THE CURRAGH TREBLE

I’ve had the biggest stake of my punting career to date on The Grey Gatsby this evening. It’s obviously nonsensical but I am deeply worried that both RR and Tony O’ Hehir have nominated it. God help us all.

Twud be a worry alright TTK!!

Interesting to see how Jack Naylor returns after last season.

I think that run in the Group 1 at Longchamp behind Found is the key piece of form in the race

I think this treble will come up.

I hope it clicks for the Roadrunner.

Found is my nap,I think she is a n exceptional filly.
They obviously think so as well as they rate her higher than any of their colts ( Gleneagles the exception ) as they are contemplating running her in the Derby.

^^That's only because their struggling for a genuine Derby contender,
If JFK had ran to expectations i very much doubt the Derby would be on this Filly's radar.

Must have hurt somewhat been beat by a Jp horse on seasonal debut (The rag)
She's obviously better than that,Jack Naylor looks hugely over priced to me.

Gatsby is my nap, Urban Moon,and Silwana.

Bolgers in the first is my nap,

Found is my nap

Great start to the day for Moore

RR and Tony O'Hehir stopping trains

Not going so well now

Borneo, nothing has changed, the O`Heir of this forum, I will say it again...... the amount of short-priced horses you like and fail to win is unbelievable. You do know what the word value is.

The Grey Gatsby never raised a leg today. Time will tell but the result probably didn’t help the cause with the Pattern committee. I took that result on the chin. However, my bet on Golden Spear to steady the ship was tough to take. Harvey will have some fun with that horse off his mark.

There isn't many jockeys riding who would have got beaten on golden spear today. Riding a horse with at least a stone in hand and failing to win is absolutely criminal . Lordan will win no race he shouldn't for the entire season and I'd be surprised if he rides this horse again

He prob head for the 1m4f hcp Derby Day. Could still have enough in reserve after that for the Premier hcp Fri eve of Galway.

I don’t do much jockey slating but riding on the assumption that you are going to get a break off the rail is dangerous, especially in better type races where horses aren’t as likely to fall back. Worst part is that I was in between Pyromaniac and Golden Spear for the saviour and went for the GS as Fran was on the other one.

Callit I’m not sure he’s even a 1m4f horse in truth, just was horsed in at the weights. He’d run well in a Galway Mile. He needs to win before getting into those races though.

Galway Mile is a bit of a 7f horses race though really. Speed is crucial. You wont come from behind, regardless of gallop.

All his English form is at shorter and he travelled all over them today. If he got the rub of the green in Galway there would’t be anything finishing stronger. All academic anyway until Harvey decides his plan.

TTK, you will never get a break when all the other top jocks are constantly blowing you all over the track. I have lost count the amount of times lordan loses out in a scrimmage . His peers recognise him as a soft touch and treat him accordingly. I agree entirely about this particular horse though, he is very well handicapped and is most likely durable distance wise . Anything from the GPT to the Ebor is a possibility . Another thing to take from today's race is that when Quinlan decided to retire , he made the right decision

There's probably truth in that. Lordan does come across as a meek enough character. Even in terms of jockeys he is fairly waif in size.

Golden Spear looks a small enough type, bit of a pony neck too. He's definitely at least a 90 horse though. Yesterday should have been the first of a lucrative summer in good handicaps.

It's also true about Quinlan though he has inadvertently proved a useful for the owners as he's provided them with a such a well handicapped horse in a similar manner to that fella that had Quick Jack (albeit he was sold) and Dark Crusader plus a good few more before Harvey got them.

I know he has weight problems but you'd watch Billy Lee's ride in the matron last season and wonder how he isn't in the top 5 or 6 in Ireland. I think he could ride 100 winners easily in the North of England if he wanted to go that way.

I also reckon Joseph would have come in for some flack had he ridden Found in the manner Moore did, okay he way held in and the moves he made in the race were justifiable, but ya don't retain Moore to mitigate defeats, just win!

*Ya don't retain Moore to explain the mitigating circumstances in defeat. The best jocks just come out the right side of the 50/50 calls. Moore does generally in fairness but I thought he failed to pick up on how flat Gleneagles was as well and that might have cost him in a better renewal. I'd say Gleneagles might have had it easy since Newmarket given they were facing essentially the same horses he beat easily and they are now looking to just get over Ascot in the same manner and have him right for the Sussex and QEII where he'll need to be closer to his Newmarket form.

