.....Be Honest would AP get as many rides .....

Heck Thomas chucked it in half way up the run in,think he will be a weak finisher in future.
Different pace usually in that they generally go slower early in Ireland imo,not a fan myself of him there but with so few rides hard to judge him fairly really.

One thing that i am convinced of anyway workrider is that the vast majority of english based jocks aren t a first cousin of their Irish counterpart .... Guys like Tom Scumdamore , Sam Twiston Davis , Nick Schofield ect ect are nowhere near as good as Russell ,Carberry, Mark Enright ect ect

Would have to agree Dinglemick , some very ordinary jocks across the pond...
Pa ,not sure he chucked it , think AP sending up the inside didn't help his cause , not saying he would have won either...

Embarrassing Thread.

Winner won hard held and the contribution's close proximity to the race suggests pocket talk.

Heck Thomas was hammered and Russell could have won by more than a dozen lenghts if wanted so contribution is utterly pointless.

Game of OPINIONS DJ

Again AP tries to go up the inside going to the last and has to pull around another to get out , lost all chance ...

CMIC

What difference could AP going up the inside,Heck Thomas could have been beaten 6 lengths instead of 8 lengths maybe. Pointless

Did you think Byerley Babe was closing on Foxroxk going to the line WR??

All opinions are not of equal merit however -many being  biased or hazy feelings which lack any logical coherence or factual basis.

Embarrassing thread is putting it mildly dj

NO NEED FOR IT SNAP

don't think the thread is embarrassing at all?..wr ask a question about ap?..you may not agree with it..but its a valid question ..regarding the jockey..in Ireland?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tony refer to the ride that is put forward as an example to verify his point and it's extremely embarrassing.

Even Tribal Pa disagreed that AP could hae done anything else on Heck Thomas

I backed the winner DJ ,so was GLAD he went up the inside on BABE ,so not pocket talking , if you took the time to look back at the Heck race you will see him try for over a furlong to get by Ruby who rightly boxed him in , I also NEVER said he would win ..It was just an observation of AP nothing more nothing less , so get off your high horse and make a contribution thats worthwhile , as for the Snapper , the only embarressing thing is your attempt to have people believe you're in the know , Now THAT is embarresing...Why people ruin a perfectly good thread is beyond me ..Though both Snapper and Dj seem to relish it...

The contents of this post have been hidden for this blocked user. [Manage blocked users] M A Y B E THE WAY TO GO

I'm beginning to think you're right Catch ...

ABOUT TIME FFS

"Tribal Pa" dj is answering the op in a civil manner to the question of whether AP is as good as he is in the UK,your view in regards he couldn,t do anything with Heck Thomas i,d agree with,never would have won but some merit that he could have been ridden better.
Not really worth making a big issue of this really.

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THIS IS THE WAY TO GO imho

Catch ..

He rode a stinker on Byerly Babe,Wether he'd have won or not isn't the point.

Certainly think McCoys style of riding suits England better....they go a lot quicker early on and often try and win their races a mile from home.....suits a forceful rider.
A bit more thinking involved over here.

Thanks lads ..

JR has it right.

Agree Neill , that was my point ,AP is a great jockey I just dont think he would be getting the same amount of rides here , a lot of our lads are really top class and would more than hold their own with him ...Plenty of rag and bone racing in the UK and tht seems to suit AP ...For someone who has been champion jockey for over 15 yrs on the trot , it begs the question , why doesn't he have more Gold Cups C/Hurdles G/Nationals ..

I think it is a kind way of saying that English jockeys as a group don't judge pace as well as they do here.

Ffs wonks you cannot just take 3 races as a marker. He cannot jump on any horse he likes. He never was Nicholls' stable jockey for example. And the guy is going for 20 titles in a row.

Boychild , he rode for one of the most successful stables in the history of racing in Pipes ..He was champion for years and Pipe would have allowed him ride in all the major races when he had no contender ,and that was a lot of the time  ..Of course he was tied up on many occasion , but there were years when he could have rode for other stables ...I'm not knocking him , just stating that maybe his best years are behind him , and young Walsh is more than capable of doing a job for JP here ...

Pipe was not renowned for his class animals wonks, certainly not in the early years. Never had many top class chasers capable of winning a Gold Cup. And the national is a 40 runner joke race now, who ANYONE can win.

