH racing , possibly in all racing . Just glad he is Irish and keeping a lot of racing folk here busy .
Dont know myself why JP has so many horses , and so many trainers . Economics would dictate a need to slim down the operation , but hopefully for the sport that wont happen . The South Liberties colours are the most recognisable in NH racing , possibly in all racing . Just glad he is Irish and keeping a lot of racing folk here busy .
I have often heard you quote a JP interview which completely altered your views on punting.
It seems that this has influenced your views on JP to a sycophantic/naive nature and that you seem to take everything he says at face value.
The way his horses are campaigned is an absolute disgrace,almost every single horse without exception is a target job (big pot).
Have a look at his "average horses" like Carlingford lough getting hammered in his novice chases (beaten at 8/13 fav,11/4 fav,11/4 fav,5/1 fav) and handicaps off 128 until suddenly improving dramatically to land a Galway plate off 133 and is now a consistent 158 performer. I could give at least another dozen similar examples of average horses landing massive hcap pots and subsequently showing the manipulated mark was a joke.
He's closer to a pariah to most punters than your folklore perception of him being the punter's pal.
It seems that this has influenced your views on JP to a sycophantic/naive nature and that you seem to take everything he says at face value.
The way his horses are campaigned is an absolute disgrace,almost every single horse without exception is a target job (big pot).
Have a look at his "average horses" like Carlingford lough getting hammered in his novice chases (beaten at 8/13 fav,11/4 fav,11/4 fav,5/1 fav) and handicaps off 128 until suddenly improving dramatically to land a Galway plate off 133 and is now a consistent 158 performer. I could give at least another dozen similar examples of average horses landing massive hcap pots and subsequently showing the manipulated mark was a joke.
He's closer to a pariah to most punters than your folklore perception of him being the punter's pal.
dj876 , dont let facts get in the way of your interpretations . Nowhere have I ever attributed changing my views on punting to an interview given by JP . My views on punting methods incorporating the availability of new methods were changed after reading an article by a professional punter ( not JP ) in 2002 . The interview you refer to was given by JP to the Limerick Leader well after that . The views expressed by JP in the referred to interview though coincide with a lot of my own views , JP admits to being addicted to winning , which I fully understand . He was not always thus , he stood like a lot of others in the line , many's a bet I had with him , he was always civil and honourable , would that all his compadres acted similarly . And he never closed accounts , unlike all of his compadres calling themselves bookmakers these days .
When you own hundreds of horses throughout the years ( possibly thousands ) any idiot can pick out one or two and portray them as having been run hookily . Horses are not machines , my earliest big disappointment punting was Petite Etoile , deemed unbeatable , but no one told Jimmy Lindley . Horses also develope ( and deteriorate ) , and because sport is often a team game , control is seldom absolute .
Nowhere have I ever described JP as the punters pal , another example of fantasy on your part . He IS the racing mans pal in so far as he provides a huge number of horses to run every year , take him out of the equation and there would be far fewer runners , and possibly fewer trainers in these isles .
Ireland unfortunately has a history of producing "begrudgers" , people who hate to see anyone doing well . Fortunately I dont ascribe that description to myself , anyone who is a begrudger in my experience limits their views on life severely .
When you own hundreds of horses throughout the years ( possibly thousands ) any idiot can pick out one or two and portray them as having been run hookily . Horses are not machines , my earliest big disappointment punting was Petite Etoile , deemed unbeatable , but no one told Jimmy Lindley . Horses also develope ( and deteriorate ) , and because sport is often a team game , control is seldom absolute .
Nowhere have I ever described JP as the punters pal , another example of fantasy on your part . He IS the racing mans pal in so far as he provides a huge number of horses to run every year , take him out of the equation and there would be far fewer runners , and possibly fewer trainers in these isles .
Ireland unfortunately has a history of producing "begrudgers" , people who hate to see anyone doing well . Fortunately I dont ascribe that description to myself , anyone who is a begrudger in my experience limits their views on life severely .