I'd be very much pro Ryan Moore but I thought there was a lot of hot air over the ride on Gleneagles. It always looked to me that he wanted to get a toe in behind Convergence and go from there, which is what happened. In an ideal world I'm sure he'd have tacked to the outside of that horse but Chesney's one was in the way so he kept to the inner. He was never not getting out though.

I think he is the best around and by some way but I was just a little taken aback by how Gleneagles didn't seem to do things as quickly as previously. Won snug in the end anyway and can definitely see the logic of not hitting the front too soon on a track like the Curragh. Sometimes if it isn't a push button job but more a grinding one I like to see them placed a little more forward. I guess I'm the same fella who was lambasting him for his ride on Telescope a few weeks ago!

There is no denying the brilliance of Moore but his ride on Gleneagles was poor,the horse got him out of trouble.

If Tombelaine had started his drift to the rail a fraction earlier he would never have got out.

I disagree with Neil D when he says they may have taken it easy with Gleneagles,I think the opposite is the case.
They are trying to convince themselves he can win the Derby and in fairness Saturdays victory had Derby written all over it but he races like a miler,looks like a miler and could be damaged by trying to turn him into something he isint.

I think he is very unlikely to go the Derby route for 2 reasons, 1) he looks a miler, but 2) and more pertinently, Coolmore are desperate to stand themselves an out and out miler son of Galileo. Rip Van Winkle isn't perceived that way and doesn't have the strength in his damside anyway. The idea that Gleneagles woyuld get a mile-an-a-half, even around Epsom (don't think he would) would be harmful to the image they'd like to portray of him. The idea of a tenderly handled Gleneagles (ridden patiently to get the trip) and creeping (staying into 2nd 3rd or 4th) would quite frankly frighten the hell out of them.

I think they have reconciled with themselves that they won't win the Derby and that the best outcome for them is to prevent a colt from a rival doing it and getting the kudos. Thus they are likely to run Found or Legatissimo or both. The Oaks doesn't really mean much to them bussiness wise so I wouldn't be surprised to see them stick Curvy in that an send the two fillies to the big one to spoil the party. They wouldn't or shouldn't be too put out if the Oppenheimer horse (**** sire) or the other Gosdon horse Jack Hobbs(too backward) Elm Park (perceived as slow) won it though, none of them will make stallions. Zawraq has the sense of a fast classy horse (who won at 2) like Golden Horn has but he is by a decent sire, that would probably be the worst result for them but I don't think they are really bothered by shadwell. What they don't want is a Godolphin/Qatar winner so they're safe enough.

Amazingly Rip Van Winkle is getting sprinters.

Surprised as well although I considered him a fast horse and he had his 2yo form in the Tyros Stakes which is hardly backend, still v surprised. Just saw the news of Bill O'Herlihy, the lad accross from me here got a bit emotional as he told me, started talking about the world Cup in 2002, bit of all of our youth went with him I think.

TTk, I'm starting to think Gatsby might have had enough of the game since his epic battle with AUST at Leop , he looked a picture yesterday but folded as if shot,  his run in the UEA should have forewarned me ,even allowing for the fact it was too short for him. The jury is out on him atm.

Rip Van Winkle's dam side is all speed.

I was very surprised to see him get the distances he did and that is down to just what Galileo can influence in addition to class.

No surprise to see him get speedy types.

Possibly WR. He was beat at halfway and there was no apparent reason for it. He had everything in his favour. He had to go to the well a few times last year but proper horses like him should be able to thrive on that. If you told me that Al Kazeem was the one he had to finish ahead of I would have gone in again.

DV, I rememeber reading on the bloodstock forum that those who saw Rip described him as lengthy and more of a middle-distance type in terms of looks. I don't know much about his damside at all but was sure I'd heard it was from Italy and not really much to write home about. I'd always thought that the ability in this case had come through the sire and that even though I thought Rip was a fast horse based on his Sussex run, his Derby and the Juddmonte run at 4 say otherwise and then combining this with his physical makeup I thought he might get stayers if he was really stamping his stock in his own image.

Distant View might not have been surprised but Coolmore were as was Aiden OBrien

Neill D is correct in saying Rip Van Winkle looked a stayer and was a stayer.

As AOB is so fond a saying about various charges, Rip was a horse with a turn of foot who stayed well. His most optimum trip was a mile in my book as evidenced by his Sussex win over Paco Boy. That was the best run of his career. Given he started his career in a 7f maiden on Derby weekend I am sure they saw him as a stayer in the beginning. If he came along now with speed being such an important buzzword for the PR he probably wouldn't have run in the Derby.

Coolmore have been surprised in the past and will be again.