You are not reading what I have ALREADY said ,plese reread my reply of 22.19 ..Where I CLEARLY state , Pipe would have allowed him ride in all the major races when he had no contender ,  AND THAT WAS A LOT OF THE TIME....

Hate to agree with Wonks but McCoy is an embarrassment when riding in Ireland! Have stated so on many threads. He looks like Danny Mullins when going over Jumps. Even when he wins such as the mare for Mullins in Fairyhouse a few weeks ago they wasn't much fluency in jumping.

Not as simple as that wonks. Very hard to win these races. McCoy has won them all at least once. From memory, he was rarely on a very fancied, short one.

Boychild , lets just agree to differ shall we ..

I still haven't got over the fact that he never looked remotely like getting MTOY to settle. Had 8's for the Champion and thought to myself on the day that surely to fck they'd have thought him something. McCoy did absolutely nothing for that horse, should have been an all-time great and now he is injured....

taught*

Your arguement holds no water wonky so you toddle off.

hes good on bad horse and bad on good horses

Fair point kavvie. He should retire end of April after title number 20. He is in his 40's......

It's a cliche Kavvie. but it is one I would nearly agree with. I think a lot of the time in England, given that the jockeys often go off too quick, the latter few furlongs of a race are run slower and thus there is more time for him to make decisions, also in a slog, his strength comes to the fore as does his ability to get horses from one side of an obstacle to another. If every horse is stocious, fluency over the last couple ain't a prerequisite.

I'd prefer to be ridden by Ruby. I like a man with finesse, who cajoles and works you into a nice rhythm.   No need for brutality imo.

slick hes the greatest dedicated jockey ever lived.but he has got caught out a lot of times in big races  inches mean a lot..binocular.  my tent or yours.jezki to name  but 3   i could go on..

Big test next Sunday...Gladiator King, Gilgamboa, Golden Ticket, Jezki, Flaming Dawn.

No bet in it but that was one powerful ride by AP at Doncaster to mug Ruby on the line.

CRACKING RIDE FROM BOTH JOCKS  JEEZ AP SEEMED PLEASED MUG RUBY ON  LINE

TOP JOCK  w.r...

Townend to fox the top two here

Another top flop from AP today , shocking ride on Jezki ,pulling double with 3 to run , 2 to run still pulling double , Hurricane in trouble behind , kick on tony , kick on ffs ..Holds on to him still turning in , instead of kicking on and gaining 3 lenghts ..He should have put Hurricane to the sword between the last 2 ..JP will be changing his mind about him soon imo...

McCoy will decide himself when he finishes, cannot see under any circumstances McManus dictating to him.

Neill he was Shocking today , and I have no axe to grind with the man , why JP takes Walsh off his good runners is beyond a joke ,I backed him in the first and he went from cantering at the last to been all out to get a d/heat ... His habit of letting his mounts jump across hos opponents at the last nearly caused him to lose that race . I for one would not have been surprised if he had been thrown out..Gilgamboa is another he didn't suit ,shortening him up at a lot of his fences instead of letting him go at them ..For me anyway  , the difference in his riding here compered to the Uk is massive ...

it ain't McManus's for I don't think workrider.

McManus' form*

Thought the exact same as yourself W/R about him not kicking on with Jezki initially,looking at it a few times after was surprised at how little he had left when challenged,kind of give him the benefit of doubt for that, really should have won the 1st race comfortably enough.

Neill of course it ain't his form but he will be scratching his head wondering how he lost that today ,Gilgamboa also got a harder race the it should from the champ ,Pa if he had kicked earlier there is no way they would have caught him , remember he was head to head at the last before that terrible blunder , fact is he stays , having won at Fairyhouse over 2.4fur I think it was ...By letting Hurricane get a sighter on him when he should have had a 3 to 4 lenghts lead turning in ..That was the deciding factor ,once it turned into a fight there was always only going to be one winner...

I would be astonished if JP were to ever sack McCoy Workrider. The man transcends Jump Racing in the UK and will choose his own time to step aside. I'd imagine 99% of the forum would agre.

The question of whether AP is the best man for the job ie(could McManus get a better jockey) is another one. I'd say he probably could but given the incumbents age and standing it is nearly immaterial.

Pa pm you there...

He may not be a good as his Rhinestone cowboy days W/R but still very good,I would like to think that he will know when when to hang up his whip before J.P.and others go elsewhere.

That would be sad Frank ,as I've said already ,no axe to grind with AP ,just the cracks are showing and have been for a while now...

