How Many Should We Let In

Same amount as we export

I suppose that would be around 50,000.

What are the current numbers, Borneo, split between EU and non-EU?

I found these figures:

Year ending
                     April 2013  April 2014    
Immigration               55,900         60,600    
Emigration              89,000         81,900    
Net migration              -33,100    -21,400    
of which Irish nationals  -35,200    -29,200    
Natural increase       40,800     37,900    
Population change        7,700     16,500    
              
Population            4,593,100   4,609,600

I don't know.

What figure would you consider fair ?

Other main features of the 2014 figures are:

* Almost half of the 81,900 people who emigrated in the year to April 2014 were Irish nationals (40,700 persons, or 49.7 per cent).

* Net migration among non-Irish nationals from outside the EU is estimated to be plus 11,200 (of which almost 20 per cent were Brazilian).

* This release provides an analysis of emigration by economic status for the first time and shows that the majority of those emigrating were either at work or a student in the period prior to departing with fewer than 1 in 5 being unemployed (see table 6).

* A breakdown of emigration by level of education (also published for the first time), shows almost half of those emigrating (47%) were educated to third level (see table 5).

What do you mean you don't know?  Why don't you educate yourself on the facts before resorting to scaremongering?

Not so sure its a good exchange.

We export our young who we have educated at some cost to the state.
We get in return uneducated Muslims who need welfare from day one.

Assuming that we can do little about immigration from within the EU, other than leave it, which would be unwise on the whole, then the main figure which has your knickers in a twist is the following;

Net migration among non-Irish nationals from outside the EU is estimated to be plus 11,200 (of which almost 20 per cent were Brazilian).

11,000...its hardly a plague of locusts is it?

I said I didn't know the answer to the question you asked,it seemed irrelevant to me.

I stand by my figure of 50,000.

Well if you want the university kids to stay your focus needs to on job creation rather than scaremongering about a handful of Muslims.

Why not start a daily thread about Job Creation?

I said I didn't know the answer to the question you asked,it seemed irrelevant to me.

facts about existing numbers are irrelevant to you?

You must be on the p1sstake.

I'll leave you to it so.

Mr Combustibles point was we should take in the same amount as we send out.

I think you have misunderstood the thread.

The migrants I'm referring to are the ones crossing the Meditteranean .

Aine Lawlor was demanding our Foreign Minister take in substantially more than he was prepared to commit to.

You must be in Bali again as the Mediterranean crossings are all over the news.

Which is why I draw the distinction between EU and Non EU in practically every post on the thread.  The figure is 11,000 net (of which 20% are Brazilians)

Here is a table breaking down immigrants and emmigrants by number and origin for years 2009 to 2014.

http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2014/#.VTT3cCEyPIU

It may interest you that the net migration to Eu (excluding UK) is - 5.2.  So 5,200 more left than arrived from EU (excluding UK) in 2014.

Good grief.

Indeed, it tells a poor story when the immigrants are deserting us and leaving.

Good grief aris.

* EU immigrants that is.

none.

let the former colonial powers take them as some sort of recompense for the past.

Ozymandius please tell me you are filibustering.

After 65 years of guilt and open door policy, the Colonial Powers are bursting at the seams, as Borneo's friend Mr Farage will attest to.

EU immigrants time with the dole ran out.
Loan of the Eithne or Aoife to patrol the south Med would be a help.
When your ould man/ma isn't left out in a hospital corridor might be a time to reevaluate the amount coming in.

When you are in the hospital IN IRELAND, Pa, do you see many foreign faces taking up bed space.  I can't say I do.

I do notice who is handing out the care, though...no shortage of non-Eu practitioners there.  Where would we be without them?

The people handing out the care are not doing it for philanthropic reasons,they are doing it because they are well paid.
That's the type of immigrant we want.

The grilling our minister got was for us to let in a couple of thousand of these migrants currently crossing the Mediterranean.
These would go straight on to welfare,their families would acquire rights especially the older sicker relatives.

Knowing how craven our lot are we would end up with the gentlemen who were throwing the Christians overboard.