Magnier was not keen on standing Montjeu at all and hardly sent him anything in the first couple of years and Ballydoyle did not train many if any of the first crop or two. He proved him a little bit off the mark.

I would not listen to anything Aidan says about the stallions anyway as he is just a publicist for the operation. His interests in their stallions was ended with Mozart.

Rip could prove to be a decent stallion but the dam line might count against him in the end. Maybe the progeny can go to Oxford though along with the hyper intelligent Dylan Thomas offspring.

Kevin Ryan wouldnt train a cat to drink milk, and thats the long and short of it. A nothing trainer.

Lordan is a smarmy weasel and always has been,when you have that much in hand bring them wide and take the traffic risk out of the equation. He was in a decent position early in the race but couldn't hold it.

Hardly Ryan Moore's finest weekend of riding,John Magnier had a half joking dig about the Gleneagles ride.
Fair dues to Jim Bolger,ensured there was a strong gallop and don't think Found was actually all that unlucky. She met trouble obviously but the winner was well holding her at the line. A nice quip from Bolger about the standard of his neighbour's colts being a bigger influence than the quality of his filly in running her in the Irish Derby.

The betting suggested that Giovanni Canaletto would grind out a win at best. I thought Moore had him terribly positioned,albeit he has an awkward head carriage and is moderate,still felt he probably could have won the race if he wasn't chasing a Coolmore filly.

Watch the race again......... and tell me when was he able to go wide..... Eh I will tell never......

Obviously he wasn't able to go wide when he made the decision to go onto the rails inside Bolger's horse after a furlong. Despite being drawn in six he put the horse's chance in the hands of the gods from there.

Easy you may well have the game by the balls and are cleaning up. However, it takes a fair man to not talk sense even when he knows the result of a race. Certainly a sign that someone should be given a wide berth when level headed posters like Tolmi take you to task. Especially so when you spend your day opening threads on the main forum that no-one reads about nothing riders giving bad horses dodgy rides. A waste of time if ever I saw it.

Well said TTK

The thing is Tell The King, you come across that u have the game by the balls, and like your selection last night, Coldstonesober???? I just had to let you know where you where going wrong...... 2 miles at Ballinrobe on good ground, never going to happen. Did I spoil your party???

Regards, to Golden Spear you need to watch the first 200 yards again........ he held his line, looked left, and the bolger horse took is spot, from there on he was stuck in a pocket, face it, it happens.

People have a go when I come on after the race.......... but everyone is quite when I give my opinion before the race......... and just wait for the result and hoping my opinion is way off to have a go...... but the opinion if right and you`s are like sleeping babies all quite....... the thread`s are read but all very silent, just hoping????? A sign of ........ sheep....... sheep follow sheep.

As it happens Easy I didn't back that horse. Was interested @ 8's but price had almost halved by the time I looked again. To borrow a string from your after-timing bow, I backed 5 winners from 6 bets yesterday to more than win back the 1,200 I dusted between the Gatsby and Harvey's horse on Sunday.

I think we've covered Golden Spears race in depth enough. I have my viewpoint that Lordan complicated matters on a good thing. If you disagree then fine. All I know is that any proper rider doesn't give away their ground too easily.

I have a high degree of confidence in my opinion. I'm also not afraid to give my opinion, rightly or wrongly. However, what I don't do is come along after a race and tell someone why they were wrong. To be honest it's very rare you say anything before a race as far as I can see. Also, people wouldn't have you labelled as an after-timer without good reason.

I smiled when I heard that Bolger comment DJ, I think he'd be the only man with the balls and type of humour to say something like that. You look at some of the young up-and-coming trainers in the UK particularly, the likes of Varian and Botti and they would bore you to tears.

Ger Lyons here is prone to a c untish comment, such as when I heard he called out the ground staff at Cork, was wrong in his assertions on the day and never acknowledged it. At least he'll say it though if he feels it needs to be said. He had a go at Varian over pulling Kingston Hill from the Irish Derby & running him on the same ground over the wrong trip in the Eclipse, predictably there was no riposte. I enjoy the likes of Bolger & Weld and would fear for the future in that regard.

One thing I'll say about Moore and Coolmore, while it is all about winning, I do think Moore will have to learn the importance of appearances. In Stoute, he was riding for someone who never considered commerciality when training/campaigning a racehorse. He has changed his ways a bit already in his post-race interviews on Coolmore horses, ie. if the fastest miler they've ever had has to come off the bridle 3 down at the Curragh, remember to mention he hated the ground! Even better if he could keep him on the snaff a bit longer though!