Sry w/r wrong song make that Wichita Lineman, worth another look on you tube

Yes a fantastic ride Frank , yesterdays man now though ,I think they just might compromise and part on the best of terms ...

Maybe I'm misreading your earlier post work rider but are you saying that if McCoy had kicked on on Jezki that he would have won?

I think that McCoy sensed Fly was in trouble and actually lit up Jezki too early.

Yes Tolmi , by hanging on to him he gave Ruby the chance to get back into it ,if you stopped the video before the 2nd last AP was sitting pretty , Ruby rowing along , yes Hurricane always has a tough patch in his races , without a shadow AP should have kicked...

I couldn't agree with that.He was holding on to nothing in my opinion.What I thought was very disappointing was that when he was joined and McCoy pressed the button he couldn't even stay with a horse who had been off the bridle for 3 furlongs.I think if he kicked earler off that gallop he would have fallen in a hole altogether.

Think certain jockeys get the best out of certain horses and at this level it can make a huge difference, as a punter always like having AP on my side but it's clear to anybody that Barry G gets the best out of the horse, JP is too loyal to make a change but Jessica and Frank Berry should be having a word

McCoy just doesn't seem to tune into Jezki at all. Maybe the horse just isn't good enough but i would like to see either Mark Walsh or Barry Geraghty on board and see would it make a difference. I think it would.
The big plus with Gilgamboa over fences so far has been his accurate jumping. McCoy up today- jumping goes to pieces.
My take on McCoy is he is at his best on a horse that needs to be bullied. He doesn't do subtlety. He likes to be the master.

Tolmi , its a game of opinions thank God , and mine was AP should have kicked , look back over it again and you'll see that Jezki was coming back at the winner at the last ,not saying he would have won btw .. Hardly a sign of a horse that had nothing left ...

Arctic fire beat him 4l, I wouldn't say there was much there and connections will be disappointed. Ran too free in the middle part of the race for me. Contrast with how Geraghty got him to use himself properly in the Champion and McCoy couldn't get MTOY to settle. Top 2mile hurdlers are nearly Flat horses and want to get on with it. all about managing their energy and McCoy is poor at this. Better with lazy horses.

Don't believe Jezki was coming back to Hurricane Fly,quite the opposite. I think Hurricane would have won by about 2 lengths if Jezki had jumped the last.

Santry , have a look again and come back to me ,he was a half length down 50 yds before the last , a neck down Jumping the last , were he made a shuddering mistake and nearly got rid of AP ..If he had kick between the last 2 he would have won ,no doubt...

WR. We wont agree on this one. I feel Hurricane Fly had his measure and was asserting. Indeed ,if you look at the race at Christmas its almost a carbon copy and Jezki got the better jump and still was reeled in.

I take it you mean no doubt in your mind work rider.I would be amazed if more than one in 10 agree with you and I also don't agree that he was coming back at him at the last.

Just had another look Tolmi ,and am more convinced now that he was coming back at him , to say he won have won is another matter ,if you go to the attheraces site and look at the picture they show , i .e. the freeze frame at the last ,they are both nearly landing together over it...

I looked at it twice earlier but I'll look at it again.Take off and landing positions are always deceptive as they very much depend on the stride pattern of the horse going into the jump.

Jezki was dissapointing today and has been all season..... It didn't matter what McCoy did with him today....he had the race in the bag but wasn't able to seal it.....he was headed going to the last and was not coming back either..... The only person who thought he got a bad ride and that he was rallying .....was the umpa lunpa from Tallaght......and what a grade A idiot he is....

Pikey , keep your mouth taped ,the only thing that emits from it is shyte ,Youghal knacker , when Dodgy retires you'll be pennyless ...

Shut up ya scrounging gombeen....

Now now Pikey ,calm down ,we dont want you back in the big house talking to your alter ego ,Robo...

Gilgamboa did not jump as well yesterday, but the obvious excuse for that is he was being asked to race at a pace far faster than in either of his previous chases. As Ruby said, he was shocked something was so close to him for so long yesterday. Shows that he didn't expect even them good horses to go that gallop, and Gilgamboa's jumping suffered as a result.

He will surely learn plenty from it, and it could be the winning of the JLT for him. Though that is shaping up to be the race of the festival, and I am still a huge Vautour fan. The memory of what he done to a good field in last years Supreme is hard to shift. Gilgamboa will certainly benefit from the step up in trip, and even though it will be quicker ground than yesterday, they will be going a stride slower.