JP admits to being addicted to winning , which I fully understand .
Ha,Sweet Divine ye are like 2 peas in a pod, you forget I can see straight through your guff ala your Dublin trade for 5 ticks despite no mention of trading in your bullish assessment or your infamous method of avoiding the PC through your Tiger lay offs from 8 years ago.
When you own hundreds of horses throughout the years ( possibly thousands ) any idiot can pick out one or two and portray them as having been run hookily . Horses are not machines ,
There are hundreds of examples but I accept you only have a passive interest or knowledge of racing.
Ireland unfortunately has a history of producing "begrudgers" , people who hate to see anyone doing well .
If you knew the first thing about me you would know that inference is BS.
Ha,Sweet Divine ye are like 2 peas in a pod, you forget I can see straight through your guff ala your Dublin trade for 5 ticks despite no mention of trading in your bullish assessment or your infamous method of avoiding the PC through your Tiger lay offs from 8 years ago.
When you own hundreds of horses throughout the years ( possibly thousands ) any idiot can pick out one or two and portray them as having been run hookily . Horses are not machines ,
There are hundreds of examples but I accept you only have a passive interest or knowledge of racing.
Ireland unfortunately has a history of producing "begrudgers" , people who hate to see anyone doing well .
If you knew the first thing about me you would know that inference is BS.
Selective comments , dj876 . No idea what rubbish you are spouting re Dublin trade (? ) . Avoiding PC was largely an accident , facilitated mainly by laying Tiger for big money in one of his golden patches ( having backed him at bigger) . But profit on here was a fact , and laws change , the thinking ones among us always try to cover our backs . Profit ( big) on here ( top 1 % approx only time they published figures) became a minus , someone else paying obviously . The only guff in these posts is coming from you , avoiding facts when challenged . I am blessed with an excellent memory , and I dont invent anything , unlike some other posters .
My passive interest or knowledge of racing began in the early fifties , I was a selective punter essentially until 2002 , when it became obvious to me there was a better way to make more money . I advised others of methods , few if any followed the advice for whatever reason , doubting Thomas's no doubt . I never give anyone a second chance , you only get one bite at the cherry , take it or leave it .
I seldom have a personal bet , 3 or 4 a year maybe , usually each way in a maiden plate , the sort of bet the bookies hate . Most of my other bets are market driven , to trade . I do not need a Mr Donovan to fund future activities , and I aint going to give back any past winnings chasing pie in the sky .
Everything you have said in your last posts indicates begrudgery in some shape or other . Sometimes you just have to accept that some people get it right , JP is one of those , and he does give back . That most of his money comes from activity outside Ireland , and that he puts a substantial part of his wealth in the direction of his fellow Irishmen should gladden any Irish person .
A close relation of my wifes is chairman of one of our Irish racecourses , has been for a long long time . Ask him about JP , the answer is "I wish we had a hundred like him " . Thats the real world out there .
My passive interest or knowledge of racing began in the early fifties , I was a selective punter essentially until 2002 , when it became obvious to me there was a better way to make more money . I advised others of methods , few if any followed the advice for whatever reason , doubting Thomas's no doubt . I never give anyone a second chance , you only get one bite at the cherry , take it or leave it .
I seldom have a personal bet , 3 or 4 a year maybe , usually each way in a maiden plate , the sort of bet the bookies hate . Most of my other bets are market driven , to trade . I do not need a Mr Donovan to fund future activities , and I aint going to give back any past winnings chasing pie in the sky .
Everything you have said in your last posts indicates begrudgery in some shape or other . Sometimes you just have to accept that some people get it right , JP is one of those , and he does give back . That most of his money comes from activity outside Ireland , and that he puts a substantial part of his wealth in the direction of his fellow Irishmen should gladden any Irish person .
A close relation of my wifes is chairman of one of our Irish racecourses , has been for a long long time . Ask him about JP , the answer is "I wish we had a hundred like him " . Thats the real world out there .
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