I've never met a nurse yet who was well paid.

You are right though, these are the type immigrants we want.  Or actually need.

I wounder if you deduct the number of 'Acceptable or Required' Immigrants from the 11,000 number above, how small a number remains?

You are still not following the thread.

The question I posed was how many of those migrants trying to cross the Meditteranean should we let in.

Your pal the corpulent fat cat pension laden Peter Sutherland thinks we should take in some twenty thousand as our fair sure.
Aine Lawlor considered a couple of hundred derisory.

My question is how many do the  posters on here think would be right.

I do think the Christians under attack in Lybia meet the requirements to seek Assylum here and we should open our arms as wide as possible for them.  Or at the very least take our fair share within a European wide effort.

As regards the economic migrants floating across the Med, one's heart breaks for them.  But within current policies/laws on such illegal migrants, I am unclear of their rights of access, if any.  Ireland, along with most European countries have toughened their stance on such issues and correctly so.

We didnt bomb Libya,that was Sarcozy and Cameron.

They should have listened to Farage,he was against that intervention and the other proposed intervention in Syria.

ISIS have a policy of sending refugees to Europe,its in their own words a psychological weapon.

Those figures produced by the CSO are guessitmates. Significantly, there is no figure for those who are here illegally. When you consider that 8 million visit the country every year we have no idea of how many go home. Furthermore, of those who need a visa to enter the country, we don't know how many of from that category leave when their time is up. I suspect that the figures are grossly under cooked. We don't check the passports of individuals leaving the country which is a very naive and should be addressed immediately.

We don't have the capacity to bomb anybody and there may come a time when we are glad that our nearest and dearest neighbours do.

It's an enormous responsibility choosing when and when not to exercise such overwhelming force. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Zero, they shouldn't be let on shore. Should be another boat waiting  and sent straight back.
This country couldn't support 3.5 million people 15 years ago, now we have 4.5, does this extra million need 20,000 taxi drivers?

The only people we should let in are the ones who are here to work, you start work a week after you arrive and should get no assistance from the welfare for two years.

Ozy, you might like to try the childrens hospitals or the childrens dental clinics around Dublin to see whos in the waiting rooms. They are not all Irish.Our health services are under massive pressure, why would people want to load it more. People waiting two years to see consultants, homeless people all over the place, irish couples living with their parents, tens of thousands of non Irish on the housing lists.

Our Government are borrowing 1 billion every month just to stand still. Heres a quick reminder to everyone who wants to take a couple of thousand in.

Couple with one child only.

weekly welfare  €374..................annually €19448.00
Monthly rent allowance €950...........annually €11400.00
Monthly childrens allowance €135....  annually €1620.00

Thats a grand total of.........................€32468.00 annually.

I did not include medical cards, back to school allowance or the allowance for the council house if they are lucky enough to be taken off the housing list, approx 3k as the landlord is deemed to own everything in the rented house.

Council housing list.

Beds.
BedLinen.
Wardrobes.
Table and chairs.
Fridge.
Washing Machine.
Microwave.
Curtains.
Cutlery
Kitchenware.
Carpet/Wooden flooring

So maybe all these people who want to let more in should be asked ....How much more tax per week are you willing to pay......€10...€20....€30...€40 or should we just take it out of the already tiny pot for the poor so we can be classed as a caring country in some **** poll run by people who can't see the poverty here from afar.

It's like this people, we already have more than enough poor people in this country and the liberals who think we should take more are not better people than the people who say we can't take anymore, they just have their heads buried in the sand.

We have enough poor in Ireland, if anyone wants to help them, put your hand in your pocket and donate some cash to a cause, don't spout CRAP about bringing even more people to share from THEIR bowl, if the Government want to bring lots more of poor people then they should put up the Corporate Tax on these big companies as they are the only one's who will benefit as there will be more poor which will eventually bring the minimum wage crashing down.

Lets keep the tiny amount of money this Government give to the poor each year for the poor who are here now whether they be Irish, Black, Muslim or Africian.