As for the ride on Jezki, whatever AP does on him he seems to get slated. My view is no matter what they do on him, he ain't going to beat HF around Leop. He was beaten when he made the mistake. He has one run which suggests he is a real top notcher, and that run can be picked apart quite easily. Every other run suggests he is a shade shy of a real top grader.

Nice post CALLIT.

Lots of ruby fans on here,I reckon McCoy is better on the average horses,ruby has messed a right few up also imo

I agree with the gilgamboa part callit, but to say McCoy can't win no matter what were jezki is concerned is for a reason?..the man cannot ride the horse?..i said it after the 2 disgusting rides last season..today was less so imo..but  if geraghty had been on jezki the result would of been closer if not different, I will make a statement.. imo McCoy is half the jockey he was 2 yrs ago?..age catches up with us all..but it may just be that this one horse is just not suited to him?..but to also say jezki is not top class callit..im sorry I disagree.

Ah, he is Grade One performer alright Tony, but by a shade short I mean I don't think he is a real top notcher. What Faugheen looks like, what Istabraq was, what Moscow was, Florida Pearl....this type. I'm not entertaining Punch last year, because HF is not a real top notcher himself on good ground.

So, apart from last years CH, when has Jezki beaten a real Grade One horse?? Never.

So to my mind, it's a lot easier question that one run, than all the others? And it's easy question. He reversed Supreme form with MTOY, who pulled like f**k, and prob wouldn't be seen in the best light around Chelt. TNO was nearly brought down, and jumped very poorly and slowly in the main after that. HF proved again he is not top notch on faster ground. So what did he really beat there? Not much.

He is not in the Istabaraq, Moscow Flyer, Alderbrook, Harchibald, Brave Inca, Hardy Eustace class if you ask me. Very good, but not quite a real top notch Grade One horse. More Macs Joy than Brave Inca, more Theatreworld than Istabraq. He will never dominate the 2m hurdling scene, because he isn't good enough to.

Maybe BJG would be the difference, and maybe that's where the apparent improvement came last March....I just don't think there was as much improvement as people think, and that the ante post market suggests there will be this time.

I think Jezki is clearly a spring horse and that's the reason why the ante-post markets don't have him bigger (as well as the obvious importance of c+d form).

He has shown very decent form for the last two seasons at Cheltenham and Punchestown. He beat HF on the snaff at Punchestown last year and was very impressive at Punchestown in his novice season also (pulverising moderate opposition).

I don't think anyone is too surprised about his performances in the winter and he will be primed to run for his life again at the festival but it's very possible that Faugheen is just on another level (still has to be tested at jumping at championship speed over 2 miles though).

Any talk of JP dropping him are laughable (but he would have no bother putting less high profile acquaintances for the high jump) as he is practically part of the family.
If it's tight up the hill at the festival AP will be riding like a man possessed inspired by the criticism. Race appears to lack strength in depth this year and looks as close as you could get to a free bet each way.

Its a game about opinions as we all know.....but I think callitascuit has more or less nailed it as regards the ability of Jezki......last years champion hurdle couldn't have unfolded any better for him......Danny Mullins floored Our Conor.....that other half wit Twiston Davies was tracking the wrong horse and was badly hampered.....and My Tent Or Yours just missed the last and that cost him the race.....all in all Jezki was more than a little lucky....
If he repeats his effort from last year.....and theres no reason to suggest he has improved.....well then he will not win.....
Hard to guage how good Faugheen is.....but connections obviously believe he's in a different parish to Hurricane Fly.....and I've no doubt The New One will definitely beat Jezki.....
Callitascuit has him to a tee....quite obviously hes a very good horse ....but hes miles away from being one of the great champion hurdlers.....

I think your fair callit, I see were your coming from..dj and paulie also make fair points..a spring horse is a great point?..i think he is a spring horse..but no doubt in my mind McCoy just does not suit this horse..wether hes good enough for this ch I don't know..the fly and faugheen my just be too good?..but Cheltenham may bring the improvement ..and punchestown ..just like to say great 3 posts from the guys above..no badness just good honest opinions...

He'll be sent novice chasing next season as thats what he is,A chaser,
Next seasons Lexus winner.