So if he was 8s you would have, that`s the reason I came on ........ I told Mincer...... I would give my opinion before the race the next time I was involved.... 2 miles around Ballinrobe is not for him, the form is there in front of you.

You are not around long enough so....... After-Timer, far from it.. Far from it.......

Well done with your winners yesterday`s...... keep it going........

Yeah if the 8's held I'd have backed him. Probably only for fifty but I'd have backed him. You won't go too far wrong backing 8/1 shots that return 9/2, as you say yourself, over a large number of races. His second over two miles around the sharper hurdles track gave me hope he'd handle the speed test in quite a poor race. Turns out he didn't.

I've had a betfair account in my own name since I turned 18 so that's nearly 8 years ago. Been posting on here for most of that and I've only ever noticed you after timing. Take care......

I play in-running, no point telling people your strategy and miss the price yourself............ But if I do come on, it`s for good reason not to criticize........ like yourself I trust my work.

The one good thing about this site is that nobody loses, it really is a marvellous place.

I'll tell you one thing mincer, I was a definite losing punter long term until the past NH season started. Couldn't put a figure on it but I am sure it was well into  five figures overall since I'd have started as a garsun. Turns out with a lot of discipline it can be done (at least to provide a decent supplemental income).

so found was beaten by a TEOFILO filly, do you remember the gobshoites telling me how crap that stallion was
and DARK ANGEL, go and have look at the top flat racing sires tables / top sires of 2yo olds. those thick ****s are now making me look like a genius. you know who you are

Googling the meaning of arbitrary and ceasing the compilation of exhaustive lists could be your first steps on the road to genius.

Im not doubting you for a moment Tell the King, genuinely i'm not. I think i could decipher from peoples posts whether they have the capacity to win or not, and i can see from what you write ,that you have a good knowledge and a little info as well.
But the place is littered with so called winners who wouldnt know what day of the week they have, people who unfounded high opinions of themselves.
I myself wouldnt be a long term winner either, like most i'd have good and bad runs, but i dont mind admitting as much.

While I don't doubt the amount of effort you put in easygold I would imagine the time difference must make the in running difficult unless you have fast pictures?

And honest answer please do the majority of your posts criticising jockeys occur when you think they haven't ridden the race you envisioned they would and you have lost money because of it?

Hi Tolmi....... no Fast pictures needed for my way...... my opinion is made a long time before the race is off and typed in as a keep bet....... My criticizing of riders, is usually ones that have done it a lot of times in their career, and think they are the proper professional. The amount of errors some make time an time again is not allowed to go unnoticed.
Even the best make a lot of errors, but make up for it 5 times over. The problem is the rules........ 95 winners and your a professional a lot of riders in my opinion would need to ride 250+ for me to call them a true professional.

And to answer, my lost of investment on a horse race because of the rider who does a poor job, is frustrating........ if the normal person today makes the same mistake time and time again they would be idle.
Some riders need to be told, time and time again what they are doing wrong...........

James Doyle, is known as a top jock.......... have a look at his ride on Alfajer today (4.00 Leic) a so called professional and that`s the way he thinks he should ride a horse that is dropped down in trip....... appalling effort, and yes I was involved in a e/way double.

This is my work, and I work very hard at it, I expect the same from them.

4.30 Leic...

I would have thought surely that fast pictures would increase your profitability greatly especially nearer the latter part of a race?

One thing I have learnt over many years backing horses is that its very easy to blame jockeys when they may have made a mistake but it is equally easy to forget all the times you back a winner that was the beneficiary of a poor ride on one of his opposition..We just don't think that way.

I found in my younger days that I did more damage punting when I was angry at a poor ride on a horse that I felt should have won.Now I try to maintain a state of equilibrium either way.The luck evens out over a sufficient sample size.

I also try to factor jockeys into my thinking when I have a bet.If I back a jockey whom I dislike normally I prepare myself for the worst and consider it a bonus if he gets a good ride.

Saw that Doyle race. Was interested in her as she looked well in, price was bit tight though for me. In fairness he gave her no ride at all.

Tolmi........ again I make my decision before the race starts......... a profile horse will be layed at a certain price and that`s done and dusted, if it reaches the price I put in well an good if not no harm either. (These are horses that I feel hold a lot back for themselves)

Regards to jockey`s...... I have a long list that I`m wary of......... myself I lower my stakes (i.e points system) and that way has done me well over the last 10 years.

Telltheking........ yes the price was too small for me to tip-up for a single........ my average price is 15/2 a year) but big enough for an e/way double. The ride was deplorable, and he did something like that in the last too.