No Job = No Entry
There are enough poor here already.

I think everyone is in agreement that immigration needs to be very tightly controlled.  And increasingly has been in recent years.

But to talk about POVERTY my friend...couples living with their parents..that not poverty...that's a First World problem.  You have not seen much of the word if you are think we have a poverty problem.

Why do social welfare payments remain so high?  That's the real scandal. No wonder we have to borrow a billion a month.  Immigration numbers are under control and scaling back dramatically.  Why can't we halve social welfare payments?  Social welfare was designed as a safety blanket not as a means to fund a comfortable lifestyle.

And this expectation of a pristine perfect Health System.....it's there if you want it, you just have to pay for   it.  Which means getting off your arse and working to pay for it rather than expecting it to be handed to you by the State..and whinging when it is not to your liking.  Take it up with the taxpayers who are paying for it.

And if you cant get a job, and want one, get on a plane.  You have the gift of the English language and and the blessing of a decent education.

Or sit at home, do nothing, and have all your needs very well taken care of, thanks to the overly generous Social Welfare system.

But whatever u do, do not come on here pleading feckin POVERTY!

Immigration numbers are under control and scaling back dramatically

It's time to stop the bluffing.

A guess at the breakdown of the Irish sports forum employment status ?

a) 40% Dole/Disability - plenty of chancers on disability I'd imagine
b) 30% PAYE employment
c) 7% Students
d) 13% retired
e) 7% self-employed
f) 3% professional gamblers - no other source of income

Ozy

So you suggest we HALF the social welfare on people living here already so people who want to take people in the country can feel good about themselves.

Again people want to take more off the people who have the least and keep everything they have themselves.

I've heard it all now.

ISIS are using these refugees as a psychogical weapon.
Have no doubt these are ISIS members in all these boats.

Europe already have a fifth column,yet here we have the usual sentimentalists clamouring to augment this column..


Ozymandius is a typical intolerant Liberal,support the strange despise your own.

Good posts Luckyme,well written and says it as it is.

Ozy

So you suggest we HALF the social welfare on people living here already Yes, absolutely you have already admitted we are over borrowing, welfare payments are far far too high.

so people who want to take people in the country can feel good about themselves.  Have not said we should take these people in question in.  They are illegal economic migrants.

Again people want to take more off the people who have the least and keep everything they have themselves.  The reason people on the dole in Ireland 'have the least' (and actually they have more than many people who make the effort to work) is that they are at home doing nothing.  It's just feckin wrong to pocket 33 grand (as you quoted earlier) plus health, plus housing plus education etc etc etc...just for sitting at home on your hole.  Or 'poverty' as you call it.

Ozy, I am half agreeing with you, I do not mean to suggest that people who get 32k are poverty stricken but there are working couples on less and they maybe struggling big time, also the social welfare is collected by two types of people

1. people who do not do "nixers" at anytime during the year and rely totally on the welfare.  these people are finding it tough.

2  people who do nixers 2 or 3 times a week and do not report they are working to the welfare. these people are laughing at the rest of us who work 40 hours a week and paying all our taxes, yet when you question them as to why they think it is right, they mutter "oh I just thought I could do it, sure I am not hurting anyone, when you tell them their monthly money from the welfare would keep an extra nurse in the childrens hospital for a week, they could n't give a flying f$$k.

I feel that these debate exist so that people can visit their own sins on hypothetical scrounging foreigners, but anyways, the Irish Rock and Roll system is no soft touch, I have a mate from Latvia who worked here as a skilled craftsman for a number of years paid full stamp etc, when he was laid off he got a contract for six months in Finland, when he returned from that he looked for work for a few weeks until his money ran out, when he tried to sign on his stamps, he was refused because he had left the country for that period, he was obliged to live off the charity of friends and odd jobs until he got a job doing what no no Paddy would do, cleaning hotels rooms six days a week for minimum wage, where he remains. Sorry if ye're dreams are punctured but the truth is ye may have to eat ye're own sins.

Why didnt your mate go back to Latvia ?