Catch Me ifyoucan  • January 18, 2015 2:57 PM GMT 
ABOUT TIME FFS

MOST WILL BE SHELL SHOCKED at this news.........just after riding his 200th WINNER for the 10th TIME in his LOOOOOOOOONG career

STILL IN SHOCK TO BE HONEST as McCoy revealed his retirement plan.

"It's going to be the last time I ride 200 winners," he said.
"Having spoken to Dave (Roberts, agent) and JP McManus, I am going to be retiring at the end of the season."

McCoy said: "I want to go out at top, I want to go out as champion jockey and it will be my 20th year if I can win the jockeys' championship.
"I want to go out while I still enjoy riding and am still relatively at the top."

His wife Chanelle said: "It's a decision he's battled with very much, some days he's at peace with it and some days he's sad. It will be great for him to go out on a high and hopefully we will get him out in one piece."
She went on: "It's a very big decision and a decision like that he has to live with, so he has to make it himself.
"He knew my preference for him to retire at the end of the season, but I never pushed him. He's very much his own man and he makes up his own mind."

Richard Johnson has long had to play second-fiddle to McCoy in the jockeys' championship, and he said: "It wasn't the biggest shock in the world I suppose, but it's more set in concrete now.
"There'll be a few people relieved and will have a few more chances, but it's a great loss to lose him from the weighing room.
"We all know we'll get to that point sometime. It will be an even bigger shock after Sandown (end of the season) I suppose, but I'm sure we'll still see him around the racecourse and his achievements will live on for a long time."

Champion trainer Paul Nicholls was among others to salute McCoy.
Nicholls said: "It's a pleasure to have had anything to do with him and it was a peach of a ride he gave Mr Mole."
He added: "He's been a great ambassador for the sport and no one can say enough about him.
"It doesn't surprise me totally as one day you have to make a decision. He's probably decided that's the right one, and everyone knows where they are.
Everyone will miss him riding as he's been such a legend, but you can't go on forever.
"He's still riding as well as he's ever ridden and it's probably the right time to go out.

"Toby Balding once told me to use him as claimer, that he was the best he ever had. I always remember those words. We didn't have enough horses to keep him at the time and he went and rode all those winners for Martin Pipe. He's just been fantastic.
"He's a great guy to deal with and a brilliant jockey."

McCoy's next ride after Mr Mole ended in a fall at the first from Goodwood Mirage, after which he walked away unscathed.
He will always be associated with former champion trainer Martin Pipe, with the pair teaming up for many famous days.
Pipe said: "What a shock. I just said to him 'about time!'.
"He's been an absolute legend for racing, he'll never be surpassed in anyone's lifetime. He's the best we've ever seen.
"His dedication to winning, it's what it's all about. He's just so thorough and so competitive.
"We had a great time together, there's so many great moments - Unsinkable Boxer and all the winners he's ridden."

McCoy's great rival Ruby Walsh paid immediate tribute to his close friend.
He said: "The biggest decisions are the hardest decisions, and AP is the biggest man who had to do it.
"It is wonderful that you could have the career AP has had, but it was a big call and only he could have known that the time was right.
"He is the consummate professional and has done everything that is good for racing.
"It will be a strange old place without him being part of it."

Trainer Philip Hobbs said: "Very few jockeys ride 20 seasons, let alone win the championship 20 times. It's been great having him around, but it will be a big loss to racing when he goes."

Dominant Irish trainer Willie Mullins told At The Races: "We might have been expecting this the last three years, I'm shocked it hasn't happened until now, really.
"He's an iron man and obviously enjoys it and I'm happy for him that he has retired on his own terms.
"He can get on with enjoying the rest of the season."
McCoy rides for Mullins at Leopardstown on Sunday when he partners Cheltenham gamble Alvisio Ville in the Deloitte Novice Hurdle, and he added: "He's looks a real better than average horse."

...Be Honest would AP get as many rides .....

workrider
workrider 18 Jan 15 13:32 Joined: 29 Jun 02 | Topic/replies: 19,785 | Blogger: workrider's blog
Riding here on a regular basis ,I doubt it tbh ,showed his inexperience of Irish racing by trying to go up Rubys inside there ..England is much easier to ride huge volumes of winners than here imo ..Not taking anything away from AP and his brilliant achivements either ...

Had to laugh my arse off at this post. Irish racing where it's 1-4 shots every Saturday and they just trot about? Ask yourself why AP, Geraghty and Walsh (before he got the ultimate dream job) chose to ride in England.