Frances Fitzgerald has put a figure on it,fifty.
I thought this woman but be a sentimental feel good disaster,seems this lady has some backbone.

Oliver Js son is too busy lecturing the Egyptians on their legal system,too busy trying to get a Jihadist released back to Ireland to bother challenging the usual RTE pandering to sentimental nonsense.

Frances Fitzgerald on again this morning and more impressive.

Not for her this sentimental emoting just straight answers.

I feel that these debate exist so that people can visit their own sins on hypothetical scrounging foreigners

Very well put, Sir.

When the bodies of asylum seekers en route to Australia washed up on the shores of Christmas Island in 2010 everyone was in agreement that something needed to be done.

Five years later Australia has implemented one of the harshest border policies in the world. It is characterised by three core points: turning or towing back boats of asylum seekers at sea; forcing asylum seekers to live in detention centres across the Pacific in Nauru and Papua New Guinea; and guaranteeing they will never be resettled in Australia.

Australia’s immigration debate began at a similar point to the current crisis facing Europe. Five years ago, boats were coming, mostly from Indonesia – a transit country to where asylum seekers travelled from as far away as Iraq or Afghanistan in an attempt to enter Australia – and more were coming than had ever come before.

The policy did largely stem the flow of asylum-seeker vessels to Australia. Since the government came to power, only 16 boats have made the journey to Australia. Only one has been successful. No deaths have been reported.




From The Gaurdian

The Traffickers are deciding Europes immigration policy.

Relatively wealthy Africans pay traffickers so they can jump the queue.

My original question was how many would you let in,some answered but the bleeding hearts deliberately avoided it,they live in a pretend world where only good things happen and good deeds make them feel good,especially if it doesn't affect them,its called the Bono / Geldof syndrome.

I would only let those in that could benefit our economy, those that have certain skills that are needed here - like it is when trying to emigrate to other countries (outside the EU) from here

Just home from England tonight , got on the ferry in Holyhead , I'm serious about this , there was at least 40 Roma on board and they were driving ,so I'll leaves it to your imagination .Got talking to a young lad from North Kerry who like mot of us sitting on board ,was stunned at the amount on the ship , told us he had been in England working , his school class was 35 kids ..He asked us to guess how many were still in the village working , there was only 3 left at home , and as he looked across at the Roma and some Africans and Asians he was angry at the amount of Foreign people coming in ,  he felt there was nothing for young Irish people but emigration ...None of those driving would be stopped or asked to show passports ..Amazingly there WAS a Immigration officer at the port checking OUR passports ...

Were you wearing a Rovers top?

white shirt with sleeves rolled up , pair of six day old slacks and a pair of patent slip ons id say

Ozy ,the Times did a piece on guys like you on Wedns , they said people that keep asking QUESTIONS on forums were really to be avoided at all costs ,they said ye were WORSE than trolls ,and had a hidden agenda..That query you put up awhile ago spings to mind ...Tubby did you have your Wexford shirt on when teaching those unfortuante kids ......Or did you have the big STICK out...

BTW ,its wonderful that you think so highly of me Tubby ,only time you appear is when I'm around , is it something I should know about...

Wonks posts some incomprehensible negative mumble about people who ask questions on forums, then directly proceeds to ask Toby what he's wearing.

One of a kind

Ozy ,you are good at the aul computer , have a look and see for yourself , then come back on and tell me I got it wrong if you can ..Strange thing happened ,went to see T Hardy's cottage and on the way back was listening to Radio 3 when what should come on air , Shelleys , Ozimandius if you dont mind , turned to the wife and said this guy off the forum is haunting me...

He way to solve this is do what Australia done..a harsh  think but effective.if people know,it's a waste of time trying it will soon stop,these people are all on social media etc...

I think if they are useing prostitutes and are complete twats they should not be let in.

Aine Lawlor again aggressively demanding we take in thousands of these migrants.
Sean Sherlock and Catherine Murphy bravely batted off the question but the Fianna Fáil representative responded in the way Lawlor wanted,opportunistic still.